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Some questions about playing Efera & Jiliora

Started by EmperorIng, 07/29/2015, 09:14 PM

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EmperorIng

I've been playing this game to decide whether or not I'd like to buy it. I somewhat enjoyed the two hours I spent with the game revved up in Ootake, but I thought I'd ask some questions to get a better handle on progressing through the game.

1) Is there any consequence for attacking NPCs other than that they all rush you and magically gain stats higher than the overworld monsters?

I ask this because the game seems to want you to grind, and at the start of the game monsters give 1 or 2 EXP. Killing the soldiers in the town, however, yields 20ish EXP. Why not? Unless there is some negative consequence (shops not selling you or killing important NPCs). I don't suspect a game this old to have that feature, but I thought I'd ask.

2) Am I stuck playing as one character the whole game? Or is it possible to switch between the two at some point?

3) Thus far I have only found items (little grass leaves?) that replenish magic. Leveling up or going to the HP-restoring house in town does not restore MP either. Are there places that sell or restore MP, or should I play more conservatively?

So far, perhaps thanks to my lack of language knowledge, my estimation of the game isn't as high as the pages of praise the Brothers Duo lavish on the game, but it's not bad (the short range of your slash though, is less enjoyable).

VenomMacbeth

Ditto, I haven't played this game yet but the answers to these questions will help sway my decision to do so.  It looks like a fun action RPG & what's-his-name (the Jimmy Happa Mobie guy) spoke highly of it.
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A Black Falcon

For question 1, I wouldn't know, I'd rather not kill civilians.

For question 2, as far as I can tell the only way to "swap" is to play in the two player co-op mode... of course this requires two humans, though. :)

Question 3... good question.  I presume eventually you can buy the MP-heal herbs?


As for me, I like the game, but it's WAY too grindey.  I mean, all you do is just grind, grind, grind, often without even moving -- grind up on waves of enemies from points you can do that so that you'll be able to move forward, and then repeat.  I think I'm still pretty early in the game, but it';s frustrating so even though it is good I'm still in that stone castle environment.  I just played the game a bit, currently I';m at a boss where the guy chases you around the room and kills you while a row of archers on top of the screen fire down.  No clue how to not die here.  The new scythe-shot magic I got right next to there didn't help. (Did I miss a spell somewhere?  I know you get spells from going to specific rooms.  I have the heal and this one, but there's a blank spot in between the two...)  Bah.

EmperorIng

#3
You gain spells as you level up. There is a Phoenix spell that helps with the fight. However you have to kill the archers first to survive. You have to bait the main soldier into not moving horizontally - if you keep moving up and down he'll do the same.

What helps is watching a play through of the game on niconico, which to my knowledge is the only play through of the game online. The guy however grinds to level 12  at the first screen of the game before taking on the castle. I was at level 9, but I was killing guards to speed up the process.

It's a little ridiculous that NPCs yield a better exp load than the castle full of monsters next door.

NPCs respawn when you leave an area which makes me suspect that it has no effect. I'm not 100% sure though (hence the thread).

A Black Falcon

Quote from: EmperorIng on 07/30/2015, 09:07 AMYou gain spells as you level up.
Really?  So far the two spells I have I got from talking to people in certain rooms, not levelling up.

QuoteThere is a Phoenix spell that helps with the fight.
Where/what level? I'm currently level 5.

QuoteHowever you have to kill the archers first to survive. You have to bait the main soldier into not moving horizontally - if you keep moving up and down he'll do the same.

What helps is watching a play through of the game on niconico, which to my knowledge is the only play through of the game online. The guy however grinds to level 12  at the first screen of the game before taking on the castle. I was at level 9, but I was killing guards to speed up the process.
Level 9+?  This game really is nothing but grind, isn't it... too bad, it's otherwise fun.  But just standing there grinding, I hate that...

CrackTiger

QuoteYou can partake in the madness by butchering townspeople (for lots of experience points in some instances), but their friends will hound you and attempt to murder you in turn. If you're like me, you'll enjoy E&J's dark side; but others may find the game strange and ugly.
http://www.thebrothersduomazov.com/2010/12/efera-and-jiliora.html
Justin the Not-So-Cheery Black/Hack/CrackTiger helped Joshua Jackass, Andrew/Arkhan Dildovich and the DildoPhiles destroy 2 PC Engine groups: one by Aaron Lambert on Facebook, then the other by Aaron Nanto!!! Him and PCE Aarons don't have a good track record together! Both times he blamed the Aarons and their staff in a "Look-what-you-made-us-do?!" manner, never himself nor his deranged/destructive/doxxing toxic turbo troll gang which he covers up for under the "community" euphemism!

EmperorIng

@CrackTiger

The review is the reason I am interested in the game (as per my OP), because it is quite effusive in praise. I suppose if there were any other negative side affects, the Duo brothers might have mentioned them? Either way, I feel far less bad about killing respawning NPCs when the game is so stingy with assistance.

@Black Falcon

I thought I had just gained them through leveling. I am not sure if talking triggered anything. I talked to every NPC in the large village and the old man who triggers that long cutscene (where Jiliora runs off). I think I gained the phoenix spell by leveling up; at least I thought that happened with the Japanese player.

On the plus side camping at a map edge (like the top-left edge in the map south of the town) allowed me to go back and forth killing the random guard and level up very quickly. Other than that you might be stuck camping at that corner of the castle while monsters stream out.

A Black Falcon

Quote from: EmperorIng on 07/31/2015, 12:04 AMI thought I had just gained them through leveling. I am not sure if talking triggered anything. I talked to every NPC in the large village and the old man who triggers that long cutscene (where Jiliora runs off). I think I gained the phoenix spell by leveling up; at least I thought that happened with the Japanese player.
No, not from NPCs in the towns, from rooms out in the levels.  I'm pretty certain the first spell, the healing spell, came from a specific room in the first area, the one before you get to the city.  And then the scythe-shot came from the room next to the boss room I'm stuck at, the one with the soldier and archers in it.  That sure seems to me how I got the two spells I have.

On a related note, does the scythe shot even hurt enemies?  It doesn't seem to do much of anything, against the boss at least...

QuoteOn the plus side camping at a map edge (like the top-left edge in the map south of the town) allowed me to go back and forth killing the random guard and level up very quickly. Other than that you might be stuck camping at that corner of the castle while monsters stream out.
I honestly don't understand why they'd require you to grind as much as you have to in this game.  I want to be able to fight a boss once I can reach it!

NecroPhile

I beat it and don't recall having to excessively grind; maybe a bit above average for rpgs of the day, but I've seen worse.  Are you trying to bull rush your way through the game by vastly overpowering enemies instead of developing effective tactics?

As for killing villagers, I don't think it matters long term.  Leave town and return and they'll forget you're a murderer.  :mrgreen:
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A Black Falcon

#9
Quote from: guest on 07/31/2015, 10:17 AMI beat it and don't recall having to excessively grind; maybe a bit above average for rpgs of the day, but I've seen worse.
Well, most RPGs from back then are horribly grindey, so this really doesn't let the game off the hook at all.  I'm not exactly a fan of most 3rd/4th-gen RPGs, some action-RPGs aside.  Even my favorite 4th-gen RPGs, the Lunar games on Sega CD, the repetition of the endless battles gets old.  And even there, when the games get grindey I stop playing -- this is why I dropped Secret of Mana for SNES midway, for exaple, the grinding required got really tedious.

Think of my favorite console game series, Zelda -- you don't need to turn around and grind up levels after reaching the boss room in a dungeon, you can just go in and fight the boss (provided you've found the required dungeon item).  That's how I'd want a game to play.  But with games like this one or Secret of Mana that regularly gets you killed.  Go level up.

QuoteAre you trying to bull rush your way through the game by vastly overpowering enemies instead of developing effective tactics?
If just trying to get through the levels is a bad tactic then that's the game's fault (for being designed around grind instead of moving forward), but otherwise I'm not sure what you're talking about here.

I mean, I got to this boss I'm at, the one with the row of archers, at level 5, and that's with a bit of grinding -- I had to grind up several levels in order to be high enough level to make it through that long passage at the start of the action area with this boss in it, right after you leave the town.

As for tactics and strategy, this is a fairly simple game so there isn't all that much to it.

NecroPhile

I guess the Ys games suck too, right?  All that grinding!  :roll:

If you're rushing ahead so you get swarmed by enemies instead of fighting 'em one at a time, that's a bad tactic.  If you walk over all the environmental hazards instead of dodging them, that's a bad tactic.  If you run at enemies pell mell, slashing away wildly instead of timing your attacks so only the enemy takes damage, that's a bad tactic.  If you can't figure out how to use magic and items effectively, that's a bad tactic.

Honestly it sounds like this game is too much for you.  Turn it off and go play Dragon Egg or Mystic Quest.
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A Black Falcon

Quote from: guest on 08/01/2015, 03:47 AMI guess the Ys games suck too, right?  All that grinding!  :roll:
Ys... I definitely have mixed feelings for that series.  On the one hand, basically the entire series is almost 100% grind, but on the other hand it's mostly very well-designed and polished grinding, so it's more fun than most.  Still, I have never finished an Ys game.  Hopefully I will eventually, I am partway through several of them.  I like Ys I for the Master System for some reason, that's probably the Ys game I am farthest in.  (Of course, I like Efera & Jiliora too, grinding aside.)

QuoteIf you're rushing ahead so you get swarmed by enemies instead of fighting 'em one at a time, that's a bad tactic.  If you walk over all the environmental hazards instead of dodging them, that's a bad tactic.  If you run at enemies pell mell, slashing away wildly instead of timing your attacks so only the enemy takes damage, that's a bad tactic.  If you can't figure out how to use magic and items effectively, that's a bad tactic.

Honestly it sounds like this game is too much for you.  Turn it off and go play Dragon Egg or Mystic Quest.
Most of the things you say here you really can't do in this game, so there's no need to be so insulting.

Rushing ahead -- You really can't do that in this game, you'll die.  You don't have much health early in the game.  You also can't really move while attacking, attacking causes you to stand still.  This isn't Ys.  Facing more than one enemy at a time is almost certain death unless you have plenty of room to move around in or you're in a place they can't easily get to.  You've got to take your time and find a place you can take them out from without them swarming you.  Maybe the warrior is better at dealing with multiple enemies, but I'm playing the mage.

As for "slashing away wildly instead of timing your attacks so only the enemy takes damage", I don't know what you're talking about there.  Again, you can't just charge enemies, you'll die.  Enemies charge straight at you when they see you, you press down the attack button to attack them when they get in range (while trying to do so from a position where another enemy won't get too close before the first one is dead, since you an only hit one at a time), there isn't much more to it than that.

Environmental hazards - there aren't many of those so far in this game, but of course you avoid them, what are you talking about?  Taking damage is very bad in a game where only a couple of hits kills!

Magic and items - Items heal you.  Magic, one spell heals and the other is a very basic short-range attack.  There is more magic later, but I don't have it yet.  Nothing there of any complexity or challenge to learn.  Easier ways to heal your magic, and more spells from early on, would be things I'd have loved to see in this game, I like magic systems (best of all, for me, is D&D's).


Really, is it so hard to understand?  I expect that once I get to the end of an area in action-RPGs through normal, reasonable play, I should be able to continue on, fight the boss, and progress.  But instead, in games like Ys or Efera & Jiliora, it doesn't work like that at all.  You need to stand around grinding for some time before you are able to compete in each area, or against each boss.  It's a design style that covers for the moderately-sized levels and limited amount of content or puzzles with high jumps in required level between each area or bossfight in the game.  Newer games would at least probably give you alternate tasks to do, quests in the current area and the like, but these early games have none of that. Note how the Niconico playthrough of this game apparently has the guy start by grinding to level 12 right at the start!  It's got very little to do with how quickly you get through an area.  Quickly or slowly, unless you stand around grinding a lot, you'll be far too low level to progress.  I know plenty of people don't mind this, but I always have.

wildfruit

I like this sort of punishment. I'm going to get this and enjoy it.

NecroPhile

Quote from: A Black Falcon on 08/01/2015, 04:57 AMMost of the things you say here you really can't do in this game, so there's no need to be so insulting.
You most certainly can do those things, but you'll pay for it and therefor shouldn't, which was my point.  What do you think "bad tactic" means?!?  Bro, do you even english?

The bulk of your post isn't worth discussing.  Contrary to your repeated claims of you not 'understanding what I'm talking about', you obviously did but just want to argue non-points.

Quote from: A Black Falcon on 08/01/2015, 04:57 AMReally, is it so hard to understand?
Nope, I get that you're an rpg wuss that can't handle a little grinding.  Not being able to beat Ys is a dead giveaway, as those games are quite easy and comparatively light on grinding.  The vast majority of RPGs require grinding to some extent or another anyway, so you whining and crying about it is akin to complaining that there's too many bullets in a bullet hell shewty.
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esteban

Quote from: guest on 08/01/2015, 05:58 AM
Quote from: A Black Falcon on 08/01/2015, 04:57 AMReally, is it so hard to understand?
Nope, I get that you're an rpg wuss that can't handle a little grinding.  Not being able to beat Ys is a dead giveaway, as those games are quite easy and comparatively light on grinding.  The vast majority of RPGs require grinding to some extent or another anyway, so you whining and crying about it is akin to complaining that there's too many bullets in a bullet hell shewty.
THIS.

Falcon, nothing more needs to be said. Ys games are easy, save for an occasional segment (such as a final boss) that might require some genuinely dexterous maneuvers.

Let's move on...
IMGIMG IMG  |  IMG  |  IMG IMG

EmperorIng

Quote from: guest on 07/31/2015, 10:17 AMAre you trying to bull rush your way through the game by vastly overpowering enemies instead of developing effective tactics?

As for killing villagers, I don't think it matters long term.  Leave town and return and they'll forget you're a murderer.  :mrgreen:
Ha, I mentioned decent enough tactics in my strategy for the boss. However, this whole line of inquiry started when, in my initial phases of fighting the boss, I emptied the entirety of my sickle-spell into him and it didn't seem to dent him. Plus, as Falcon intimated, making your way through to the first "dungeon" (the castle outside of town) without a decent level (and the sickle spell) is a foolhardy endeavor. The enemy spawn rate in that corridor, coupled with your short attack range, can be tricky indeed.

Necro, do you recall places that restore your MP? Or buying MP restoring items? At the least I think I will continue to be a murdering bastard to those villagers. It's a good thing they all carry an ample supply of Phoenix Downs or I might feel bad.

It's funny you mention Ys, since if there is usually a place or boss that is too difficult, upping your level once or twice is usually all that you need to do. This is less so in Ys II, which has slightly better boss encounters (it's hard to choose though honestly). But back on topic.

A Black Falcon

#16
Quote from: esteban on 08/01/2015, 06:11 AM
Quote from: guest on 08/01/2015, 05:58 AM
Quote from: A Black Falcon on 08/01/2015, 04:57 AMReally, is it so hard to understand?
Nope, I get that you're an rpg wuss that can't handle a little grinding.  Not being able to beat Ys is a dead giveaway, as those games are quite easy and comparatively light on grinding.  The vast majority of RPGs require grinding to some extent or another anyway, so you whining and crying about it is akin to complaining that there's too many bullets in a bullet hell shewty.
THIS.

Falcon, nothing more needs to be said. Ys games are easy, save for an occasional segment (such as a final boss) that might require some genuinely dexterous maneuvers.

Let's move on...
Sure, Ys games aren't too hard, they're just kind of tedious.  I haven't finished an Ys game not because of challenge, if you level up it's easy enough.  The problem is that I hate doing that.  The almost-entirely-grind-based gameplay gets boring!  My favorite RPGs and action-adventure games, such as the Zelda series or the Baldur's Gate games for PC, have a lot more variety instead of just constant grind.

wildfruit

I don't know. I think there is plenty to keep you engrossed in Ys. Ys IV and III are the first console games I've played through in years without giving up. I felt real compulsion to see them through. Especially IV as a translated labour of love. That felt special. Magical even. Plus they're not that much of a grind fest, you should easily be able to reach max level well before the end without too much enemy bashing.

NecroPhile

Quote from: EmperorIng on 08/01/2015, 12:01 PMNecro, do you recall places that restore your MP? Or buying MP restoring items?
I think the herbs are it.  They can be picked in a few different places (don't they respawn?) or bought from later shopkeeps, but there's not a lot of 'em around.  You need to use magic sparingly, mostly relying on your sword to clear the baddies.
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EmperorIng

Playing a bit more I can confirm two things:

1) you do gain new spells as you level up; not from talking to villagers

2) playing a Jiliora makes a big difference.

To elaborate: Efera is a sorceress, and Jiliora is a warrior, and the stats the two characters have reflect this: Efera has more MP and learns spells but has less strength, whereas Jiliora's techniques have yet to be useful (level 9ish) but her strength far exceeds Efera and can kill monsters far easier.

As an example, my previous questions in this topic revolved around using Efera, whose strength deficiency makes dealing with monsters - particularly the bosses - a pain. Jiliora was able to make it through the castle and kill the boss at level 6 or so.

Now, this still brings up a problem in that Efera couldn't take on the first boss of the game unless I grinded levels until level 10 or so, and that her spells did next to nothing to the boss. I think that's an issue of poor balancing unless I am just playing wrong (and I don't think I am). I suppose I could have feasibly nicked its health away but it would have taken probably 8x longer. While her spells work wonders on local monsters I am less encouraged by its poor performance on monsters that matter (ie, bosses).

reno5

I still have to find time to play this game. Got it a few months back and only tried it for few minutes.

NightWolve

Quote from: A Black Falcon on 08/01/2015, 03:48 PM
Quote from: esteban on 08/01/2015, 06:11 AM
Quote from: guest on 08/01/2015, 05:58 AM
Quote from: A Black Falcon on 08/01/2015, 04:57 AMReally, is it so hard to understand?
Nope, I get that you're an rpg wuss that can't handle a little grinding.  Not being able to beat Ys is a dead giveaway, as those games are quite easy and comparatively light on grinding.  The vast majority of RPGs require grinding to some extent or another anyway, so you whining and crying about it is akin to complaining that there's too many bullets in a bullet hell shewty.
THIS.

Falcon, nothing more needs to be said. Ys games are easy, save for an occasional segment (such as a final boss) that might require some genuinely dexterous maneuvers.

Let's move on...
Sure, Ys games aren't too hard, they're just kind of tedious.  I haven't finished an Ys game not because of challenge, if you level up it's easy enough.  The problem is that I hate doing that.  The almost-entirely-grind-based gameplay gets boring!  My favorite RPGs and action-adventure games, such as the Zelda series or the Baldur's Gate games for PC, have a lot more variety instead of just constant grind.
Hard to believe you were willing to give up on a great Action-RPG story unfolding before you while you listen to one of the greatest soundtracks in videogame history in a series that is relatively easy and only a couple of hours long... You don't have to level up THAT much, I never felt the sense that I had to do it too much and got bored on that basis... There are far worse relative to Ys and I think they're a little too easy, but I enjoy them for the story, music, characters, etc. for the general reasons I like [Action-]RPGs. But hey, each to his own.

T2KFreeker

When Windancer hooked me up with my turbo CD, he sent me this game saying I needed to try it. You know what? This game so rocks. I really haven't beaten it, but this game really is very nice and so worth the price of admission...er, well without checking Evilbay, I'm not sure anymore, but if it's still $12.00 or so, it's surely worth it. Very fun game.
END OF LINE.

A Black Falcon

#23
Quote from: NightWolve on 08/11/2015, 08:44 PMHard to believe you were willing to give up on a great Action-RPG story unfolding before you while you listen to one of the greatest soundtracks in videogame history in a series that is relatively easy and only a couple of hours long... You don't have to level up THAT much, I never felt the sense that I had to do it too much and got bored on that basis... There are far worse relative to Ys and I think they're a little too easy, but I enjoy them for the story, music, characters, etc. for the general reasons I like [Action-]RPGs. But hey, each to his own.
Well, I got Ys I & II for TCD as one of the first games when I got my TCD fixed in mid 2013.  I never did play a lot of the game, though; I started it, was disappointed by the huge size of the border around the screen, the somewhat average graphics, and the low difficulty level when compared to the MUCH harder Sega Master System version that I'd gotten several years prior and was my first experience with Ys (in the TCD game, versus the SMS, you move much faster, which maybe reduces strategic movement in combat; combat seems easier; and bosses are easier for sure, early on at least -- of course the SMS game is only Ys I, not also Ys II), and didn't play it for long before stopping.  I haven't yet gone back to play it; I wanted to finish that SMS version first, but I got stuck because of how tough that version is (you max out at only level 10 so levelling to each new level takes forever, enemies seem harder, etc.) and never did that, so the TCD and PSP versions of Ys I & II are games I have but still haven't gotten to... I should, sometime, sure.  I find the Ys games somewhat overly simplistic (while simple games can be great, overall I do prefer a good balance between simplicity and depth) and definitely don't love the series, but they are good games at least, certainly.

Quote from: guest on 08/03/2015, 11:21 AM
Quote from: EmperorIng on 08/01/2015, 12:01 PMNecro, do you recall places that restore your MP? Or buying MP restoring items?
I think the herbs are it.  They can be picked in a few different places (don't they respawn?) or bought from later shopkeeps, but there's not a lot of 'em around.  You need to use magic sparingly, mostly relying on your sword to clear the baddies.
Ugh, that's pretty annoying.  If you're going to let me play as a mage actually let me use magic as much as I want, darnit!  Make replenishing my magic easy!  I prefer playing as mages or archer class characters in RPGs, and don't like generic-warrior-hero guys nearly as much most of the time, so of course I wanted to play as the mage in this game.  They shouldn't punish you for that by making mana replenishment overly difficult.  The game has plenty of flaws, but at least Magicoal lets you replenish mana easily... (and it also has two player co-op, too, like Efera & Jiliora).

NecroPhile

They should give you unlimited MP so you can do nothing but spam the most powerful spells and heal over and over.  Fuck skill and actually trying!
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NightWolve


A Black Falcon

#26
Quote from: guest on 08/21/2015, 09:35 AMThey should give you unlimited MP so you can do nothing but spam the most powerful spells and heal over and over.  Fuck skill and actually trying!
That's not how a good magic system works and you must know that.  My favorite kind of magic system is that from D&D, ,but that's obviously too complex for a game like this.  Just some normal magic-points system is fine, if you can recover them without too much trouble.  Anytime you can heal your health you also should be able to heal your magic just as easily.  The point of playing as a mage character is to actually be able to use magic, not to be a really weak sword-fighter!  Some traditional turn-based JRPGs also make magic a bit too limited in terms of MP and such, which is always kind of frustrating; I don't like it when an RPG makes it so hard or expensive to recover magic that I'm stuck using normal attacks most of the time with my mage(s).  Sure, magic can be powerful, but the best way to balance that is definitely not to make using it so limited that you can't use it as much as you'd like.  You just need to balance the spell system a bit better.  There are plenty of games out there that do that.

For an example, I recently tried out the two Mahoujin Guru Guru games for SNES, two simple little RPGs on the SNES based on a childrens' anime license.  The games are nice-looking and quite easy, but have some big differences.  Relevant here, in the first game magic spells for your mage character (you have a warrior and a mage in your party) cost a lot of MP, so you can't use many spells at all before running out of magic and having to use a mana-refill item.  It's a bit annoying.  The second game, though, makes the basic spell cost a lot less MP, so you can use it more.  That doesn't make the game way easier though, because they balanced it for that.  It's just more fun, because now you can cast more than like three times early on without running out of MP!

EmperorIng

I might be missing some crucial element here, but playing as Jiliora in that forest with the swarming bugs (outside of the third town) lacks any discernible skill or "tactics." What a lousy area.

Watching a playthrough on niconico, the player uses Efera who gains an invisibility magic that lets her pass through the endlessly spawning bullshit with ease. Jiliora in my play has had no such luck. It's in this section that I really begin to rue how far you have to move to scroll the screen. Fast-moving enemies like these bugs can get multiple cheap shots and lock you into place. What's worse is that either this forest area is supposed to be some stupid "forest of illusion" or it just happens to spawn you in illogical places during screen transitions (e.g. moving down into a new screen > walking up does not return you to the same place!).

esteban

Quote from: EmperorIng on 08/22/2015, 02:15 AMI might be missing some crucial element here, but playing as Jiliora in that forest with the swarming bugs (outside of the third town) lacks any discernible skill or "tactics." What a lousy area.

Watching a playthrough on niconico, the player uses Efera who gains an invisibility magic that lets her pass through the endlessly spawning bullshit with ease. Jiliora in my play has had no such luck. It's in this section that I really begin to rue how far you have to move to scroll the screen. Fast-moving enemies like these bugs can get multiple cheap shots and lock you into place. What's worse is that either this forest area is supposed to be some stupid "forest of illusion" or it just happens to spawn you in illogical places during screen transitions (e.g. moving down into a new screen > walking up does not return you to the same place!).
I think it is supposed to be a "Forest of Confusion" and I believe that the designers wanted you to experiment with different characters/tactics to progress through the game.

I beat this game in early 2000's because a former pcefx member (GUTS) always had recommendations that matched my tastes. :)
IMGIMG IMG  |  IMG  |  IMG IMG

NecroPhile

Yarr, the forest is supposed to be a confusing maze.  I mapped it out as I went, so I'm sure it's not random.

Quote from: A Black Falcon on 08/21/2015, 11:03 PMMore whining about how E&J sucks.
This game is not all that difficult and most certainly isn't broken.  If you don't like it, don't play it.
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T2KFreeker

Quote from: A Black Falcon on 08/21/2015, 02:07 AM
Quote from: NightWolve on 08/11/2015, 08:44 PMHard to believe you were willing to give up on a great Action-RPG story unfolding before you while you listen to one of the greatest soundtracks in videogame history in a series that is relatively easy and only a couple of hours long... You don't have to level up THAT much, I never felt the sense that I had to do it too much and got bored on that basis... There are far worse relative to Ys and I think they're a little too easy, but I enjoy them for the story, music, characters, etc. for the general reasons I like [Action-]RPGs. But hey, each to his own.
Well, I got Ys I & II for TCD as one of the first games when I got my TCD fixed in mid 2013.  I never did play a lot of the game, though; I started it, was disappointed by the huge size of the border around the screen, the somewhat average graphics, and the low difficulty level when compared to the MUCH harder Sega Master System version that I'd gotten several years prior and was my first experience with Ys (in the TCD game, versus the SMS, you move much faster, which maybe reduces strategic movement in combat; combat seems easier; and bosses are easier for sure, early on at least -- of course the SMS game is only Ys I, not also Ys II), and didn't play it for long before stopping.  I haven't yet gone back to play it; I wanted to finish that SMS version first, but I got stuck because of how tough that version is (you max out at only level 10 so levelling to each new level takes forever, enemies seem harder, etc.) and never did that, so the TCD and PSP versions of Ys I & II are games I have but still haven't gotten to... I should, sometime, sure.  I find the Ys games somewhat overly simplistic (while simple games can be great, overall I do prefer a good balance between simplicity and depth) and definitely don't love the series, but they are good games at least, certainly.

Quote from: guest on 08/03/2015, 11:21 AM
Quote from: EmperorIng on 08/01/2015, 12:01 PMNecro, do you recall places that restore your MP? Or buying MP restoring items?
I think the herbs are it.  They can be picked in a few different places (don't they respawn?) or bought from later shopkeeps, but there's not a lot of 'em around.  You need to use magic sparingly, mostly relying on your sword to clear the baddies.
Ugh, that's pretty annoying.  If you're going to let me play as a mage actually let me use magic as much as I want, darnit!  Make replenishing my magic easy!  I prefer playing as mages or archer class characters in RPGs, and don't like generic-warrior-hero guys nearly as much most of the time, so of course I wanted to play as the mage in this game.  They shouldn't punish you for that by making mana replenishment overly difficult.  The game has plenty of flaws, but at least Magicoal lets you replenish mana easily... (and it also has two player co-op, too, like Efera & Jiliora).
Wait, wait, wait, wait, please, I have to stop laughing, you are making my ribs hurt. You just said that you want a balance between easy and hard because too easy is basically Bullshit, but then you just complained that you can't use magic whenever you want and blah, blah, blah, the game is too hard. Ys Book I&II on Turbo CD is too easy and Effera and Jillora is too hard...what kinds of games do you even play? plus to boot, you complain Ys was too easy, but barely even played it. Don't get me wrong, I understand legitimate gripes, but you seem like you are just complaining to complain and disagree with people. I am suspect as to if you have actually even played the games, to be honest. And no, watching videos of them on Youtube doesn't count. There is plenty of strategy to the Turbo CD Ys and yes, it does play a bit different than the Master System version. Just because you are used to a particular version of a game also doesn't make it the end all of said game. For the longest time when I was a kid, my only version of Street Fighter II was the Commodore 64 version. I don't think anyone would ever say it's a much better version because they are used to it over any of the other versions...that's just a cop out too...I'm not even that great at games and can play Effora and Jillora...so again I ask, have you even really played the game that far into it?
END OF LINE.

NecroPhile

Quote from: T2KFreeker on 08/24/2015, 06:34 PM.... you seem like you are just complaining to complain and disagree with people.
Yep, that's BlackFalcon in a nut shell.
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A Black Falcon

#32
Quote from: T2KFreeker on 08/24/2015, 06:34 PMWait, wait, wait, wait, please, I have to stop laughing, you are making my ribs hurt. You just said that you want a balance between easy and hard because too easy is basically Bullshit, but then you just complained that you can't use magic whenever you want and blah, blah, blah, the game is too hard.
Uh, what?  Are you making some false assumption that magic makes games easy or something?  That isn't true at all.

For example, if she had some basic 'free' magic attack instead of a sword as her basic attack (that's mostly the same but just looks different) and you could restore magic as easily as health that'd solve the issues I mentioned with magic in Efera & Jiliora.  I don't think those things would make the game too easy, but it's not like that so who knows.

QuoteYs Book I&II on Turbo CD is too easy and Effera and Jillora is too hard...what kinds of games do you even play?
Wrong, Efera & Jiliora isn't objectively too hard, that's not what I said; it's just annoyingly difficult if you don't grind or enjoy grinding.  If you do grind it's not hard, I just find grinding like that incredibly boring so I don't often do it in games.

Quoteplus to boot, you complain Ys was too easy, but barely even played it.
What I said about Ys I & II (TCD) is certainly just a first-impressions opinion, yes.  I made that clear.  The beginning of the game is a lot easier than the beginning of the SMS version, that's all I said.

QuoteDon't get me wrong, I understand legitimate gripes, but you seem like you are just complaining to complain and disagree with people. I am suspect as to if you have actually even played the games, to be honest..... And no, watching videos of them on Youtube doesn't count.
There's no need for insults like this, come on.  And no, I do not complain just to disagree; I always state my honest opinions on games.  If people disagree with me that's too bad, and I will defend my opinions when criticized, but  I'd never throw around personal attacks like that in this quote here.  "If you don't agree with my opinion you haven't played the game at all"?  What are you talking about? 

To respond to this even though I shouldn't, there are exactly zero gameplay videos of Efera & Jiliora on Youtube, so even if I wanted to watch parts of the game there I couldn't.  In general though I do like watching Youtube gaming videos, but you never know how a game will play until you actually try it for yourself; a video could never replace gameplay.  If I haven't played a game I say so, and if I have played one I say so.

Oh, and most of the time I play TG16 and TCD games -- and it's one of my most-played consoles over the past couple of years, I like it a lot! -- I'm playing platformers or shmups, not other genres.  The system is my favorite console ever for shmups, but definitely not action-RPGs.  Most of the TG16/TCD games I have finished are shmups or platformers, along with a couple of puzzle games, Dungeon Explorer (good game!  I'm a big Gauntlet-series fan, and that's a good Gauntlet clone.), and a few other things.

QuoteThere is plenty of strategy to the Turbo CD Ys and yes, it does play a bit different than the Master System version.
Such as?  I didn't play it enough to see it.

QuoteJust because you are used to a particular version of a game also doesn't make it the end all of said game. For the longest time when I was a kid, my only version of Street Fighter II was the Commodore 64 version. I don't think anyone would ever say it's a much better version because they are used to it over any of the other versions...that's just a cop out too...
Sure, but I don't see how this has much to do with this here... I've never played a Commodore 64, but isn't the C643 version of SFII fairly infamously bad looking compared to the arcade or SNES/Genesis/TG16 versions?  Are you really saying that you'd put SMS v. TCD Ys on that level of difference?

QuoteI'm not even that great at games and can play Effora and Jillora...
I'm sure, you just need to enjoy repetitious grinding and I'm sure you'll get far in it.  I've played a few hours of the game, I don't know exactly how much because it's quite spread out over time, but haven't gone back since somewhat recently getting to that boss I'd need to grind a lot more levels to be competitive against (in the room with the archers, as described earlier in the thread).

Gredler

Quote from: A Black Falcon on 08/21/2015, 11:03 PMIt's just more fun, because now you can cast more than like three times early on without running out of MP!
Perhaps for you, but for me it was always fun saving my mages like WMDs, if you used them all the time where is the fun in that?! I nuke bosses, and save my mages in typical battles.

T2KFreeker

You are correct in saying that Ys on the Master System is slower than the one on the Turbo CD, but there are other differences as well. The collision detection is much better on the Turbo CD version of the game and also, so is the control itself, which is probably why you find the combat to be so much easier on the Turbo CD version. And you are right, The dig with the Youtube comment, while unnecessary, was just me clowning around. It was meant to be humerus...

AND, with many RPG's, yes, too much magic makes the game WAY easy. Action RPG's, or as we called them in the olden days  :wink:, Action Games, specifically can [present a lack of challenge with too much magic depemnding on the magic and power of said spells. Just saying.

Last, but not least, please stop saying Shmup. I hate that so much. They were shooters and the o0nly reason they needed to change it supposedly is because of First Person Shooters becoming a thing and people easily getting lost in the shuffle. If you say you played a lot of shooters on the Turbografx/PC Engine...I am pretty sure nobody here would think you meant Face Ball or Silent Debuggers...  :wink:  That's one thing the younger gamers did I absolutely hate. Shmup...just a stupid sounding name for such an awesome genre. Heel, I'd even rather hear Horizontal Shooter or Vertical shooter over Shmup...BLECH!

Lastly, you should like the Turbografx/PC Engine...everyone should because the system kicks much ass and is really fun to play. My favorite console of all time. Just awesome. Turbob, the Grand Puba of Obey says so!
END OF LINE.

Digi.k

#35
I just got this game recently due to this thread.  I have spent a few hours mostly trying to understand the grinding system and just got to like the 3rd town and only just realized you can enter closed doors like this one which open up those long "voiced" cut scenes...

How am I suppose to be reading the door sign exactly ??

IMG
https://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m113/secretsociety1/fb9cc780-d536-4efa-aa65-16131dd46aa1.jpg

NecroPhile

Quote from: Digi.k on 09/25/2015, 09:33 AMHow am I suppose to be reading the door sign exactly ??
It's a Dark Tower III - The Wastelands tie-in (Grays Open is next door).  :mrgreen:
Ultimate Forum Bully/Thief/Saboteur/Clone Warrior! BURN IN HELL NECROPHUCK!!!

VenomMacbeth

Quote from: T2KFreeker on 08/24/2015, 11:06 PMLast, but not least, please stop saying Shmup. I hate that so much. They were shooters and the o0nly reason they needed to change it supposedly is because of First Person Shooters becoming a thing and people easily getting lost in the shuffle. If you say you played a lot of shooters on the Turbografx/PC Engine...I am pretty sure nobody here would think you meant Face Ball or Silent Debuggers...  :wink:  That's one thing the younger gamers did I absolutely hate. Shmup...just a stupid sounding name for such an awesome genre. Heel, I'd even rather hear Horizontal Shooter or Vertical shooter over Shmup...BLECH!
Oh Jesus not this again.  I'm gonna start calling them "moist panties" instead & really give everyone something to cry about.
Quote from: Gogan on 08/01/2013, 09:54 AMPlay Turbografx.
Play the Turbografx. PLAY
THE TURBOGRAFX!!!!!!

Buh buh buh, I have almost all teh games evar.  I R TEH BESTEST COLLECTR!!

EmperorIng

I should have said this far earlier, but please keep on topic and avoid continued rants about game terminology, Ys difficulty, or whatnot in this thread. I would prefer this discussion be about Efera and Jiliora, since so little documentation for the game is available, and it is tedious to scroll through all these worthless (to the topic) posts. Maybe split off the Ys stuff?

Quote from: Digi.k on 09/25/2015, 09:33 AMI just got this game recently due to this thread.  I have spent a few hours mostly trying to understand the grinding system and just got to like the 3rd town and only just realized you can enter closed doors like this one which open up those long "voiced" cut scenes...
You can enter these closed doors? I didn't know that. Did you just press a button against them? More importantly, did any of them yield a half-decent item?

Digi.k

#39
Quote from: EmperorIng on 09/25/2015, 01:18 PMYou can enter these closed doors? I didn't know that. Did you just press a button against them? More importantly, did any of them yield a half-decent item?
That door is only in the 3rd town. Just walk into it and a cut scene in the bar appears where I had to escort someone through that forest where you get to what appears to be a dead tree at the end of a path section and then you warp somewhere else. 

It only caught my attention because that door kinda reads like "pubes open" but I think it's a spelling mistake for "pub is open"

I managed to reach a destination where the guy thanked me but I am not sure if I obtained anything except maybe money.  He had long brown hair and was wearing purple clothes.Quite possibly he becomes an ally later on ?

Digi.k

#40
Quote from: A Black Falcon on 07/30/2015, 07:35 PM
Quote from: EmperorIng on 07/30/2015, 09:07 AMYou gain spells as you level up.
Really?  So far the two spells I have I got from talking to people in certain rooms, not levelling up.

QuoteThere is a Phoenix spell that helps with the fight.
Where/what level? I'm currently level 5.

QuoteHowever you have to kill the archers first to survive. You have to bait the main soldier into not moving horizontally - if you keep moving up and down he'll do the same.

What helps is watching a play through of the game on niconico, which to my knowledge is the only play through of the game online. The guy however grinds to level 12  at the first screen of the game before taking on the castle. I was at level 9, but I was killing guards to speed up the process.
Level 9+?  This game really is nothing but grind, isn't it... too bad, it's otherwise fun.  But just standing there grinding, I hate that...
ok So I started this from scratch.

Efera starts off with a healing spell and it seems like she gets a new spell around level 4, level 8, level 12 and since right now I am at level 14 I am assuming the next spell will be learned around level 16 etc. 

so far I have found 3 types of shops.  I am assuming
P= protection; purchase armor
IMG

M=Medical, purchase health pots.
IMG


W=weapons.
IMG

To buy something in these shops just walk over the purchase square and you automatically buy whatever the vendors are selling.  You can do this multiple times when buying health pots.
IMG

Digi.k


esteban

Quote from: Digi.k on 09/25/2015, 05:09 PMcrap*
That sums up Bloody Roar quite succinctly.

What about those pubes?
IMGIMG IMG  |  IMG  |  IMG IMG

Digi.k

#43
Quote from: esteban on 09/25/2015, 05:57 PM
Quote from: Digi.k on 09/25/2015, 05:09 PMcrap*
That sums up Bloody Roar quite succinctly.

What about those pubes ?
t'was a duplicate post Mr Este'

EDIT:

Regarding that forest has anyone got a guide for it ?  I am currently stuck although I am trying to translate the following message which I assume is regarding said forest of confusion..

IMG
https://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m113/secretsociety1/IMG_0166.jpg


I am hoping that the above kinda translates to:


The first of the tree either,

 Right from the next tree, left, left, right, left, right

 Please pass through to left