Dracula X and YS IV English Manuals

[Brraap]

I was hesitant about posting this here, but for those that like this sort of thing here it is
I have made ENGLISH manuals for Rondo of Blood and Ys IV

[JoshTurboTrollX]

I like that they don't look anything like the originals.  I could see picking these up just for fun! 

Thanks for the share.

[schweaty]

i would be in on the drac x manual and that cd label if you offered them.  i dont see any issues with these since they were never released in english

[jtucci31]

I really like the look of that Ys IV. I'd buy the complete game if you're selling that and depending on the price. I'm also curious as to what kind of CDs you used for these.

[Brraap]

They are Taiyo Yuden silver reflective, images are printed directly onto disc, not labels

[elderbroom]

I would certainly be interested in some of these .. assuming reasonable pricing.  By any chance are you supplying these to Toy Ratt in Milton, Ontario ? as he is selling what looked like the same for $45 each which just seems expensive for what they are.

[Brraap]

I would certainly be interested in some of these .. assuming reasonable pricing.  By any chance are you supplying these to Toy Ratt in Milton, Ontario ? as he is selling what looked like the same for $45 each which just seems expensive for what they are.

Yes he is a friend of mine, His prices are a bit higher because its a retail store. But i sell them for close to the same price if they are being shipped to USA. I only ship with tracked shipping and that isn't very cheap these days

[DeshDildo]

I'd be down for complete packages of both if you would sell them that way.

[Brraap]

I'd be down for complete packages of both if you would sell them that way.

Yes i sell them complete. pm me

[elderbroom]

prices ? where are you located ?

[jtucci31]

Another question: Have you contacted the people who did the translations of the games like Ys IV and Rondo?

Not sure how much you're charging but if you haven't contacted any of the translators and whatnot I'm not sure how they would feel on you making a profit off of it. I'm not speaking on their behalf obviously but that's just my concern with it.

[Soera]

Im interested in a complete Ys IV.

[Sadler]

BurntLasagna was pretty adamantly against it.

[Brraap]

There is next to no profit in this for me, i will sell the manuals with inserts and cases for the same amount as i will sell it complete, I have countless hours into the manuals and inserts alone. I did this so people could have something nice to put on their shelves instead of plain looking cd-r with some black marker scribbles

[Nazi NecroPhile]

If it's costing you anywhere near $45 to make a manual and insert, you're doing it VERY wrong.

[xcrement5x]

If it's costing you anywhere near $45 to make a manual and insert, you're doing it VERY wrong.

Didn't you know, printer ink cost like $2700 a gallon!  :3

[Brraap]

If it's costing you anywhere near $45 to make a manual and insert, you're doing it VERY wrong.

Tracked Shipping is almost 20$ for 1 game or 4 games, thats where the biggest cost is. If i sell more than 1 game to someone the price drops drastically.

[Nazi NecroPhile]

Tracked Shipping is almost 20$ for 1 game or 4 games, thats where the biggest cost is. If i sell more than 1 game to someone the price drops drastically.

If it's costing you anywhere near $25 to make a manual and insert, you're still doing it VERY wrong.

[Gentlegamer]

Using facebook is doing it very wrong, too.

[Sparky]

just an fyi if you want a cheaper option, i still offer the YS IV English Manuals for $4.
I have not bumped the thread in awhile but i still have them.

Full manuals are more of a pain to make i give you that Brraap.

https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=9393.0

[tggodfrey]

the manuals I had copied for a few friends were 8.00 each and that was through a commercial company that did it with a profit margin.  I think your full of shit.

[Arjak]

In before the flame war starts.

In all seriousness, though, I like the concept, but I'm a little skeptical about the execution. I have questions:

Did you get ANY sort of permission from the creators of the translations?

Why are you doing this through a Facebook page, and not a website?

Why do your manuals and inserts cost so much? Is that the price for a complete game, or just the paper goods? If it's just for the paper goods, I really doubt that you're doing this non-profit.

[esteban]

STOP FLATTERING THIS GUY.

ALSO, STOP PRETENDING THIS IS JUST ABOUT THE PRINTED MANUALS/INSERTS.

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT IT SOUNDS LIKE.

PROFITEERING.

Look, I like the idea of translated manuals. Yes, it takes time to translate (but who did the translation, exactly?) and it takes time to recreate a manual in English. It takes to design things that are aesthetically pleasing.

However, that doesn't excuse PLAIN-AS-BALLS profiteering.

Nobody should profit from the work of Bonknuts/tomeithous/BurntLasagna/etc.

P.S. Can someone screenshot Facebook. I don't do that sh!te so I haven't seen the page in question.

[grache]

Nobody should profit from the work of Bonknuts/tomeithous/BurntLasagna/etc.

He should probably contact them first, unless they've explicitly stated that anyone can use it for any end.

Assuming those translations are under a GPL-like license,  the way I see it, there's no problem with him selling these manuals/inserts for any price, even $500 a piece. So long as he provides the pdfs (or whatever the format they're stored in) online.

That way people can print their own, and even print them and sell them to others. If he sold them for too much, someone would come in with a fairer price et voila.

If he wants to profiteer and not provide the pdfs, then he needs to use all of his own original work, that way he can license it however he wants.

Of course this depends on the license that the translators have on their work, they might say anyone can do anything with it (even what he's doing) or any projects using their translations must also be provided for free.

Nevermind the original game's licenses, because both the translation and manuals are almost certainly violating them.

P.S.

Regarding the Megaman PCE Memories release, does anyone know what license, if any, the Megaman code was released under?

[Brraap]

Ok im going to explain some things, for you guys that think im making a huge
profit on this stuff, The manuals are printed in a print shop, not at home,
and I only get 5 at time, if I was getting 100+ at a time i could get them a little
bit cheaper, but thats not going to happen. All the inserts are printed by me on glossy
photo style paper, It probably is overkill, but it looks really nice, and when i started
doing this it was for myself, and thats what I wanted. All the text for the manuals was
inserted by me. I used all original manual scans, erased all the text, rebuilt the pages
and then inserted the text. And then added or removed some pages as i went. As for
contacting the guys that had worked on the game translations, I tried to contact Nightwovle
but did not get a response. I thought about sending these out and let the buyer burn the
game, but some people dont have the proper knowledge, or the proper hardware to do
it themselves, and really in the end, it wouldnt be any cheaper for me or the buyer. And
the buyer could end up with a coaster. I test every game before i send it out. I have also
traded away more than i have sold, with members here on this site. A few months ago
I had a game on ebay that a member ended up buying, and when i realized it was a
member here i offered him a game of his choice, no charge. And he gladly chose one.
I also offered up a really rare game for trade a few weeks back. I could have thrown it
up on ebay and profited from it, but instead i decided to offer it for trade to a member.
And that member also chose a free game.
So im sorry if some of you are not happy about me selling a few games here and there
on my spare time. More people are happy about than upset with it.
Any members here that have gotten a game from me, feel free to post on this topic

[NightWolve]

BurntLasagna was pretty adamantly against it.

I'm sure Falcom and Konami are fine with it.   Nightwolve is also probably stoked to see the translated Ys selling for so cheap. He didnt put anywhere near as much time into it as was put into the manual and whatnots.

Heh-heh. Well, I was gonna tell him since he never contacted anyone in the translation projects beforehand to sell those CD-Rs close to cost, etc. Sounds like he says he's doing that unlike Tobias and his Megaman CDs, etc. Then again, here he's only offering the manuals.

You're Jodi, braap ? Yeah, I didn't get around to replying to you, I was gonna accept your offer for some discs and just tell ya to sell at cost cause if it's at profit the ethical way to do it is I gotta then contact project members and work out business with them and you, either flat fee, royalty split, or to donate and yield any take, etc... That's a hassle I don't need at this time.

I'd love to press a real CD-ROM of Ys IV some day, but I realize I can't stop someone from beating me to it and that person like Tobias assuming cause it's a free translation patch, it's free for him/her to slap on a disc and not bother to contact anyone that made it... It's understadable about not reaching someone inside the publisher for a license or paying $5k+ if you do, but fan translation teams are easily reached... I'd guess Tobias was more scared of Bonknuts asking for a royalty split of profits then yelling at him for doing it when it came to that Megaman CD... So what did the guy do instead ? Just pretended not to know where the Megaman hack/port came from... That's how it goes, 99% looking out for number one when you get down to it...

[Sparky]

Ok im going to explain some things, for you guys that think im making a huge
profit on this stuff, The manuals are printed in a print shop, not at home,
and I only get 5 at time, if I was getting 100+ at a time i could get them a little
bit cheaper, but thats not going to happen. All the inserts are printed by me on glossy
photo style paper, It probably is overkill, but it looks really nice, and when i started
doing this it was for myself, and thats what I wanted. All the text for the manuals was
inserted by me. I used all original manual scans, erased all the text, rebuilt the pages
and then inserted the text. And then added or removed some pages as i went. As for
contacting the guys that had worked on the game translations, I tried to contact Nightwovle
but did not get a response. I thought about sending these out and let the buyer burn the
game, but some people dont have the proper knowledge, or the proper hardware to do
it themselves, and really in the end, it wouldnt be any cheaper for me or the buyer. And
the buyer could end up with a coaster. I test every game before i send it out.

There I edited out the tail end, this is all you needed to say man.

I support doing these things to help the community but the right price point is key. I appreciate you explaining yourself as what you are doing is more costly, a lot more, there are other inexpensive print options out there that look just as good but if your happy with the results and others are as well then so be it.

[Brraap]

BurntLasagna was pretty adamantly against it.

I'm sure Falcom and Konami are fine with it.   Nightwolve is also probably stoked to see the translated Ys selling for so cheap. He didnt put anywhere near as much time into it as was put into the manual and whatnots.

Heh-heh. Well, I was gonna tell him since he never contacted anyone in the translation projects beforehand to sell those etcRs close to cost, etc. Sounds like he says he's doing that unlike Tobias and his Megaman CDs, etc. Then again, here he's only offering the manuals.

You're Jodi, braap ? Yeah, I didn't get around to replying to you, I was gonna accept your offer for some discs and just tell ya to sell at cost cause if it's at profit the ethical way to do it is I gotta then contact project members and work out business with them and you, either flat fee or royalty split, etc...

The only profit I make is MAYBE my gas money to drive to the nearest post office when i need to ship a game. Another cost i never factor into things. Living in the boonies, and a 25-30 min drive to the post office

[Sparky]

Don't over sell it man, Christ.. Look at my prices? You want to get into details and time I spend and not charge for. Sigh. I have a couple glasses of wine in me, happy thanksgiving I should just go to bed.

[esteban]

Ok im going to explain some things, for you guys that think im making a huge
profit on this stuff, The manuals are printed in a print shop, not at home,
and I only get 5 at time, if I was getting 100+ at a time i could get them a little
bit cheaper, but thats not going to happen. All the inserts are printed by me on glossy
photo style paper, It probably is overkill, but it looks really nice, and when i started
doing this it was for myself, and thats what I wanted. All the text for the manuals was
inserted by me. I used all original manual scans, erased all the text, rebuilt the pages
and then inserted the text. And then added or removed some pages as i went. As for
contacting the guys that had worked on the game translations, I tried to contact Nightwovle
but did not get a response. I thought about sending these out and let the buyer burn the
game, but some people dont have the proper knowledge, or the proper hardware to do
it themselves, and really in the end, it wouldnt be any cheaper for me or the buyer. And
the buyer could end up with a coaster. I test every game before i send it out.

There I edited out the tail end, this is all you needed to say man.

I support doing these things to help the community but the right price point is key. I appreciate you explaining yourself as what you are doing is more costly, a lot more, there are other inexpensive print options out there that look just as good but if your happy with the results and others are as well then so be it.

I agree with Sparky.

I will be more precise in my misgivings, though. Below, I explain my fears/my suspicions....

Please believe me when I say I that I hope you stay with us and possibly even collaborate on future non-profit projects (see very bottom). Our community needs talented people who want to create stuff and share it. When $$$ is involved...well, it becomes a touchy subject...as this thread is a testament to. 



IN RESPONSE TO YOUR POST:

I hear you and I want to believe you. Assuming you are sincere, let me start by saying that I fear your good intentions have still led you down the wrong path, IMHO.

Why?

Including the CD-ROM as part of the package— That's a major sticking point. There is no way I can excuse this.

Remove the CD-ROM and then I am much more comfortable with the idea.

I would still criticize you for the prices, of course, but people would LITERALLY only be paying for the specific services YOU provided (YOUR ACTUAL LABOR: scanning/modifying the items, printing them, assembling them, packing, shipping). If folks felt your labor was worth $___, so be it.

See?

My fear, comrade, is that you anticipated that only a handful of people would find the printed items ALONE (the fruit of your labor) to be worth what you are asking, so....you include the CD-ROM (the fruit of others' labor) to ensure you can charge a premium price for the overall package.

My fear, you see, is that the CD-ROM itself is what many folks want (it helps justify the overall price you are charging).

As NecroPhile stated earlier, if you need $45+ dollars to simply cover all your expenses...just don't do it as a  "service"....




DISCLAIMER: I am not saying you are a evil. I don't know your true intentions. I don't know if you see DOLLAH SIGNS when you rest your head on your scanner....

WHAT I AM SAYING IS that however sincere your intentions, your execution was flawed and led to very predictable condemnations (from a few of us).

To put it another way: dump the CD-ROM from your offerings.

Sorry to ruin your day.....BUT.....

Also, maybe you (we) should work on some additional PCE manual translations. But we won't charge for it. And we won't choose HIGHLY PROFITABLE titles like Dracula X. Instead, we could choose games that are lots of fun (Son Son II) especially with a manual that provides valuable info...our mission would be to broaden the appeal/accessibility of these games by offering an English manual.

I'm serious.

[slinkyturd]

I have to disagree with esteban. I'm move comfortable paying $45 for a complete set up. $45 for just a tray and paper is quite a bit above outside my threshold to purchase.

That said. I thought it was a really cool idea and if I had the money I'd be a buyer. Kudos for actually doing it.

[esteban]

I have to disagree with esteban. I'm more comfortable paying $45 for a complete set up. $45 for just a tray and paper is quite a bit above outside my threshold to purchase.

Actually, you proved my point. Thank you.

[slinkyturd]

I have to disagree with esteban. I'm more comfortable paying $45 for a complete set up. $45 for just a tray and paper is quite a bit above outside my threshold to purchase.

Actually, you proved my point. Thank you.

Maybe to a point. I'd happily be a buyer for a complete package though. I have no problem with the inclusion of the disc. We may both be saying $45 for paper and a tray is too much. My fix is include the disc; yours is to not make the set up because it is too costly.

[Brraap]

For the people that havent seen the disc's. These are not just stick on labels.

[esteban]

I have to disagree with esteban. I'm more comfortable paying $45 for a complete set up. $45 for just a tray and paper is quite a bit above outside my threshold to purchase.

Actually, you proved my point. Thank you.

Maybe to a point. I'd happily be a buyer for a complete package though. I have no problem with the inclusion of the disc. We may both be saying $45 for paper and a tray is too much. My fix is include the disc; yours is to not make the set up because it is too costly.

Well, there is *more* to my argument.

For example, I discuss the ETHICS of bundling the CD-R (*not* the fruit of his labor) with the manual/inserts (the "fruit" of his labor).

I would like to hear your views on that, slinky.

Before you answer, please (1) re-read my post and (2) familiarize yourself with Tobias, the profiteering scoundrel who has (and continues) to profit from Bonknut's/tomeithous's PCE MegaMan project. (3) look at how Sparky handles things. I don't have a problem with Sparky. Why? He established a relationship within the community and has consistently shown his willingness to NOT GOUGE  (he could easily make $$$$ profit if he desired to do so).

slinky, you know I don't have a personal problem with you—you are simply the only person brave enough to advocate for Brrrraaaaap.




Brraaaaap, my friend, the art on the CD-R looks nice (the photo you posted), but the ethics of bundling  the CD-R with your other offerings...well, that is where we have different perspectives.

[Brraap]

Brraaaaap, my friend, the art on the CD-R looks nice (the photo you posted), but the ethics of bundling the CD-R with your other offerings...well, that is where we have different perspectives.

I understand your perspective on it, but my perspective is, give people what they want, if they want
just the manual and inserts and cd tray, cool. If they want the disc along with it, cool. If they want the disc blank (with no data) and want to burn it themselves, cool. I cant make everyone happy, but I dont see any harm in giving them a nice disc to go along with the rest of it.

looks like i need a lesson on quotes......

[esteban]

TESTEBAN: The Ethical Testical

Exactly.

[Gentlegamer]

For the people that havent seen the disc's. These are not just stick on labels.

R@R3! L@@K! UNRELEASED ENGLISH PROTOTYPE OF DRACULA X!!

This is the version that Konami was going to release in North America if the Turbo Duo had sold better. It was eventually released as part of the PSP Dracula X Chronicles. Now you can own this rare prototype, never released at retail! Only three known to exist! BIN $5,000.00

[NightWolve]

TESTEBAN: The Ethical Testical

Heh...

Tangent: Just posted this on my new Windows 8.1 10" tablet (Black Friday score) and I can't believe how fast it is, fast enough to handle a damn browser at the very least. Yay, I'm happy with it! My 7" cheap Android tablet was driving me insane with its bugs, slowdowns, etc. None of the damn browsers ever worked properly on it. None, bugs everywhere and turtle operating speeds so much so I wanted to break the thing in half! Never have I been so happy to get rid of a computing device, sorry to say! /end tangent

Well, esteban means well and the history of bootleggers continues to be shady, so it's understandable... I had a bit of a negative reaction admittedly when I randomly ran into brraap on Facebook, but I didn't really feel like starting a fight over it. If Ys IV is sold at cost then I guess that's that.

[slinkyturd]

I have to disagree with esteban. I'm more comfortable paying $45 for a complete set up. $45 for just a tray and paper is quite a bit above outside my threshold to purchase.

Actually, you proved my point. Thank you.

Maybe to a point. I'd happily be a buyer for a complete package though. I have no problem with the inclusion of the disc. We may both be saying $45 for paper and a tray is too much. My fix is include the disc; yours is to not make the set up because it is too costly.

Well, there is *more* to my argument.

For example, I discuss the ETHICS of bundling the CD-R (*not* the fruit of his labor) with the manual/inserts (the "fruit" of his labor).

I would like to hear your views on that, slinky.

Before you answer, please (1) re-read my post and (2) familiarize yourself with Tobias, the profiteering scoundrel who has (and continues) to profit from Bonknut's/tomeithous's PCE MegaMan project. (3) look at how Sparky handles things. I don't have a problem with Sparky. Why? He established a relationship within the community and has consistently shown his willingness to NOT GOUGE  (he could easily make $$$$ profit if he desired to do so).

slinky, you know I don't have a personal problem with you—you are simply the only person brave enough to advocate for Brrrraaaaap.




Brraaaaap, my friend, the art on the CD-R looks nice (the photo you posted), but the ethics of bundling  the CD-R with your other offerings...well, that is where we have different perspectives.

I understand your point that it is profiting from the labor of others, but with the state of these products I am not sympathetic, and here's why. If they, the developers of Dracula X, were still actually profiting from this game, I'd be inclined to agree. The market is strictly second hand at this point meaning that the production of a high quality facsimile doesn't hinder their earning potential. It's one thing take money out of the pockets of the developer, It's completely another to take money out of the pockets of the gougers on ebay. And that's how I see this. You have 2 options to play this game on a Duo, pay out the nose to a person on ebay or pay moderately for a high quality english facsimile. The developer doesn't enter the conversation at this point unless they plan on re-releasing this game for this system. i.e. no harm, no foul.

[jtucci31]

Well, esteban means well and the history of bootleggers continues to be shady, so it's understandable... I had a bit of a negative reaction admittedly when I randomly ran into brraap on Facebook, but I didn't really feel like starting a fight over it. If Ys IV is sold at cost then I guess that's that.

If it's at cost I'm ok with it. And of course if the translators are ok with it. Nice to hear from you (don't know about burnt lasagna or others). Not that i know every person involved with the translation process, but of the few i know you're the only one I've heard speak about it (unless I'm wrong).

The thing i still don't understand is why shipping costs so much. Are you located in Canada or something? It seems like the actual cost of say the entire Ys IV cd/manual/inserts/etc. would be around $25-30 which doesn't seem too bad. But $45 just seems high and if i recall correctly, you said shipping costs like $15 with tracking. Am i just not that knowledgeable about shipping costs or is that high...? 

[esteban]

I have to disagree with esteban. I'm more comfortable paying $45 for a complete set up. $45 for just a tray and paper is quite a bit above outside my threshold to purchase.

Actually, you proved my point. Thank you.

Maybe to a point. I'd happily be a buyer for a complete package though. I have no problem with the inclusion of the disc. We may both be saying $45 for paper and a tray is too much. My fix is include the disc; yours is to not make the set up because it is too costly.

Well, there is *more* to my argument.

For example, I discuss the ETHICS of bundling the CD-R (*not* the fruit of his labor) with the manual/inserts (the "fruit" of his labor).

I would like to hear your views on that, slinky.

Before you answer, please (1) re-read my post and (2) familiarize yourself with Tobias, the profiteering scoundrel who has (and continues) to profit from Bonknut's/tomeithous's PCE MegaMan project. (3) look at how Sparky handles things. I don't have a problem with Sparky. Why? He established a relationship within the community and has consistently shown his willingness to NOT GOUGE  (he could easily make $$$$ profit if he desired to do so).

slinky, you know I don't have a personal problem with you—you are simply the only person brave enough to advocate for Brrrraaaaap.




Brraaaaap, my friend, the art on the CD-R looks nice (the photo you posted), but the ethics of bundling  the CD-R with your other offerings...well, that is where we have different perspectives.

I understand your point that it is profiting from the labor of others, but with the state of these products I am not sympathetic, and here's why. If they, the developers of Dracula X, were still actually profiting from this game, I'd be inclined to agree. The market is strictly second hand at this point meaning that the production of a high quality facsimile doesn't hinder their earning potential. It's one thing take money out of the pockets of the developer, It's completely another to take money out of the pockets of the gougers on ebay. And that's how I see this. You have 2 options to play this game on a Duo, pay out the nose to a person on ebay or pay moderately for a high quality english facsimile. The developer doesn't enter the conversation at this point unless they plan on re-releasing this game for this system. i.e. no harm, no foul.

Re-read my post.

If I ever say "developer" it is ALWAYS in reference to BurntLasagna or Bonknuts or NightWolve.

I was very clear to refer to the "fruit of fellow fans/translators/coders" .... Tobias, for example, was referenced specifically because he exploited the PCE MegaMan project.

DAMN, SON.


Things I value:
(1) Reading comprehension and (2) a *little* knowledge about PCE MegaMan

I still love you, slinky, but DAMN.

YOU REALLY THOUGHT I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT KONAMI? If I was concerned about Konami's IP, then I couldn't condone profiting from  their artwork and IP.

I care about NightWolve, Bonknuts, BurntLasagna, etc.

I also think that Brrrrraaaaaappppp should drop the CD-R so he can charge folks solely for the fruit of his own labor (damn, I love that expression).

[slinkyturd]

I have to disagree with esteban. I'm more comfortable paying $45 for a complete set up. $45 for just a tray and paper is quite a bit above outside my threshold to purchase.

Actually, you proved my point. Thank you.

Maybe to a point. I'd happily be a buyer for a complete package though. I have no problem with the inclusion of the disc. We may both be saying $45 for paper and a tray is too much. My fix is include the disc; yours is to not make the set up because it is too costly.

Well, there is *more* to my argument.

For example, I discuss the ETHICS of bundling the CD-R (*not* the fruit of his labor) with the manual/inserts (the "fruit" of his labor).

I would like to hear your views on that, slinky.

Before you answer, please (1) re-read my post and (2) familiarize yourself with Tobias, the profiteering scoundrel who has (and continues) to profit from Bonknut's/tomeithous's PCE MegaMan project. (3) look at how Sparky handles things. I don't have a problem with Sparky. Why? He established a relationship within the community and has consistently shown his willingness to NOT GOUGE  (he could easily make $$$$ profit if he desired to do so).

slinky, you know I don't have a personal problem with you—you are simply the only person brave enough to advocate for Brrrraaaaap.




Brraaaaap, my friend, the art on the CD-R looks nice (the photo you posted), but the ethics of bundling  the CD-R with your other offerings...well, that is where we have different perspectives.

I understand your point that it is profiting from the labor of others, but with the state of these products I am not sympathetic, and here's why. If they, the developers of Dracula X, were still actually profiting from this game, I'd be inclined to agree. The market is strictly second hand at this point meaning that the production of a high quality facsimile doesn't hinder their earning potential. It's one thing take money out of the pockets of the developer, It's completely another to take money out of the pockets of the gougers on ebay. And that's how I see this. You have 2 options to play this game on a Duo, pay out the nose to a person on ebay or pay moderately for a high quality english facsimile. The developer doesn't enter the conversation at this point unless they plan on re-releasing this game for this system. i.e. no harm, no foul.

Re-read my post.

If I ever say "developer" it is ALWAYS in reference to BurntLasagna or Bonknuts or NightWolve.

I was very clear to refer to the "fruit of fellow fans/translators/coders" .... Tobias, for example, was referenced specifically because he exploited the PCE MegaMan project.

DAMN, SON.


Things I value:
(1) Reading comprehension and (2) a *little* knowledge about PCE MegaMan

I still love you, slinky, but DAMN.

YOU REALLY THOUGHT I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT KONAMI? If I was concerned about Konami's IP, then I couldn't condone profiting from  their artwork and IP.

I care about NightWolve, Bonknuts, BurntLasagna, etc.

I also think that Brrrrraaaaaappppp should drop the CD-R so he can charge folks solely for the fruit of his own labor (damn, I love that expression).

If I can be frank, I'm not sure what you are talking about. I've not been paying attention to this community but for a couple of short months. Please assume that the intricate happenings of it are not general knowledge just because I have a TG-16. I don't know the happenstance of Megaman and Tobias. Therefore I have had no knowledge of how it relates to our current situation. The only thing I can assume is that the fruits of someone else's labor refers to an English translation of the game by them that is now being created and sold by another. Is that correct? I offer a resolution. If it is their work, I submit that they should make an attempt to protect it. Copyright? Or is it that that is not possible because it is still the legal property of Konomi? If that is the case then I say legally speaking the claim to their work is Konomi's and not their own anyway. I'd also offer that if they wanted to retain the ability to claim "rights" to their work then maybe make it so some guy can't just download and burn it. Copy protection exists now. We aren't NEC making CD games in 1990. Claiming rights and protecting rights goes hand in hand. There is also the assumption that he is cleaning up on profits from this. I don't have any reason to doubt him when he says that cost is cost, and he's not making much if anything. Perhaps he'll indulge us with a photo of a receipt for his materials and if cost is indeed his claimed cost, then I'd say regardless which argument one chooses between ours, it doesn't matter because he'll have proved that he's not making profit from other's labor. Is that fair?

[esteban]

I have to disagree with esteban. I'm more comfortable paying $45 for a complete set up. $45 for just a tray and paper is quite a bit above outside my threshold to purchase.

Actually, you proved my point. Thank you.

Maybe to a point. I'd happily be a buyer for a complete package though. I have no problem with the inclusion of the disc. We may both be saying $45 for paper and a tray is too much. My fix is include the disc; yours is to not make the set up because it is too costly.

Well, there is *more* to my argument.

For example, I discuss the ETHICS of bundling the CD-R (*not* the fruit of his labor) with the manual/inserts (the "fruit" of his labor).

I would like to hear your views on that, slinky.

Before you answer, please (1) re-read my post and (2) familiarize yourself with Tobias, the profiteering scoundrel who has (and continues) to profit from Bonknut's/tomeithous's PCE MegaMan project. (3) look at how Sparky handles things. I don't have a problem with Sparky. Why? He established a relationship within the community and has consistently shown his willingness to NOT GOUGE  (he could easily make $$$$ profit if he desired to do so).

slinky, you know I don't have a personal problem with you—you are simply the only person brave enough to advocate for Brrrraaaaap.




Brraaaaap, my friend, the art on the CD-R looks nice (the photo you posted), but the ethics of bundling  the CD-R with your other offerings...well, that is where we have different perspectives.

I understand your point that it is profiting from the labor of others, but with the state of these products I am not sympathetic, and here's why. If they, the developers of Dracula X, were still actually profiting from this game, I'd be inclined to agree. The market is strictly second hand at this point meaning that the production of a high quality facsimile doesn't hinder their earning potential. It's one thing take money out of the pockets of the developer, It's completely another to take money out of the pockets of the gougers on ebay. And that's how I see this. You have 2 options to play this game on a Duo, pay out the nose to a person on ebay or pay moderately for a high quality english facsimile. The developer doesn't enter the conversation at this point unless they plan on re-releasing this game for this system. i.e. no harm, no foul.

Re-read my post.

If I ever say "developer" it is ALWAYS in reference to BurntLasagna or Bonknuts or NightWolve.

I was very clear to refer to the "fruit of fellow fans/translators/coders" .... Tobias, for example, was referenced specifically because he exploited the PCE MegaMan project.

DAMN, SON.


Things I value:
(1) Reading comprehension and (2) a *little* knowledge about PCE MegaMan

I still love you, slinky, but DAMN.

YOU REALLY THOUGHT I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT KONAMI? If I was concerned about Konami's IP, then I couldn't condone profiting from  their artwork and IP.

I care about NightWolve, Bonknuts, BurntLasagna, etc.

I also think that Brrrrraaaaaappppp should drop the CD-R so he can charge folks solely for the fruit of his own labor (damn, I love that expression).

If I can be frank, I'm not sure what you are talking about. I've not been paying attention to this community but for a couple of short months. Please assume that the intricate happenings of it are not general knowledge just because I have a TG-16. I don't know the happenstance of Megaman and Tobias. Therefore I have had no knowledge of how it relates to our current situation. The only thing I can assume is that the fruits of someone else's labor refers to an English translation of the game by them that is now being created and sold by another. Is that correct? I offer a resolution. If it is their work, I submit that they should make an attempt to protect it. Copyright? Or is it that that is not possible because it is still the legal property of Konomi? If that is the case then I say legally speaking the claim to their work is Konomi's and not their own anyway. I'd also offer that if they wanted to retain the ability to claim "rights" to their work then maybe make it so some guy can't just download and burn it. Copy protection exists now. We aren't NEC making CD games in 1990. Claiming rights and protecting rights goes hand in hand. There is also the assumption that he is cleaning up on profits from this. I don't have any reason to doubt him when he says that cost is cost, and he's not making much if anything. Perhaps he'll indulge us with a photo of a receipt for his materials and if cost is indeed his claimed cost, then I'd say regardless which argument one chooses between ours, it doesn't matter because he'll have proved that he's not making profit from other's labor. Is that fair?

As I said, it's about ethics.

I didn't mention copyright or IP or legal ownership of anything.

Ethics:

(1) I proposed that it is unethical to overcharge (gouge) for products/services.

(2) I proposed that it is unethical to profit from a fan-created product/service.

That's it.

Legally, folks are allowed to do lots of things.

That's why I made it an issue of ethics.

Because a douche move is a douche move, regardless of legality.

[slinkyturd]

I think then we need to wait for proof of material cost before I can respond further as I can't build a counter-argument to the ethics of it.

[esteban]

I think then we need to wait for proof of material cost before I can respond further as I can't build a counter-argument to the ethics of it.

Like I said, I love you, slinky, for being the only one brave enough to keep the dialogue going.

But, yeah, I've wasted enough of our time.

Here is the thread about PCE MegaMan (you might not have known this exists...)

(1) Bonknuts PCE MegaMan
https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=11230.0

(2) Tobias took fan port, burned CD-R's and sold them for profit:
http://sapphire.anime4ever.de/

Tobias is still very active (you may have seen the recent threads about the PCE / DUO bootleg boxsets)

[slinkyturd]

Any more of those megaman copies circulating around? That looks like something I'd be interested in purchasing at some point.

[NightWolve]

Click este's 2nd link: sold out.

[jtucci31]

I think then we need to wait for proof of material cost before I can respond further as I can't build a counter-argument to the ethics of it.

Like I said, I love you, slinky, for being the only one brave enough to keep the dialogue going.

But, yeah, I've wasted enough of our time.

Here is the thread about PCE MegaMan (you might not have known this exists...)

(1) Bonknuts PCE MegaMan
https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=11230.msg212640#msg212640

(2) Tobias took fan port, burned CD-R's and sold them for profit:
http://sapphire.anime4ever.de/

Tobias is still very active (you may have seen the recent threads about the PCE / DUO bootleg boxsets)

Now I'm not sure how much Tobias sold the PCE MegaMan's for, but Brrraaapp is now selling his own version as well....I uhhh.....

The whole price thing is still an issue with me though, I agree. I'm very confused why one game costs $45 and with the lack of information I have about this, it steers me away.

But esteban, awhile ago in this thread you said that if he were to sell everything but the burned CD, that would be ok. Why exactly? I'm just curious.

Hypothetically, if $45 really is at cost (which i doubt) AND (hypothetically again) he got the consent from the translators for say, Ys IV, would that be ok? Does the issue lie with the fact that it's someone's translation-work being "manufactured", hence taking away their efforts to provide a free English patch? Or does the issue arise when you throw in the aspect of this price debacle (charging too much) which has not been sorted out?

Hope I'm not beating a dead horse, I just want to understand this. I guess if anything I'll get sparky's Ys IV manual when i get the MC box. 

[slinkyturd]

Oh, I thought the second link was to Tobias' copies for sale. I didn't want to buy from him.