REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo/PC Engine Duo: Total capacitor replacement chart

[kato]

Somebody linked this shop in this thread.
Now I am little confused. Should I use 4.7µF with 16V or with 50V?

And I can't find anywhere (within Europe) Panasonic caps with 22µF/16V with a lifetime of 5000h-10000h, only 22µF/25V with 1000h-5000h lifetime or 22µF/50V with a lifetime of 5000h-10000h.
I want them to last as long as possible. Any recommendations?

[NightWolve]

Somebody linked this shop in this thread.
Now I am little confused. Should I use 4.7µF with 16V or with 50V?

That has exactly what you need in one package, one price, but nobody could vouch for the quality. You'll likely need to buy at least two cap kits to get all the values elsewhere.

A small 4.7µF capacitor is likely gonna have a high breakdown voltage of 50V, but anyhow, 16V would still be safe. The Turbo Duo operates at 5V max past the voltage regulator where 10V comes in from the unregulated power supply (so it's probably like ~12.5V)... So, since the motherboard operates at 5V, 16V max caps are perfectly safe and way above that.

When you start getting lower than 10µF to 5µF to 1µF and below (1000pF) as far as capacitance goes, you start getting into the ranges that ceramic capacitors support and they can handle 50V to 250V, while still being small, etc. So, that's why, even though it's aluminum, it can handle 50V max... At 22µF and above, something like that, the the breakdown voltage that the cap can handle goes down, but for more money and at the expense of a bigger size, you can still get them with higher rated breakdown voltages, etc.

And I can't find anywhere (within Europe) Panasonic caps with 22µF/16V with a lifetime of 5000h-10000h, only 22µF/25V with 1000h-5000h lifetime or 22µF/50V with a lifetime of 5000h-10000h.
I want them to last as long as possible. Any recommendations?

The higher the max breakdown voltage is, the more expensive and bigger the capacitor will be.  As long as it says 22µF, you can use it just fine! So get the expensive 22µF/50V ones if you wanna spend the money and want a high lifetime rating.

Basically, the rule for replacing is: make sure the capacitance value matches exactly, and that the voltage rating is at least twice what the circuit operates at. And simply know that the higher the max breakdown voltage is, the more expensive and bigger that the capacitor will be, as I said, but that it'll still work fine and likely just last longer...

[kato]

Ok, thanks!

Does it matter whether I use caps with a maximum temperature capacity of 85°C or 105°C?
It's hard to find all needed caps made by Panasonic. It's easier for me to get caps made by Yageo. Are these any good or are these just cheap Chinese caps?

[BlueBMW]

If youd like, ill put together a cap kit for you.  Shoot me a pm if youre interested.  All Panasonics.

[thesteve]

Basically, the rule for replacing is: make sure the capacitance value matches exactly, and that the voltage rating is at least twice what the circuit operates at. And simply know that the higher the max breakdown voltage is, the more expensive and bigger that the capacitor will be, as I said, but that it'll still work fine and likely just last longer...

just wanted to add
the life rating of the cap is when operated at its specified voltage/ripple
operating a cap below its ratings will extend its life greatly.

[drakewolfe]

I found this website http://www.anthrofox.org/projects/turbo_caps.html that seems to go into detail about the cap replacement.

[NightWolve]

Figured I'd add this in. This youtuber bought a kit from console5 and got his Turbo Duo working with it.

_{http://console5.com/store/kits/game-console-cap-kits/game-console-cap-kits-nec/nec-turboduo-cap-kit.html} (more $$$ than the HK link though)

The thing about these exact kits is that they're not cost-effective but if you think you'll only ever do something like this once, then they work. For 10 bucks from these Chinese sellers, you can find kits that have 200 pieces total, 20 of each, etc., and after doing a full cap replacement, you'll have plenty of caps left to spare for other possible projects. But you'll likely need to get at least two of these kits in order to get all of the needed values and amounts in the Turbo Duo's case. Anyhow, I'd still say stick to eBay hunting for cap kits there.

[BlueBMW]

jailbar filter caps (someone asked)

I can say this works quite good!  Keith Courage always shows jailbars on the solid blue backgrounds.  Here's a duo RX after installing some caps like steve showed.

/KeithRGB_zpsd849a9c1.jpg

[Keith Courage]

Huh, I've never come across a system that displayed jailbars before. Does it happen with just the stadard composite out or does it happen more when using S-Video or Component?

[BlueBMW]

Mostly on RGB modded systems.

[NightWolve]

Huh, I've never come across a system that displayed jailbars before. Does it happen with just the stadard composite out or does it happen more when using S-Video or Component?

No, like Blue said, it's a problem that occurs with a RGB connection from what I have heard.

[gtsamour]

No, the jailbar problem is everywhere (RGB, composite etc) and on all PCEngines, you just need to be observative. Its most obvious on solid light colour backgrounds, specificly during horizontal movement and more on LCD tvs than CRTs.
Its more obvious on RGB because RGB gives the best, crispier picture possible but I've noticed the jailbars on all my TG consoles even on composite. Composite is just blurrier so it makes the jailbars less obvious.
From the PCEs I own (and I own many), by far the most intense jailbars are on the Core II.

Does the two tantalum caps shown in the picture above completely solves the jailbar issue or does it make it "lighter"?

I tried another jailbar fix sometime ago that involved tantalum caps (dont remember from whom it was) but not on the legs of the chip. Did nothing for me...

[thesteve]

the effectiveness of the caps depends on how close to the chip you can get then and the ESR of the caps.
also RGB mods will often have secondary jailbars caused by the amp/chip/cable/tv grounds not tied at the same point (look up ground loop)

[gtsamour]

Yes its understandable, lets say they are as close to the chip as they can get, like directly soldered on the chip's legs as shown in the picture. Are the jailbars noticeable or completely gone?

Are these caps shown in the picture ceramic or electrolytic? Are they tantalum? I thought tantalum were electrolytic...

[NightWolve]

To help out, I had made this for the Component thread from steve's photo:



They're polarized tantalums. Fortunately, they're both easy to do. Pin 41 is at the corner of the chip, so you have less of a chance to bridge the pin next to it as opposed to if you had to solder to a pin that has a pin to the left and right of it. As for pin 43, at least in the case where it's on the bottom of a US Duo, you can scrape off the film from the trace or better yet at the via further away from the pin, solder there AND your ground is right there also, so less risky overall, etc.

I tried another jailbar fix sometime ago that involved tantalum caps (dont remember from whom it was) but not on the legs of the chip. Did nothing for me...

You didn't have steve on the case then. ;) As to how well this works, the last comment from someone that tried it was "vastly improved." I'd say that's another satisfied customer!

[gtsamour]

Ahhh thanks, that answers my question... so I need two 22uF 16v polarized tantalum for each console.

Actually I tried the "to solve jail-bar issue on rgb modded system replace capacitor C961 10uf with 100uf tant or 220uf aluminum" mod, which was also steve's but did nothing for me. I hope that one works

[thesteve]

this one works on the same concept, except it eliminates the variances in the boards by going direct to the chip and adds a cap to the 5v rail

[gtsamour]

Well I know some people said they saw a difference by doing the C961 cap mod, but I didn't (on my black PCEngine DUO R).
Already ordered some 22uF 16V polarized tantalums and I'll try the other mod, hope this one will make a difference for me

[thesteve]

its possible your getting jailbars from cabling as well

[gtsamour]

From cabling you mean the RGB cabling? Well I thought that too but I could see jailbars on composite even without the RGB amplifier installed.
I see jailbars even on simple unmodified TG-16 on composite taken from the expansion slot so I doubt its my cabling.... if it was I would be able to see changes at the jailbars just by moving cables around which I don't.

And anyway, nobody reported a significant improvement by just doing the C961 mod so why should it be my cabling....

[thesteve]

when i did an lm1881 on the far end of a cable, it caused them as well.
it was solved by adding a cap to the lm1881 power pin

[gtsamour]

What capacitor value did you use?
Using the lm1881 on the far end of the cable.... doesn't that make the cable an "antenna" for introducng interference in the power line?

I use the amplifier with the 4 transistors (R G B and Sync amplification ) that was published for the PCEngine ages ago, but always inside the console. Cables are as short as possible (considering the lengths needed to pick the signals), and are taken from an IDE stripe cable.

[thesteve]

i put a 470uf across the lm1881
the cap was overkill
the reason i did it like i did was, to make a scart to RGBS adapter for my display

[gtsamour]

The PCEngine DUO (black) must have the worst jailbar problem of them all.

I did mine with two 22uF 16V tantalum caps, here's a picture...

/imag0053rx.jpg

There is an improvement (LCD tv), I would call it an average and not vast one though... jailbars are kind of dispersed but still there.
Or maybe I'm just being anal about them (like looking for jailbars at the lcd screen from different angles)

I wish there was a solution that completely eradicates the deam jail bars, like there is one for the famicom system. It involves shielding the chip with copper foil among other things... don't know if that would help the PCE though

[thesteve]

where is your amp ground?
your RGB amp needs to ground by that chip

[gtsamour]

The amp is on the other side of the board, here's a picture. I'm getting ground from the video out socket.

dscn0045rb.jpg

Where exactly do you mean I have to get ground for the amp? Like from one of the tantalum capacitor's negative pole to prevent ground loop?

I take +5V from the socket too... do you think I should be taking it from another spot?

What happens with other PCEs like the Core II for example.... I use the same amp but I took all signals and ground and 5V from the expansion port... Is that ok or should I get ground right next to the chip again?

Thanx for your help.

[NightWolve]

imag0053rx.jpg

A little big those two, but you managed to pull it off. The seller typically provides the dimensions of a cap so you can better pick ones that'll fit BTW.

Where exactly do you mean I have to get ground for the amp? Like from one of the tantalum capacitor's negative pole to prevent ground loop?

Yeah, that sounds like what he's saying. There should be a 5th wire close to that chip and where you soldered the negative end of the caps is ground, so that'd be one place. I would guess identifying an actual pin that IS grounded would be even better according to what he's saying. As for a +5V source, tapping it right from the regulator is the best if you can manage it. Tapping it elsewhere means more resistance having traveled around via traces, so it's less clean. This seems to matter with region mods or something and those older flashcarts not working right unless you tap the +5V needed power from the regulator. Anyway, I don't think it matters much here powering a little amplifier, so I'd just try his ground suggestion.

[gtsamour]

Yeah I think thats the case too

Well since these caps are tantalum 22uF 16V, Ι dont think they come in smaller sizes for this capacitance at least. Ceramic may be smaller though. Compare with the tantalums (non SMD) steve has in his picture /20130314222631.jpg ... they are just about the same size. The weird thing is that I don't see a ground cable close to the chip, unless he's not using an amp.

ps
The video socket's 5V is pretty close to the regulator so I think its OK, unless steve suggests otherwise.

[NightWolve]

http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=hu6260_netlist

OK, going by that, pin 39 is GND (next to pin 40/Luma), pin 48 is GND (in between Red and Green), etc. There are several.

Use a DMM and do a continuity test to make sure with a known ground point and I guess I would solder directly on one of those pins.

The video socket's 5V is pretty close to the regulator so I think its OK, unless steve suggests otherwise.

Well, that's where a +5V source is normally taken on the top of the PCB and you've had reports of the problems with this region mod/flashcart issue which are solved by tapping the output pin of one of the regulators, etc. But yeah, I guess it's a matter of "juice" and this is a little amplifier, so probably not necessary to go that far.

EDIT: OK, here's some context, a thread about the +5V regulator/switchless region mod issue. Just so you know what I was referring to. People report they fixed some crashes/issues with flashcarts and that region mod or whatever. Drakon says he always taps +5V from the regulator, etc. Your voltage will likely read higher, ~5.32 V or so whereas the at the AV out, I was getting like 5.02 V, etc.

[gtsamour]

Yes I understand the issue about 5V, but its an analog amp with low power consumption. Region mods are complicated and probably more power consuming. Anyway, its hooked on the video socket's 5V and if you exclude the jailbar issue, the picture is perfect otherwise. If unclean power supply can cause jailbars then I'll go for the regulator but I doubt it can...

OK I'll try it tomorrow and see if the jailbars go away even more.

But what about PCEngines that the signals aren't taken straight from the chip but from the expansion board... is the chip still the best point to get ground from or the GRND dron the expansion port is OK?

[NightWolve]

He said the RGB amp needs to ground as close as possible to the 6260 chip (going by what he's saying), so a grounded pin on the chip would be the best. Grounding via the expansion port would be worse, further away from the chip.

[gtsamour]

So taking the signals and power from the expansion port is OK as long as you're getting ground from 6260's pin or close right? Or geting the other signals straight from the chip too is mandatory to avoid jailbars? I would love steve's confirmation on that one too 

[NightWolve]

Well, people have been doing it that way, so yeah, I guess. But if you gotta ground at the chip to really solve this jailbar issue as he is saying anyway, you might as well tap the RGB+S directly with new/good wires as just by basic physics you'll get the strongest signal sources there pre-amplification. At the expansion port, the signals have traveled from the chip to the traces to those pins, etc. hence resistance. Your new wires directly from the chip to the amp will likely subtract a little resistance.

[thesteve]

the signals should be fine
the ground traces are sig and power
when power flows thru a ground it causes noise
the longer the wire/trace the more noise it causes
the caps clamp the noise from point to point

[NightWolve]

How do you determine the capacitance value for these caps to "clamp" the noise ?? Would an official method be to connect an oscilloscope and see the noise, then add values from 10 uF and up and observe what value best helps "clamp" off the noise ?? Something like that ??

[thesteve]

consider its not so much correct value, as sufficient value
the best way to test it is be visual effect, as the noise is to small to see on a scope (normally)

[gtsamour]

Thanks Steve.

So taking the signals and +5V from the expansion port's pins isn't a problem I guess so I'll only change the ground to all six of my modded PCEngines (and install the tantalums ofcourse)

Do you think that connecting the ground wire to the 6260 chip's ground pin (pin 55 or 56 according to this guy

) is better than connecting it just next to it (onboard)? Well ofcourse it sounds better but will it make any difference?

Actually my DUO R (white) must be personally modded by the guy in the video because it is exactly the same (same amp, same connections and all). It gives very good picture with very faint jailbars but he's using composite instead of sync.
He's getting 5V from the 7805 regulator.... I will do the same like NightWolve suggested.

[NightWolve]

Yeah, pin 55 and 56 are also ground according to the list I linked you earlier and what he used in the video. Whether he knew it or not as far as the benefits, he did a steve-approved modding job. ;) I would probably use pin 48 since it's right in between Red and Green, but yeah, any of the pins listed as GND will work. He probably used 55 cause it'd be easier to solder, less chance of bridging since you'd have Red, Gnd, and Green soldered next to each other. I think I could do it with my equipment, but maybe not.

Anyhow, very cool modding video by this guy! That's close to what I would like to have been making already...

P.S.

Why do you have 6 PC Engines ?? ;)

[gtsamour]

Why do I have 6? (hehehehe..... good question)... 2xTG16 (plus 1x SuperCD Rom), 1xCore II, 1xPCE DUO, 1xPCE DUO R, 1x Super Grafx, all boxed. I'm still missing some Huuuuge PCE fan 

I think pins 55 and 56 is the ideal place for ground exactly for the reason you mentioned (easier to solder) plus its good for the ground wire to be thicker (same for the 5V wire too). So you could just solder it on both pins...

edit...
I did the connections of both ground (to pins 55-56) and +5V to the right leg of the 7805 regulator.
Didn't notice any change compared to the previous state which had the two caps installed that indeed made a whole lot of difference.
If there was indeed a ground loop, it wasn't causing something noticable (at my DUO system at least).

To put it all in a nutshell, the caps do make a big difference. My DUO had the worse jailbars (very obvious and irritating) and now its the best of all my PCE systems. The jailbars don't go away completely, you'll spot them if you're anal about it but you must be looking for them to see them.

I even compared the DUO R which the guy on the video must have modded and the jailbars are more intense compared to the DUO with the tantalum caps.

I will install the caps on all the rest of my systems.... I won't switch the 5V source to the regulator and I'm not so sure changing the ground will add anything to the equation....

imag0054it.jpg
imag0056la.jpg
imag0060v.jpg

[NightWolve]

That first photo looks great, gt! Bravo, ya modding-maga! ;) I think I like that you can bridge pins 55+56 and use a thicker gauge wire, so I changed my mind, that's how I'll do my Turbo Duo when it comes to the YPbPr Component mod for -/GND. No, scratch that, it's a great idea!

You know what else would be good ?? Some hot glue over the wires as they come around right next to the the cap in your first photo instead of black tape. All that grounded area would be perfect to position all the wires over and hot glue 'em down to make things permanent. My wires, since they're not solid copper and *thin*, right where they've been soldered and are metalized by the lead/tin, if they're bended back'n'forth for like 4-8 times (it's unpredictable, but it's easy to happen) and what not, they'll break off... So some hot glue to permanently fix the wires down a little bit after they've been soldered somewhere I find is useful. Since the 6260 chip is on the bottom of a US Turbo Duo, I think it's a very good idea so that you'll never have to flip the PCB over again if there's a problem in the future. All the needed wires will be accessible on the top and very secure on the bottom. Just need to make sure you cut them at a good enough length.

Well, sucks that you didn't get a further improvement for the jailbar issue, but I bet it varies. At least the cap idea has a significant impact!

P.S. Quite a tangent, but I happen to have a Savings account in the Ethniki Trapeza of Greece, and it has a couple of thousand US dollars in it. I kinda think I should've emptied the whole thing out last time I was there in '08... Anyway, I notice you're in Athens, so what the hell is going on over there with these socialist 10% raids or whatever on bank accounts that they're talking about ? Is that limited to Cyprus or is that shit gonna spread elsewhere to Euro countries ?? The ole "running out of other people's money" is in full swing, eh ??

[gtsamour]

Thanks NightWolve, I try to make things as neat as possible when modding systems. As you can see the whole board is sqeaky clean, thats what you get after imersing the whole board under a significant amount of isopropyl alcohol. Being a chemist and working in a pharmaceutical company has its benefits

Actually I use hard disk ribbon cable stripes. The thin ones are from E-IDE ribbon cable and the gray thicker one from standard IDE cable. These cables must have very low resistance. The good thing with these cables is that they're really flexible. You can bend and twist them but they won't break inside. And you can get many many cable lines from just one ribbon.

As for the banks issue... there is none here. The "raid" on people's money (the ones that have more than 100000 euros in accounts) is limited to Cyprus.
Is it going to spread elsewhere? They're saying it won't but who knows these days... specially when the 4th Reich is running Europe.

[NightWolve]

As for the banks issue... there is none here. The "raid" on people's money (the ones that have more than 100000 euros in accounts) is limited to Cyprus. Is it going to spread elsewhere? They're saying it won't but who knows these days... specially when the 4th Reich is running Europe.

Oh, pfffft, OK, it's for accounts over 100,000 EUR. It's a soak the rich raid. Yeah, then no problem (for me). The way it was reported made people paranoid! I hadn't seen that figure. But I believe I read that Spain/Italy or something were talking about the same sort of thing.

Anyway, it's only some chump change left in my account so next time I'm visiting/vacationing, I'll have access to local spending cash. I was trying to decide if I should just cash out last time I was there, but I left most of it for that reason. Chicago actually used to have a Greek Ethniki Trapeza branch, but it closed some time ago (we are considered Tsipiana/Nestani here, hehe!). There is another one in New York for the Greek community there, so in theory, I could drive there with my Savings book and close it out if I got freaked out about the economic situation in Greece. That conversion to Euro sure was a killer man... For you and for Americans visiting...

Anyway, thumbs up on the modding! Good luck!

[gtsamour]

I wouldn't worry about it, and from experience... if they're talking about such a thing, it aint gonna happen. What's the point of letting it be known to people so they can withdraw their money before it happens?
Take Cyprus for example... it happened before people had the chance to do anything, except the b@astards that had information from within... (like Cyprus priminister's daughter for example).
Euro is nice.... specially when buying from the US but it can be a pain in lots of things.

ps
I may do the hot glue thing on it, I hate the sticky residue this insulating tape leaves after some time if you choose to remove it. I don't particularly like the hot glue solution either but I don't see a better alternative.

edit...

Saturday morning eye candy

dscn0107lz.jpg
dscn0101gs.jpg
dscn0118lx.jpg

[thesteve]

ok the pic brings up another point
your amp is sitting on top of digital signals
your signal wires cross power and data traces
shielding the amp and shortening the wires should help
also because that amp uses transistor bias resistors from its 5V supply, the supply needs a large filter cap on the amp board.

[gtsamour]

There is no place onboard without digital signals that an amp can sit on. Actually there aren't many places that the amp can sit on and have the top shell being able to close completely. The location I picked is the most convenient, its flat (no caps there) and the top shell closes. There is also a 2mm thick double sided adhesive tape holding it in place so there is some spacing between the bottom of the amp and the top of the chips it sits on.
The wires cannot get shorter, take a look... no loose cables, straight from source to destination through the shorter possible path. How can they get shorter and reach the desirable points at the same time?

Yes I could shield the amp but I've never seen anyone do it on a PCE rgb mod and somehow, I don't think it will improve much (if any).

Anyway, the system went from "worse Jailbar system" to "best" within my PCE collection so it is a major improvement. Have you managed to make the jailbars completely disapear on your system? (with shieldings or whatever?)

The amp is constructed according to this design http://www.gamesx.com/grafx/pce_rgb.jpg , its supposed to be PCE specific.


The jb aren't coming from the amp, they're comming from the 6260 chip and they were there even without the amp and I'm sure they will still be there on composite even if I disconnect the amp completely (although much weaker because of the tantalum caps). Maybe the 6260 chip needs shielding. Thats how the guy that completely solved the jb issue on the Famicom did it (by shielding the picture generator chip)... complete absense of jb, not the slightest sign of them.

[thesteve]

i have used a few different amp designs
have placed amp on top of slot shield, attached to top cover, and on back of DIN
the jailbars were subtle without the mod, and not seen with.
not seen may not be 100% but its close.
best amp is a simple transistor NPN emitter out, collector power, 5K resistor across a cap to chip pins.
the simplicity of the circuit makes it a low noise amp

[NightWolve]

> /dscn0107lz.jpg

Looks awesome! You know, I had an idea with the vias in my case given that my wires are separate, thin enough, etc. See those 4 vias aligned in square form that are right above your 3rd usage of hot glue going from the 6260 chip ?? Right there I was thinking I'd push the wires upwards and hot glue as well for good measure. That would shorten the path to the amp too! But anyway, yours looks great and you'll never have to flip the PCB over again, so all good!

[gtsamour]

Somehow I doubt shortening the wires by a bit and shielding the amp does make a difference...
At first on my Core II, I added the amp externally to the console (right out of the console, a few cm after the connector), here's the thread with photos https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=9379.0 So no interference from digital signals coming from the PCE board there...
I still had the same intensity jailbars like on other consoles that had the amp internally.
After some time that i managed to make the amp smaller I remoded the Core II and installed the amp inside it. No change as far as jailbars go, exactly the same jailbars.

dscn0025i.jpg

The jailbars were subtle without the mod steve because you were getting picture through composite (or worse through RF). Composite smooths the picture making the JB less visible. RGB mod makes them more clearly visible and not necessarily because an amp "adds" more of them.

My jailbars are hardly visible too, I make comparisons on the initial gaming screen of the Keith Courage game in which the jailbars are more easily to be spoted due to the light blue color of the sky but on any other game only a trained eye can locate them, they are almost invisible but never completely gone.

Don't get me wrong, the theoretical right way to do it is to avoid interference by shortening cables and shielding the amp but practically these two may make no difference. At least I haven't seen any and I've made many trials with the RGB thing.

I have even connected the RGB signals without any amp (bad colours) and noticed that the jailbars were exactly the same (with or without it).

Thats the reason I'm positive that the secret of completely removing the jailbars is doing something to the 6260 chip (like shielding it).

Actually on the TurboGrafx-16 there is a shielded chip by factory but im not sure its the 6260, it probably is... (picture found on the internet)

img0757mediumc.jpg

[thesteve]

its ram i think
the 6260 is not sheilded
the jailbars are on the ground plane and 6260 ref low pin
thats why i have you add a cap across chip power and chip ref low to ground.
near as i can tell the jailbars are being caused primarily by the color encoder circuit, causing current pulses inside the 6260

[gtsamour]

Yes you're right, it's not the 6260 chip that is shielded on the photo. The 6260 is the chip to the most right.

I really wish there will be a way to completely wipe out these pulses so we can all get rid of these damn jailbars The caps are a significant improvement.

To my experience though, and the amp I'm using, there doesn't seem to be any other kind of interference adding up to the jailbars issue. This conclusion comes from several trials I've conducted myself, like comparing the same screen on RGB with or without the amp, with ground on pins 55-56 and with ground on the expansion port's ground or elsewhere, with amp inside or out of the console.
These trials showed no observable difference concerning the jailbars on one way or the other.