Atlantean: Deep Blue's Sister!

[Arkhan Asylum]

Work on this has recommenced in my basement command center.

I want to ask all of you a few things before I proceed.  The most important one being the poll question.   I'm not going to fiddledick with 6 button control noodling if only like 2 people even want that.

Ok maybe that's all I wanted to ask.

TO CLARIFY:   THIS IS FOR AN OPTIONAL 6 BUTTON SUPPORT.   ITS ALREADY GOT THE CONTROL SCHEME MENTIONED BELOW.  I'VE BOLDED IT NOW, INCASE YOU MISSED IT.

Any questions?




Right now, I am working on getting the landers to lock in and grab the sea monkey people in a nice looking manner.  



Also: Before anyone asks: I lessened the numbers of enemies as opposed to real defender for 2 reasons:

1) These are 16x16 sprites.  If you put as many things on screen as Defender, you can barely move.  The sprites in Defender are half the size of Atlantean.
2) We have to keep it sane for the given platform!

It also means I couldn't do particle effects.

But it also works out because I am fairly certain particle effects underwater would look kind of dumb.

[Nazi NecroPhile]

I demand mouse support!!!!!!1!!11!!!!one!!

I can't imagine why such a game would need six buttons, and you haven't explained what the extra buttons would be used for, so I voted 'no'.

[Arkhan Asylum]

I demand mouse support!!!!!!1!!11!!!!one!!

I can't imagine why such a game would need six buttons, and you haven't explained what the extra buttons would be used for, so I voted 'no'.

Oh. Good point.

The original Defender in arcades had an unorthodox control layout that Defender fans love.

You have:

Thrust
Reverse
Shoot Shit Dead
Bombs
Hyperspace

the Joystick only moves you up and down.

so you see, it would require 6 button controllering.  

Right now, my control scheme is like this:

DPad: thrust/reverse/this is better than the Defender buttons
II: Shoot shit Dead
I: Bombs
Select: Hyperspace Warp!


wait, I suppose its actually hyperocean warp.  We're not in space.

[Nando]

Also: Before anyone asks: I lessened the numbers of enemies as opposed to real defender for 2 reasons:

1) These are 16x16 sprites.  If you put as many things on screen as Defender, you can barely move.  The sprites in Defender are half the size of Atlantean.
2) We have to keep it sane for the given platform!

How many can you have on screen now without slow down?


I think the current controller setup should work fine. Image Fight has the speed mapped to the Select button.

I choose corndogs!

It also means I couldn't do particle effects.

But it also works out because I am fairly certain particle effects underwater would look kind of dumb.

Sort off:

[Arkhan Asylum]

It's hard to gauge slowdown right now because its still in the pre-optimization stage.   The code is pretty tight so far, and thankfully most of the enemies in Defender aren't too bright.  They're just a nice mix of different behaviors that compliment each other.

That slow moving bomber seems retarded til he plants a bomb and goes away... and you then have to fly around the bombs to avoid the swarmers and baiters. 

but, I anticipate having like 20+ sprites on screen at once with no slowdown.   More if you include the parallax-coral/rooftops.  They ARE sprites, even if they don't do much for you.

Not because this is the speed limit, but because anything else on screen and the game will just be a giant mess on screen, and not be very fun to play because you will just crash into shit cheaply.

[Nazi NecroPhile]

Ah, I see.  I still vote no, as using buttons instead of the d-pad seems confusing to my simple mind.  I'm not against having the option, though, just as long as a 6-button pad isn't mandatory.

[Arkhan Asylum]

just as long as a 6-button pad isn't mandatory.

It would never be mandatory.  Ever.

I'm just gauging interest in the 6 button feature.    If like 2 people want it, sorry, it's probably not going to get put in. 

[Nando]

just as long as a 6-button pad isn't mandatory.

It would never be mandatory.  Ever.

I'm just gauging interest in the 6 button feature.    If like 2 people want it, sorry, it's probably not going to get put in. 

Oh, ok. Yeah I would be down for that option and corndogs!

[OldRover]

The poll is misleading. No one "requires" 6-button support, so even people who think it'll be nice to have are still going to vote "no" because they don't require it.

And I feel sorry for those fingerless people who can't eat corndogs.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Someone might require 6-button support and refuse to play it otherwise.

[spenoza]

Would you consider including an option for more orthodox, non-defender controls as well? I'm OK with Defender's scheme, but sometimes it's nice to just hit left to go left.

Instead of particle effects, you could have a little cloud of bubbles sprite that floats up to the surface when an enemy is killed. It if is discreet it shouldn't clutter much and you wouldn't need to do collision for it.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Would you consider including an option for more orthodox, non-defender controls as well? I'm OK with Defender's scheme, but sometimes it's nice to just hit left to go left.

... You already played Atlantean, and saw this exact control scheme you speak of, in action, last year lol.


I guess I need to clarify.   I'll edit the original post.

Instead of particle effects, you could have a little cloud of bubbles sprite that floats up to the surface when an enemy is killed. It if is discreet it shouldn't clutter much and you wouldn't need to do collision for it.

There are already ambient bubble sprites for fun.  Everything explodes when it dies.   I have 0 intention of figuring out how to shoehorn in some new graphical happenings.   I'm already out of sprites because of the parallax

[spenoza]

You are spriting it up.

Also, I believe there is some miscommunication over the whole controls thing, so I'll just see you at the CCAG in June. I don't remember how it played, only how it looked.  : )

[Arkhan Asylum]

You just move the Dpad around to fly.  Left is reverse if youre flying right, and right is reverse if you're flying left!




Its standard, sensible DPad use.   

[touko]

ok, if i vote for 6 buttons, do you post a playable demo ???  

[Arkhan Asylum]

No.

and if the majority don't vote for 6 buttons, im not even bothering to put it in, lol


I wasn't planning on putting it, and will only do so if enough 6 button-fans can present me a reasonable explanation as to why they would hate playing with the d-pad and it would ruin their lives forever

[touko]

eeeh guys, vote for 6 buttons, this is cool, I for blasts, II for bombs,III for bombs,IV for bombs,V for bombs,VI for bombs,and VII for bombs, very usefull  

You also use select to choose bombs type .
it's also usefull for those who prefer blasts on button 6 

[Arkhan Asylum]

eeeh guys, vote for 6 buttons, this is cool, I for blasts, II for bombs,III for bombs,IV for bombs,V for bombs,VI for bombs,and VII for bombs, very usefull   

You also use select to choose bombs type .
it's also usefull for those who prefer blasts on button 6 

Whoa whoa, button VII? 

what the hell controller are you using?!

[spenoza]

I think on the standard PCE controller buttons I and II should be relabeled IX and IIX, because X makes everything more awesome. How will Atlantean be upgraded to take advantage of this new awesomeness?

[Arkhan Asylum]

It's the awesomeness that prompts this controller.


I'll just sell each copy with a TurbobPad that says  ATLANTEAN PAD on it.

spraypainted blue.

[TheClash603]

It's the awesomeness that prompts this controller.


I'll just sell each copy with a TurbobPad that says  ATLANTEAN PAD on it.

spraypainted blue.

Pre-Order bonus?  DO IT!!!

[Nando]

It's the awesomeness that prompts this controller.


I'll just sell each copy with a TurbobPad that says  ATLANTEAN PAD on it.

spraypainted blue.

Yes!

[Keranu]

How about support for that analog flight stick?

[Arkhan Asylum]

How about support for that analog flight stick?

great idea, lol

[VestCunt]

Corndogs.  I don't want 6-button support, but could you include a feature that tells me whether a 6-button pad is connected? Like the Vasteel 2 bios screen?

Thanks!

[touko]

Whoa whoa, button VII?  

what the hell controller are you using?!

LOL, that's the magic of copy/paste

How about support for that analog flight stick?

Yes should be great with 3d glasses, 100$, 1 mars, and one fella... . 

[Arkhan Asylum]

Corndogs.  I don't want 6-button support, but could you include a feature that tells me whether a 6-button pad is connected? Like the Vasteel 2 bios screen?

Thanks!

What purpose would this serve? lol

[Arkhan Asylum]

An update:

I played some Defender yesterday at the arcade that's about an hour away..

After giving it some thought and fiddling, there are some other aspects of Defender that I may not end up putting into Atlantean, again, mostly for screen-clutter reasons.   Defender had a nice big bitmapped screen with tiny-tiny graphics.   In console-o-fying it, this advantage is lost unless I do like Defender did on NES and keep the art all tiny and shit, and to be honest, if that were the case, I wouldn't even bother making the game. 

The one glaring thing I noticed is this:

Being able to shoot the humanoids.  The art is all too big and spritey now.  You're likely going to nail the humanoids way too much, especially if you're cruising the surface of the map.   

I am going to see how the difficulty is without being able to, and if it feels right, I probably won't add it in.  I really do get the feeling that having it in place would make the game un-fun.  The humans would be dead sooner than the arcade game since the screen-proportions are way different.  Since this is Defender inspired and not a 1:1 clone, I think it will be OK.   

The advantage to not doing this means I can make the abduction-setup look cooler.    The sprites can overlap.  It will look neat.


I understand that shooting the humanoids adds various depths to the game (shoot them all, kill the mutants with the reverse glitch)... and it increases the difficulty since you have to aim good when shooting the Landers...

so, does anyone have any input on this?   

[roflmao]

I know this is probably heresy, but I've always found the original Defender very clunky and awkward to control, making it frustratingly difficult to play.  It sounds like your tweaks will make the game much more enjoyable, so I'm all for it!

[Arkhan Asylum]

I am going for a more streamlined, console playability style.

It will still have the slippery movement, but I am really trying to make it tight and smooth.

Sounds kinky. 

[spenoza]

Well, if you are eliminating the radar/mini-map so that we can't tell what's going on off-screen, then that should certainly off-balance the advantage of not having to worry about killing the humans. Might be nice to have SOME kind of indicator when humans are abducted as to which way is closer to get to them, left or right, though.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Well, if you are eliminating the radar/mini-map so that we can't tell what's going on off-screen, then that should certainly off-balance the advantage of not having to worry about killing the humans. Might be nice to have SOME kind of indicator when humans are abducted as to which way is closer to get to them, left or right, though.

I am not deleting the radar. 

[spenoza]

Whoops. I skimmed a paragraph REALLY quickly and came out with completely the wrong meaning. NM.

[Arkhan Asylum]

www.aetherbyte.com  << check it out

or



I think I can hotlink these from BlogSpot

[touko]

excellent ark 

[Nando]

Fucking sweet dude!

[Arkhan Asylum]

I would have flown around a bit too, but its hard to fly around and smash the F9 key to take screenshots rapidly in Mednafen to assemble a GIF, lol

[jlued686]

Jesus, these new homebrews are looking really sweet. Nice work!

[Arkhan Asylum]

Turbob does what Nintendont!

[_Paul]

I like the bit where it goes OM NOM NOM NOM at the top.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Right after that, he's going to fly at you and shoot your face open with his almighty MUTANT BLASTER.

[Nazi NecroPhile]

I like the bit where it goes OM NOM NOM NOM at the top.

Yep, that's the best part. 

[soop]

An update:

I played some Defender yesterday at the arcade that's about an hour away..

After giving it some thought and fiddling, there are some other aspects of Defender that I may not end up putting into Atlantean, again, mostly for screen-clutter reasons.   Defender had a nice big bitmapped screen with tiny-tiny graphics.   In console-o-fying it, this advantage is lost unless I do like Defender did on NES and keep the art all tiny and shit, and to be honest, if that were the case, I wouldn't even bother making the game. 

The one glaring thing I noticed is this:

Being able to shoot the humanoids.  The art is all too big and spritey now.  You're likely going to nail the humanoids way too much, especially if you're cruising the surface of the map.   

I am going to see how the difficulty is without being able to, and if it feels right, I probably won't add it in.  I really do get the feeling that having it in place would make the game un-fun.  The humans would be dead sooner than the arcade game since the screen-proportions are way different.  Since this is Defender inspired and not a 1:1 clone, I think it will be OK.   

The advantage to not doing this means I can make the abduction-setup look cooler.    The sprites can overlap.  It will look neat.


I understand that shooting the humanoids adds various depths to the game (shoot them all, kill the mutants with the reverse glitch)... and it increases the difficulty since you have to aim good when shooting the Landers...

so, does anyone have any input on this?   

I used to play that way - it's certainly an im portant element of Defender.  I think you're just going to have to try it out and see what it's like.

[Arkhan Asylum]

yeah.  I will put it in, but its probably going to make the game iffy.


Right now, I definitely have it so you cant shoot the humanoids while they are being abducted.

The reason for this is:

1) They're all up in the jelly fish.  It looks sweet cause the tentacles are covering them
2) It makes no fucking sense in Defender that you can shoot the human who's randomly dangling off the bottom of a UFO.   He's as tall as the UFO.  That makes no sense either. 

lol

So, it'll likely be that you can shoot them on the ground, or if they're falling

[CrackTiger]

Those humanoids look an awful lot like sea monkeys.

[Arkhan Asylum]

thats because thats what I said to have them look like.  lol

[Nando]

it'll likely be that you can shoot them on the ground, or if they're falling

that makes sense.  Looking awesome!

[Arkhan Asylum]

!!!!

[ParanoiaDragon]

Woah!  The one sitting down with the bow in her hair...she's kinda hot!!

[cabbage]

!!!!

i smell a preorder bonus