Considering collecting for the TG-16, could use some advice...

[Orrimarrko]

Hey Guys,

I've never owned a TG-16, but always wanted to.  I remember when it came out, I was in high school, and it looked pretty cool.  However, I was wrapped up with the NES, and so that was that.

Now that I'm in my early forties, I've decided that I'd like to own one and collect for the system.  Before collecting for any system, I always do my homework, so I know what I'm getting myself into.

I was hoping that some of you experts might be able to help me out a little with some suggestions.  To be honest, this system has always been a little confusing (as opposed to other systems), so I appreciate the help.

Which console is the best option for playing all of the games?  (Meaning, out of the box, what system will allow me to play the majority of titles available for it?)  Will US systems play JPN games or vice-versa?  I know that there are Hu-cards and CD games, but am not sure what system will allow me to plug & play which games without modding.  Where are some recommended places to find the 'suggested' system

Speaking of modding, what is the best connection you can get for any of the systems?  If, for example, the recommended system was a Duo-R, what would be the best connection from the console to the TV?  Can that be improved with a mod, and if so, who generally does great work?

Lastly, about the games...is there a complete list out there of all US Hu Cards and CD games?  What games, if any, were not released in a cardboard box?  Any variants?  What about Japanese games?

Sorry for all of the questions guys - any assistance and suggestions are most welcome.

Thanks!
Orri~

[Arkhan Asylum]

You want to locate:

A region modded USA TurboDuo that's had the sound caps replaced:  It will allow you to play all HuCards and all CD games.   The exception being you can't play SuperGrafx because that's a different console, and you can't play Arcade CD games unless you get the Arcade Card.

A region modded JP Duo-R or Duo-RX:  It will do the same thing as above.


Don't bother screwing around trying to find a Turbo Grafx-16 with working CD hardware.  That's an uphill battle, and a pain in the ass.  You will need to region mod it, and locate a system card just to play Super CD ROM games.    The Duo consoles all have that built in.


Start off with a USA TG-16 so you can play some staple HuCard games and get a feel for the thing, but then definitely upgrade to a Duo of some variety.   Only downside is, without a Turbo Booster (thing that clicks on the back), you can only use RF with the thing.    That kind of blows.


As for video connections.  The best you can get is RGB (with a mod), but it will require a display or an upscaler that can accept it.  If you have a CRT television, the composite will work fine with all of these consoles.   


go to www.pcengine.co.uk for a list of every game.

also go to http://www.thebrothersduomazov.com/ for reviews and stuff.

[jperryss]

Ark pretty much covered it. A region-modded Japanese Duo-R or RX is your one-stop shop and will play the entire library except for Arcade Card (ACD) games, which require an ACD Duo ($25 or so, last I checked). They also don't have the capacitor issues that the US Duos have, so less to worry about. Note that CD games are not region-locked but hucard games are.

If you want to start off small, go with a US TG16 for now, and then pick up a Duo-R/RX later and ACD Duo later. At that point you'll have access to everything and can decide if you want to keep the TG around for US games, or have the Duo-R modded to play US games.

Note that games are not as readily available and cheap as you might find with NES, SNES, etc. The good news is that many games have a more reasonably-priced Japanese (PCE) version and are completely playable even if you don't know the language.

[Orrimarrko]

You want to locate:

A region modded USA TurboDuo that's had the sound caps replaced:  It will allow you to play all HuCards and all CD games.   The exception being you can't play SuperGrafx because that's a different console, and you can't play Arcade CD games unless you get the Arcade Card.

A region modded JP Duo-R or Duo-RX:  It will do the same thing as above.


Don't bother screwing around trying to find a Turbo Grafx-16 with working CD hardware.  That's an uphill battle, and a pain in the ass.  You will need to region mod it, and locate a system card just to play Super CD ROM games.    The Duo consoles all have that built in.


Start off with a USA TG-16 so you can play some staple HuCard games and get a feel for the thing, but then definitely upgrade to a Duo of some variety.   Only downside is, without a Turbo Booster (thing that clicks on the back), you can only use RF with the thing.    That kind of blows.


As for video connections.  The best you can get is RGB (with a mod), but it will require a display or an upscaler that can accept it.  If you have a CRT television, the composite will work fine with all of these consoles.   


go to www.pcengine.co.uk for a list of every game.

also go to http://www.thebrothersduomazov.com/ for reviews and stuff.

Thank you for the info and reference links!

[Nazi NecroPhile]

+1 to what Ark said about hardware, though I recommend getting a PCE Duo-R/RX or recapped PCE Duo and spending the savings vs. a US Duo on games.

...what system will allow me to plug & play which games without modding.

No such thing.  CDs are region free but HuCARDs are not, so all systems will require some sort of region converter for hueys.  

Speaking of modding, what is the best connection you can get for any of the systems?  If, for example, the recommended system was a Duo-R, what would be the best connection from the console to the TV?  Can that be improved with a mod, and if so, who generally does great work?

Composite is the best out of the box, but it can be modded for s-video, component, or RGB (in order of image quality).  Which one is best is entirely dependent on what kind of TV/monitor you'll be using (i.e. few US TVs take RGB).

Lastly, about the games...is there a complete list out there of all US Hu Cards and CD games?

PCE Daisakusen, the PC Engine Bible, and PCECP all list each region's game libraries and formats.

What games, if any, were not released in a cardboard box?

All US HuCARDs except Keith Courage and the two system cards came in cardboard boxes; all CD games except Buster Bros., Splash Lake, Vasteel, the three unofficial titteh discs (Bikini Girls, Hawaiian Island Girls, and Local Girls of Hawaii), Sherlock Holmes 2, and Syd Mead's Terraforming (the latter two labeled as SuperCD but actually plain CD games) came in cardboard boxes; and no Super CD games came in cardboard boxes, though Exile Wicked Phenomenon did come in a paper sleeve thing (as did Vasteel).

[Orrimarrko]

Ark pretty much covered it. A region-modded Japanese Duo-R or RX is your one-stop shop and will play the entire library except for Arcade Card (ACD) games, which require an ACD Duo ($25 or so, last I checked). They also don't have the capacitor issues that the US Duos have, so less to worry about. Note that CD games are not region-locked but hucard games are.

If you want to start off small, go with a US TG16 for now, and then pick up a Duo-R/RX later and ACD Duo later. At that point you'll have access to everything and can decide if you want to keep the TG around for US games, or have the Duo-R modded to play US games.

Note that games are not as readily available and cheap as you might find with NES, SNES, etc. The good news is that many games have a more reasonably-priced Japanese (PCE) version and are completely playable even if you don't know the language.

Good to know.  So the Duo-R will play all CD games (regardless of region.)  It will play all JPN Hu Cards, but can be modded to play US ones as well.  If I get the Arcade Duo card, I can play those games as well.  Sound about right?

[Orrimarrko]

RoyVegas, the lucky ****, opened a complete set of sealed games and shared the pics with the community.  Can't beat this for reference of which games came with what.

http://s667.photobucket.com/user/royvegas/library/Turbografx%20Games%20Reference

WOW - that's VERY helpful!!  Thanks for the link!

Looking at this - this is a US complete set, correct?

Also, I noticed that some games don't come with a cardboard box.  Was that something that occurred later in the system's life?  Just wondering why some do and some don't.

Thanks!

[turboswimbz]

Ark pretty much covered it. A region-modded Japanese Duo-R or RX is your one-stop shop and will play the entire library except for Arcade Card (ACD) games, which require an ACD Duo ($25 or so, last I checked). They also don't have the capacitor issues that the US Duos have, so less to worry about. Note that CD games are not region-locked but hucard games are.

If you want to start off small, go with a US TG16 for now, and then pick up a Duo-R/RX later and ACD Duo later. At that point you'll have access to everything and can decide if you want to keep the TG around for US games, or have the Duo-R modded to play US games.

Note that games are not as readily available and cheap as you might find with NES, SNES, etc. The good news is that many games have a more reasonably-priced Japanese (PCE) version and are completely playable even if you don't know the language.

Good to know.  So the Duo-R will play all CD games (regardless of region.)  It will play all JPN Hu Cards, but can be modded to play US ones as well.  If I get the Arcade Duo card, I can play those games as well.  Sound about right?

Yep you got it right it seems:

Any turbo/PCE cd player will play all the CD games regardless of region.  The CD was a new format at the time and didn't contain any region lock.

THe Arcade Card will let you PLAY arcade CD games, It contains the DUOs have hardware inside to play all the other types of CD's

[Orrimarrko]

+1 to what Ark said about hardware, though I recommend getting a PCE Duo-R/RX or recapped PCE Duo and spending the savings vs. a US Duo on games.

...what system will allow me to plug & play which games without modding.

No such thing.  CDs are region free but HuCARDs are not, so all systems will require some sort of region converter for hueys. 

Speaking of modding, what is the best connection you can get for any of the systems?  If, for example, the recommended system was a Duo-R, what would be the best connection from the console to the TV?  Can that be improved with a mod, and if so, who generally does great work?

Composite is the best out of the box, but it can be modded for s-video, component, or RGB (in order of image quality).  Which one is best is entirely dependent on what kind of TV/monitor you'll be using (i.e. few US TVs take RGB).

Lastly, about the games...is there a complete list out there of all US Hu Cards and CD games?

PCE Daisakusen, the PC Engine Bible, and PCECP all list each region's game libraries and formats.

What games, if any, were not released in a cardboard box?

All US HuCARDs except Keith Courage and the two system cards came in cardboard boxes; all CD games except Buster Bros., Splash Lake, Vasteel, the three unofficial titteh discs (Bikini Girls, Hawaiian Island Girls, and Local Girls of Hawaii), Sherlock Holmes 2, and Syd Mead's Terraforming (the latter two labeled as SuperCD but actually plain CD games) came in cardboard boxes; and no Super CD games came in cardboard boxes, though Exile Wicked Phenomenon did come in a paper sleeve thing (as did Vasteel).

Thank you for the additional info - especially the last section.

Anyone know the best place to start shopping for a nice, complete Duo-R? (With or without mods?)  I don't care for eBay much, so I'd like to avoid there if possible.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Poke around on here, someone might have one for sale.

or just check Yahoo.jp auctions and use a proxy bidder like Celga to get it to you.  I scored a boxed Duo-R for like, 65$ once.

[jperryss]

Anyone know the best place to start shopping for a nice, complete Duo-R? (With or without mods?)  I don't care for eBay much, so I'd like to avoid there if possible.

People like to hate on eBay here but several of us have gotten our systems there. Sellers doujindance and hit-japan (where I got my unmodded Duo-R in 2008) seem popular here, but I think doujin's mod work has been questioned a few times. Also, shipping costs from Japan can get painful, $60-80 is not uncommon.

[Nazi NecroPhile]

Check with member Keith Courage.  He refurbs Duos and can add whatever region mod or video upgrade you want.

[Orrimarrko]

Thanks for the system purchase suggestions guys.  I usually prefer minty/cib systems whenever possible, so I'll have to keep my eyes open.

[ToyMachine78]

RoyVegas, the lucky ****, opened a complete set of sealed games and shared the pics with the community.  Can't beat this for reference of which games came with what.

http://s667.photobucket.com/user/royvegas/library/Turbografx%20Games%20Reference

Where/how did he get a complete set of sealed games?

[hoobs88]

RoyVegas, the lucky ****, opened a complete set of sealed games and shared the pics with the community.  Can't beat this for reference of which games came with what.

http://s667.photobucket.com/user/royvegas/library/Turbografx%20Games%20Reference

Where/how did he get a complete set of sealed games?

He just photographed his complete games (as if they were just unsealed) so people would know exactly how "complete" their games were.

[CrackTiger]

Anyone know the best place to start shopping for a nice, complete Duo-R? (With or without mods?)  I don't care for eBay much, so I'd like to avoid there if possible.

People like to hate on eBay here but several of us have gotten our systems there. Sellers doujindance and hit-japan (where I got my unmodded Duo-R in 2008) seem popular here, but I think doujin's mod work has been questioned a few times. Also, shipping costs from Japan can get painful, $60-80 is not uncommon.

Once I finally got a chance to properly test my latest Duo from doujindance and compare the picture quality to the PCE system I had Apolloboy mod, it's confirmed that the s-video ouput is garbage and ruined in several ways. I will never buy from him again.

[esteban]

Welcome, comrade.

[Orrimarrko]

Anyone know the best place to start shopping for a nice, complete Duo-R? (With or without mods?)  I don't care for eBay much, so I'd like to avoid there if possible.

People like to hate on eBay here but several of us have gotten our systems there. Sellers doujindance and hit-japan (where I got my unmodded Duo-R in 2008) seem popular here, but I think doujin's mod work has been questioned a few times. Also, shipping costs from Japan can get painful, $60-80 is not uncommon.

Once I finally got a chance to properly test my latest Duo from doujindance and compare the picture quality to the PCE system I had Apolloboy mod, it's confirmed that the s-video ouput is garbage and ruined in several ways. I will never buy from him again.

Good to know... (sorry about your issue though.)

[Orrimarrko]

Welcome, comrade.

Danke!

[munchiaz]

I wish apollo still did mods

[SuperPlay]

Hi Orri

Welcome :-)

Are you going to try to collect a full games set?  If so expect to pay some top (way over the top) $$$ for certain titles.

Also take a look at my links thread, although heavily PC engine focused there is plenty of Turbo goodness there.

https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=9483.0

[FiftyQuid]

You want to locate:

A region modded USA TurboDuo that's had the sound caps replaced:  It will allow you to play all HuCards and all CD games.   The exception being you can't play SuperGrafx because that's a different console, and you can't play Arcade CD games unless you get the Arcade Card.

A region modded JP Duo-R or Duo-RX:  It will do the same thing as above.


Don't bother screwing around trying to find a Turbo Grafx-16 with working CD hardware.  That's an uphill battle, and a pain in the ass.  You will need to region mod it, and locate a system card just to play Super CD ROM games.    The Duo consoles all have that built in.


Start off with a USA TG-16 so you can play some staple HuCard games and get a feel for the thing, but then definitely upgrade to a Duo of some variety.   Only downside is, without a Turbo Booster (thing that clicks on the back), you can only use RF with the thing.    That kind of blows.


As for video connections.  The best you can get is RGB (with a mod), but it will require a display or an upscaler that can accept it.  If you have a CRT television, the composite will work fine with all of these consoles.   


go to www.pcengine.co.uk for a list of every game.

also go to http://www.thebrothersduomazov.com/ for reviews and stuff.

Arkham nailed it.  The only thing I would add to what he said is avoid these guys;

wmacmonagle
canada

[Orrimarrko]

Hi Orri

Welcome :-)

Are you going to try to collect a full games set?  If so expect to pay some top (way over the top) $$$ for certain titles.

Also take a look at my links thread, although heavily PC engine focused there is plenty of Turbo goodness there.

https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=9483.0

Thanks!  If I collect, it would be to complete a US set first, and then go from there.

Thanks for the link to your links page - helpful stuff!

[Orrimarrko]

You want to locate:

A region modded USA TurboDuo that's had the sound caps replaced:  It will allow you to play all HuCards and all CD games.   The exception being you can't play SuperGrafx because that's a different console, and you can't play Arcade CD games unless you get the Arcade Card.

A region modded JP Duo-R or Duo-RX:  It will do the same thing as above.


Don't bother screwing around trying to find a Turbo Grafx-16 with working CD hardware.  That's an uphill battle, and a pain in the ass.  You will need to region mod it, and locate a system card just to play Super CD ROM games.    The Duo consoles all have that built in.


Start off with a USA TG-16 so you can play some staple HuCard games and get a feel for the thing, but then definitely upgrade to a Duo of some variety.   Only downside is, without a Turbo Booster (thing that clicks on the back), you can only use RF with the thing.    That kind of blows.


As for video connections.  The best you can get is RGB (with a mod), but it will require a display or an upscaler that can accept it.  If you have a CRT television, the composite will work fine with all of these consoles.   


go to www.pcengine.co.uk for a list of every game.

also go to http://www.thebrothersduomazov.com/ for reviews and stuff.

Arkham nailed it.  The only thing I would add to what he said is avoid these guys;

wmacmonagle
canada

Thanks for the warning.  Have to find a system first, so it's good to know who not to deal with. ;)

[Otaking]

If I collect, it would be to complete US set first

That will require deep pockets as US Magical Chase recently has gone for ludicrous amounts of money, the price seems to be going up and up.
I would recommend the cheaper PC Engine alternatives where the US priced games are silly.

[Orrimarrko]

If I collect, it would be to complete US set first

That will require deep pockets as US Magical Chase recently has gone for ludicrous amounts of money, the price seems to be going up and up.
I would recommend the cheaper PC Engine alternatives where the US priced games are silly.

I know; I saw the last one, which is why I'm 'considering' collecting the set.

[CrackTiger]

If you're into "set" collecting, the TurboGrafx-16 is still far cheaper and easier to put together than other popular console libraries. Magical Chase can be pricey on its own, but likely costs less than the 100 most expensive SNES games combined.

[jperryss]

If you're into "set" collecting, the TurboGrafx-16 is still far cheaper and easier to put together than other popular console libraries. Magical Chase can be pricey on its own, but likely costs less than the 100 most expensive SNES games combined.

The smaller size of the TG set should make it easier, but it seems like there are far more people trying to complete a TG set (probably because it "looks easy" at only 150 titles) and therefore lots of demand and very little supply for those top titles like MC, DH, Beyond Shadowgate, Tonma, and the three boobie games.

In fairness, that probably applies to other consoles too. I wouldn't know because I don't collect fullsets, I collect to play.

The nice thing about TG/PCE collecting is that it's easier to find "complete" (case, manual, card) versions of games. I imagine very few people threw the case away when they got home, like you might do with the cardboard box your SNES game came in.

[Orrimarrko]

Ok, question (since I've seen this listed referred to twice now.)

What constitutes a 'complete set' of games?  There are US Hu Card and CD titles, but I thought that number was less than 150.  Am I mistaken?

What do you guys use when referring to 'the set'?  And what 'boobie games' do you mean?

Thanks,
Orri~

[turboswimbz]

Ok, question (since I've seen this listed referred to twice now.)

What constitutes a 'complete set' of games?  There are US Hu Card and CD titles, but I thought that number was less than 150.  Am I mistaken?

What do you guys use when referring to 'the set'?  And what 'boobie games' do you mean?

Thanks,
Orri~

OH JEEZ. NOT THIS ARGUMENT AGAIN

IT IS WHAT EVER YOU WANT IT TO BE.

[Orrimarrko]

Ok, question (since I've seen this listed referred to twice now.)

What constitutes a 'complete set' of games?  There are US Hu Card and CD titles, but I thought that number was less than 150.  Am I mistaken?

What do you guys use when referring to 'the set'?  And what 'boobie games' do you mean?

Thanks,
Orri~

OH JEEZ. NOT THIS ARGUMENT AGAIN

IT IS WHAT EVER YOU WANT IT TO BE.

It's not an argument...jeez.

I'm asking a question, as I'm new to TG-16 collecting, not collecting in general.

I heard on a Youtube video that there were 94 games released in the US.  I don't know if they meant HuCards or total games, so I was looking for clarification.

If you don't want to help, don't.

[turboswimbz]

That's US HuCards only.

And not you the other tards on here. last time this came up it was a big ol' CF.

[Orrimarrko]

That's US HuCards only.

And not you the other tards on here. last time this came up it was a big ol' CF.

Ok, thanks.  So if there are 94 HuCards, how many US CDs are there?  (And what are the 'boobie' games? Haven't heard of those.)

[Nazi NecroPhile]

You know, there's always search or visiting the aforementioned PCE Daisakusen. 

They list 146 total 'games' - 94 HuCARD games, 50 CD games, and 2 system cards.  Included in that total are five unofficial games (Bikini Girls, Hawaiian Island Girls, Implode, Local Girls of Hawaii, and Meteor Blaster DX) and one not for sale game (Lords of Thunder demo), so it'd be 138 official retail games for the TG-16/CD.  The total goes up from there if you want to include unofficial, homebrew, not for resale, variants, and/or LaserActive games.

[turboswimbz]

Necro beat me to it.

In addtion there were numerous harware releases for each of those. 

Addtional USA Hombrew CD Games include Insanity, Pyramid PLunder, and Mysterious Song. if you want to include them.

[Orrimarrko]

You know, there's always search or visiting the aforementioned PCE Daisakusen. 

They list 146 total 'games' - 94 HuCARD games, 50 CD games, and 2 system cards.  Included in that total are five unofficial games (Bikini Girls, Hawaiian Island Girls, Implode, Local Girls of Hawaii, and Meteor Blaster DX) and one not for sale game (Lords of Thunder demo), so it'd be 138 official retail games for the TG-16/CD.  The total goes up from there if you want to include unofficial, homebrew, not for resale, variants, and/or LaserActive games.

You're right, I was being lazy.  Sorry about that, but thanks for the info.

[Orrimarrko]

Necro beat me to it.

In addtion there were numerous harware releases for each of those. 

Addtional USA Hombrew CD Games include Insanity, Pyramid PLunder, and Mysterious Song. if you want to include them. 

Cool, good to know.  Thanks for the extra info.

[Nazi NecroPhile]

Insanity and Pyramid Plunder were made in the USA, but they're labeled as PC Engine games.

[turboswimbz]

Yeah I forgot about that.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Insanity and Pyramid Plunder were made in the USA, but they're labeled as PC Engine games.

Yeah.  The people that made those two games are a bunch of idiots.   

>_>

[esteban]

HOLY CR*P! How did I miss syphic (that bastard!) getting a Vistar!  Holy cr*p!

[Orrimarrko]

HOLY CR*P! How did I miss syphic (that bastard!) getting a Vistar!  Holy cr*p!

What's a Vistar (and why is that a big deal?)

[esteban]

HOLY CR*P! How did I miss syphic (that bastard!) getting a Vistar!  Holy cr*p!

What's a Vistar (and why is that a big deal?)

Korean TG-16 Collection is most difficult to obtain, according to me. Re-badged US HuCARDs have yet to be fully documented...

ALSO: I don't know what happened, but my post was intended for a different thread...not sure how it ended up here. Weird.

[Orrimarrko]

HOLY CR*P! How did I miss syphic (that bastard!) getting a Vistar!  Holy cr*p!

What's a Vistar (and why is that a big deal?)

Korean TG-16 Collection is most difficult to obtain, according to me. Re-badged US HuCARDs have yet to be fully documented...

ALSO: I don't know what happened, but my post was intended for a different thread...not sure how it ended up here. Weird.

So Vistar was a Korean release?  (What is a 're-badged US HuCARD'?)

[PunkCryborg]

THIS IS VISTAR !!!!!!!!

[Orrimarrko]

THIS IS VISTAR !!!!!!!!

Oh, it's a system!  Sorry, thought it might be a game.

[Otaking]

What's a Vistar (and why is that a big deal?)

[Orrimarrko]

Hey Guys,

So, I've finally bit the bullet and bought a PC-Engine DUO-R, modded for US Turbo HuCards and RGB,  by Doujindance.

I had to start somewhere, and I've seen some positive reviews.  If there is someone out there better, who is doing the same mods, let me know (please.)

Once it arrives, I'll want to have a couple of games ready to play.

If possible, I'd love to hear from some folks what games are considered 'must haves' to play.  Nothing too expensive, mind you, just games that are generally considered fun to play.

Which brings me to my next couple of questions:

1.  What constitutes a complete PC Engine game?  Did they come with cardboard boxes, or just the 'jewel-type' case, and an obi strip?

2.  For US games, I'm looking for complete and minty - anyone have a seller or reputable dealer to suggest that won't overcharge?

3.  What PC engine games would be great to start out with (card or CD)?  Since I posted this last year, I've done a bunch of homework on the US stuff, but not as much on the Japanese releases.

Thanks!

I hope you're all having a great holiday season.

Cheers,
Orri~

[cr8zykuban0]

good choice on the  duo r. I own one and I personally love it.

a compmete pc engine game came in jewel cases. no cardboards

for u.s. games, going the complete in case route is much cheaper. for complete with box, someone on the market was selling sealed tg games

I would check out the bomberman games, the soldier shmup games, and bonk games. there are a lot of great shoot em up games you can find for cheap as well

[Nazi NecroPhile]

Like cube said, PCE games came in plain jewel cases..... for the most part.  There are a few exceptions to the rule, however, like those that came in boxes bundled with other goodies (Forgotten Worlds with a Ave3 pad, 3x3 Eyes with a short VHS tape, Pachiokun whatever with the pachinko controller, etc.), games that came in magazines/booklets (Motteke Tamago, Seiya Monogatari mook, etc.), or Idol Hanafuda Fan Club and its weird plastic clamshell (similar to a big PC-FX case).

As for game suggestions, there's a plethora of 'best of' and 'top ten' threads that you can wade through to find games in particular genre's that interest you.