Just got into the Wonderswan/Colour and wanna talk about it

[Michirin9801]

I'll assume you already know what a Wonderswan is and what it looks like, if not just look it up...

You know, what first attracted me to the Wonderswan was its sound, it's basically the same kind of sound as the PC engine's PSG, except with only 4 channels instead of 6 and the waveforms are only 4 bit as opposed to 5 bit, but it still sounds fairly close, and I'm just glad to be able to play more 16 bit games that I hadn't played before with a similar sound to the PCE!

The first game I've played on the system was Guilty Gear Petit 2, which if you know me wouldn't be surprising at all, and oh my gosh what a start! My first impression was: "I should have tried this sooner!"
Needless to say I loved it! The controls are very responsive, it's really easy to combo in this game, but it's still fairly challenging, and the CPU will catch on if you spam the same move over and over and act accordingly! I've managed to beat it a few times and I'll definitely be playing this again and again!
The only problems I've had with this game are that the music isn't great, but it's passable, and the backgrounds are kind of ugly with an excessive use of dithering... The sprites are pretty nice though, I think they could be better-animated, but they're pretty cute!
This is an uncommonly good handheld fighter, very much worth playing if you're a fan of the genre!

After that I've played the first Guilty Gear Petit, and let's just say that it's basically the same game as the second, but worse in almost every way, it's not bad at all, but the sound effects are weaker, the controls are stiffer, it's harder to combo, but it's somehow a much easier game than the second because the CPU AI isn't as good... I'll give it this though, the backgrounds in this version are better than in the 2nd game! They've used dithering more sparingly so it looks much cleaner and more pleasing to the eyes, it's still there but its use makes much more sense now... Just stick with the 2nd game...

The next game I tried was Gunpey EX, which is the colour variant of the most famous game on the system, and you know, I'm not a big fan of puzzle games, but this one is pretty fun and very addictive! The concept is so simple, you just have to connect the two sides of the screen with lines by swapping tiles around, but the tiles move up and you have to keep them from reaching the top of the screen, you get extra points by connecting the two sides with multiple lines, this is one of the games that you have to play with the system in portrait mode, nice music too, even if it's all just pulse waves...

I'll try to keep the next few impressions brief for the sake of not bloating this post too much:

Pocket Fighter: Another quality fighter on the system! Shame it's not in colour... This is also one of the better-sounding games on the system, very nice music! (Even if it often relies on square waves) Loved it!

Rainbow Islands: It's played in Portrait mode, and it's not in colour (kind of ironic considering the title)
It's basically what you'd expect gameplay-wise, except you play as an anime girl instead of Eric Cartman, and there's a lot of dialogue that I can't read in between stages... Not bad! But they could have used more waveforms than just Square waves...

Makaimura: It's not a straight port of Ghosts and Goblins, it's its own original game in the series, and it's pretty good! It's only in black and white though, and the music could be better... It has parallax scrolling though! Did I mention the system has 2 BG layers? Yeah, but they often used the 2nd layer for the HUD so you still don't see parallax very often...

Rockman & Forte: Again, not a straight port of the SNES game, it's another original game in the series, and it's fine I guess... I'll certainly pick it over the NES games but I don't see myself returning to this one anytime soon... If you like Megaman though, you might like this one! B&W only, and it has parallax as well...

Star Hearts: A beautiful-looking and very nice-sounding Zelda clone where you control a native-american-looking boy or girl, there's a little too much dialogue for my liking, but I could still find my way to the first dungeon even without reading any of it... I wish the screen scrolled though, yeah it's flip-screen kinda like Zelda 1 and Neutopia, but it's still pretty good!

Mr. Driller: This was my introduction to the series, it's pretty nice! You just drill downwards as much as you can while trying not to run out of air or get crushed by falling blocks...

One Piece Grand Battle Swan Colosseum: It's an one-on-one platforming fighting game with VERY smooth animations! Very well-done graphics, don't remember the sound very well... It's fun enough, I'd rather it be a traditional fighting game, but it's not bad at all...

Beat Mania: No, I'm not kidding, they've ported this to the WonderSwan, and it's actually really damn impressive! They're playing relatively high quality PCM audio on the WonderSwan, and it sounds good! This is another one that's played in portrait mode, B&W only, I sucked at it, but yeah, it's a thing that exists, and I like it!

Final Lap Special: Impressive graphics, amusing for 2 minutes... If you like Final Lap Twin you might get a kick out of this, I don't think there's an RPG mode though... No music during gameplay, what a bummer!

Golden Axe: Sucks... But then again, I've never liked Golden Axe so I might not be the best person to judge this one...

Final Fantasy IV: This is basically the closest we've got to Final Fantasy IV on the PCE, everything you'd expect from a PCE port of that game is in here, it's only in Japanese though so of course, I couldn't go very far, but the music is nice! (Not SNES nice, but then again, what is?)

CardCaptor Sakura: OMG THEY MADE A CHIPTUNE VERSION OF CATCH YOU CATCH ME~♥
Not just that song, a lot of the show's soundtrack was covered, which means I had an unhealthy amount of fangasms, eargasms and nostalgiagasms in quick succession... Can you blame me though? This was my childhood anime! I just LOOOOVE Sakura~♥
Anyway, the game is basically Galaxy Fraulein Yuna but with a (black and white) Cardcaptor Sakura coat of paint, in other words, a text/graphic adventure game with barely any meaningful interactions where you just play to see the characters that you loved from the show doing their thing, except you can't read anything if you don't know Japanese, and you're gonna win anyway because the closest thing to a fail-state is losing a battle, which I haven't yet... I still love it though, but for the same reason why I love the Yuna games, not because it's a good game, but because I get to see more of the characters I was already attached to, and hear awesome music while I'm at it~♥

I've played some more games, but none that are note-worthy as of the time I'm making this post... I'd post some videos with soundtracks as well but there's barely any Wonderswan soundtracks on YouTube...

Oh well, just check these videos if you wanna see the thing in action:

So yeah, I've only just had a couple of days with the WonderSwan, but I feel that I've just found my new favourite non-Nintendo handheld! Not like there was much competition anyways... (No, I'm not counting the Nomad and the TurboExpress, those are a different can of worms)
For the record, I've also played the Game Gear, the Neo Geo Pocket Colour and the PSP, and of those the PSP was far and away the best one, but you know, the Wonderswan has that 16 bit appeal that I love so much~

[SignOfZeta]

Man, that's a good selection of games. You kinda have most of the stuff.

Wonderswan is 32-bit, btw.

The One Piece game was basically a prototype for the Jump fighting games on DS which are great.

I like Magical Drop a lot. It's b/w but otherwise very impressive. The NGP version is in color but the res is so much lower and all the characters look like fan art.

I also like Final Fantasy 1. It uses the spell system from the NES ver rather than magic points like all the other ports. The graphics look like SFC in wide screen.

[Michirin9801]

Wonderswan is 32-bit, btw.

Is it? Oh well... It does have 4bpp graphics though, and again, similar sound to the PCE, so even if it isn't 16 bit, like the PCE itself isn't, it still has that '16 bit appeal', you know what I mean...

But yeah, I've yet to play its version of FF1, but I've seen it so I know what to expect, I've played a LOT of Magical Drop on the SNES so this version sounds appealing enough to me!

[ccovell]

I put my feelings about the WonderSwan near the end of a video I made that shows an educational portable that re-purposed the WS hardware:

[HuMan]

My story with the Wonderswan goes like this:

Buys FF2-themed WonderSwan Color and a plain B&W system with a random assortment of games, some RPGs, some anime games, Rockman & Forte, GunPey... Sold it all out of disinterest.

A year later, notices there's a WonderSwan flash cart, buys it along with a SwanCrystal, tries out the best games the WonderSwan has to offer, sells it all out of disinterest.

Out of all the WS stuff I've had pass through my hands, I've only kept a blue WonderSwan Color and a complete copy of GunPey which is my favorite game for it. I wouldn't mind having One Piece Swan Colosseum again though. I also have a really beat up B&W WS but who would want it if I sold it?

The recurring theme in my experience is despite the cool hardware, there's hardly anything worthwhile to play on the WonderSwan. The glut of anime games and RPGs have a high language barrier and the usual suspect games from Capcom, Namco, Taito, Koei etc are typically expensive and generally speaking aren't worth writing home about. The flash cart makes the truly best games like Judgement Silversword affordable to play, but hardly any of it really stuck with me as must-haves. The only great exclusives I enjoyed were GunPey and One Piece Swan Colosseum.

[Michirin9801]

Interesting, I'd never heard about these educational hardware variant things before...
You know, to be fair, I'm emulating the system, so I'm not having the most 'authentic' Wonderswan experience, but the games I have played on the system are pretty good for the most part! Shame the system itself doesn't seem to be of such high quality...

Although I kind of agree with the NGPC being kinda crap, I've played it quite a bit, and I found it to be rather underwhelming... The thing is that it's a supposed to be a "very capable" handheld for its time, and while it can put big sprites on-screen, and animate them pretty well, the graphics are pretty bleh for the most part, only 2bpp, most sprites are just black, white and a 3rd custom colour, so it generally doesn't look any better than what you can do on the GBC, even with its two BG layers, in fact, I've seen a few GBC games that look way better and are far more impressive than NGPC games, and the sound is weak, only square waves! It sounds like a Master System, the Game Boy sounds way better, and the Wonderswan even better than that! (Emulated at least)

Also

Wonderswan is 32-bit, btw.

I looked it up, it has a 16 bit NEC V30 MZ @ 3.072MHz ;3

[Michirin9801]

@HuMan I see... Well, thankfully I found some stuff on the system that I like, and my impressions are very positive thus far ;3

[Sarumaru]

I love the Wonderswan. I just wish it was backlit.

[Michirin9801]

I love the Wonderswan. I just wish it was backlit.

I know how it is... I also wish the original GBA model was... At least I got an SP AGS-101 ;3

[Gredler]

I also wish the original GBA model was... At least I got an SP AGS-101 ;3

The mod to put a light into the GBA original model is easish, I did it twice bitd and still have 2 after burners and 4 replacement screens for GBA. I love that system.

[CrackTiger]

Wonderswan Color is great with a nice balance of aesthetics that appeals to 16-bit fans. It's worth getting just to play the Final Fantasy games, particularly I & II.

[Michirin9801]

Wonderswan Color is great with a nice balance of aesthetics that appeals to 16-bit fans. It's worth getting just to play the Final Fantasy games, particularly I & II.

At least those two were fan-translated! I'd say it's worth it for more than just that though, see the original post...

[blueraven]

It was one of the first systems that the local place around me imported games for... And I think they lasted for maybe 3 months before the neo geo pocket color came out and everyone traded them in.

I honestly never got enough into the system to actually sit down and play it so this thread is all a learning experience for me. I was also about 11 and completely broke when it hit, and at about $50 per game that was almost impossible.

[Michirin9801]

It was one of the first systems that the local place around me imported games for... And I think they lasted for maybe 3 months before the neo geo pocket color came out and everyone traded them in.

People traded the Wonderswan in for the NGPC? Wow... I'd have done the opposite, but then again, I have hindsight (and emulation) in my favour >w>';

[SignOfZeta]

Interesting, I'd never heard about these educational hardware variant things before...
You know, to be fair, I'm emulating the system, so I'm not having the most 'authentic' Wonderswan experience, but the games I have played on the system are pretty good for the most part! Shame the system itself doesn't seem to be of such high quality...

Although I kind of agree with the NGPC being kinda crap, I've played it quite a bit, and I found it to be rather underwhelming... The thing is that it's a supposed to be a "very capable" handheld for its time, and while it can put big sprites on-screen, and animate them pretty well, the graphics are pretty bleh for the most part, only 2bpp, most sprites are just black, white and a 3rd custom colour, so it generally doesn't look any better than what you can do on the GBC, even with its two BG layers, in fact, I've seen a few GBC games that look way better and are far more impressive than NGPC games, and the sound is weak, only square waves! It sounds like a Master System, the Game Boy sounds way better, and the Wonderswan even better than that! (Emulated at least)

Also

Wonderswan is 32-bit, btw.

I looked it up, it has a 16 bit NEC V30 MZ @ 3.072MHz ;3

I guess I don't know where I got the impression otherwise...sorry.

But hey, did you just say the Neo Geo Pocket was "crap"? Are you suffering from a massive head injury or something? Doesn't look any better than the GBC?!? You're nuts. Nuts. If its 1999 and you're buying games for both systems every month the difference is like chocolate and shit. I loved the GBC, but comparing it to NGP is...like I said, nuts. Its like comparing Genesis to Neo Geo. A subtle difference if any to the novice but very obvious to the game literate.

[BigusSchmuck]

About the only thing I played on a Wonderswan were those Final Fantasy games and a Macross strategy game. I enjoyed the Macross games on the PCE much more.

[Michirin9801]

But hey, did you just say the Neo Geo Pocket was "crap"? Are you suffering from a massive head injury or something? Doesn't look any better than the GBC?!? You're nuts. Nuts. If its 1999 and you're buying games for both systems every month the difference is like chocolate and shit. I loved the GBC, but comparing it to NGP is...like I said, nuts. Its like comparing Genesis to Neo Geo. A subtle difference if any to the novice but very obvious to the game literate.

Find me an NGPC game that looks as good as this:

Or this:

And I'll eat my words... And then play it... (The GB will always sound better though)

[SignOfZeta]

FMV intros and line scrolling roads? Is that what have to beat? No problem.

I don't know how to embed Youtube videos here though...

[Michirin9801]

FMV intros and line scrolling roads? Is that what have to beat? No problem.

I don't know how to embed Youtube videos here though...

Just remove the S from "https"

And it's not just the FMV or the line-scrolling roads, check out just how many scanline interrupts we've got going on in Wacky Races! Basically, one for every scanline, so it can not only do an Amiga-style gradient in the background, but also do high-colour sprites in the character selection screen, smoothly transition between different road types, fade in and out sprites from view as if there was actually fog on the roads, and make highly-colourful and detailed backgrounds by being able to use every palette on it before they even bother to draw the road, also the smoothly scaling big sprites with little-to-no noticeable flickering that use a much more varied palette than the regular NGPC sprites...

And Cannon Fodder also has pre-rendered pre-stage screens that look real nice, and the game itself looks pretty good as well... I'd also throw in Donkey Kong Country which looks pretty good on GBC, but that game just isn't impressive enough, Lucky Luke on the other hand is:

^This one has parallax scrolling in spots, highly colourful sprites, and some pretty smooth animations as well!

[ccovell]

To be quite frank, both the NGPC and WSC may have had 16-bit CPUs and dual-layer playfields, but the low-bitplane graphics for both BGs and sprites in many games let the side down.  Music too.  Plus unimaginative game libraries and licensed dreck for the most part.  People rave about fighting games on the NGP, and for the WS.... er, Gunpey... but I never liked either and that was about it.  Libraries & systems were long ago sold off or given away as curios.

The only dedicated portable prior to the GBA that WOWed me was, of course, the Atari Lynx.

[Michirin9801]

To be quite frank, both the NGPC and WSC may have had 16-bit CPUs and dual-layer playfields, but the low-bitplane graphics for both BGs and sprites in many games let the side down.  Music too.  Plus unimaginative game libraries and licensed dreck for the most part.  People rave about fighting games on the NGP, and for the WS.... er, Gunpey... but I never liked either and that was about it.  Libraries & systems were long ago sold off or given away as curios.

The only dedicated portable prior to the GBA that WOWed me was, of course, the Atari Lynx.

While I don't think the NGPC is a bad handheld by any means, I think it's not quite as good as it could (or should) be... The fighting games are nice, I like them, but the bland graphics with almost monochrome sprites really drag it down to me... The 2nd BG layer is nice, but instead of wowing me whenever there is parallax, I just get more disappointed whenever there isn't, and there often isn't...
And again, the soundchip, why so weak? Why only square waves? Give me a more robust sound!

The Wonderswan on the other hand, while the unit itself may not be of the highest quality, and the library is small and filled with licensed games, it does have its fair share of quality games! And the fighting games there are on the system, few as they may be, far surpass the NGPC's offerings! Honestly, I think the Wonderswan is what the NGPC should have been, I mean, what good is a 16 bit CPU when your graphics are still only 2bpp and your sound isn't any better than the SMS?
Show a less-informed gamer a Game Gear and an NGPC and ask them "Which one do you think is 8 bit and which is 16 bit?" and chances are they'll say the Game Gear is the 16 bit one, because at least that one has the 4bpp graphics to back it up, even if the colour count is actually lower and it lacks a 2nd scrolling plane...

And the Wonderswan's sound is good! The speaker may not be, but the sound hardware itself is, and games like Pocket Fighter and Star Hearts really show off how much better the WS sounds than even the Game Boy!

Also, the Lynx is another one that I haven't tried, but of all the Atari systems that one looks like the most interesting one, I mean, it does a lot of scaling and that's cool!

[SignOfZeta]

If you don't like fighters then the NGP isn't really for you.

The emulators don't really tell the story either. It ignores the NGP's 8 direction microswitch joystick, which actually makes playing all those fighting games possible.

The Lynx was great but also several times more expensive than these systems and the battery life was not quite the same as the 50 hours you get from two AAs in the NGP and nearly half that with only one AA in the WS. This was the era of austere handheld gaming brought on by the realization that the weakest handheld had consistently crushed the completion full stop so power probabky didn't matter, especially when battery life was so bad you couldn't really leave the house with the backlit color stuff.

Screen tech is a huge thing too that doesn't come across in an emulator, with the Swan Cryrstal being vastly better than NGP and NGP better the GBC.

So these are some impressive looking games which look to be made probably further into the lifespan of the GBC than the NGP even existsed but I have to ask, which of these GBC games would you actually want to play? The FMV intro is cool but the game it's attached to doesn't look quite as fun as Metal Slug 2nd Mission. I have 200 hours into the *second* Card Fighters game which is longer than I've played any GBC game except Pokemon Pinball (which I was fantastical about for some reason) so I guess for me it's about the games and not so much the hardware but even the hardware is pretty great. The GBC's fighting games are a flickering unplayable joke compared to Match of the Millennium or Gals Fighters of Last Blade. Warioware pretty much jacked it's thing from Ganbare Neo Poke-kun* (which has some great tech demo mini games in it). You have to spend actual time with the games to understand this though and actual money helps. I was an avid customer of NGP and GBC at the time and the comparisons were constant and always one sided against GBC's 80s past. Aparently after I ditched GBC and more of the clear carts (GBC only) started coming out the bling blong went sky high but you can't tell me that Toy Story game looks like something worth owning a system for. 




* I wish I could explain Neo Poke-kun but its just fucking impossible. You have to live with it for life to understand it. Its genius, realer than real.

[ccovell]

And the Wonderswan's sound is good! The speaker may not be, but the sound hardware itself is, and games like Pocket Fighter and Star Hearts really show off how much better the WS sounds than even the Game Boy!

What I remember reading is that the WS multiplexes its 4 channels' outputs through PWM at a high rate (similar to the Namco 163) but this is still quite audible.  On the actual WS hardware, the PWM audio is passed through to the piezeo speaker as-is, but the headphone attachment contains a lowpass filter to take out the PWM aliasing.  So it sounds good ONLY IF you purchase the official headphone adaptor.

[Arkhan Asylum]

While I don't think the NGPC is a bad handheld by any means, I think it's not quite as good as it could (or should) be...

Didn't you just agree it was "kinda crap" , and say it was "underwhelming", lol.

Maybe you just mean the hardware is OK, and the games suck?    I don't know.   

It's true that if you don't want to play a fighting game, there's hardly a point to owning a NGPC.

Without it, I was stuck with Fist of the Northstar and Mortal Kombat for Gameboy as portable fighting.   What a disaster my life was.

In any event, I find that comparing any handheld crap in emulators is kind of stupid.   You need to be comparing the real-things. It's like people playing Virtual Boy games in an emulator and going OH I DIDN'T GET A HEADACHE.

Lucky you, lol.

Half this crap, if you're playing it an emulator, you're literally playing a watered down version of a different game you could also be emulating.

The magic was in the fact that this thing was in your pocket, and you could play it at holiday functions instead of listening to your weird cousins talk about dumb shit.   It's rare that I ever used SuperGameboy or GBA player for anything outside of an RPG at home. 

The modern equivalent of that is how I plug my PSP into my TV so I don't have to sit staring at my crotch for 12 hours while I play an RPG on that thing.   otherwise, I'm probably just playing a PS3/4 game.   

The fighting games are nice, I like them, but the bland graphics with almost monochrome sprites really drag it down to me... The 2nd BG layer is nice, but instead of wowing me whenever there is parallax, I just get more disappointed whenever there isn't, and there often isn't...
And again, the soundchip, why so weak? Why only square waves? Give me a more robust sound!

(You don't need 2 BG layers for parallax.  Parallax and layered scrolling aren't the same thing.  They just go together nicely.)

All handhelds basically had goony sound until the GBA.  The Wonderswan was a bit exceptional but still not like it was mindblowingly better than even the regular Gameboy. 

Lynx and GameGear sounded blerpy too.  It all sounded blerpy.  Even Wonderswan's sorta ho-hum.

When you're hearing this stuff blaring out of a handheld speaker without headphones, this stuff mostly doesn't matter.

The screens were tiny, not backlit, and often played in poorly lit living rooms or cars, or outside in direct sunlight.   The things you are complaining about are things you only notice when you sit and compare them in an emulator.   

I think if you had these in your hands, you'd barely give two shits either way and would mostly care about which games were better.    You'd probably be unimpressed with all of it compared to an SP.   

The fighting games on NGPC , and stuff like cardfighters clash had really clean, contrasty, nice looking visuals on those screens.   It definitely had a nice visual pop to it while playing, and ultimately, that was really important.   Later games and stuff on the GBA actually became more difficult to see because it was still not backlit, but now you have more shading and such.   The pop went away.

Neither the NGPC (outside of the fighting games) or Wonderswan is really that amazing.  They had their interesting/neat games, and they were fun enough to have.   

Though, I didn't like Wonderswan's buttons.  They are gross.

however, ultimately, everything generally fell back to the original gameboy.  Everything came and went, the original Gameboy somehow kicked everything's ass, and then the GBA showed up, wasn't backlit, we all still bought them with Xmas/Birthday money like the dumbfucks that we were, and it was fun even though we could barely see these new fancy graphics.

and then, you put it in your pocket and scratch the screen and go "ah shit", and then you see the SP release and want to lay down on a freeway.

The Gameboy Color was stupid.  I bought that thing the day it came out, and it was stupid.  I shoved Final Fantasy Adventure in and went "This is it?".  Links Awakening DX ?  "Why did I buy this, this is stupid", lol.   

but then I sat and played it for hours. and hours. and hours.   It was fun.  It was also small.  and it was that cool clear purple stuff.

I do not understand how/why the Gameboy+Pocket+Color basically annihilated everything in it's path.   It just did.  It didn't look or sound the best, but it won.   I think it was mostly because of the sheer number of available games that satisfied people's need for some kind of coherent action / whatever game on the go.  The library had it all (except fighters, lol).   

Maybe we were dumb.  I don't know.  I used to hold a flashlight in my mouth to see what the fuck was going on in games.  Those click on lights/magnifiers were idiotic as hell.   I remember trying to play in the dark, using passing streetlights to fumble through FF Legend #1. 

Show a less-informed gamer a Game Gear and an NGPC and ask them "Which one do you think is 8 bit and which is 16 bit?" and chances are they'll say the Game Gear is the 16 bit one, because at least that one has the 4bpp graphics to back it up, even if the colour count is actually lower and it lacks a 2nd scrolling plane...

So, PC-E is 8-bit, and it looks better than both. 

but, chances are they will say Gamegear because it's backlit, they can see what the fuck is going on, and you're probably showing them Columns or Sonic, so they'll just assume things. 

(Oh hey, NGPC had a cool Sonic game)

A less informed gamer probably has no idea what 4bpp or background plane even means, so I hope you wouldn't expect to even say those words at them.

Here's my take on the NGPC and Wonderswan (I used to have both)

vs.

Visually, Wonder Stadium looks a little better, but that music is itchy.   and Baseball Stars played better.



Looking back, I played alot of Golf on Gameboy.   Just plain ass Golf.  and Baseball.   Some real in depth naming from Nintendo there.

Mario Golf on GBC didn't look great at all compared to Nice On or Neo Turf Masters, but that didn't stop me from playing it endlessly, either.


and I don't even like Golf.   I hate golf.   I don't know why I like Golf games.



anyway, I think the takeaway is Wonderswan's just another thing that got steamrolled by gameboy, with a handful of cool shit, and gross buttons.

[SignOfZeta]

The Swan Crystal has a screen as good as the NGPC but wider. The original Color Swan was a massively blurry mess. I swear there must be 400ms of latency in that LCD. Anything static looks fine but moving things look like some cable access FX was applied. In a game where the entire screen scrolls with the character, the character is visable but the background almost vansishes. The Crystal fixed this completely.

[Michirin9801]

If you don't like fighters then the NGP isn't really for you.

I bloody LOVE fighting games! I've played practically every colour fighting game the NGPC has to offer (but not the black and white ones) and while they certainly have bigger and more smoothly animated sprites than the GBC, and a 2nd BG layer (which was often just used on the HUD so there was no parallax) those were the only real advantage they have, at least from a hardware perspective... What really drags it down to me is the fact that every single character in every single one of them is just black, white and a 3rd custom colour... While it is true that GBC fighting games aren't as good, it's really not that hard to find GBC games which look better than NGPC games due to having more colourful characters, and since the tiles are still only 2bpp, the colour density in the backgrounds isn't any higher than the GBC...
What really drags the NGPC down to me though is the sound, I just can't stress how much of a difference having varied waveforms makes, and the NGPC doesn't have that, it's all just square waves and white noise, that's weak! It's this weak sound that makes it truly underwhelming to me...

Now, I haven't played on a real GBC, so I don't know how bad its screen was, I've played those games on the GBA SP and on the 3DS, so maybe the NGPC looked better back then because it had a better screen, but if we look at the games for what they are, not necessarily having to compare the actual handhelds, NGPC games look about on-par with GBC games, maybe a little better sometimes, sounds are definitely worse, but the GBC had the fortune of having its hardware pushed to hell and back by some very smart devs, (probably because it was so much more popular) so it has a lot of games that are really impressive-looking...

So these are some impressive looking games which look to be made probably further into the lifespan of the GBC than the NGP even existsed but I have to ask, which of these GBC games would you actually want to play?

I play all of them ;3
They're actually really fun! Except for Lucky Luke using B to jump and A to attack, that's just rubbish...

Didn't you just agree it was "kinda crap" , and say it was "underwhelming", lol.

Maybe you just mean the hardware is OK, and the games suck?    I don't know. 

I mean the games are fine but the hardware is kinda crap... The thing about the NGPC is that its weaknesses are much more pronounced than the GBC's, at least in emulation...

In any event, I find that comparing any handheld crap in emulators is kind of stupid.   You need to be comparing the real-things. It's like people playing Virtual Boy games in an emulator and going OH I DIDN'T GET A HEADACHE.

Lucky you, lol.

Half this crap, if you're playing it an emulator, you're literally playing a watered down version of a different game you could also be emulating.

The magic was in the fact that this thing was in your pocket, and you could play it at holiday functions instead of listening to your weird cousins talk about dumb shit.   It's rare that I ever used SuperGameboy or GBA player for anything outside of an RPG at home. 

The modern equivalent of that is how I plug my PSP into my TV so I don't have to sit staring at my crotch for 12 hours while I play an RPG on that thing.   otherwise, I'm probably just playing a PS3/4 game. 

I get this point, but I'm enthralled by less capable hardware, anything more powerful than a GBA pretty much ceases to impress me, at least when it comes to 2D...
For example, you'd think I'd hate playing the GBC version of Donkey Kong Country, but I think that version, while not ideal because of its wonky controls, is thoroughly fascinating! They've put Donkey Kong Country on an 8 bit handheld! And it looks the part, it kinda sounds the part, and it's pretty much feature-complete! That's awesome! Will I pick this version over the SNES original? Nope... But I will pick Guilty Gear Petit 2 on the Wonderswan over the original game on PlayStation ;3
And perhaps even Pocket Fighter as well, even if it's in black and white, but that version sounds nice~

(You don't need 2 BG layers for parallax.  Parallax and layered scrolling aren't the same thing.  They just go together nicely.)

I know, but when you have 2 BG layers to work with, and you don't do parallax, then unless you have a damn good reason (like having a top-down view for example) then I think you're not doing your game any favours...

All handhelds basically had goony sound until the GBA.  The Wonderswan was a bit exceptional but still not like it was mindblowingly better than even the regular Gameboy. 

Lynx and GameGear sounded blerpy too.  It all sounded blerpy.  Even Wonderswan's sorta ho-hum.

When you're hearing this stuff blaring out of a handheld speaker without headphones, this stuff mostly doesn't matter.

The Game Gear and the NGPC have basically the same sound, but the Game Boy was like a whole step and a half above those two, and the Wonderswan was yet another step and a half above the Game Boy, yeah the difference from the WS to the GB isn't mind-blowing, especially not when so many games insisted in using just square waves, but the few games that really took advantage of the sound hardware managed to sound pretty good!
I'm not too sure about the Lynx but I think that one is capable of playing samples, so that's nice...

The screens were tiny, not backlit, and often played in poorly lit living rooms or cars, or outside in direct sunlight.   The things you are complaining about are things you only notice when you sit and compare them in an emulator.   

I think if you had these in your hands, you'd barely give two shits either way and would mostly care about which games were better.    You'd probably be unimpressed with all of it compared to an SP.   

The fighting games on NGPC , and stuff like cardfighters clash had really clean, contrasty, nice looking visuals on those screens.   It definitely had a nice visual pop to it while playing, and ultimately, that was really important.   Later games and stuff on the GBA actually became more difficult to see because it was still not backlit, but now you have more shading and such.   The pop went away.

Yeah, I didn't have that experience, but that doesn't mean that my own experience with these systems, as 'unauthentic' as it may be, is not any less valid... I think emulating systems like these helps breathe new life into them, especially if you're like me and you're more interested in more limited hardware, emulating these systems helps you better appreciate the games for what they are, without having to deal with an unlit screen, a low-quality speaker and crappy buttons...

however, ultimately, everything generally fell back to the original gameboy.  Everything came and went, the original Gameboy somehow kicked everything's ass, and then the GBA showed up, wasn't backlit, we all still bought them with Xmas/Birthday money like the dumbfucks that we were, and it was fun even though we could barely see these new fancy graphics.

and then, you put it in your pocket and scratch the screen and go "ah shit", and then you see the SP release and want to lay down on a freeway.

The Gameboy Color was stupid.  I bought that thing the day it came out, and it was stupid.  I shoved Final Fantasy Adventure in and went "This is it?".  Links Awakening DX ?  "Why did I buy this, this is stupid", lol.   

but then I sat and played it for hours. and hours. and hours.   It was fun.  It was also small.  and it was that cool clear purple stuff.

I do not understand how/why the Gameboy+Pocket+Color basically annihilated everything in it's path.   It just did.  It didn't look or sound the best, but it won.   I think it was mostly because of the sheer number of available games that satisfied people's need for some kind of coherent action / whatever game on the go.  The library had it all (except fighters, lol).

The Game Boy won because of Tetris and Pokemon... In my opinion these are FAR from the best games on the system, but these two really helped cement the Game Boy's place as the most popular handheld... True, it may not have looked or sounded the best, but everyone had it, everyone wanted to play Tetris in its early days, and Pokemon in its later days, but the system was still good enough to play Mario, Zelda, Final Fantasy, Mega Man and what not, so why not put out games on the system that everyone already had? Some of us will buy and play all of the game systems, but most people will just stick with the first one they get, and for most people that was the Game Boy...

[CrackTiger]

Mode 7/pixelization isn't a good art style and is only impressive on a technical level when you're told that it's challenging for the hardware. Genuine artwork and pixelart is infinitely more impressive and enjoyable.

Gameboy Color is significantly superior hardware compared to the original Gameboy, but the games we got make it feel inferior to Neo Geo Pocket Color in every way except sound, but it happens to have one of my favorite chip sounds.

GBC games feel full of compromises, the way that 8-bit console ports do. The NGPC games don't feel like they're making any compromises.

Even in the most impressive GBC games, it looks and feels like sprites are distorted and in funky shapes and sizes because of sprite limitations. Even with compromised sprites, flicker is common. You also get a feel for when there aren't more sprites onscreen overall because there can't be and a lot of action leads to slowdown.

Sprites in NGPC games feel like their sizes were chosen for what works best on the small screen and were drawn the way the artist wanted. The pixelart for sprites and backgrounds doesn't look or feel like its built around restrictions. Some games toss around enough sprites and action that it would be impressive in a 16-bit console game. All without noticeable flicker or slowdown.

I don't know what the color palettes or restrictions are for these systems, but GBC games tend to use gaudier colors and feel like they're held back by bottlenecks. NGPC games have smoother/subtler/softer coloring and stark contrast in certain elements look and feel like it's to make things like a player sprite stand out on the limited screen.

GBC game backgrounds look and feel noticeable tiled, like <medium sized NES games. NGPC game backgrounds don't look or feel like they have any limitations at all and often feature less tiled than 16-bit console games.

GBC games look and feel like it can't handle too much sprite animation at a time. NGPC games look and feel like everything can be highly animated without challenge.


It's fair to say that the difference between GBC games and NGPC games is similar to the difference between 16-bit console games and Neo Geo games. And this is with the GBC's massive success leading to it  being pushed much further by top developers, while the NGPC has just getting started.

[seieienbu]

I picked up a Wonderswan color when it came out along with FF1.  It was kinda fun for a while; I was taking Japanese in college at the time so I used that as an excuse to justify the purchase.  In the end I only wound up with a few other games.  FF2, 4, Blue Wing Blitz, Rockman and Forte, and a couple of Gundam games.  I later got a Wonderswan black and white for really cheap but never got a Crystal.  The system was neat but I didn't make much use out of it as games were annoying to get ahold of and there weren't that many options that I was interested in.

I loved NGPC fighting games for the novelty of being able to play a fighting game with reasonably good control on the go.  The games had robust combo engines and played much better than you would expect.  Obviously I'd prefer if they had put four buttons on the thing; I always thought that was a glaring oversight.  As most of the games on the platform that people wanted were fighting games based off of a 4 button arcade machine it just seems that you'd naturally want to put in the extra two buttons.  Aside from the buttons, the only thing that ever bugged my about the NGPC fighters was that you generally had black, white, clear, and 1 accent color per sprite.  I'm not sure if every color pallet included the first three colors or just the clear color but either way I always thought that a game could look Really cool if instead of one sprite you would layer two sprites on top of each other to make for 6 colors per dude.  If SNK had taken a fighter with a smaller roster (say, Last Blade perhaps?) and thrown extra effort into making everything have more colors then that would have been pretty cool.

My favorite games that weren't fighters were Metal Slug and Sonic.  I gladly purchased Bust a Move and played for a bit but as much as I wanted to love the game it was just too hard to see the different colors on that screen in all but perfect lighting.  After those though, I was always intrigued by Ogre Battle.  I loved the SNES game and I thought the NGPC version was really neat.  It was very hard to understand the dialog as it used no kanji and didn't put spaces in the text at all but it played well. 

After being pretty much unable to figure out what they were saying in Ogre Battle, I wanted some RPGs for the platform to come out in English.  Though I hadn't known of its impending release, I read about Faselei being canned when SNK went bankrupt and thought that was it and there never would be any RPGs in English.  Some years passed and I was at a Hastings (video rental chain in the south) and I saw sets of NGPCs for sale with 4 games for something like $80.  They didn't have their original packaging but instead were in a clear plastic container.  While looking them over I saw one set came with Faselei so I, of course, picked it up.  I think I booted the game up once; maybe I'll go back and try to finish it at some point but by the time that was released the sting of not having an RPG on NGPC had gone away and it was mostly just a thing of curiosity and not something that I actually wanted to play.

[Michirin9801]

@CrackTiger, sure, if you think that way it's fine, but gameplay footage or images speak louder than words, show me an NGPC game that looks better than Wacky Racers, Lucky Luke or Cannon Fodder...

Heck, I'll even throw in Dragon Quest III, although this is not the ideal version of the game, and the sprites are just black, white and an accent colour (which makes it look more like an NGPC game) the overworld backgrounds look brilliant! They look almost 16 bit! And in the battles, while there are no backgrounds, which is a real bummer IMO and what ultimately turns me off of this version, they've still managed to animate all of the enemies, and with more than one animation per enemy!

(There's a battle at 27:46)

Dragon Quest I + II also looks pretty good, DQ1 even has backgrounds during battles (because it only has to render 1 enemy per battle so it can use the rest of the layer to put something interesting in there for you to look at) it doesn't animate the enemies, but I think the sprites look even better because they're more colourful, and the overworld backgrounds still look pretty good! Even if not quite as good as III's...

I always thought that a game could look Really cool if instead of one sprite you would layer two sprites on top of each other to make for 6 colors per dude.  If SNK had taken a fighter with a smaller roster (say, Last Blade perhaps?) and thrown extra effort into making everything have more colors then that would have been pretty cool.

That would have been sick!

[SignOfZeta]

I think that Wacky Races game looks like shit and no fun, personally so it's hard to "beat it". When you see Gals Fighters or Last Blade running on real hardware then you've actually seen the thing. As BT said, the NGP does what it did with confidence and ease. There is almost no flicker in the entire NGP library and games got slightly smoother every few months. Gal's Fighters being the smoothest and R-1 or Fatal Fury being the roughest but every single fighter on NGP looks better than any fighter on GBC. Even during the GBA era when they could do much more complicated games I'd still take the NGP because a perfectly playing simple game is better than something that barely runs and only has half its buttons.

You're obsession with specs is weird. I think maybe people who plow through massive ROM libraries in emulators for handhelds without ever actually touching the real thing might have a slightly fucked outlook because of it.

[PukeSter]

NGPC was always pretty cool. Gotta love Card Fighters, Mega Man Power Battles, Metal Slug 2 and Sonic!

Haven't played enough of the Wonderswan to be honest, but it's definitely more of a weeby console. I'm a big one piece fan, and while Swan Coliseum looks really nice, it feels more like a 2nd rate Smash Bros.
Judgement Silversword is cool but it's hardcore bullet hell. The Ghouls n Ghosts game is crazy slow.

[SignOfZeta]

The WS is like the PCE and the FX in one. The earlier period was dominated by action games which are now expensive and the later more tech capable titles are dumb menu driven anime crap.

Liking fighters is a prerequisite to NGP fandom, liking whatever anime Bandai has licensing rights to is kinda helpful for Swan enjoyment.

[seieienbu]

You're obsession with specs is weird. I think maybe people who plow through massive ROM libraries in emulators for handhelds without ever actually touching the real thing might have a slightly fucked outlook because of it.

The thing that the NGPC is probably the worst at is being a system to go through and play every ROM for 30 seconds before making a "this is cool" or "this sucks" comment and then moving on.  Perhaps you played all the fighting games but really, how much can you learn playing a fighting game like that?  The genre isn't intended to be glanced and, played against the CPU for one match, then move on to the next one.  Playing the library in such a way is a disservice to yourself.

Beyond that, actually holding an NGPC and seeing what it can do when compared to what came both before and after is what makes the system special in my view.  There's really nothing comparable to NGPC on any handheld hardware that came before it.  When I tried playing Mortal Kombat on GB/GG or Street Fighter 2 on GB I instantly saw how inferior and unplayable those games were.  Playing those on car trips/whatever while I was a kid was miserable;  I really wanted Street Fighter on the go but it just didn't work.  I might have given up on all hope for a good way to play handheld fighting games at all except I finally got to play on the D-pad for the NGPC made specifically with fighters in mind.  Beyond that, the games were built from the ground up to take advantage of the platform's controls and suddenly I had something that is not only playable but also very fun.

Shortly after the NGPC came SF2 Revival, SFA3, and a few others on GBA and I'm once again back to playing a game on a platform that sucks at the game I'm trying to play.  The last handheld fighter I played was on PSP; I played Darkstalkers Chronicles briefly and then called it quits quickly due to how horrible the game felt.  The NGPC was the best at what it was trying to be good at.  It's still fun to play those games today which is far more than I can say for a lot of platforms.  No, it doesn't have the largest game library and it isn't a perfect system even for the era but what it did well was make playing portable fighting games fun.

If you like fighting games as a genre and are willing to experiment with old school platforms then I would highly recommend you pick up an NGPC on the cheap and a couple of fighters before making any decision on whether or not it is "kinda crap."  Play for a while, explore the game engines, see how easy it is to get the character to use the move you intend for them to use.  There's a lot to enjoy on the system and particularly in that genre.

[Michirin9801]

Why do you assume I've plown through the library and played just each game for 5 minutes before deciding whether it's good or bad? I've been playing the NGPC for quite a while now, I've played many of its titles multiple times, I'm fairly familiar with what they're like, and yeah, the fighters are mechanically sound and well-made, but due to its poor sound, low bit depth graphics and almost monochrome sprites, I've generally felt rather underwhelmed by the system...

And yes, the NGPC has better fighting games than the GBC, I never said otherwise, and I love fighting games as well, but the quality of fighting games aside, I don't feel that the NGPC is any more technically or graphically impressive than the GBC, even if it is more capable...

And honestly, as good as the NGPC fighting games may be, I still thought Guilty Gear Petit 2 and Pocket Fighter on the Wonderswan were better than pretty much everything the NGPC had to offer, and I didn't even have to play them for over a week to form that opinion...
And the GBA fighters, SF2 Revival and KoF EX2 in particular, wipe the floor with the NGPC... If you prefer the NGPC's control stick, that's fine, but I've been playing on D-pads my entire life, and the GBA SP has one of my favourite D-pads ever, I like it because it's clicky so it's more precise and I can consistently pull off my special moves in it, and I sure as hell can't say that about an arcade stick because I'm not a fan of them...

[SignOfZeta]

The GBA doesn't even have enough buttons to play Street Fighter. The idea is a joke.

The NGP is the only system I'll play a 2D fighter on. 3D stuff that's mostly button sequences and tapping I can do on PSP no problem but the NGP is the only system I can land a ground FAB with 'Gief in. That's not a minor detail, it's critical.

[turboswimbz]

I can't say I've had many experiences with these systems.  but I always felt like the NGP and wonderswan are pretty neat for what they are.  I wish more systems got the library that the BC + GBC got.  maybe we'd look at these systems somewhat differently if they had more games and were more accessible.   but sometimes also the lack of this makes systems enjoyable on a whole other level.  So I think you take the good and the bad and have fun with them all as much as you can.   

it's critical.

[Michirin9801]

The GBA doesn't even have enough buttons to play Street Fighter. The idea is a joke.

The only idea that's a joke is this notion that "you need X amount of buttons to play Y kind of game"
As you know, there are plenty of excellent fighters that only use 2 buttons, and heck even only ONE button, the game just has to be designed for this kind of control scheme, and Street Fighter can absolutely work with only two buttons, let alone 4, yes it's not going to be the same as the 6 button version, but it can work, and as the GBA proves, it can work REALLY well...

[PukeSter]

The GBA doesn't even have enough buttons to play Street Fighter. The idea is a joke.

and heck even only ONE button

???? but they don't exist?

[SignOfZeta]

The GBA doesn't even have enough buttons to play Street Fighter. The idea is a joke.

The only idea that's a joke is this notion that "you need X amount of buttons to play Y kind of game"
As you know, there are plenty of excellent fighters that only use 2 buttons, and heck even only ONE button, the game just has to be designed for this kind of control scheme, and Street Fighter can absolutely work with only two buttons, let alone 4, yes it's not going to be the same as the 6 button version, but it can work, and as the GBA proves, it can work REALLY well...

I wasn't speaking in the abstract. You need six buttons to play a port of a six button game. There is no substitute. If the game is properly redesigned for fewer buttons (ie: all NGP fighters) then it works fine. You're probably not a mega hardcore fighting game fan if you're cool with missing 1/3 of the basic moves in order to have more color in the sprites.

[Michirin9801]

???? but they don't exist?

Check out Shadow Fighter on the Amiga...

[Arkhan Asylum]

You're obsession with specs is weird. I think maybe people who plow through massive ROM libraries in emulators for handhelds without ever actually touching the real thing might have a slightly fucked outlook because of it.

Yep.

Yeah, I didn't have that experience, but that doesn't mean that my own experience with these systems, as 'unauthentic' as it may be, is not any less valid... I think emulating systems like these helps breathe new life into them, especially if you're like me and you're more interested in more limited hardware, emulating these systems helps you better appreciate the games for what they are, without having to deal with an unlit screen, a low-quality speaker and crappy buttons...

Unfortunately, as much as you don't like it and are trying to justify otherwise, your experience with these machines IS less valid, because you are not actually playing the systems.   You damned yourself while trying to justify it by admitting it is unauthentic.   

It's not like emulating a console where you can USB-a-controller, and fanagle it into being close enough.

There were 3rd party controllers left and right anyways.  and various TVs/sound systems/etc. one might use when using say, a Megadrive.    Emulating a home console has reached the point where you can basically faithfully recreate everything.

Dealing with the tiny unlit screens, possibly shitty buttons, and portable speakers is part of what truly forms an opinion of these machines.   That is the real experience.   Until you've tried playing them in a moving car, or in shitty lighting, you are missing out.   Until you've frantically tried getting to a savepoint or password screen because the batteries are about to shit-out on you, you're also missing out.   90s handheld gaming was basically our Vietnam.

You're foregoing all that to just compare the software, and a bunch of technical-spec wanking that reeks of 'phile tendencies and throws practicality out the window. 

You're not "breathing new life" into them by emulating them.    You're basically just playing shittier versions of games when you don't need to be.   

We were playing Gameboy/NGPC and downgraded games because Supaboys and shit weren't invented yet.   If we had the option to take SNES portably around, we would have.

Turbo Express/Sega Nomad were fuckin cool and ahead of their time.   It's a shame their battery lives were not.

What you need to do is emulate a NGPC on a tiny LCD screen with the brightness set to 5%, smash one of your speakers with a hammer, and sit in direct sunlight.   

The only idea that's a joke is this notion that "you need X amount of buttons to play Y kind of game"
As you know, there are plenty of excellent fighters that only use 2 buttons, and heck even only ONE button, the game just has to be designed for this kind of control scheme, and Street Fighter can absolutely work with only two buttons, let alone 4, yes it's not going to be the same as the 6 button version, but it can work, and as the GBA proves, it can work REALLY well...

"REALLY well" is what we call "a FUCKING stretch".    It worked, but it's clumsy and goes against how anyone who is used to Street Fighter is going to expect to be playing the game.

Downsizing control schemes of 6 button fighters is pretty lacking.   There is a reason people buy Ave6 pads.   

It's fine when the game was intended to be a 2 button fighter.
 
NGPC fighters were basically an anomaly in that their design + the NGPC itself made them work well.  However, they're still doofy compared to the real deal, which again goes back to my point that you're emulating watered down stuff when you don't need to, lol.

and as Zeta said, I am thinking you aren't really a hardcore fighting game fan.   Liking playing them and bopping your way through them successfully is not quite the same thing.

It's like kids screaming about loving skateboarding as they putz around a driveway or alleyway, without ever dropping into a halfpipe, or flying through the air off a ramp.   It's a whole different world, and you sort of sound like you have a lack of understanding of the borderline 'tism shit that goes on with fighting games.

Also, those 1 button fighters are dogshit.   That stuff is for potatoes.  Most experiences on the Amiga are basically dogshit compared to anything else at the time.  Generally, the people who talk about how great that stuff is are actually just talking about how the visuals and sounds were, because the games themselves play pretty piss-poor almost always.

lol.

[DragonmasterDan]

Some years ago, using only a meager crappy cell phone I made a video comparing the three Wonderswan models after having just obtained a SwanCrystal at the time.

Here is the result:

[Michirin9801]

I wasn't speaking in the abstract. You need six buttons to play a port of a six button game.

No you don't

If the game is properly redesigned for fewer buttons (ie: all NGP fighters) then it works fine.

Because of that exactly!
Pocket Fighter and the GBC port of Street Fighter Alpha managed to translate Street Fighter's Control scheme to two buttons, you might be missing some move variants, but they both still work as very decent fighters, and since the GBA has 4 buttons you can get even more move variants in there!

Unfortunately, as much as you don't like it and are trying to justify otherwise, your experience with these machines IS less valid, because you are not actually playing the systems.   You damned yourself while trying to justify it by admitting it is unauthentic.

No, it's NOT less valid, it's different, but I've played the games, therefore I can have an opinion about them.

You're not "breathing new life" into them by emulating them.    You're basically just playing shittier versions of games when you don't need to be.   

We were playing Gameboy/NGPC and downgraded games because Supaboys and shit weren't invented yet.   If we had the option to take SNES portably around, we would have.

I don't have to "need" to play a handheld version of a console or arcade game to be interested in it and enjoy playing it, and if the game is good, but trapped on a handheld that has an unlit screen, a crappy speaker and wonky buttons, you ARE breathing new life into it by emulating it, because you can then better appreciate the game for what it is! It served its purpose on being a handheld version of a "better" game back then, but if it's still good, there's still reason to play it!

Also, this notion completely undermines the system exclusives, here's an example, Guilty Gear Petit 2 is an original Wonderswan Colour game, and it's already become my favourite in the series thus far! Granted I've only played 5 other games in the series, most of them on handhelds, so I could still maybe find another game in the series that I like even better whenever I get around to playing more, but right now, I like that game better than the others in the series that I've played...

Downsizing control schemes of 6 button fighters is pretty lacking.

If you do it wrong... But if you do it right, as mentioned above, it can work, and the GBA version of Street Fighter II DID work! Will I pick it over the SNES version? I'll pick it over The New Challengers, but not over Hyper Fighting, but I can't take the SNES on-the-go now can I? (No, the Supaboy is too big and bulky and you look like an idiot carrying it around)

Thankfully I can play the PCE version with 6 buttons on my 3DS, even if the sound is crippled by a bad emulator, so there's still a reason for me to play SF2 Turbo Revival...

Yeah, with less buttons it's not gonna be the same, but it doesn't have to be the same, it just has to be good, and to me, not only are the GBA (and Wonderswan) fighters good, they're better than the NGPC ones...

Also, those 1 button fighters are dogshit.   That stuff is for potatoes.  Most experiences on the Amiga are basically dogshit compared to anything else at the time.  Generally, the people who talk about how great that stuff is are actually just talking about how the visuals and sounds were, because the games themselves play pretty piss-poor almost always.

lol.

Yeah sure, throw in the bad ports of SF2, but omit the GOOD fighters that were designed for 1 button...
Again, see Shadow Fighter:

Honestly, with this whole argument you guys just sound like: "REEEEE! You've not played the systems the same way I did, so you're playing it wrong!"
And THAT is what I call a "slightly f***ed outlook"
Neither do you know how I played it, nor is it important, what's important is that I've played the games, and I have something to say about them, nothing more, nothing less... I can accept that you don't agree with what I'm saying, and I respect your opinion on whatever the subject matter is, but what I CANNOT accept is you telling me that I'm having a "less valid" experience just because it's not the same one that you had...

Also: "REEEE! You're not a real Fighting Game Fan because you like playing with less buttons!"
You can't judge fandom like that... First of all, I don't dislike the NGPC fighters, I just think the WS and GBA ones are better...
I could care less about how many buttons a game has, what I care more about is whether or not the game is fun to play, and I think Fighting Games are a LOT of fun to play, regardless of how many buttons they have! And yeah, they put Street Fighter II and Alpha III on the GBA, and they were still good! They were still fun to play! I'm less fond of Alpha III because the PSP has a much better version, so I mostly stick to SFII and KoF EX2 on the GBA...

[Michirin9801]

Some years ago, using only a meager crappy cell phone I made a video comparing the three Wonderswan models after having just obtained a SwanCrystal at the time.

Here is the result.

Wow... The difference between the Swan Crystal and the Swan Colour is stunning!

[SignOfZeta]

It really is. The only downside is that they only offered terrible case colors after so many cool ones for the earlier systems.

[Arkhan Asylum]

No, it's NOT less valid, it's different, but I've played the games, therefore I can have an opinion about them.

But...you've not played the machines they're for, so no, your opinion and experience of those machines is in fact invalid.

There's shades of gray to this when home machines and computers are concerned.  However, when you get into handheld territory, there's a whole dynamic you have completely missed.

I am fairly certain your opinions on these games would change if you were playing them on the actual handhelds.  The way they were designed and intended to be played.

It's a much different experience than playing like MSX or PC98 or X68000 in an emulator on a PC.   It's barely any different than using a real one in those cases, and is sometimes preferable so you can avoid configuration issues, dead floppies that you find out about halfway through a game when it won't load a goddamn town anymore, strange cable requirements, or finding out that 3 or 4 keys on your keyboard suddenly aren't working. 

lol, or like DOS games in DOSBox.  It's good at accept that you're lucky you aren't dicking off with memory configurations and can just basically mount/go.   Lots of us had to play a separate game called "getting the fucking game to launch properly" before we could even *play* the game.    Sometimes, after we beat that game, the sequel, called "Son of a bitch now the music works but the sound effects dont" came out immediately, and had to be completed too.   

Nobody is going to wish that shit on anyone.

handhelds though?   You're missing out not playing them on the actual devices.   I honestly feel bad for people who missed the 90s handheld gaming era. 

You can go play these: http://pica-pic.com/

but, it's never going to be like having a real one in all of it's retarded glory.

I don't have to "need" to play a handheld version of a console or arcade game to be interested in it and enjoy playing it, and if the game is good, but trapped on a handheld that has an unlit screen, a crappy speaker and wonky buttons, you ARE breathing new life into it by emulating it, because you can then better appreciate the game for what it is! It served its purpose on being a handheld version of a "better" game back then, but if it's still good, there's still reason to play it!

You can't better appreciate any of it because you literally have no idea what these handhelds were actually like.   You're just throwing specs out there and comparing/complaining about them, completely out of context.

It's obvious you're not interested in the handheld machine itself.   You're interested in another batch of games, tech specs, and chiptunes to compare to the SNES, lol.

If you were interested in the handhelds themselves, you wouldn't be trying this hard to justify yourself, and you'd have picked up a Wonderswan or NGPC by now.

None of these handhelds are actually bad.  They were all fucking awesome.  They just had their goofy nuances to them that came with the territory. 

Plus, that blue camo NGPC was rad as fuck.   

I'm legit debating buying a fucking NGPC again after this stupid discussion, lol.   I almost picked up a Wonderswan again in Japan back in April and stopped myself.  "No dummy.  You don't need that.  Stop." was all I could tell myself as I bought a bunch of 30 year old magazines instead like an asshole.

Also, this notion completely undermines the system exclusives, here's an example, Guilty Gear Petit 2 is an original Wonderswan Colour game, and it's already become my favourite in the series thus far! Granted I've only played 5 other games in the series, most of them on handhelds, so I could still maybe find another game in the series that I like even better whenever I get around to playing more, but right now, I like that game better than the others in the series that I've played...

*eye roll*.  So it's your favorite watered down Guilty Gear game because you've admittedly basically only played handheld ones.  Dang.  You got me.

Some of the exclusives for handhelds are neat, but I can't quite think of any exclusive that you are truly missing out on if you don't play it outside of the novelty of them.   Maybe Buffer's Evolution?  It isn't that great. 

The exception to this is probably Pokemon, as it's not a watered down version of something else, and has always been a handheld/on the go game, even today.

Undermining system exclusives is OK sometimes.   See:  the cdi, lol.

You're undermining the actual hardware by not even using it or playing it, or experiencing what it actually is.

(No, the Supaboy is too big and bulky and you look like an idiot carrying it around)

Funfact: No you don't. 

And you missed the point of the Supaboy comment.

At the time, we were walking around sometimes with various attachments, lights, and doodads to play portable games.  The Supaboy would've been awesome.  The Sega Nomad was awesome.  You didn't look like an idiot unless you had that full mess of a gameboy setup with all the clicked-on horseshit.

Have you not been to a game convention, or interacted with any other gamers in person?  People love the Supaboy, and the ability to jam a super gameboy in it and go "Fuck yeah".   It's pretty magical.

Thankfully I can play the PCE version with 6 buttons on my 3DS, even if the sound is crippled by a bad emulator, so there's still a reason for me to play SF2 Turbo Revival...

If you're emulating, why even play the PCE one?  You could play better versions of SF2 at that point.  Why even debate the Supaboy thing if you're carrying around a fucking 3DS with emulators.

You make no sense sometimes.

Yeah, with less buttons it's not gonna be the same, but it doesn't have to be the same, it just has to be good, and to me, not only are the GBA (and Wonderswan) fighters good, they're better than the NGPC ones...

Again, playing out of context and ignoring that the NGPC had a better control stick, likely playing on a handheld emulator where backlighting and such makes the GBA's visuals look way better.

and still making me wonder why you don't just play a better version instead.  lol

Yeah sure, throw in the bad ports of SF2, but omit the GOOD fighters that were designed for 1 button...
Again, see Shadow Fighter:

I'm not omitting good fighters.  There aren't any really.

I acknowledged Shadow Fighter by responding to the comment.   I just decided to throw in more garbage games.

Shadow Fighter on the Amiga sucked.  It sucked then, and it sucks now.  I grew up with an Amiga.   I also grew up laughing at all the piss-poor attempts at fighting games on that thing.  Body Blows was dumb.

Rise of the Robots was hilariously shitty.  It was all pretty bad unless you ONLY compare it to the other shit on the Amiga.  Shadow Fighter looked cool, kind of.

Are we doing something where we only compare it to other shitty 1 button games, so we don't compare it to actually good games?  If we're doing that, yeah I guess it's OK, but that's like saying it's the best STD because it clears up the fastest.   It's still an STD and you don't want it.

At least you're probably playing it with a controller that isn't a piece of shit Tac-3 or something.   There's that.

Arguing that Shadow Fighter is good is bordering on implying that fighting street isn't actually bad, it just has a dumbassed control scheme that doesn't work great, and annoys people, but as far as "games with dumbassed control schemes go, its GRRRREAAAT!"

Fuckin Tony the Tiger over here.   

Honestly, with this whole argument you guys just sound like: "REEEEE! You've not played the systems the same way I did, so you're playing it wrong!"

Well, you aren't actually playing them, so yes, you are playing them wrong... lol.   I don't get why this is such a controversial concept.

And THAT is what I call a "slightly FUCKED FUCKED FUCKED ITS NOT HARD TO SWEAR STOP CENSORING STUFF WE'RE NOT 5 outlook"

The only thing fucked is trying to say emulated handheld experiences are the same as playing the real handhelds.  It's not.   Just accept it and move on.  Stop being upset about it like it's going to change it.

Neither do you know how I played it, nor is it important, what's important is that I've played the games, and I have something to say about them, nothing more, nothing less... I can accept that you don't agree with what I'm saying, and I respect your opinion on whatever the subject matter is,

You've played the games. That's fine.   You've not played the hardware in any correct capacity, so saying anything about them is doofy.  Am I wrong?  Have you spent a good amount of time with a Wonderswan or NGPC handheld?  I think you are emulating either on PC or a 3DS.  It's not the same.  It's cool because it's freebs and lets you play stuff, but it's not the same. 

but what I CANNOT accept is you telling me that I'm having a "less valid" experience just because it's not the same one that you had...

You are having a less valid experience with the NGPC and Wonderswan.   You even said yourself it was unauthentic.  You agree with me while also trying to disagree with me.   

We all had the actual experience.  You are gorging yourself on emulation and trying to downplay the difference, expecting your frequent opinion-dropping to compensate for this detail.   No amount of that is going to replace what you missed.

You know what will?   Sitting and playing the real ones.  Get one.   They have flash cartridges AFAIK, and I believe Everdrives are coming.  That would kickass.

Also: "REEEE! You're not a real Fighting Game Fan because you like playing with less buttons!"
You can't judge fandom like that... First of all, I don't dislike the NGPC fighters, I just think the WS and GBA ones are better...
I could care less about how many buttons a game has, what I care more about is whether or not the game is fun to play, and I think Fighting Games are a LOT of fun to play, regardless of how many buttons they have! And yeah, they put Street Fighter II and Alpha III on the GBA, and they were still good! They were still fun to play! I'm less fond of Alpha III because the PSP has a much better version, so I mostly stick to SFII and KoF EX2 on the GBA...

I said you're not a HARDCORE fighting game fan.   Try f*u*c*k*i*n*g reading before you do your "reeeeeehururuuuuu don't invalidate me #triggered SJW I can do stuff too" bullshit.

You demonstrate a fundamental lack of understanding of fighting game intricacies if you don't care about buttons, and only want it to be A LOT OF FUN TO PLAY.   

I figure you only play them buy yourself and have not actually delved that far into the fighting game rabbit hole, outside of playing a bunch of them, and comparing/contrasting them.

I'm not even that hardcore of a fighting game fan anymore.  I hate competitive environments, and the way things carry on in those circles.

However, I am fully aware of various details / intricacies of fighting games that you COMPLETELY miss if you only play against AI.   It's like playing a different game completely when you're playing these things in that elevated scene.

like, watch people toss in Street Fighter Alpha 2 to kill some time.   They'll have fun.  It'll be cool.  They like fighting games.

Now watch two people with autism rainman fighting game stuff play SFAlpha 2 after they pull out their bigdick joysticks,  put on gloves with special fingertips, powder everything so no sweat is involved, get out protractors to make sure all the angles are correct with their seating/hand placement, and you'll see what I mean.

It's enthusiasm vs. "holy shit you really like fighting games".

Enthusiasts can go "oh this is OK.  The controls are all stupid now but it's OK I guess.  I'm having fun."

Hand a hardcore fighting game wacko a crapped up fighter on a handheld, and you're going to see it getting punted into a trashcan.

Your "good enough", is a more seasoned persons "Fuck this shit", and I am not sure you understand this.   You're comparing fighters in their "i had fun with it" capacity, basically ignoring all of the intricate details.

Which is shocking, honestly, given how much you start rambling about fuckin sound chip/sprite/color/electron stuff when talking about games.

[Michirin9801]

You are having a less valid experience with the NGPC and Wonderswan.   You even said yourself it was unauthentic.  You agree with me while also trying to disagree with me. 

What I agree with is that I've had a different experience than you, as in not having played the real physical thing, what I disagree is that it was less valid, it was not, and there is NOTHING you can say that will change that...

But you know what? I WOULD pick those systems up if I could! You think I don't want to play the actual systems? Here's the thing though, do you have any idea how much animators, let alone beginner/young animators who are still really low in the ranks get paid?
Answer: It's not even enough to pay for my college! Let alone importing a handheld from Japan and a flash cart, the only disposable income I have is what little I make through Bandcamp...
Until I can buy a Wonderswan or an NGPC, I'll simply keep on emulating them, because the games are fun, and I like them, but as I've said before, I liked the Wonderswan games better...

You can't better appreciate any of it because you literally have no idea what these handhelds were actually like.   You're just throwing specs out there and comparing/complaining about them, completely out of context.

It's obvious you're not interested in the handheld machine itself.   You're interested in another batch of games, tech specs, and chiptunes to compare to the SNES, lol.

I was comparing the specs of the NGPC to the GBC in order to justify why I think NGPC games generally don't look any better than GBC games, and besides, I like talking about specs, and you can't tell me how much I can or cannot appreciate something, or how interested in it I am, because you can't see inside of my mind, and by trying to do that you make an arse of yourself...

*eye roll*.  So it's your favorite watered down Guilty Gear game because you've admittedly basically only played handheld ones.  Dang.  You got me.

I said most of them were handheld titles, but I've also played the first game on PlayStation, and I even said in a previous post that I would pick Petit 2 over the original on PS1...

If you're emulating, why even play the PCE one?  You could play better versions of SF2 at that point.  Why even debate the Supaboy thing if you're carrying around a fucking 3DS with emulators.

Because the DS can't emulate anything more powerful than the PCE...
In that comment I was talking about being able to play Street Fighter II on-the-go, and my 3DS isn't hacked yet so I can only emulate whatever I can put on my DS flash cart, and the PCE is about as high as it goes... So it's either the PCE one or the GBA one, and you know, "better" is subjective, Hyper Fighting on the SNES is my go-to version even if Ultra SF2 HD edition or whatever else is available...

Again, playing out of context and ignoring that the NGPC had a better control stick, likely playing on a handheld emulator where backlighting and such makes the GBA's visuals look way better.

and still making me wonder why you don't just play a better version instead.  lol

And what I just said about "better being subjective" applies to this, as it does to basically everything...
You may think the NGPC has a better control stick, that's fine, I'll see about it whenever I get the chance to play one, but as I've said before, I've been using D-pads my entire life, and I always like them better than arcade sticks, so I'm not very confident about a thumb-sized arcade stick winning me over...

Well, you aren't actually playing them, so yes, you are playing them wrong... lol.   I don't get why this is such a controversial concept.
[...]
The only thing fucked is trying to say emulated handheld experiences are the same as playing the real handhelds.  It's not.   Just accept it and move on.  Stop being upset about it like it's going to change it.

Yes, I AM playing the games! I'm not playing on the same machine that you did, but these are still the same games, and I didn't even try to say that it's the same thing, I said time and time again that I know it's different, but once again, just because it's a different experience, doesn't mean it's less valid, nor does it mean it's wrong!

I said you're not a HARDCORE fighting game fan.   Try f*u*c*k*i*n*g reading before you do your "reeeeeehururuuuuu don't invalidate me #triggered SJW I can do stuff too" bullshit.

You demonstrate a fundamental lack of understanding of fighting game intricacies if you don't care about buttons, and only want it to be A LOT OF FUN TO PLAY.   

I figure you only play them buy yourself and have not actually delved that far into the fighting game rabbit hole, outside of playing a bunch of them, and comparing/contrasting them.

I'm not even that hardcore of a fighting game fan anymore.  I hate competitive environments, and the way things carry on in those circles.

However, I am fully aware of various details / intricacies of fighting games that you COMPLETELY miss if you only play against AI.   It's like playing a different game completely when you're playing these things in that elevated scene.

like, watch people toss in Street Fighter Alpha 2 to kill some time.   They'll have fun.  It'll be cool.  They like fighting games.

Now watch two people with autism rainman fighting game stuff play SFAlpha 2 after they pull out their bigdick joysticks,  put on gloves with special fingertips, powder everything so no sweat is involved, get out protractors to make sure all the angles are correct with their seating/hand placement, and you'll see what I mean.

It's enthusiasm vs. "holy shit you really like fighting games".

Enthusiasts can go "oh this is OK.  The controls are all stupid now but it's OK I guess.  I'm having fun."

Hand a hardcore fighting game wacko a crapped up fighter on a handheld, and you're going to see it getting punted into a trashcan.

Your "good enough", is a more seasoned persons "Fuck this shit", and I am not sure you understand this.   You're comparing fighters in their "i had fun with it" capacity, basically ignoring all of the intricate details.

Which is shocking, honestly, given how much you start rambling about fuckin sound chip/sprite/color/electron stuff when talking about games.

Neither you nor Zeta brought up "Being competitive at fighting games" as a factor until now, but if you're gonna do that, then no, I'm not competitive, but to me this is less of a question about "competitive intricacies" and more of a "game design" one, and if you're a game designer, and you can't make your fighting game work within 2 or 4 buttons, then I question how good of a designer you actually are... Not saying that I can design a fighting game, I haven't put in the time to do that yet, but I have played plenty of good (and deep) fighters that don't need 6 buttons, including within the Street Fighter series, and as far as I'm concerned, the intricacies don't come from how many buttons your game has, but from the game's design, as I've seen in videos about competitive fighting, a pro fighting game player is still gonna beat your arse even if the game only has a Jump button and a Dropkick button...

Put it short, how many buttons you have isn't important, Game Design is important!
In fact, if the game is good enough, competitive players will find their own intricacies even if they were not intended by the devs, just look at Super Smash Bros. Melee and what its competitive players do...

Also, I couldn't be competitive even if I wanted, the very rare opportunities that I get to play with someone else, it's always either with people I know, who can't beat me because they don't play as much as I do, or with strangers who I can't beat because they're actually competitive at it so I don't stand a chance, and who said they're gonna coach me or anything?

I guess you could simply call me a "fighting game enthusiast" that label fits me well enough...

[PukeSter]

Michirin if you've ever used a neo geo CD controller, the "microswitch" stick on the pocket is similar except smaller. It's really comfy!

[Michirin9801]

Michirin if you've ever used a neo geo CD controller, the "microswitch" stick on the pocket is similar except smaller. It's really comfy!

You mean that controller that looks more like a proper Gamepad rather than an Arcade stick? I've used it once a little bit... I don't remember it being very good though, but I'm under the impression that the particular controller I used wasn't in its top shape...

[Arkhan Asylum]

What I agree with is that I've had a different experience than you, as in not having played the real physical thing, what I disagree is that it was less valid, it was not, and there is NOTHING you can say that will change that...

If you think playing a handheld without ever holding said handheld in your hand isn't a less valid experience, you're kind of a dipshit.  Plain and simple.

It's great how you forego common sense to staunchly defend your basically nonsense stance on validity while still admitting its "unauthentic", lol.

I guess on the brightside, you can save tons of money on amusement parks by going and riding those virtual rollercoasters instead. 

Answer: It's not even enough to pay for my college! Let alone importing a handheld from Japan and a flash cart, the only disposable income I have is what little I make through Bandcamp...
Until I can buy a Wonderswan or an NGPC, I'll simply keep on emulating them, because the games are fun, and I like them, but as I've said before, I liked the Wonderswan games better...

Are you in USA, or Europe?  If you live in USA, and are as hardup poor as you claim all the time, you should be able to have financial aid out the ass that basically pays for your school FOR you, coupled with a part time job that gets money going. 

I can't quite sympathize with you if the above is the case.  I was buying stuff as a kid and through college.  It's not like this stuff is that expensive.  A fucking paper route covered buying a brand new gamecube and working like 12 hours a week at a local library covered stuff like PS2 games and a PS3.    I don't think NGPC or Wonderswan markets have gone fully price-fucked.  like 2 or 3 days of minimum wage work could get you one and a game or two...

If you're in Europe, I don't know how their setup is, so no idea there.  Good luck.

As I said anyways, emulating isn't that big of a deal for the game aspect, but you completely misunderstand the handheld and it's experience without having touched the real ones.  You're playing a bunch of well-back-lit-crap on nice screens, with a controller you can choose yourself (or already like, on the DS).   

another good way to illustrate this is when people think emulating arcade games gives the same experience as being in an arcade.

There's an atmospheric effect that you're completely missing.  Sure, you're playing the game, but there's something missing.   You just don't realize it yet.

I'd laugh really hard if you get NGPC and Wonderswans and flip which you like more.  What sucks though, is having done these via emulation, you're going into the handheld experience with a bias view point.   Kind of a bummer.

I was comparing the specs of the NGPC to the GBC in order to justify why I think NGPC games generally don't look any better than GBC games, and besides, I like talking about specs, and you can't tell me how much I can or cannot appreciate something, or how interested in it I am, because you can't see inside of my mind, and by trying to do that you make an arse of yourself...

I'm not trying to see inside your mind.  You're talking about appreciation with regards to things on things you haven't physically touched.  It's so backwards.  Do we need to start a GoFund me to get you a NGPC and Wonderswan so you can hold them and pet them, and see how they are? lol

Like no joke if I see one in my area cheap enough I will 100% buy the thing and mail you it.   I'd mail you mine if I hadn't sold it.  I kind of regret it sometimes. 

I said most of them were handheld titles, but I've also played the first game on PlayStation, and I even said in a previous post that I would pick Petit 2 over the original on PS1...

Yes, and I said BASICALLY.   ayyyy

Because the DS can't emulate anything more powerful than the PCE...
In that comment I was talking about being able to play Street Fighter II on-the-go, and my 3DS isn't hacked yet so I can only emulate whatever I can put on my DS flash cart, and the PCE is about as high as it goes... So it's either the PCE one or the GBA one, and you know, "better" is subjective, Hyper Fighting on the SNES is my go-to version even if Ultra SF2 HD edition or whatever else is available...

I'd play the SNES Street Fighters over the PCE one.  The PCE one isn't anything spectacular, lol.

I thought 3DS could do PS1 now. 

And what I just said about "better being subjective" applies to this, as it does to basically everything...
You may think the NGPC has a better control stick, that's fine, I'll see about it whenever I get the chance to play one, but as I've said before, I've been using D-pads my entire life, and I always like them better than arcade sticks, so I'm not very confident about a thumb-sized arcade stick winning me over...

I've been using d-pads longer than you've been alive.  That doesn't mean I don't recognize the importance of a competent control stick.  The GBA's dpad sucks.  SPs was OK, but, really, for the motions of a fighting game, dpads have always sucked.   You and I can do it just fine because we've been at it forever, but it's far from optimal.  You'd be surprised how much more fluid a fighting game feels once you get used to the sticks.   I had to forcibly work at it and break d-pad intuition.  It was kinda worth it.

You just need to not use a garbage stick.  Most people say they hate using joysticks.  What they mean is, they hate using poverty garbage joysticks, and have never used a sweet one.  One day you're going to touch a sweet control stick and go "goddamn, this is sweet".

Even arcade sticks themselves suck when you're playing a gunked up one that isn't properly maintained. 

Yes, I AM playing the games! I'm not playing on the same machine that you did, but these are still the same games, and I didn't even try to say that it's the same thing, I said time and time again that I know it's different, but once again, just because it's a different experience, doesn't mean it's less valid, nor does it mean it's wrong!

It's less valid.  It just is.  I'm not picking on you.  even myself playing them with emulators is less valid.  The difference being, I can at least appreciate being able to see shit and not having to fight with lighting.   

You know what though?  It generally feels wrong.  Sometimes jarring even, to play handheld games not-on-a-handheld.  even super gameboy as a kid was weird sometimes.  You get this highcolor border surrounding a 4 color game.  It was kind of cool, but also kinda like "well is this really that much better?"

Neither you nor Zeta brought up "Being competitive at fighting games" as a factor until now, but if you're gonna do that, then no, I'm not competitive, but to me this is less of a question about "competitive intricacies" and more of a "game design" one, and if you're a game designer, and you can't make your fighting game work within 2 or 4 buttons, then I question how good of a designer you actually are... Not saying that I can design a fighting game, I haven't put in the time to do that yet, but I have played plenty of good (and deep) fighters that don't need 6 buttons, including within the Street Fighter series, and as far as I'm concerned, the intricacies don't come from how many buttons your game has, but from the game's design, as I've seen in videos about competitive fighting, a pro fighting game player is still gonna beat your arse even if the game only has a Jump button and a Dropkick button...

We shouldn't have to bringup/point out the "competitive fighting game" part.  It's implied.  You needing it spelled out shows that you aren't a hardcore fighting game person.  It's not like it's a bad thing. 

Competitive fighting game scenes are some of the finnickiest fucktards in gaming. 

The point isn't designing a game with 2/4/6/whatever buttons.   The point is that when games go from 6 to 2 or whatever, you've now changed the entire dynamic of a game.  People's expectations of a Street Fighter aren't met when the buttons and gameplay isn't consistent.  That's why handheld fighters sometimes suck/piss people off. 

and at the time, the NGPC having a nice stick was an actually-important-thing.  This was back in the time when you could still walk into this thing called an arcade, put money in a machine, and play a fighting game (with joysticks as they were intended) with other people.

Rolling into Aladdin's Castle to play Marvel vs. Capcom on an actual machine was a great time.  The Dreamcast version is fucking great, but yknow what?  The Dreamcast controller's D-Pad fucking sucks a huge penis when you try to play it on there.   
The joystick matters.

Put it short, how many buttons you have isn't important, Game Design is important!

Kind of.  1 button joystick setups suck and hamper game design. Saying "game design is important!" is such a copout with regards to shit control schemes.  Sometimes, controllers just suck.   See: Intellivision.   No amount of game design saves you from having to put up with that stupid shit.

Creative liberties have to be taken since you don't have the buttons to do what you want, or they are laid out like a shit telephone.

Imagine how much more fun Turrican would've been if you could AIM YOUR GUN.  Like Contra.  If only they had that jump button to free up using up to jump.. lol

Also, I couldn't be competitive even if I wanted, the very rare opportunities that I get to play with someone else, it's always either with people I know, who can't beat me because they don't play as much as I do, or with strangers who I can't beat because they're actually competitive at it so I don't stand a chance, and who said they're gonna coach me or anything?

I guess you could simply call me a "fighting game enthusiast" that label fits me well enough...

Don't you have like a PS3 or something?  You can play online.  I can't promise that it will be fun, though.   It's a completely different game when you're playing with someone else.