Order of the Griffon

VestCunt · 11/17/2006, 05:16 PM

I've been playing this game pretty heavily the last week or so. I haven't been this engrossed with an RPG in a long time and I think OOTG is one of the best domestic releases. Many D+D rules affect the game that aren't mentioned in the manual. This would be a minor nuisance for those without dorky pastimes.
Anyway, I've been digging it. This game has never received much discussion on here. What do you all think?

GUTS · 11/17/2006, 05:59 PM

I loved that game minus the horrible ending and password system (although if you're playing on a duo that wouldn't be a problem). Next to Eye of the Beholder 1&2 it's definitely my favorite AD&D game; the graphics are nice, the battle system rules, and the AD&D rules are well implemented (delayed blast fireballs rule). I've been trying to win a complete one on ebay for the last few months so I could play through it again but I keep getting outbid by sniping assholes.

VestCunt · 11/17/2006, 06:57 PM

Quote from: GUTS on 11/17/2006, 05:59 PMI loved that game minus the horrible ending and password system (although if you're playing on a duo that wouldn't be a problem). Next to Eye of the Beholder 1&2 it's definitely my favorite AD&D game; the graphics are nice, the battle system rules, and the AD&D rules are well implemented (delayed blast fireballs rule). I've been trying to win a complete one on ebay for the last few months so I could play through it again but I keep getting outbid by sniping assholes.

Yeah, I can't imagine playing without the memory on a Duo or TurboBooster Plus. Too bad because I could be getting some extra gaming in on my TE right now!

Even though I'm a big fan of the Ultima series and have beaten all the NES/SNES ports I've never been into computer gaming. I probably should be because I prefer less-linear RPGs; none of the Final Fantasy crap.

How do Eye of the Beholder on (SNES) and Warriors of the Eternal Sun (Genesis) compare to OOTG? They all came out around the same time. Are they worth tracking down?

Also, the battle music on my copy of Order of the griffon suddenly stops whenever the first sound effect occurs. Is this normal?

Here's a funny thing I found on Wikipedia:

QuoteOrder of the Griffon is a video game for the TurboGrafx-16. Frank Klepacki composed its music, and cites it as the low-point of his career due to difficulties working with the TG-16's sound engine.

esteban · 11/18/2006, 05:49 AM

Quote from: VestCunt on 11/17/2006, 05:16 PMI've been playing this game pretty heavily the last week or so. I haven't been this engrossed with an RPG in a long time and I think OOTG is one of the best domestic releases. Many D+D rules affect the game that aren't mentioned in the manual. This would be a minor nuisance for those without dorky pastimes.
Anyway, I've been digging it. This game has never received much discussion on here. What do you all think?

From an older post:
"Order of the Griffon is an enjoyable game, IMO. I think you'd be happy with it, especially if you liked the early TSR / SSI games that appeared on various computer platforms back in the day. This HuCard does a decent job of capturing the SSI experience on a console. Also, if you are the least bit interested in D&D, then you have to get Order of the Griffon, since it was the only TG-16 game licensed from SSI."

IIRC, OotG never appeared on any other platform. Can anyone verify that?

Kaminari · 11/18/2006, 01:33 PM

Order of the Griffon is a honest Westwood game, although I would have a hard time comparing it to Eye of the Beholder in terms of production values. Although I'm certainly glad Klepacki tried to tackle the PSG, I think he could have done much better working with a talented PCE sequencer (which obviously was a rare sight outside of Japan). While he ruled the MIDI scene (especially on the MT-32), FM sound has never been his forte.

esteban · 11/18/2006, 01:51 PM

Quote from: Kaminari on 11/18/2006, 01:33 PMOrder of the Griffon is a honest Westwood game, although I would have a hard time comparing it to Eye of the Beholder in terms of production values. Although I'm certainly glad Klepacki tried to tackle the PSG, I think he could have done much better working with a talented PCE sequencer (which obviously was a rare sight outside of Japan). While he ruled the MIDI scene (especially on the MT-32), FM sound has never been his forte.

I commented in the other thread while you were posting here, about the very game in question!

I feared that you were completely dismissing Order of the Griffon. ;)

GUTS · 11/18/2006, 02:40 PM

The SNES version of Eye of the Beholder is pretty poor, its slow and ugly. If you have a Sega CD get that version, its the absolute best and even way better than the computer version due to the AWESOME soundtrack and improved grpahics. Warriors of the Eternal Sun is pretty good too, it does a great job of mixing Ultima with AD&D (the overworld graphics look exactly like ultima 6 while the dungeons are pure Eye of the Beholder).

Kaminari · 11/19/2006, 10:40 AM

Quote from: stevek666 on 11/18/2006, 01:51 PMI feared that you were completely dismissing Order of the Griffon. ;)

I've tried hard, oh yes... but I'm afraid I'm just incapable of despising any Westwood production :)

About Eye of the Beholder MCD, the soundtrack was done by Koshiro and Sakimoto. That could have been worse!

GUTS · 11/19/2006, 12:54 PM

Yeah that's why it totally rules, wandering around the dungeon is awesome when you have a kickass techno soundtrack.

esteban · 11/19/2006, 02:35 PM

Quote from: GUTS on 11/19/2006, 12:54 PMYeah that's why it totally rules, wandering around the dungeon is awesome when you have a kickass techno soundtrack.

Oh crap, now I am intrigued! Are you serious about there being "techno dancey" music in the Sega CD version? That's not what I was expecting, but it sounds like a nice -- if unorthodox -- change of pace. Awesome.

GUTS · 11/20/2006, 02:53 AM

Yeah there's one track that plays for the majority of the quest that is a damn cool techno rave song, it gets you pumped for battle and it loops so well that it never gets old, I still pop in my Eye of the Beholder once in a while and listen to it.

esteban · 11/20/2006, 08:32 AM

Quote from: GUTS on 11/20/2006, 02:53 AMYeah there's one track that plays for the majority of the quest that is a damn cool techno rave song, it gets you pumped for battle and it loops so well that it never gets old, I still pop in my Eye of the Beholder once in a while and listen to it.

Kool, thanks for the scoop. Looks like I'll have to get this game and experience it for myself.

NecroPhile · 11/23/2006, 12:38 AM

I played the hell out of OotG a few years back, but lost my save file and didn't bother to start over. It's too bad the password system was so cumbersome, as it would be nice to have a solid RPG for the Express. I'll have to pull OotG out for another shot and make use of the Tennokoe Bank to help with those accidents.

M1Savage · 11/23/2006, 08:36 PM

This would probably be better asked at the magicengine board but since most people there hang out here anyway I'll give it a shot.

I decided to give this game another shot as I've been in a bit of a dungeon crawl mood lately. Trying it in a couple of versions of magicengine, I notice that during the game, the character on the right is "cut off" (not on screen). Since it had been a loooong time since I'd played the game I had to dig out my hucard to make sure that wasn't the way it was supposed to be.

Do any of you have the same results? Is there an emulator that gets this game "right"?

By the way, I am enjoying the game more this time around even though I know almost zero about D&D.

rolins · 11/23/2006, 09:25 PM

Quote from: m1savage on 11/23/2006, 08:36 PMI decided to give this game another shot as I've been in a bit of a dungeon crawl mood lately. Trying it in a couple of versions of magicengine, I notice that during the game, the character on the right is "cut off" (not on screen). Since it had been a loooong time since I'd played the game I had to dig out my hucard to make sure that wasn't the way it was supposed to be.

Do any of you have the same results? Is there an emulator that gets this game "right"?

Use Mednafen and you'll won't get this problem.

JoshTurboTrollX · 11/23/2006, 11:10 PM

OOTG is one of my favs on the TG16. Totally rad!

It was 1994 when I got this bad boy, I was playing lots of this, Dungeon Master TQ, and Might and Magic III back then..

All Killer games.

I especially like the D&D settings and official characters from the AD&D universe.
I think the rules they used for OOTG was from late 1st edition and early 2nd edition, cause a couple things don't make much sense.

I still have the D&D collector cards for Kier and Kallak.
D&D rules!!

Sorry for the dork rant...lol

TurboSage

esteban · 11/24/2006, 08:50 AM

Quote from: m1savage on 11/23/2006, 08:36 PMBy the way, I am enjoying the game more this time around even though I know almost zero about D&D.

Good to hear!

. Dude, check your PM

.

VestCunt · 11/29/2006, 09:53 PM

Quote from: turbo_sage on 11/23/2006, 11:10 PMI especially like the D&D settings and official characters from the AD&D universe.
I think the rules they used for OOTG was from late 1st edition and early 2nd edition, cause a couple things don't make much sense.

OOTG uses the Basic D+D rules, which predate Advanced D+D and are neither 1st or 2nd Edition. Hence Elves, Dwarves and Halflings are classes rather than races and most of the rules are less complex.

I beat this game last week and had a pretty awesome time all the way through. I wish there had been more big, dramatic battles. Most of them were fairly easy even through I only had two spellcasters in my group.

Charm Person is one of my favorite spells. Late in the game there are a lot of battles with large groups of evil humans. I was often able to charm mid-level enemy spellcasters (Enchanters are good targets, Llamas and Sorcerers are difficult) and watch entire hordes of enemies halt their advance and begin attacking and fireballing their now-charmed comrade, often killing more of their allies with the blast radius. My charmed targets would then respond with webs and fireballs of their own.

Another time I had my dwarf (AC-5) swallow a potion of invulnerability (reducing his AC to -7) before I used Dimension Door to place him right in the middle of a group of beasts that were still fairly distant. This gave the rest of my party plenty of time to safely bombard the herd with spells and missiles while my almost invincible dwarf hacked it out in the melee.

CrackTiger · 11/30/2006, 05:29 AM

Quote from: VestCunt on 11/29/2006, 09:53 PM
Quote from: turbo_sage on 11/23/2006, 11:10 PMI especially like the D&D settings and official characters from the AD&D universe.
I think the rules they used for OOTG was from late 1st edition and early 2nd edition, cause a couple things don't make much sense.
OOTG uses the Basic D+D rules, which predate Advanced D+D and are neither 1st or 2nd Edition. Hence Elves, Dwarves and Halflings are classes rather than races and most of the rules are less complex.

I beat this game last week and had a pretty awesome time all the way through. I wish there had been more big, dramatic battles; most of them were fairly easy even through I only had two spellcasters in my group.

Charm Person is one of my favorite spells in this game. Late in the game there are a lot of battles with large groups of evil humans. I was often able charm mid-level enemy spellcasters (Enchanters are good targets, Llamas and Sorcerers are difficult) and watch entire hordes of enemies halt their advance and begin attacking and fireballing their now-charmed comrade, often killing more of their allies with the blast radius. My charmed target would then respond with webs and fireballs of their own.

Another time I had my dwarf (AC-5) swallow a potion of invulnerability (reducing his AC to -7) before I used Dimension Door to place him right in the middle of a group of beasts that were still fairly distant. This gave the rest of my party plenty of time to safely bombard the herd with spells and missiles while my practically invincible dwarf hacked it out in the melee.

It sounds like OOTG is an even better game than I thought, although I'll never be able to appreciate it fully.

Keranu · 11/30/2006, 06:39 AM

Quote from: CrackTiger on 11/30/2006, 05:29 AMIt sounds like OOTG is an even better game than I thought, although I'll never be able to appreciate it fully.

Agreed. I have barely put any time in this game from what I've played in emulators, so I should really pick it up sometime. Great post, VestCunt; you really make the game sound awesome.

CrackTiger · 11/30/2006, 07:42 AM

Quote from: Keranu on 11/30/2006, 06:39 AM
Quote from: CrackTiger on 11/30/2006, 05:29 AMIt sounds like OOTG is an even better game than I thought, although I'll never be able to appreciate it fully.
Agreed. I have barely put any time in this game from what I've played in emulators, so I should really pick it up sometime. Great post, VestCunt; you really make the game sound awesome.

I can at least vouch that it's still fun and playable for non-D&D nuts. I know that if I'd read some of these posts about "rules" before ever playing it, I'd be intimidated about trying the game.

Bake · 11/30/2006, 01:29 PM

Quote from: Keranu on 11/30/2006, 06:39 AM
Quote from: CrackTiger on 11/30/2006, 05:29 AMIt sounds like OOTG is an even better game than I thought, although I'll never be able to appreciate it fully.
Agreed. I have barely put any time in this game from what I've played in emulators, so I should really pick it up sometime. Great post, VestCunt; you really make the game sound awesome.

I think it's worth getting because it is probably top 3 for RPG's for the TurboGrafx.

M1Savage · 11/30/2006, 03:26 PM

I'm staying home today due to snow so I've been playing it most of the morning.

The manual doesn't help much as it seems they assume you already know the D&D rules. For instance, I didn't know that you want a LOW AC (armor class?) number. Even so, it hasn't stopped me from playing and the game is fun. I did finally print out the maps instead of breaking out the graph paper again. Wasn't ready to get quite THAT geeky this week. Er...let's see, I'm playing an old D&D game on an outdated system and posting about it on a videogame forum....guess my "geekness" is already complete.

VestCunt · 12/01/2006, 06:13 PM

Quote from: Bake on 11/30/2006, 01:29 PMI think it's worth getting because it is probably top 3 for RPG's for the turbo grafx.

If you don't count the CD games, it's the ONLY hardcore rpg for the TurboGrafx!
(OK, maybe Double Dungeons too ;)

Quote from: CrackTiger on 11/30/2006, 07:42 AMI can at least vouch that it's still fun and playable for non-D&D nuts. I know that if I'd read some of these posts about "rules" before ever playing it, I'd be intimidated about trying the game.

------
Off the top of my head, here's the rules that aren't touched on in the manual: (There are some rules I can't tell if they actually programed into the game, they are marked with a *)

1)When you create your characters, ability scores start doing good things when they get above 13-15. 18 is the best. High dexterity lowers your armor class and improves you chance to hit with missile weapons, str=more damage, better chance to hit in melee, Con=more hit points, Int=Mages and elves memorize more spells*, Wis=same thing but for clerics.*
2)You need magical weapons and spells to attack Devilswine, undead more powerful than ghouls and maybe some other monsters.
3)Armor slows you down, especially plate mail! Your character won't move as far in battle.
4)Elves can't be charmed*
5)Dwaves and Halflings move slower than humans but dwarves are more resistant to magic and halflings can pick pockets and hit more often with missiles.*
6)Magic wands and staffs have a limited number of charges before they vanish. This makes them foolish to buy until you've purchased all of the weapons and armor available.

wooster · 12/05/2006, 01:12 PM

Does anyone know where I can find maps of the dungeons for this game?

wooster · 12/05/2006, 01:13 PM

Does anyone know where I can find maps fo the dungeons for this game?

esteban · 12/05/2006, 01:17 PM

Quote from: wooster on 12/05/2006, 01:13 PMDoes anyone know where I can find maps fo the dungeons for this game?

I haven't checked, but GameFaqs is probably the best place. But, I urge you not to get the maps... because this game really is fun to play without any outside help.

wooster · 12/12/2006, 04:40 PM

GameFaqs doesn't have a map.

I played through this game in the early 90s. I don't have a problem using maps the 2nd time around.

My favorite game of all time is Alternate Reality for the 8-bit Atari computers. So many nice memories mapping The City. But no way would I have the time to do again, nor enjoy the same way I did when I was a kid.

I'd like to be able to enjoy my old games without having to commit untold hours - this is a big disincentive. Would be such a great contribution to TG16 archives to have some decent maps for this.

Anyway, any help greatly appreciated!

VestCunt · 12/12/2006, 04:47 PM

here are all of the maps:
http://www.gamespot.com/tg16/rpg/orderofthegriffon/hints.html

there also posted at:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/turbo16/game/589058.html

Good luck!

wooster · 12/18/2006, 03:15 PM

Hi, thanks a lot. Sorry for being ignorant about the maps. I swear I checked gamefaqs but now look - there they are.

I remember really wanting an RPG turbochip forever on the Turbo. Reading all those great reviews of great SNES and Genesis games. Zilch for TG16. I don't count Neutopia.

Even if it came late, way too late, am glad we finally got Order of the Griffin.

VestCunt · 12/18/2006, 03:45 PM

Quote from: wooster on 12/18/2006, 03:15 PMI remember really wanting an RPG turbochip forever on the Turbo. Reading all those great reviews of great SNES and Genesis games. Zilch for TG16. I don't count Neutopia.

Ditto. Neutopia is good as an action game but I think it's braindead for a RPG. I don't remember Neutopia 1 that well, but I'm currently playing the sequel and if an item is hidden under a rock, there are villagers in three adjacent screens all telling me exactly which boulder to push.
Frozen Utopia-Could you please leave out some of the tutorial kid stuff in N3? A darker, more dramatic plot would be sweet too.

Order of the Griffon

_VestCunt

GUTS

_VestCunt

esteban

Kaminari

esteban

GUTS

Kaminari

GUTS

esteban

GUTS

esteban

_NecroPhile

M1Savage

rolins

_{JoshTurboTrollX}

esteban

_VestCunt

_CrackTiger

Keranu

_CrackTiger

Bake

M1Savage

_VestCunt

wooster

wooster

esteban

wooster

_VestCunt

wooster

_VestCunt