Rerelease of the Turbo Duo...

takashirose · 07/18/2006, 12:43 PM

I was thinking whether it would be cool for NEC/Hudson to re-release the Turbo Duo as a budgeted system, around $50 for a new one. They could maybe uprgrade it a little by putting a 16-bit CPU with the SuperGrafx graphics chip and call it the SuperDuo. The SuperDuo can play all of our past Turbo Duo and Grafx games. It could be a cheap way for the company to restart the TurboGrafx/PC-Engine brand name. And once they have a strong following, maybe release something brand new. It's not an ambitious idea because the system is cheap and games could be no more than $15-$20, or even lower since some games will be on the Wii. I am not talking about a budgeted system like those 30 Atari games in one system deal that they are doing now because then people can not buy the other games. It would be great for the people who never owned a Duo. It might sell better in Japan, but who knows how the American people will take it since some games will be on the Wii. What are your thoughts on this?

Seldane · 07/18/2006, 01:58 PM

It would most certainly be considered a joke and would put NEC on the brink of bankrupcy. ;)

Seriously, even if Nintendo did this with the SNES, it would be a total flop.

Odonadon · 07/18/2006, 02:12 PM

I have to agree with Seldane. If NEC/Hudseon did something like this, I would consider it an insult.

It would be cool to have such a device I degree, but releasing it to the public would be a bad idea

And to be honest, I am a fan of the system and it's games mainly because it was great at the time. I'd seriously hate to see 3D versions of Dungeon Explorer or Bonk and I think that might ruin the system(s) images.

OD

grendelrt · 07/18/2006, 02:27 PM

Quote from: OdonadonI'd seriously hate to see 3D versions of Dungeon Explorer or Bonk and I think that might ruin the system(s) images.

OD

you happened to pick two of the games that have remakes in 3d. Bonk was remade for the Cube with 3d graphics in a 2d plane. Dungeon Explorer is being remade for the PSP and 360.

td741 · 07/18/2006, 03:08 PM

Anyway, I figure it would be safer for them to support the Wii VC and possibly the XBox Live Arcade.

It would be neat if the Wii's VC could support in any/all CD games (CD/SCD/ACD/ CD1.0) and possibly have some sort of HuCard reader (HuCard to SD/USB for use with the VC) so people would be able to play their games from the original media instead of a download. That could conceivably be less of a financial risk. Then again, for no effort they can have us pay to download the games.

As a side note: the 2.5 D versions of Adventure Island, Star Soldier and Bonk for the GameCube are pretty good! I've even got the PSP port of StarSoldier (pretty much like the GC) . ;)

takashirose · 07/18/2006, 05:32 PM

A hu card reader would be cool. Who said anything about 3-d remakes. I meant that they just re-release the system that plays the old games and re-release the games for it. Didn't you read that it should have a 16 bit cpu with the SuperGrafx Graphics card. Thus making it incapable of doing 3-D grpahics like the Gamecube. I just ordered a new Turbo Duo, so it would not matter to me. I was just thinking about the people that are missing out on the system by buying pretty, but dull games. I saw the screenshots of the Bonk remake on the gamecube. They looked nice, but I like the original sprites. I appreciate your honest opinion. How about NEC/Hudson making a new portable game system against the DS? I'm just asking. I was curious about how you guys thought. Thanks.

DragonmasterDan · 07/18/2006, 06:13 PM

Quote from: SeldaneSeriously, even if Nintendo did this with the SNES, it would be a total flop.

I'm not so sure about that, think about how well Famiclones sell to this day, I see Famiclones even in major chain stores here and there. A Super Famiclone might not be a terrible product though it would obviously be a niche product. If Nintendo released it themselves I'm not convinced it would be as horrible of a failure as you might think, but they obviously can't "think big" with it.

T2KFreeker · 07/18/2006, 06:21 PM

Well, truthfully here, I think that it would work in a generalized way in the fan community. Truthfully, there is a huge ammount of people still looking for Turbo Duo units. I know that I still want one, even though I have the Turbo Grafx completed, I still don't have a duo, and would really go for paying what you suggested, or even up to $100.00 for it, and still feel it is a much better deal than most of the stuff available as current generation.

takashirose · 07/18/2006, 06:43 PM

I saw thos Famiclones on ebay. I really don't like them because they look ugly and lack the original controller. I was just curious about an official re-release, at the least a niche market. I don't like the Flashback units that have 30 Atari games because it is limited. I thought I was the only one who thought it was sort of an idea.

If you want a nice Turbo Duo with a box and everything, I found one for $400 on Ebay:

eBay Turbo Duo system

Keep on posting if interested.

DragonmasterDan · 07/18/2006, 07:02 PM

Quote from: takashiroseI saw thos Famiclones on ebay. I really don't like them because they look ugly and lack the original controller. I was just curious about an official re-release, at the least a niche market. I don't like the Flashback units that have 30 Atari games because it is limited. I thought I was the only one who thought it was sort of an idea.

If you want a nice Turbo Duo with a box and everything, I found one for $400 on Ebay:

eBay Turbo Duo system

Keep on posting if interested.

Best Buy and GameCrazy were selling Mesiah Famiclones earlier in the year (which take original NES controllers). Frys Electronics had another one for sale. There's a lot of different Famiclones floating around now.

guyjin · 07/18/2006, 07:17 PM

Am I the only one who remembers the majesco genesis 3 and game gear?

:

TurboXray · 07/18/2006, 07:38 PM

Quotea 16 bit cpu...

Why the hell would it need a 16 bit CPU? Its original CPU is almost twice as fast as the SNES 16bit cpu

8,16,32bits means nothing, MIPS means everything.

As far as re-release similar to the famiclones, someone is actually making a PCE system on a chip via FPGA - though I don't know if the source will be released.

takashirose · 07/18/2006, 07:56 PM

The reason for the 16 bit cpu is because they had trouble with the 8 bit cpu in the Supergrafx because it couldn't take all of the advanced graphics. That's all. It's as simple as that. The Supergrafx was underutilized because of that and there were only 5 games. My idea was a SuperDuo, which is a SuperGrafx and a Duo in one, which equals the ultimate PC-Engine/Turbografx system. I am just using my imagination as a fan. If they release a Turgrafx clone, I am not buying it because it's not official and usually of low quality.

T2KFreeker · 07/18/2006, 08:00 PM

Quote from: takashiroseI saw thos Famiclones on ebay. I really don't like them because they look ugly and lack the original controller. I was just curious about an official re-release, at the least a niche market. I don't like the Flashback units that have 30 Atari games because it is limited. I thought I was the only one who thought it was sort of an idea.

If you want a nice Turbo Duo with a box and everything, I found one for $400 on Ebay:

eBay Turbo Duo system

Keep on posting if interested.

Yeah, I would buy that one, but again, this is why I do not own a DUO, they are a little more expensive than I waht to spend right now on a machine. Besides, I know that this DUO will sell well, especially since I know Jay and we talk quite a bit!

Odonadon · 07/18/2006, 11:30 PM

QuoteLaughing you happened to pick two of the games that have remakes in 3d. Bonk was remade for the Cube with 3d graphics in a 2d plane. Dungeon Explorer is being remade for the PSP and 360.

I was trying to be ironic

QuoteWho said anything about 3-d remakes. I meant that they just re-release the system that plays the old games and re-release the games for it.

I originally read your first post as this being an idea to help get NEC back in the gaming ring and develop another system. I'm sure you had something about that in there

QuoteTruthfully, there is a huge ammount of people still looking for Turbo Duo units.

Be careful with that statement. Aside from a few forums and fan sites here and there, I don't personally know a single person who is interested in picking up a Turbo Duo. Granted there are a few here and there, but when you compare that number against the amount of people buying XBoxs and the like, "huge" is absolutely the wrong term

I maintain that if this were to happen it would flop miserably because there just isn't public demand for it.

OD

TurboXray · 07/19/2006, 12:15 AM

Quote from: takashiroseThe reason for the 16 bit cpu is because they had trouble with the 8 bit cpu in the Supergrafx because it couldn't take all of the advanced graphics. That's all. It's as simple as that.

That rumor is really annoying (not directed at you, though). That misunderstanding came from the fact that the SGX was supposed to get a CPU upgrade as well as a graphics upgrade - the gripe was that it didn't get the CPU upgrade, not that the CPU was too slow to handle the extra graphics.

Trust me, out of the 120,000 cycles the CPU has in 0.01667 of a second(1 frame), I'm sure it can spare 30 cycles to update the additional background layer's position (i.e. multi-plane parallax scrolls). Actually, with the second video display processor having an added 64k of vram, you remove a lot of the overhead of dynamic tile/bat updating on the secondary scroll/sprites.

As far as 16bit CPUs being faster than 8bit CPUs: the Genesis 16bit(internally 32 bit!) 68000 @7.5mhz clocks in at 1.14 MIPS( million instructions per second) while the PCE 8bit HuC6280 @ 7.16mhz clocks in @ 1.4 MIPS.

If anything the SNES was under powered in the CPU department.

DragonmasterDan · 07/19/2006, 12:46 AM

Quote from: guyjinAm I the only one who remembers the majesco genesis 3 and game gear?
:

The Game Gear 2 and Saturn 2 were never released on the Market. Masjesco had the rights to release both of those and made mock ups but never released them to the market in the late 90s. I was actually really looking forward to the Saturn 2 since I uhhh... collect Saturns...

The Genesis 3 did moderately well for its price though it had problems with some games.

Buster D · 07/19/2006, 03:34 AM

There's already a Mega Drive/Genesis clone out in Asia and in specialty stores in Japan. It's conceivable that a PC Engine clone will surface eventually, but making it capable of playing CD games as well as HuCards/TurboChips would make it considerably more expensive to manufacture than the clones of the other systems, which just play cartridges. Plus the PC Engine wasn't very popular outside of Japan, so that would limit a clone's potential market share.

It'd be nice, though. Perhaps some small Japanese company will attempt it someday, they could probably make enough money if it was targeted at the Japanese market.

Seldane · 07/19/2006, 08:25 AM

Consider this: the Turbo Grafx was a flop when it was new (less than five million units sold)--imagine it being released today. They'd probably sell something like ten units. All to members of this site.

takashirose · 07/19/2006, 09:08 AM

Look how many Flashback Atari units they have sold. Of course everyone recognizes the the Atari name, but still if NEC would reintroduce the TurboGrafx/PC-Engine it would be nice for the people who don't have them, and TZD would have more business. This is not a new system. Just something that everyone could afford. CD drives aren't that expensive nowadays because everyone is using DVDs and Bluray. SInce there is practically no new R&D for a re-release it would only cost them for the marketing. This is something simple. The same thing goes with Sega. They should look into re-releasing a system before they want to make a new system like the Dreamcast and Saturn for example. If that proves successful Sega could allow backwards compatability on those systems that people bought, which would give them a reson to buy it. It's kind of like a Trojan horse.

takashirose · 07/19/2006, 09:09 AM

I meant backwards compatablity on a new system that is not a re-release.

grahf · 07/19/2006, 11:13 AM

There are already PC Engine clones out there, so i think we may see a cd-capable clone eventually.
Now if NEC/Hudson were to rerelease a system, they would do well to make it web-only. There would me hardly any overhead that way. Save manufacturing costs, it would be hard for them to lose money on it. How well it would sell is a matter for debate. Im sure all the major game sites would cover the hell out of it, but it would never be a huge seller.

takashirose · 07/19/2006, 11:52 AM

I personally don't like clones because they are not of high quality. And because it is not from the original people. If it breaks people would say that the turbo sucks even though it is not made by NEC, but this clone maker.

Seldane · 07/19/2006, 11:53 AM

Has anyone ever seen a cd-based clone?

None of the old cd systems were successful, so I doubt anybody would make one. The only clones out there are of successful systems that are cheap to pirate (FC, MD, etc).

DragonmasterDan · 07/19/2006, 02:08 PM

Quote from: SeldaneConsider this: the Turbo Grafx was a flop when it was new (less than five million units sold)--imagine it being released today. They'd probably sell something like ten units. All to members of this site.

I'm not sure that 5 million units sold is a "flop" considering the gaming industry at the time. Yes in North America the platform came in third place but the term flop is a bit overboard. Systems like 3DO, Jaguar, Game.Com, and N-Gage were flops. The TurboGrafx had market recognition and stayed around for a while. That's hardly a flop

takashirose · 07/19/2006, 03:23 PM

A flop to me is a system with no good games. Though the PS 1,2, and 3 will have good games they somehow are not like TurboGrafx, sega saturn, and Dreamcast. Do you guys know what I mean?

T2KFreeker · 07/19/2006, 03:44 PM

Quote from: takashiroseA flop to me is a system with no good games. Though the PS 1,2, and 3 will have good games they somehow are not like TurboGrafx, sega saturn, and Dreamcast. Do you guys know what I mean?

I agree, as it bugs me that people try and use the word "Flop" in a very general. Example, the Jaguar has a HUGE cult following right now and a heavy home brew community. It may have flopped when it was commercially released, but it is bigger now than it ever was. The 3DO, on the other hand, is about as dead as it can get, so it can sit in that cattegory, does this make sense?

takashirose · 07/19/2006, 05:05 PM

I want to get a Jaguar, but I'm not saying it's along the lines of the TurboGrafx/PC-Engine regarding game quality. Though who can argue about Raiden and ALien vs. Predator, and Rayman and Bubsy. There were some good games.

DragonmasterDan · 07/19/2006, 05:59 PM

Quote from: takashiroseI want to get a Jaguar, but I'm not saying it's along the lines of the TurboGrafx/PC-Engine regarding game quality. Though who can argue about Raiden and ALien vs. Predator, and Rayman and Bubsy. There were some good games.

Yeah there's some decent stuff, the original tempest 2000 is still great ( I own Tempest 3000 but not a Nuon to play it on). I have the CD add on as well but unfortunately I don't have any particularly fun games for it.

MottZilla · 07/19/2006, 07:11 PM

I would love to see NEC/Hudson do some kind of limited reproduction all via the internet. I would totally buy a SGX/DUO/ACD hybrid system and I'm sure many others would too. Obviously the only way to do it, is via the internet in a limited production run because there is not a chance in hell that it would work through normal retail stores.

But I think for people like us and other retro gamers a hybrid system that is brand new freshly manufactured would certainly appeal to us. Then perhaps do some reprints of some titles. Certainly in limited numbers and via the internet it wouldn't be a loss.

Then who knows, maybe some retrogamers that are also into homebrew development could actually put out new games. But I don't think anyone's foolish enough to think you could put this in stores like Best Buy. The general consumer can't appreciate such things. They just buy what MTV or someone else tells them.

Anyway, as silly as it seems, I would buy a SGX/DUO/ACD hybrid, and I'd love to see versions of games of that time developed for it. Perhaps a Mortal Kombat (1992/1993, not MK2) SGX & ACD port. The added graphics capability of SGX plus the memory of the ACD and storage/audio of the CD. That sounds like a nice potential port to me. Even though it does seem silly considering I have a Mortal Kombat arcade PCB board about 3 feet from me right now. But hey, I'm a retrogamer and it's fun to dream right?

Odonadon · 07/19/2006, 11:43 PM

QuoteThey'd probably sell something like ten units. All to members of this site.

Exactly!

QuoteI would totally buy a SGX/DUO/ACD hybrid system and I'm sure many others would too.

Why would you want to buy a clone when you have the original equipment at home already?

OD

DragonmasterDan · 07/20/2006, 12:31 AM

Quote from: OdonadonWhy would you want to buy a clone when you have the original equipment at home already?

OD

It's newer, it has a chance of lasting longer even if it's made more cheaply just due to differences in technology.

jlued686 · 07/20/2006, 05:37 PM

I talked to the guy behind the Generation NEX and he said that to get just the mold for the casing cost him $50k! I'm guessing that, at least in the states where the Turbo didn't have a fraction of the NES's following, doing something like this independently would be a hell of a loss financially.

As far as Hudson or NEC doing it...I don't really see what advantage it would have for them; especially when they can already make more cash with far less risk on the Virtual Console.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see it. But I just doubt the practicality of it.

takashirose · 07/20/2006, 05:55 PM

I know. I know. I really don't need a re-release because I have a Turbo Duo. I hope they release a lot of games through the Virtual Console. I hope that the rumours of a completed Bonk RPG for the Virtual Console will come true. I wonder why they cancelled it even for Japan where the PC-Engine was more popular?

OldRover · 07/22/2006, 06:02 AM

50K!?!?!?! Where the hell did he go??? Either someone's giving him the major shaft or he's full of shit because that price is above staggering.

jlued686 · 07/22/2006, 04:28 PM

I don't know, man. That's just what he told me. You can hear the interview here:

_{► /podcasts/06.05.2006.mp3}

OldRover · 07/22/2006, 04:35 PM

Hrm...I dunno man...when I had the case for Leviathan quoted, the mould was only $3500 (single-colour, and a rather complex design too). I could have gotten a two-colour set for $6800 (they make two moulds for the two plastics you want, then the two opposing pieces are snapped together). $50k would be enough to buy 6 moulds AND make about 10k units. Plasticwork is not terribly expensive.

Seldane · 07/22/2006, 05:35 PM

Quote from: takashiroseI hope that the rumours of a completed Bonk RPG for the Virtual Console will come true. I wonder why they cancelled it even for Japan where the PC-Engine was more popular?

Ha ha, believe me--that will never happen! Wow, I wonder who would start such a rumor?

grahf · 07/22/2006, 11:10 PM

I would love to try the bonk rpg beta.. if there even is one... ?

JoshTurboTrollX · 07/22/2006, 11:26 PM

I voted no.

Would be cool to have one of the TV games TurboGrafx Collections er something...

TurboSage

OldRover · 07/22/2006, 11:47 PM

Ugh...you wanna talk about crap quality, there you go...I bought the C64 TV games stick and it broke within 20 minutes (got my money back at least). Also played the MK one a couple of times while I was working, and wow did it suck. I'd hate to see the PCE degraded in such a way.

TR0N · 07/23/2006, 12:18 AM

Hmm i guess... licenese it out to a company and give it a limted edition run.

Odonadon · 07/23/2006, 01:26 AM

Quote from: OldRoverUgh...you wanna talk about crap quality, there you go...I bought the C64 TV games stick and it broke within 20 minutes (got my money back at least). Also played the MK one a couple of times while I was working, and wow did it suck. I'd hate to see the PCE degraded in such a way.

Nod, in what way did the MK one suck? I've always wanted to pick up one of these little units but have always been afraid of just that - it breaking after 20 minutes of use.

QuoteHmm i guess... licenese it out to a company and give it a limted edition run.

After reading Nod's comments, I'm gonna have to go with a big ol' "hell no" to that

OD

OldRover · 07/23/2006, 07:01 AM

That's just it, OD...the thing is of such low-quality that it breaks way too easily. The companies that make these cheesy little TV games don't care if they last ten minutes or not, they're trying to cash in on the retro craze as cheaply as possible. The store I messed with the MK game at (it was one of the KB Toys locations my wife and I used to service) must have gone through twelve controllers (in a time span of two weeks! that's almost 1 a day!) before they decided "to hell with it!" and stopped offering it for demo. They're just made so bloody cheaply!

Oh yeah...and I almost forgot to mention that the MK one wasn't quite complete...there were quite a few differences that any hardcore MK gamer would notice and be irritated by.

takashirose · 07/24/2006, 09:58 AM

Dear god not a TV game TurboGrafx. Never in my life would I want something like that. I hate those plug and play systems with 30 built in games and no carttridge port. That wasn't what I meant. I would by a re-release by NEC/Hudson even if I have a Turbo Duo. I think the original is made of high quality. The re-releases if done incorrectly are of low quality.

esteban · 07/24/2006, 01:10 PM

Quote from: OldRoverThat's just it, OD...the thing is of such low-quality that it breaks way too easily. The companies that make these cheesy little TV games don't care if they last ten minutes or not, they're trying to cash in on the retro craze as cheaply as possible. The store I messed with the MK game at (it was one of the KB Toys locations my wife and I used to service) must have gone through twelve controllers (in a time span of two weeks! that's almost 1 a day!) before they decided "to hell with it!" and stopped offering it for demo. They're just made so bloody cheaply!

Oh yeah...and I almost forgot to mention that the MK one wasn't quite complete...there were quite a few differences that any hardcore MK gamer would notice and be irritated by.

Ahhh, thanks for the scoop. I bought an Intellivision "plug n play" and although it hasn't broken, the controller doesn't even attempt to re-create the feel of the original Intellevision controllers... so it just doesn't feel as good as it should have.

It's a novelty device, plain and simple.

And I think you are 100% correct about these companies wanting to make a cheap buck

takashirose · 07/27/2006, 11:23 AM

I know what you mean about those novelty systems. I don't want the Turbo systems going in that direction.

It would be cool if NEC restarted in the hardware industry by making a portable system that is all new that plays huCards for backwards compatability and its new native format. OF course the handheld market is dominated by Nintendo, which is a partner with NEC and Hudson in certain fields. The rumoured Microsoft portable gaming system is a nice idea, but I want a portable gaming system and not a portable media system that plays games next to a hundred other things.

Rerelease of the Turbo Duo...

Should the Turbo Duo be re-released as a budgeted system to restart the brand name and spread the joy?