Low cost Flash Hucard

gameofyou · 03/13/2012, 09:34 PM

Hello,

I have been thinking of making a low-cost Hucard with flash memory. I know there are some expensive (> $100) options for flash cards that hold multiple games. What I am thinking about making would be a simple 8Mbit flash Hucard, which could be used for game development or downloading a commercial game.

I did a search and saw an older topic of someone that was going to build something similar to this. Did it ever happen?

I will probably build one of these for myself, anyway. I just wondered if there was any interest, because if so, I would build a batch of them.

So I'm talking about an 8Mbit, flash-based Hucard, with a USB connector for loading a game. It would be as simple and low-cost as possible (but high quality). For price, I'm thinking around the $30 range. If someone wanted to sell a homebrew on Hucard, you could solder down a pre-programmed flash memory and leave the rest of the circuitry off, and it would bring the price down to $20 or so.

Here are some of the other projects I've done previously:
http://www.gamingenterprisesinc.com/

I just recently bought my PC Engine & a stack of Hucards, and am having a blast with it!

http://www.gamingenterprisesinc.com/Flash_HuCard/

Chuplayer · 03/13/2012, 09:47 PM

Sounds good. I'd be down for soldering the components myself, too. Like, if you sold it as an unassembled kit, not just for the selling of homebrews.

If possible, I'm sure people would like 20Mbit capability.

I guess some people are going to get a little antsy about TG16 vs. PCE circuit board types.

mrhaboobi · 03/13/2012, 09:51 PM

having just bought a flash card it's not like i *need* another

but always willing to support a homebrew project and the tools that help provide them

so yeah id be keen to see what comes of this.

gameofyou · 03/13/2012, 09:54 PM

Yeah, I forgot to add that. This would work with either PC-Engine or Turbo Grafx. It is basically just up to the PC software to download the game in the correct format.

_Paul · 03/18/2012, 06:23 PM

Sounds good, I'd be interested.

thesteve · 03/18/2012, 08:00 PM

i like it.
any design help you need let me know

TurboXray · 03/18/2012, 10:06 PM

Jerry DaSilva made a TurboRom board back in 2001. I got mine from Dave Shadoff. It takes either a dip or surface mount rom. Damn nice looking board too. Dave Shadoff had the pcb design file for it too (I forget what the format's called). I soldered a zif socket on mine.

gameofyou · 03/19/2012, 12:28 PM

I am definately planning on making this flash card. Since I am doing it in my spare time, I don't know what the time frame will be. But I will be sure to post pictures when I get any prototype work done.

I will also be sure to ask here, if I need any further design information. Thanks!

grahf · 03/20/2012, 12:02 AM

I've been wanting to make myself one for a while not, but it's definitely more cost effective to make them in semi-bulk. I'd definitely be interested in one of yours.

gameofyou · 03/20/2012, 05:44 PM

Ok, I have looked into the HuCard interface. If anyone here is knowledgable about the HuCard pinout, I would really appreciate if you could take a look at what I have, for a sanity check. I am using a MX29F800C flash chip (cheap & available at Digikey). You can see the datasheet here:
http://www.gamingenterprisesinc.com/temp/MX29F800C.pdf

And here is the circuit schematic for the HuCard/Flash interface:
http://www.gamingenterprisesinc.com/temp/HuCard_Schematic_V01.pdf

I will work on the USB/PC interface portion of the schematic design next.

thesteve · 03/20/2012, 09:15 PM

that looks right.
build a prototype first to test it

burn_654 · 03/21/2012, 12:51 AM

Definitely looking forward to this project!

You can count me in for buying one when they're done.

Aladar · 03/21/2012, 05:08 AM

I'm interested, but I have some questions:
Can you add a reset button?
Will it be a generic HID device?
Will the source code be released? Or at least enough information to write a driver and the transfer software?

gameofyou · 03/21/2012, 05:55 PM

Quote from: Aladar on 03/21/2012, 05:08 AMI'm interested, but I have some questions:
Can you add a reset button?
Will it be a generic HID device?
Will the source code be released? Or at least enough information to write a driver and the transfer software?

If I have space, I can add a placeholder on the pcb for a reset button. Then I can always decide later whether I want to populate it.

I am still working on the design, but it will use an FTDI usb chip. So, you will be able to get drivers for almost any OS right from FTDI's webpage. I will document the transfer software well, so that anyone can write their own if they want. I will make the interface as simple as possible. The initial software will run on Windows (since that's what I have).

Mortis · 03/25/2012, 11:13 AM

Will definitely take part in the batch if you get this done!

gameofyou · 03/27/2012, 09:20 PM

I have a small status update. I completed the schematic design. I just have to go through and double check everything. I am trying to be as careful as possible, so that I can get as much correct as possible on the first revision. Making prototype PCBs can get expensive, so I would like to make as few as possible.

I have also created all of the component footprints (see photo below). Most of the parts are only used to re-program the flash memory. If a pre-programmed flash was soldered to the board, that is the only part that would be required (& a couple capacitors).

And here is a closeup of the PCB outline. Basically, all of the components have to go to the right of the green vertical line. And they can only go on the top side. Hopefully, there is enough room. If not, I will have to add a notch in the PCB, and extend it longer than an original HuCard.

After doing the placement and routing the traces, then I will have to write all the software.

thesteve · 03/27/2012, 09:30 PM

i recommend making a dummy card (possibly from a dead huey) to test/prototype with.
that eliminates the need to have proto cards built.
the dummy cart could just be a card with a ribbon cable attached, allowing you to breadboard the circuit under test.
also using SMD adapters for prototyping has proven quite effective

grahf · 03/29/2012, 10:37 PM

Excellent work so far. It would be a real shame not to fit it on a standard sized HUcard. From the looks of your component sizes though, I'm optimistic

You've got the right idea on those SMD adapters, thesteve. Breadboards are awesome.

gameofyou · 04/05/2012, 05:29 PM

Good news, I was able to fit all of the components onto a standard HuCard sized board. I was also able to route the board using two layers. J3 is not a populated part (only briefly held down to program the microcontroller) so I was able to place its footprint on the other side of the green dividing line. Here are the photos.

All layers:

Top layer only:

Bottom layer only:

It is a good idea to do the prototyping work with a dead HuCard, but after reviewing the schematics I really don't see a lot of items with high risk. Also, I need to test the pcb routing, footprints, spacings and mechanical dimensions anyway, so I think I am just going to go for it & build a pcb.

mrhaboobi · 04/05/2012, 06:32 PM

Very cool, way out of my league when it comes to electronics, most impressive, look forward to seeing your results

thesteve · 04/05/2012, 06:46 PM

im not saying not to build it
just a system test could save you a rebild

RetroRepair · 04/06/2012, 11:39 AM

Totally up for this when you get them done, looks really nice!

henrycsc · 04/06/2012, 06:29 PM

Yep, I'm game for one of these too. Hucard forever!

Still amazed by what all of you guys continue to come up with!

grahf · 04/06/2012, 10:55 PM

Looks like you did a nice job on the routing. I'm really looking forward to this. It just might get me to finally fooling around with some PCE programming.

Chuplayer · 04/11/2012, 05:22 PM

Freakin' sweet, man.

gameofyou · 04/15/2012, 07:01 PM

A small update:
I have been working on both the firmware (that executes on the circuit board) and the PC software (which will be used for downloading the games). They are both coming along pretty well.

I will get my prototype pcbs on Monday (supposedly). They are very low-cost protos (no solder mask or silkscreen or beveled edge). I will try to upload a picture Monday if I get time. Once I get the protos working, I will order some full-spec pcbs.

One challenge will be assembling these boards. The parts were only available in surface mount packages and the pitch of the pins is quite small (0.5mm), on some of the parts. I will have to crank up my soldering skills a notch for this board. lol.

One other thing I am debating is whether to get gold flashing on the connector pins. It looks like it may add significant cost to the pcbs to do this ($5 or more). From what I know now, I believe that I could set the price for the assembled boards at $40 (plus shipping), without the gold flashing. That's not too far from my original goal of $35.

One last thing is that when the time comes, I may want one of you to be a test user for this flash HuCard. Preferably someone with a Turbografx-16 (since I have only a PC-Engine). If anyone would be interested in this, just shoot me an email (from my GamingEnterprisesInc site). I'm probably still a month or so away from being at that stage, though.

burn_654 · 04/15/2012, 07:31 PM

Glad to hear that things are going smoothly

I have a PC-Engine Duo, but I've installed the region switch mod. I don't know if that's helpful to you or not...
Regardless, looking forward to ordering one of these bad boys when they're available.

grahf · 04/16/2012, 07:55 AM

Sounds great. I'd love to be a tester, but I don't have a TG16. There are a few guys on this forum with electronics knowledge AND a TG16 (BlueBMW? thesteve?), so they'd be better suited to help you test.

Personally, I'd say the gold plating is worth the $5. These boards will probably see a lot more insertion/removal than your average HuCard, so longevity on the contacts is definitely worth it. Of course cheaper is better, but I think the price is probably already cheaper than what some people were expecting. Just my opinion.

Looking forward to more updates! Really excited about this.

soop · 04/16/2012, 08:00 AM

Quote from: grahf on 04/16/2012, 07:55 AMSounds great. I'd love to be a tester, but I don't have a TG16. There are a few guys on this forum with electronics knowledge AND a TG16 (BlueBMW? thesteve?), so they'd be better suited to help you test.

Hear hear. Plus, if something IS wrong, they'll have more insight into what the problem is rather than "it doesn't work

"

thesteve · 04/16/2012, 12:07 PM

id love to test a proto board.
id even test it on several systems

gameofyou · 04/16/2012, 12:27 PM

Quote from: soop on 04/16/2012, 08:00 AMHear hear. Plus, if something IS wrong, they'll have more insight into what the problem is rather than "it doesn't work "

lol. Good point!

gameofyou · 04/16/2012, 12:28 PM

Quote from: thesteve on 04/16/2012, 12:07 PMid love to test a proto board.
id even test it on several systems

That would be great! I'll contact you when I'm ready.

lwizardl · 04/16/2012, 08:00 PM

currently have 2 american tg16 systems, and hopefully a duo on the way that i could use for testing.

gameofyou · 04/17/2012, 08:32 PM

Here's a photo of the bare low-cost prototype circuit board:

spenoza · 04/17/2012, 09:54 PM

I do hope you're gonna round off those corners just a hair on the production model ; )

thesteve · 04/17/2012, 10:05 PM

lookin sharp

Mishran · 04/17/2012, 10:58 PM

Your knocking this project out rather quick. Looks good. Can't wait to see the finished product.

grahf · 04/18/2012, 07:32 AM

Awesome! Have fun soldering those components

I know you said you haven't yet started on the flash code. I'd be interested in porting it to Linux, if you don't already plan to do that.

gameofyou · 04/20/2012, 08:11 AM

Quote from: guest on 04/17/2012, 09:54 PMI do hope you're gonna round off those corners just a hair on the production model ; )

This is just a low-cost proto made for test/debug purposes. When I order the final board design, it will have a green soldermask layer, white silkscreen layer, beveled edge along the connector contacts, and (depending on price) gold flash on the connector contacts.

gameofyou · 04/20/2012, 08:14 AM

Quote from: Mishran on 04/17/2012, 10:58 PMYour knocking this project out rather quick. Looks good. Can't wait to see the finished product.

Thanks, I have been spending a LOT of time on it. I have a window of opportunity to get it done, before I have other obligations on my time.

gameofyou · 04/20/2012, 08:20 AM

Quote from: grahf on 04/18/2012, 07:32 AMAwesome! Have fun soldering those components
I know you said you haven't yet started on the flash code. I'd be interested in porting it to Linux, if you don't already plan to do that.

I bought some magnifiers to help with the soldering, but this 0.5mm pitch stuff is going to take some practice. It is definately the smallest stuff I have ever soldered (by far). They don't make these parts in different packages, though, and paying to have them assembled would really jack up the price.

As far as the software, I have both PC software and microcontroller code written. They just have to be tested/debugged. If you want to do a Linux port, that will be great. I plan on posting all the info required, after the project is complete.

thesteve · 04/20/2012, 10:12 AM

trick for soldering the small stuff is small tip and flood it with flux

soop · 04/20/2012, 10:20 AM

Hmm. I have an idea, which may be stupid, but I'll say it anyway.

What if... the card gets tested, and everyone signs up for their cards. And everyone pays. But to share the workload, the people on the forum who are good at soldering could recieve around 5 bare cards and parts, solder them up, and send them on to other people in their area? As a consequence, the people who recieve these cards would pay a small fee to the solderer, meaning the solderer would end up getting a reduced/free card?

Like I say it may be ridiculous, but considering the interest these things are generating, I don't see GameofYou having time to solder together 100s of these things. And I suck at soldering, so I would gladly pay someone to solder mine (if I get one).

OldMan · 04/20/2012, 11:07 AM

Quotethis 0.5mm pitch stuff is going to take some practice.

Quote...the people on the forum who are good at soldering could recieve around 5 bare cards and parts, solder them up, and send them on to other people in their area?

Quotetrick for soldering the small stuff is small tip and flood it with flux

You have to be really, really good at soldering to do the tsop stuff. And have a really good tip on the iron.
Which limits it to probably a half-dozen people here.

Might I suggest a toaster-oven? (Don't laugh, Google it.)

soop · 04/20/2012, 11:46 AM

I did, and it was interesting (and well written): http://store.curiousinventor.com/guides/Surface_Mount_Soldering/Solder_Paste_and_Toaster_Oven/

Nando · 04/20/2012, 03:52 PM

what a project! wow!

gameofyou · 04/20/2012, 09:40 PM

Quote from: soop on 04/20/2012, 10:20 AMHmm. I have an idea, which may be stupid, but I'll say it anyway.

What if... the card gets tested, and everyone signs up for their cards. And everyone pays. But to share the workload, the people on the forum who are good at soldering could recieve around 5 bare cards and parts, solder them up, and send them on to other people in their area? As a consequence, the people who recieve these cards would pay a small fee to the solderer, meaning the solderer would end up getting a reduced/free card?

Like I say it may be ridiculous, but considering the interest these things are generating, I don't see GameofYou having time to solder together 100s of these things. And I suck at soldering, so I would gladly pay someone to solder mine (if I get one).

lol. I think 100 is a little optimistic, but who knows? Over time maybe that many people will want them.

Right now my plan is to offer two options. One option will be to buy a fully assembled (and tested) HuCard. The second option will be to buy a bare pcb only (no parts soldered down). I will also supply a Bill Of Materials, and all the parts are common enough to be available at vendors like Digi-Key. This way if other people want to build some up for others, they can.

gameofyou · 04/20/2012, 09:47 PM

Quote from: TheOldMan on 04/20/2012, 11:07 AMMight I suggest a toaster-oven? (Don't laugh, Google it.)

Ha, that's a good idea. I'm actually getting the hang of it though, with an iron. I think each board will get faster as my skill improves.

gameofyou · 04/20/2012, 09:56 PM

Ok, I have the first prototype assembled:

And good news, I have successfully gotten the USB communications working (after fixing a couple dumb software mistakes). It won't be long now, before I can insert it into my PC-Engine...

spenoza · 04/20/2012, 10:45 PM

I hate to say this, in part because I'm perpetually low on funds, but I'm itching to shell out for one of these.