spreading tg16 like a virus

[escarioth]

I always though since the old days that a TG16 could step up to nintendo and sega back then.
Sadly, so many people never even heard about this game console... its quite surprising. I dont know about you guys from diferent places and countrys, but at my place.. i guess we were'nt that many. Only met 5 people so far...  (face to face)

And now, years later. When i find someone crazy about nintendo & sega....
without a TG16/duo. the fun really start.

The look on their face when i make them play bonk, legendary axe, castlevania or lord of thunder. They totally freak out and weeks later have a TG16 at their home. Makes me wonder how things would be now if many more people would have fell in love with it sooner.

[VestCunt]

Makes me wonder how things would be now if many more people would have fell in love with it sooner.

It wouldn't have made any difference because game quality wasn't a big motivator for mainstream gamers back then (and now). Gamers wanted hype. They wanted shock and awe. Mega power. Mode 7. Blast processing. Whatever promised to be the most cutting edge technology so they could bedazzle their friends. Whatever had the biggest mascot franchise. They wanted whatever their friends wanted and they wanted to own it first and bask in envy. They didn't want a weird underdog system to introduce to their friends, they wanted what their friends had seen on TV and were drooling over. They wanted to walk into school after christmas break and tell everyone that they owned the new Nintendo, or Street Fighter 2, or whatever. They wanted to be better than their friends at all of the popular games.

These days it's kind of the opposite. Mainstream gamers want to impress their aging Gen X and Millennial peers with obscurity, not popularity. Hidden gems, not blockbusters. Campy retro graphics. Nostalgia instead of state of the art. Collection size over gaming prowess.

Game quality has always taken a back seat to petty bullshit.

[escarioth]

Yeah but the cd Games were very impressives for the time dont you think ?
i read some infos in books relating to the NEC against nintendo back in japan.
And pc engine was scaring the shit out of Hiroshi Yamauchi. but ..well is this really true ? i can't say.

And when you look at games like YS or even gate/lord of thunder and some others...i guess the
"wow" effect was there in some games..... oh well

but i understand what you mean, back in the old days it was a diferent way of thinking

[clackattack]

Ya it seems like the ad campaigns back then were fashioned around promoting the titles and names instead of the hardware itself. That piled on top of the fact that gaming was more of an underground following at the time, and that kids had to leave the decision making to mom and dad, big names and franchises always came in for the win. And dont forget, when the Turbografx dropped over here in the states, it cost twice as much as any of its competitor's console did.

[NecroPhile]

And dont forget, when the Turbografx dropped over here in the states, it cost twice as much as any of its competitor's console did.   

False.  It was $200 at launch, $10 more than the Genesis.

[escarioth]

I remember here in quebec , we had only a tv spot to promote the console...
and Radio shack 

[o.pwuaioc]

It wouldn't have made any difference because game quality wasn't a big motivator for mainstream gamers back then (and now). Gamers wanted hype. They wanted shock and awe. Mega power. Mode 7. Blast processing. Whatever promised to be the most cutting edge technology so they could bedazzle their friends. Whatever had the biggest mascot franchise. They wanted whatever their friends wanted and they wanted to own it first and bask in envy. They didn't want a weird underdog system to introduce to their friends, they wanted what their friends had seen on TV and were drooling over.

I'm not sure that's exactly true. The popular games thing, sure, though that's still largely true. But the ad stuff? Many mascots died, and the reason Sega's and Nintendo's were so popular was because the games they in which they were featured were actually good. Sega may have touted "Blast Processing" and Nintendo their "mode 7", but more than anything, they touted their games. I think that's why the Jaguar and 32X never bothered to get off the ground. Yeah, they were the "new, cool technology!" but they had fuck-all for games. There is a grand total of five 32X games I own/want to own, and maybe 5 for the Jaguar, which is so little, a Jaguar I will never get. (And that sucks, too, because the classic Jaguar is my dream car.)

It's really just the combination of good advertising and great games. I think the tech factor played into it very little (except perhaps in a few vocal corners).

[FiftyQuid]

I remember here in quebec , we had only a tv spot to promote the console...
and Radio shack 

This is true, but back then was when Radio Shack actually had decent shit.  You can't walk into a local Radio Shack The Source in Canada now and find anything you need that you couldn't get somewhere else for $100 cheaper.  Two years ago I walked into The Source and asked the salesperson for flux.  He looked at me like my cock was hanging out of my pants.  First I had to tell him what flux was, then I had to tell him it was used for soldering.  Then he finally showed me were the soldering 'section' was.  1 iron, bundled with 3 inches of solder, and a desolder for $40. 

I left and never went back.  My point being, back then Radio Shack had cool and unique items.  Now they are just a carbon copy of every other garbage store, at least in Canada.

[CrackTiger]

Ya it seems like the ad campaigns back then were fashioned around promoting the titles and names instead of the hardware itself. That piled on top of the fact that gaming was more of an underground following at the time, and that kids had to leave the decision making to mom and dad, big names and franchises always came in for the win. And dont forget, when the Turbografx dropped over here in the states, it cost twice as much as any of its competitor's console did.

I'm always curious where people hear this kind of random misinformation.

Like how the Turbo-CD is dismissed by revisionist historians/Nintendolots as a "$400 mistake", when in reality a TG-16 + Turbo-CD
cost as much as a SNES when it launched.

[Medic_wheat]

I think the reason we are seeing more people with a TG-16 or quickly picking one up now a days is:

A)  we are mostly in our 30s and have a little disposable income

B)  the TG-16 is still in that gray zone of collectability before MASSIVE overcharging for games and systems. Tgis seems to be going tits up as general knowledge and increase in interest have made some games become silly expensive.

C)  the internet has made finding games and systems easyer then what most would ever hope to find locally.

[clackattack]

I definately remember Electronics Boutique in my town advertising the TG16 for $299.99 when they got them in... the more I think about it tho, it may have been a bundle deal. EB used to like doing bundles with consoles.

Ill NEVER Forget my dreamcast bundle I bought from them for $69.99... came with a second OEM controller and any game of my choice!

[escarioth]

I left and never went back.  My point being, back then Radio Shack had cool and unique items.  Now they are just a carbon copy of every other garbage store, at least in Canada.

same here... i was going there much more before they called themselves "la source"

[seieienbu]

My TG16 was a gift so I don't know how much it cost, but I seem to recall my Turbo CD costing $199 from McDuff Electronics when I got it.  Assuming $190 for a Turbo, then it + the CD add-on would cost almost $400...

[schweaty]

The reason TG-16 failed in NA was that it came out too damn late.  If it had come out here the same time it came out in Japan (1987 instead of 1989) they would have blown away anything else in the market at the time.  Hudson Soft could have established itself in 1987/88 as THE console to have.  A strong customer base could have set them up for years to come just like it did in Japan.  Unfortunately, Japan was not a large enough market to establish themselves on the same footing internationally as Nintendo. 

Just think of all the the third party software support if they had usurped Nintendo in 1987.   By 1989 when the Sega Genesis came along they could have overcame their hardware deficiencies with the CD drive and Supergrafx but by then, it was really too late.  Unfortunately, they waited until 1989 (when it was beginning to become obsolete technology), marketed it poorly, and never really committed to the NA market.  It was doomed from the start.

[jlued686]

I actually wound up getting the TurboGrafx-16 because at the store I bought it, it was cheaper than the Genesis. My Dad and I brought the Genesis up to the counter, and it rang up at like $230 or something. My Dad asked if I'd mind getting "that other one" instead, and I said sure. Great choice!

Regarding the why and why not of its failure, that's been debated here for years. My answer is always the same: software and distribution. The TG16 had some great games, yeah. But Nintendo had a lock on third parties, and Sega had the sports thing down pat, along with their killer first party lineup. And, as the Genesis picked up steam, the third party issue went away. Of course, the TG16 was dead in the water by then. Further, they didn't bring enough great games from Japan. And secondly, I grew up in a small town and there wasn't a store within a 2-3 hour radius that carried Turbo games. We had WalMart, Radio Shack, KB Toys...but not one of them carried Turbo games. Luckily, my step-dad was a truck driver, so I'd send him off with a list of games, and he'd stop at Toys R' Us while out on his route. Beyond that, I was fucked. I knew of one other kid in my town who had a Turbografx. That's it.

[Gentlegamer]

The reason TG-16 failed in NA was that it came out too damn late.  If it had come out here the same time it came out in Japan (1987 instead of 1989) they would have blown away anything else in the market at the time.  Hudson Soft could have established itself in 1987/88 as THE console to have.  A strong customer base could have set them up for years to come just like it did in Japan.  Unfortunately, Japan was not a large enough market to establish themselves on the same footing internationally as Nintendo. 

Just think of all the the third party software support if they had usurped Nintendo in 1987.   By 1989 when the Sega Genesis came along they could have overcame their hardware deficiencies with the CD drive and Supergrafx but by then, it was really too late.  Unfortunately, they waited until 1989 (when it was beginning to become obsolete technology), marketed it poorly, and never really committed to the NA market.  It was doomed from the start.

NA was still reeling from the Video Game Crash, and it took the herculean efforts of Nintendo to revive it. So bringing it in 1987 would have been even less successful.

[CrackTiger]

My TG16 was a gift so I don't know how much it cost, but I seem to recall my Turbo CD costing $199 from McDuff Electronics when I got it.  Assuming $190 for a Turbo, then it + the CD add-on would cost almost $400...

If the Turbo-CD was already that low, then the TG-16 would have been <$99.99.


DO THE MATH






In 1991 the TurboExpress + 4 games retailed for $199.







These images are immorally hotlinked from tg-16.com.

[ctophil]

It would be interesting if the scenario changed around--Sega Genesis failed, while Turbografx-16 went head-to-head with the SNES.  Or the SNES failed and we would have Sega vs. NEC wars. 

My first 16-bit console was the SNES.  Yeah, I was a Nintendo fanboy.  But what would happen if NEC became a big hit?  I could of been an NEC fanboy and so would millions of other gamers.  Video game history would change a lot.  What if NEC was the Nintendo of today?  NEC would still be making Turbografx-512 or something like that.  Sony wouldn't have started the Playstation at all.  Because guess what?  The only reason why Sony created the Playstation was because they were working with Nintendo to make the SNES a CD-Rom based system.  Sony took the blueprints of the potential SNES CD and made the Playstation.  NEC already had the Turbo CD add-on.  Why would they work with Sony?

Microsoft would probably still make Xbox.  So you would probably have a modern scenario as NEC vs Microsoft vs Nintendo.  It's interesting to imagine what NEC would be doing these days to innovate and compete if the Turbografx-16 became a huge hit.

[vexcollects]

Yep. Radio Shack in Canada. I remember going to Radio Shack when I had my first TG16. I also remember the bin of blow out sale games (in boxes) right before the end. I also remember how I looked at those and thought, I don't need these anymore because I have a whateverconsolewaspopular system now. Me in my youth! So dumb.

I think it probably failed for a combo of reasons. Kids (parents) bought game systems and other kids didn't talk about the TG16. Kids wanted Mario and Sonic not Keith Courage. Maybe it wasn't promoted enough, or not featured in the right stores. Maybe the big N and Sega paid more for advertising.

I worked at EBgames about 14 years ago. I remember how hard it was to convince someone that the Dreamcast was actually a great system and the PS2 at the time was not that great (PS2 had just been released, we saw a lot of broken units, graphics were visibly worse in the early cross platform games (IE: Dead or Alive)). I remember a lady said to me once while buying a new PS2, "What is a Dreamcast? Isn't that just a knock off PS2?" The ignorance shattered my soul since the Dreamcast had been around for a while already. I nearly strangled her with my lanyard.

Point is, people follow people. One shiny object pulls two people in one direction, four more follow, and 20 more follow them. It was bad luck for the TG16. Maybe it just didn't seem as shiny at the time.

Look at Apple. They were so shiny and still are. You could tell people that a puppy will die each time you purchase an iPad and they'd still buy 2 each. Maybe even brag about how they bested the mortality of a puppy for that sweet white monolith.

[escarioth]

Yep. Radio Shack in Canada. I remember going to Radio Shack when I had my first TG16. I also remember the bin of blow out sale games (in boxes) right before the end.

Haha that made me remember something funny  back then at radio shack,
my friend wanted to buy neutopia...but his little sister kept whinning never having games to play
so his parent asked him to buy instead a game for the whole family...and he got Darkwing duck....

even today , he still remember that choice and he get pretty mad 

[jordan_hillman]

I think that's why the Jaguar and 32X never bothered to get off the ground. Yeah, they were the "new, cool technology!" but they had fuck-all for games. There is a grand total of five 32X games I own/want to own, and maybe 5 for the Jaguar, which is so little, a Jaguar I will never get.

I owned a jaguar and a decent amount of games for it, and let me tell you: the only two games worth owning on that shit box are Alien vs Predator and Tempest 2000. Nothing else is worth a damn. About 9 months or so ago I traded my total Jaguar collection, and a few other things I can't recall, for a copy of Dungeon Explorer 2, Soldier Blade, Neutopia II, and some other kick ass more common TG titles, and I couldn't be more happy.

Long story short, TG kicks ass!

[escarioth]

I owned a jaguar and a decent amount of games for it, and let me tell you: the only two games worth owning on that shit box are Alien vs Predator and Tempest 2000. Nothing else is worth a damn. About 9 months or so ago I traded my total Jaguar collection, and a few other things I can't recall, for a copy of Dungeon Explorer 2, Soldier Blade, Neutopia II, and some other kick ass more common TG titles, and I couldn't be more happy.

Music to my ears...seriously a friend of mine keep telling me how GREAT a jaguar is...and seriously... every games he keeps making me play...are either ok...or just plainly bad. 

[seieienbu]

I loooove Tempest 2000.  Aside from it, Aliens vs. Predator, Wolfenstein, Doom, and Raiden are pretty good.  Every other Jaguar game that I've played is somewhere between mediocre to awful.

There's also a surprisingly robust homebrew scene for the Jaguar too.  Considering how hard programming for the system was reputed, I find that quite surprising.

[VestCunt]

Dear clackattack, seieienbu, and other noobs: it doesn't matter what you remember seeing a TG16 priced at in your local store.
1) your memory sucks and none of you have even mentioned the year
2) between official price drops and individual store sales and added bundle deals, a random price without a date from Bumfuck, USA means nothing.

This isn't that hard. Use the internet and cite sources.  Or dig through whatever EMG magazines, scans, TG16 books, and JC Penny Catalogs you have lying around.

Launch prices were:
TG16 $199 (confirmed widely on internet)
TGCD $399 (Bantam Encyclopedia + internets)
TE $299 (Bantam Encyclopedia, EGM, + internets)
TurboDuo $299 (official mailings, EGM, + internets)

The TG16 launch price was comparable to that of the NES, SNES, and Genesis. I don't care to lookup all of the price drops, but by the '91 holiday season, the TG16 had dropped to $99 and the CD-ROM to $299, according to EGM's 1992 Buyer's Guide.

The reason TG-16 failed in NA was that it came out too damn late.  If it had come out here the same time it came out in Japan (1987 instead of 1989) they would have blown away anything else in the market at the time.  Hudson Soft could have established itself in 1987/88 as THE console to have.  A strong customer base could have set them up for years to come just like it did in Japan.  Unfortunately, Japan was not a large enough market to establish themselves on the same footing internationally as Nintendo. 

Just think of all the the third party software support if they had usurped Nintendo in 1987.   By 1989 when the Sega Genesis came along they could have overcame their hardware deficiencies with the CD drive and Supergrafx but by then, it was really too late.  Unfortunately, they waited until 1989 (when it was beginning to become obsolete technology), marketed it poorly, and never really committed to the NA market.  It was doomed from the start.

U.S. consoles were ALWAYS released a year or so after their Japanese versions back then. The NES came out twenty-seven months after the Famicom. The TG16 came out twenty-two months after the PC Engine. The Genesis came out ten months after the MegaDrive. The SNES came out nine months after the Super Famicom. True, the TG16 had a slightly longer turnaround than its later competitors, but when you throw around the "1987" release date, remember that the PC Engine was an extremely slow starter with only five games released that year. Software didn't pick up until mid-1988. Even Bantam's officially-licensed TurboGrafx Encyclopedia says the PC Engine was released in 1988.

Regardless, your claim that the TG16 should have received a simultaneous, insta-release in 1987 so it could beat the Genesis' usual ten-month delay after the Mega Drive is a double standard and absurd, as are your claims about its deficiencies and obsolescence. The PC Engine was one of the longest-lived consoles of its era. The SuperGrafx was abandoned because the PC Engine wasn't obsolete. The PCE's huge library of stunning shooters, RPG's, and fighting games show no hardware deficiencies as bad as Genesis color mud or SNES slowdown.

There are plenty of reasons why the TG16 failed, but get your facts straight and stop regurgitating the "doomed from the start" crap you hear on youtube.

[escarioth]

There are plenty of reasons why the TG16 failed, but get your facts straight and stop regurgitating the "doomed from the start" crap you hear on youtube.

I dont agree on that "doomed from the start" too. 

[vexcollects]

I'm just looking for my stack of JC Penny catalogs from the late 80's to confirm prices. Oh wait....I'm in a city that doesn't have one. That's probably why I can't find them. Weird, cause I thought I saw them next to my Ralph's grocery flyers from 1990-1993. Damn.

[schweaty]

U.S. consoles were ALWAYS released a year or so after their Japanese versions back then. The NES came out twenty-seven months after the Famicom. The TG16 came out twenty-two months after the PC Engine. The Genesis came out ten months after the MegaDrive. The SNES came out nine months after the Super Famicom. True, the TG16 had a slightly longer turnaround than its later competitors, but when you throw around the "1987" release date, remember that the PC Engine was an extremely slow starter with only five games released that year. Software didn't pick up until mid-1988. Even Bantam's officially-licensed TurboGrafx Encyclopedia says the PC Engine was released in 1988.

Just because that's how it was ALWAYS done is not a sound business strategy.  It's how companies go out of business.  Successful business strategy is identifying an underserved market and establishing yourself within that market early.  The same principle applies to the "US market still reeling from the video game crash" argument.  The US had never seen anything like what Nintendo, Sega, and NEC were about to bring overseas.  It was a completely different dynamic.

Regardless, your claim that the TG16 should have received a simultaneous, insta-release in 1987 so it could beat the Genesis' usual ten-month delay after the Mega Drive is a double standard and absurd, as are your claims about its deficiencies and obsolescence. The PC Engine was one of the longest-lived consoles of its era. The SuperGrafx was abandoned because the PC Engine wasn't obsolete. The PCE's huge library of stunning shooters, RPG's, and fighting games show no hardware deficiencies as bad as Genesis color mud or SNES slowdown.

Yes it is a double standard to expect a US release closer to the JP release, but it is hardly absurd.  That's what successful businesses do.  They should have identified the same unique product advantage they had in JP (1st and only 16-bit console at the time) and applied in the new (larger) market in the US.  They could have established the same sort of customer base they had in JP which they could have leveraged into software support (which is what Nintendo did).  And I didnt say they were obsolete, I said they were on the way to becoming obsolete (which they definitely were by the time the SNES came out).  The Supergrafx was a desperate attempt to try and regained relevance.  If it had a normal product development cycle and rolled out as part of a larger plan instead of just thrown against the wall to see if it would stick, it could have been pretty successful.

There are plenty of reasons why the TG16 failed, but get your facts straight and stop regurgitating the "doomed from the start" crap you hear on youtube.

This is not regurgitated youtube crap.  I have an MBA.  Its based on education and a fundamental understanding of economics and business principles.  Maybe its too much for you to take in all at once, so read the above a couple of times before you speak out of turn again.

BTW - If anyone thinks I'm starting a hardware war of words ala EvilEvoIX.  I'm not.  I love the TG-16.  I wouldnt have it any other way.  I just wish they were as good at the business side of the industry as they were at making games.

[jelloslug]

TE $299 (Bantam Encyclopedia, EGM, + internets)

Actually the launch price for the Turboexpress was $249.  I know that because I bought one right when it came available.  There were manufacturing issues with the screens though and the price went up to $299 very soon afterwards.

[NecroPhile]

And I didnt say they were obsolete, I said they were on the way to becoming obsolete (which they definitely were by the time the SNES came out).

I stopped reading when I got to here.

[jelloslug]

Here is the 1990 Sears Christmas catalog:



and the 1991 Sears Christmas catalog:

[escarioth]

Sears ! 

[schweaty]

check the hand position on the Turbo Express ad.  have you ever seen anyone try to play it like that?  If so, please share

[jelloslug]

check the hand position on the Turbo Express ad.  have you ever seen anyone try to play it like that?  If so, please share

It's like they were trying to use it as a knob.

[tggodfrey]

As i recall (and i could be wrong) the TE came out about the same time the TG16 did.  90 sears already has the TG16 at a discounted price so i am not sure I trust that 250 TE as the original price.

Edit:  Nevermind, Jellocock is right.  Wikipedia has the original release as 90 for 250.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo_Express

[jelloslug]

As i recall (and i could be wrong) the TE came out about the same time the TG16 did.  90 sears already has the TG16 at a discounted price so i am not sure I trust that 250 TE as the original price.

I bought a TE right when it came out for $250 and a few months later they went up to $300.  The '90 Sears catalog had them for $250 and the '91 had them for $300.

[tggodfrey]

I edited with a correction before you replied.....

[VestCunt]

Just because that's how it was ALWAYS done is not a sound business strategy. 

Didn't say it was. READ SLOWLY: the localization delay didn't matter because NEC's competitors were also delayed coming to the U.S. We got everything one to two years late, making everything equally (not) obsolete. Level playing field.

Yes it is a double standard to expect a US release closer to the JP release, but it is hardly absurd. 

WTF?
You said: "Just think of all the the third party software support if [NEC] had usurped Nintendo in 1987.   By 1989 when the Sega Genesis came along they could have overcame their hardware deficiencies with the CD..."
If you're going to hypothesize a magical scenario in which consoles are released in the U.S. and Japan simultaneously, remember that would have brought the Mega Drive to the U.S. a year earlier too. There's your double standard.

As far as your comments on the Supergrafx, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. The Supergrafx didn't fail, it was abandoned because the PC Engine was doing fine and holding its own against the Super Famicom. We've discussed this at length over the last ten years. Even if the SGX had been supported, it wouldn't have changed anything because the hardware upgrade was negligible. An extra background layer isn't going to win a console war.

so read the above a couple of times before you speak out of turn again.

Public forum, you insufferable shit.

[escarioth]

As far as your comments on the Supergrafx, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. The Supergrafx didn't fail, it was abandoned because the PC Engine was doing fine and holding its own against the Super Famicom. We've discussed this at length over the last ten years. Even if the SGX had been supported, it wouldn't have changed anything because the hardware upgrade was negligible. An extra background layer isn't going to win a console war.

aah ?  i guess ill go read some infos about that supergrafx, i saw it a couple of time online but never really got deep into its story

[HyperionAlpha]

I'm really unsure why there is much debate going on here. Prices of these things at launch is very known and easily confirmbable. The situations were pretty clear, as well. It gives a lot of "oh, well that's the reason" hindsight, to be sure, but still.

I don't know how anyone could imagine remembering in 1987, or 1988 for that matter, that Nintendo was not completely dominating the scene. Yes, the NES was first available in the USA in 1985. October 1985. Who actually had one of these things in 1985? Nobody I knew at the time. It was a very expensive piece of kit and Nintendo was pushing the R.O.B. Hard. And failing, yeah, but they were also pushing it with the Light Gun for Duck Hunt/Hogan's Alley. So the fallback at the time was the Control deck. One NES console and two gamepads and nothing else. My brother got that basic system in fall 1987, and had to shell out another $40 to get Super Mario Bros. along with it. So now imagine it's 1987, the NES is available in a basic set with two gamepads for $199 and no game... it's almost two years since it first came out and that's still the standard retail price, and everyone, everyone is eating it up and asking for seconds. So in your fantasy here comes a TurboGrafx-16 to the USA market the same year. Do you really think that with the 1987 library it would have stood a chance? Hell no! Same price, one gamepad, complete unknown titles, and most importantly the NES was hot at this point in time with no lack of steam propelling it forward into the 90s. It would have been completely insane for NEC or for anyone to look at the market as it was in the USA at that point in time and say, hey we would really like to take Nintendo on. The 1985 launch of the NES was actually a bit of a stall for the lack of software and a general "wait and see" approach from both consumers and retailers, the 1982 crash was just so hard financially that nobody honestly believed new (and better) games had much of a chance.

As for 1989, well, the library was there, at least in the fact that it existed. It just helped them almost not at all when so many titles were not localized (complete Japanese, or just obscure themes alien to Americans), and absolutely detrimental when none of the Nintendo ported titles were available to them to market to America (or the rest of the world). Being ten dollars more expensive than the Sega Genesis MSRP, well that hurt. It hurt even more when Sega was proud enough to put graphics of their game directly on the front of the box; Sega, after at least half a decade of getting stomped by Nintendo in sales, had figured out how to market themselves well as a more upscale, higher-end alternative. The TurboGrafx-16 advertising at every turn had a very MTV appearance to it, and while this was intentional as they wanted to promote it as the next cool thing, it failed with the mindshare gain Sega got by fronting better graphical features so well. Another thing that hurt, not only no second controller, but no means to plug one in without doing what? Spending more money. When you market to kids, who either mow lawns to get their own stuff or beg their parents for birthday/holiday gifts, this kind of piecemealing does not go over well. The TurboBooster was perceived by a lot of folks at the time as an unnecessary oddity despite its benefit, it just seemed like a money grab, and well, $399 for the Turbo CD... who is going to spend $600+ (199+399 & tax) for a complete set? This is now Neo Geo territory and as a home console that was pretty well a not a contender for #1. Some of this is understandable. Being so very Japanese, with a more solitary gameplay experience a single pad port makes sense. But when American kids pile in front of the TV at sleepovers, the one-pad system is at a disadvantage. The investment of localization was something that the original developers of PC Engine titles at the time were not only not interested in, they really weren't well prepared to do it in the first place. Considering how many titles NEC localized all on their own, they really were doing a vast amount of work putting things together in a way that an American could enjoy. Trouble is, they were doing it with Cyber-Core, instead of say Download, although for the obvious reason that it was a lot easier to do.

The amazing thing is the turnaround, at least for those who jumped in despite all that. Game prices for the system tended to drop quickly, much more quickly than either NES or Genesis games. Witness typical pricetags for the standalone console only a year or so later, although the real discount didn't hit til TTi lit the fire-sale to sacrifice for the coming of the TurboDuo. And the Japanese market just continued to crank out games with every arcade port, NES port, or whatever oddity they could dream up, the cheapness of CD-ROM game manufacturing led to low import game prices and the huge selection of arcade games meant little in the way of a language barrier to stop someone from trying things out.

Still, all the while that things were leading to this, the NES market was simply raging. From the beginning before USA launch, to the very end, the roadblock their competition had forced them to drive the backroads.  Some things could have been fixed easily (second controller port, AV output built-in without add-ons), others were not so easily fixed (fewer 2-player titles, difficult localization) and many out of their control (other companies with advertisers steamrolling the business, legal obligations limiting available titles.). The unique set of circumstances that dealt NEC the cards they played had as much to do with their relative lack of sales as it did with the esoteric library of high quality games over time. Honestly, I think that entire melange is the very reason the platform has the legs it does so far past its prime. It's almost like this secret underground console that popped its head out in the winter, saw its shadow and retreated, not seen in the wild again. Put it another way, would you really prefer it if your Turbo were more... Sonical than Bonkified? Think about it.

[NecroPhile]

Your NES prices are incorrect.  The basic set (NES, two controllers, and no game) came out in '87 and was $90.

[HyperionAlpha]

Your NES prices are incorrect.  The basic set (NES, two controllers, and no game) came out in '87 and was $90.

Says who? At any rate, my brother bought his NES Control Deck (an NES, two controllers and no game) in fall 1987--and the price was exactly what that wiki states.

[NecroPhile]

http://www.retroist.com/2008/12/09/1986-sears-catalog-nes-on-one-page/

From the 1986 sears christmas catalog: $90 with two controllers and SMB. 

[tggodfrey]

i bought the sears one and paid 89.99 for it in 88 i think it was.  only difference was that mine came with the players guide.  both were the same price.

[jelloslug]

Your NES prices are incorrect.  The basic set (NES, two controllers, and no game) came out in '87 and was $90.

I remember them being that price also.

[DragonmasterDan]

i bought the sears one and paid 89.99 for it in 88 i think it was.  only difference was that mine came with the players guide.  both were the same price. 

There were a whole slew of different NES configurations as time went on. Terry and I have had more than a few discussions about this.

Which brings to mind some of the TG16 configurations that came out. besides the Keith Courage Pack-in unit there was one that included Bonks Revenge and Keith Courage. There were mail away deals for extra games. And I know I've seen the Holiday Unit with Air Zonk in a santa suit before.

Let alone pack-ins for the Duo (mostly with the HuCard included changing from Dungeon Explorer, to Ninja Spirit to something more random). And various packages of games included via mailing in the reciept and UPC with the Turbo express.

[tggodfrey]

i bought the sears one and paid 89.99 for it in 88 i think it was.  only difference was that mine came with the players guide.  both were the same price. 

There were a whole slew of different NES configurations as time went on. Terry and I have had more than a few discussions about this.

Which brings to mind some of the TG16 configurations that came out. besides the Keith Courage Pack-in unit there was one that included Bonks Revenge and Keith Courage. There were mail away deals for extra games. And I know I've seen the Holiday Unit with Air Zonk in a santa suit before.

Let alone pack-ins for the Duo (mostly with the HuCard included changing from Dungeon Explorer, to Ninja Spirit to something more random). And various packages of games included via mailing in the reciept and UPC with the Turbo express.

We are referring to the basic set Dan.  Deck, 2 controllers and SMB or Book  that sold for 90.00 as NecroPhile and Sears catalog pointed out.

[VestCunt]

Which brings to mind some of the TG16 configurations that came out. besides the Keith Courage Pack-in unit there was one that included Bonks Revenge and Keith Courage. There were mail away deals for extra games. And I know I've seen the Holiday Unit with Air Zonk in a santa suit before.

Let alone pack-ins for the Duo (mostly with the HuCard included changing from Dungeon Explorer, to Ninja Spirit to something more random). And various packages of games included via mailing in the reciept and UPC with the Turbo express.

Extra pack-ins started appearing with the Turbografx  in late '92. I bought a Toys R Us deck in Sept. '92 and got squat, just Keith Courage. My friend bought one a coupe months later with the big holiday sticker on the front and got a free JJ & Jeff in addition to Keith. The "free Bonk" was a thing for a while, but a lot of a cheap, older games were given away.

The four, free TE games offer is shown in the ad that Black Tiger linked on page two, with a choice of Pac-Land, Vigilante, Victory Run, Alien Crush, Fantasy Zone, and Power Golf.

The early ads and promo fliers for the Duo showed Ninja Spirit as the free Hucard. I know that changed after a while, but where did you see Dungeon Explorer as the first Hucard pack-in? All of my materials show Ninja Spirit as the original.

[Medic_wheat]

i bought the sears one and paid 89.99 for it in 88 i think it was.  only difference was that mine came with the players guide.  both were the same price. 

There were a whole slew of different NES configurations as time went on. Terry and I have had more than a few discussions about this.

Which brings to mind some of the TG16 configurations that came out. besides the Keith Courage Pack-in unit there was one that included Bonks Revenge and Keith Courage. There were mail away deals for extra games. And I know I've seen the Holiday Unit with Air Zonk in a santa suit before.

Let alone pack-ins for the Duo (mostly with the HuCard included changing from Dungeon Explorer, to Ninja Spirit to something more random). And various packages of games included via mailing in the reciept and UPC with the Turbo express.

Which leads me to say "why no more pack in games" with newer systems?

I think I said something simlar on Nintendo Age or some other such forum and I got spamed with "Then the price would go sky high" wa wa wa....


I say..you want to sell me on a new system?  Show me a pack in game that is worth the price of admisson......

NES: Mario

SNES: Super Mario World (and like Zelda, Metroid, DK Country and who knows what else)

N64: I forget.....Zelda?

GC: Metroid Prime, Pokemon DX

Wii: .......??

WiiU:  Zelda HD, Mario Land (and also with the Lugi Port)

Genesis: Sonic

etc etc etc.......


I think the only ones not to really do the whole box in game was Sony and Microsoft (although Microsoft has been doing GOW, and Halo bundles off and on.

[HyperionAlpha]

http://www.retroist.com/2008/12/09/1986-sears-catalog-nes-on-one-page/

From the 1986 sears christmas catalog: $90 with two controllers and SMB.

My brother's NES Control Deck certainly didn't come with SMB, I know this because I still have the box and everything. It did come with the game guide book someone else mentioned here, which I thought was the most useless and stupid thing. I didn't pull the price my brother paid out of my rear, I remember quite vividly disbelieving that he was ready to spend that kind of money on the thing, and I've come across multiple sources giving the same MSRP. (Two links there, not one.) Additionally, I remember more than once, calling Sears for a mail order item where the catalogue price was steeply discounted from their store prices. At least one time I was told that they could not honor a price as it was listed in their catalogues, with some nonsense about it not being available despite it being all over their toy shelves, but I would put it to you that this, being a Sears catalogue page, is most likely a sale if indeed legitimate.

At any rate, it still would not have made sense to launch the Turbo in the USA as early as either 1987 or 1988, for all those reasons. For the tech involved and establishing itself with its new market, it would have cost even more than the $199 it launched with if it were to debut that early, and still be hobbled with all the disadvantages it had in its time in the states.

[NecroPhile]

Your sources are giving the msrp at launch, not prices in 1987.  Since you'd prefer two sources instead of just one, here's another one: https://www.flickr.com/photos/wishbook/4590570452/in/set-72157623800858939/?rb=1;  that's JC Penny's Christmas '87 catalog, showing the bundle for $80.  Notice it says it's $20 off their spring catalog price, so in a way I guess that's three sources.  Face it, if your brother really did pay $200 in '87, he got screwed.