185 NOS PCE games trade proposal - should I go for it ?

[pongstory]

Hello,

I'm new to this forum and therefore do not know if this post is at the right place. If not, I hope the admins can move it to the right place.

I run the Pong-Story site about early videogames but had some trouble with somebody to who I sold an unreleased PCE prototype. We agreed the price and the buyer sent monthly payments until he stopped paying (he owes me 25% of the agreed price which I will keep confidential).

In order to finish the deal, he's proposing 185 NOS PCE games which I'm free to sell even if I get more than what he owes me. As I'm not familiar with PCE games I wanted your opinions. But before all, and in order to respect the forum rules, should I post the list here ? If so, should I put the prices that he estimates, or should I rather ask your opinion on how much the lot is worth to compare with what he owes me, and whether it's a reasonable deal or if this would take too much time ?

Thanks for your help !

[wildfruit]

Did you know This person personally? I cant think of a situation where you would agree payments if you didn't.
Also it will be hard to judge if these games are worth it without knowing what you are owed. This other person should sell them and then pay you.

[esteban]

Hello,

I'm new to this forum and therefore do not know if this post is at the right place. If not, I hope the admins can move it to the right place.

I run the Pong-Story site about early videogames but had some trouble with somebody to who I sold an unreleased PCE prototype. We agreed the price and the buyer sent monthly payments until he stopped paying (he owes me 25% of the agreed price which I will keep confidential).

In order to finish the deal, he's proposing 185 NOS PCE games which I'm free to sell even if I get more than what he owes me. As I'm not familiar with PCE games I wanted your opinions. But before all, and in order to respect the forum rules, should I post the list here ? If so, should I put the prices that he estimates, or should I rather ask your opinion on how much the lot is worth to compare with what he owes me, and whether it's a reasonable deal or if this would take too much time ?

Thanks for your help !

Damn. You have to tell us about the PCE prototype.

Now.

Thank you.

[pongstory]

To make it short: we agreed a price. The guy paid 75% of it through several months and then stopped.
The prototype is Dino Fore.
The other option that I considered was to make a limited release, but I don't know how and I would need to refund him, which is not possible.
Making a Hu-Card version would be too expensive as far as I know.
Making a CD would hardly be feasible as I won't share the ROM (I have an MSc in software design and have good notions of assembly coding), and as the ROM is 4 megabit (4 x 128 kilobytes) which is larger than a section on a CD where it can be put (as far as I know).

Anyhow, the questions are:
- Can I post the list of games here ?
- If so, should I include the prices that the guy considered to be fair, or should I simply ask for someone to give me a rough idea of what this stuff is worth ?

Thanks !

[Psycho Punch]

Dino force? Posting before the flame war.

[elmer]

Please help me understand this pongstory ...

You got hold of a prototype PCE game cartridge for an unreleased game "Dino For(c)e".

You agreed to sell that cartridge to a "collector" for some embarrassingly large amount of money as a unique item.

The "collector" has failed to pay what he agreed to, but is trying to make up the difference in "goods" instead of "money".

You'd like a 2nd-opinion on the value of what he's offered to see if it's worth enough to meet your expectations.

You've already spent the money that he's sent you so far, and so can't just cancel the sale and refund the money.

But ... you've considered manufacturing the game so that you can get your desired profit level, although it sounds like it might be a bit difficult/expensive to you.


FYI 1: There's a guy here currently trying to selling off a large collection of factory-sealed games.

https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=19085.0

259 different titles (all new factory sealed) for 3800 US + ship.

That's $14 per game bulk-price.


FYI 2: There's another manufacturer of HuCards (apart from Aetherbutt) ...

http://www.db-elec.com/home/products/debee-card


FYI 3: As of last week's Turbo Everdrive 2 release, you should be able to manufacture a CD and have it run boot a 512KB ROM game on the PCE. It would just require a small loader program.

Or just manufacture a "collectable" CD with a 512KB ROM image that can be loaded onto any Turbo Everdrive.


But ... apart from Nulltard's total hard-on at the idea of buying a game that he hasn't seen before ... is manufacturing a HuCard with someone else's game on it, for profit, any different from what Tobias is doing?

To quote Nulltard from a different thread ...

How shitty!  What the hell, 2015 is shaping up to be the year of the talentless work-stealing bootlegging shitbags.  Seems every other post lately has been about some shitbag or other burning and printing some shit, and a flock of fartknockers buying it up.  I like some of the fartknockers (despite their knocking of farts), but have 0 use for the shitbags.

[HailingTheThings]

/QoEzqqk.gif

[elmer]

If someone who is out the cash for it wishes to recoup some monies and make the world 1 PCE game brighter, I approve of that more than someone with no significant investment of time or money cashing in.

Haha ... I'm not actually calling you out, I totally understand your excitement at the idea of everyone being able to get hold of an unreleased PCE game.

I'm also enough of a capitalist to support pongstory's desire to sell the prototype for what he feel's that it is worth (which is at least what someone actually agreed to pay for it).

He's come here totally honestly, been very open about the situation, and he's asked a reasonable question, to which we've both responded.

Now he's hopefully got the beginnings of an idea of the value that he's been offered by the original "buyer", and of some the alternatives if he wants to manufacture the game.

He's also still free to post a list of the games and get a more detailed idea of the value that the "buyer" is offering if pongstory wants to take the time to sell the games individually.

But beyond that information ... there are a lot of unknowns and a huge grey area, and everyone gets to decide where they stand.

FYI ... I own the copyrights on a couple of "dead" video games ... so perhaps my position on the "for profit" manufacture of old games is somewhat different to yours.

[PunkCryborg]

Wow last thing I remember hearing about this is when the Japanese seller had it up a couple years ago then I thought they decided not to sell. Well I just looked it up and there's a vid up on YT from 2 years ago
https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=19150.0

[esteban]

I am confused, and it smells funny:

HuCARD and CD-ROM are distinct formats.

It is not a trivial task to convert from one format to the other.

And yet...folks are talking as if the Dino Force prototype, if it exists, can effortlessly manifest itself as a HuCARD or CD-ROM.

[elmer]

Well I just looked it up and there's a vid up on YT from 2 years ago

Thanks for the pointing out that it's up there.

I just looked it up on YouTube ... what can I say ... 

I wrote more ... but really, why bother?   

[elmer]

I am confused, and it smells funny:

HuCARD and CD-ROM are distinct formats.

It is not a trivial task to convert from one format to the other.

And yet...folks are talking as if the Dino Force prototype, if it exists, can effortlessly manifest itself as a HuCARD or CD-ROM.

OK, just one more post on this, then.

pongstory already knows that he can't just burn a CD and have it work.

But it is possible to load a cartridge image off CD-ROM if you've got the right hardware.

TailChao's StupidCard would work ... it specifically supports that kind of thing, and the TED2 should allow the same thing (according to KRIKzz's information).

A PCE bootable CD could also be produced that would copy the game to a regular TED1 or TED2's SD card.

I don't think that anyone actually mentioned magically making the cartridge image into a regular real SuperCD game.

But ... if you want cash, and you don't want to pay upfont for a bunch of Aetherbutt's or dbElectronics' flash HuCards ... then there are ways to cheaply produce a version of the game on CD that a bunch of people could then buy and play.

It's an alternative ... not a great one, but still an alternative ... if you want quick and easy money, and if you don't mind limiting your potential market (until you raise enough cash to produce real carts).

It would, of course, be pirated in about 5 minutes ... but then so would any actual HuCard release.

[esteban]

I am confused, and it smells funny:

HuCARD and CD-ROM are distinct formats.

It is not a trivial task to convert from one format to the other.

And yet...folks are talking as if the Dino Force prototype, if it exists, can effortlessly manifest itself as a HuCARD or CD-ROM.

OK, just one more post on this, then.

pongstory already knows that he can't just burn a CD and have it work.

But it is possible to load a cartridge image off CD-ROM if you've got the right hardware.

TailChao's StupidCard would work ... it specifically supports that kind of thing, and the TED2 should allow the same thing (according to KRIKzz's information).

A PCE bootable CD could also be produced that would copy the game to a regular TED1 or TED2's SD card.

I don't think that anyone actually mentioned magically making the cartridge image into a regular real SuperCD game.

But ... if you want cash, and you don't want to pay upfont for a bunch of Aetherbutt's or dbElectronics' flash HuCards ... then there are ways to cheaply produce a version of the game on CD that a bunch of people could then buy and play.

It's an alternative ... not a great one, but still an alternative ... if you want quick and easy money, and if you don't mind limiting your potential market (until you raise enough cash to produce real carts).

It would, of course, be pirated in about 5 minutes ... but then so would any actual HuCard release.

Gotcha, understood.

[pongstory]

Thanks for you replies.
I indeed have this Dino Force prototype.
What I forgot to say is that the guy was supposed to pay for the price, and stopped paying without prior notice. That's why I didn't keep the money in a safe way. Anyhow.

The list of games proposed is here:
http://www.pong-story.com/temp/nec.txt

I do not have these games. The prices are what the guy considers they are worth, which I doubt after checking some ebay sales.

There are two questions now.
1) What, in the worst case, would I get from all these games, especially from those which would sell faster, and then once all the rest is sold ?
2) If it's really not worth selling these games, how much would a HuCard release of Dino Force cost, including a nice label / case to make real collector ? How many should I make and what would be the typical resale price ? If this can pay for my investment, I'll then propose the guy to refund him little by little in order to compensate the income from the release. But that's just a blur idea. I'll check the new hucard you're talking about and see how this looks like.

Thanks for your hints. I hope I can solve my problem soon, whichever option is best.
And yes, I would love to see a release of this game to share it, but only if it can cover my initial investment (which I prefer not to disclose so far).

[bob]

/games/lincoln.jpg

[pongstory]

No, there is no release planned. It's only an idea IF (and only IF) I need to cancel the sale, and IF this can be done without drying the bank up.

My two options are:
1) I take the 185 NOS (sealed) games and sell them in a reasonable amount of time to pay for the balance owed, no matter if I get more than what is owed.
2) I find a way to refund the guy and decide to release the game ONLY IF this can at least pay for the initial investment AND production costs. Here, the problem is to know how many specimens should be made, for how much they should be sold, and what I would get out of this production.

Before talking about the release, what should I do with these 185 NOS games ?
Are they way over-estimated ?
Thanks again for your help.

[kisaku]

No, there is no release planned. It's only an idea IF (and only IF) I need to cancel the sale, and IF this can be done without drying the bank up.

My two options are:
1) I take the 185 NOS (sealed) games and sell them in a reasonable amount of time to pay for the balance owed, no matter if I get more than what is owed.
2) I find a way to refund the guy and decide to release the game ONLY IF this can at least pay for the initial investment AND production costs. Here, the problem is to know how many specimens should be made, for how much they should be sold, and what I would get out of this production.

Before talking about the release, what should I do with these 185 NOS games ?
Are they way over-estimated ?
Thanks again for your help.

I am checking the list
Well except twinbee that i think it will be max 55-60, others are ok...

[Otaking]

The list of games proposed is here:
http://www.pong-story.com/temp/nec.txt

Where the quantity of games is greater than 1 is the price listed the price for each individual game, or the total price for all the games?
For example is it valued at a $100 for 1 CD Denjin or the price 10 copies.

[NecroPhile]

Where the quantity of games is greater than 1 is the price listed the price for each individual game, or the total price for all the games?  For example is it valued at a $100 for 1 CD Denjin or the price 10 copies.

That's what I was wondering.  If it's per copy, then the total 'estimated value' of that list is over $10k, which would be a nigh impossible value to ever net in resale.  And if that's the intent, the Dino Force is "worth" $40k.  To net that in selling booty hueys, you'd probably have to sell at least 600 copies at $100 each, which are pie in the sky numbers; a booty cd that'd use a custom system card would be far cheaper to produce and thus require fewer sales numbers, but you'd also severely limit your audience.

Man, I hope the 'estimated value' is a total, as ~$6k would be much more feasible.

[bob]

if the "ask" for 1 Shinobi is 65, then there is NO WAY they are asking 185 for 6 Ninja Gaidens or only 100 for 10 CD Denj.

[pongstory]

The prices in the list are on a per copy basis as the guy estimated the total price at $10K or so, supposing everything sells at what he thinks it's worth. What I don't know is how long this would take and I honestly have no serious time to involve in this.

Another approach is that I propose Dino Force here for sale on an offer basis (I won't disclose any price). Maybe that would be an easier option to refund the guy and see a nice release happen (in which case I'd ask for the first specimen, hopefully numbered).

Just thinking of a way to sort this out.....

[bob]

if you sell it here...are you GUARANTEEING there are no rips/burns/images out there floating around?  Not even you are keeping any sort of copy of this thing?

Is that you on the home page of pong story with Ralph?

[elmer]

Hahaha ... and now we get the sly offer of a sale to some member here with more money than sense.

It would be absolutely hilarious if this were just Tobias winding up the more insane collectards in the community.

The YouTube video itself showed nothing more than a generic eprom test card with zero actual identification on it, or proof that it was a one-and-only original.

It's not exactly hard to burn an eprom, and the test cards aren't that expensive.

[pongstory]

I have never attempted to distribute anything nor did I share any of my ROM images (I indeed have several other prototypes for other platforms such as Atatri 2600 and Odyssey 2, but not for later systems).
Yes indeed it's me with Ralph Baer on the welcome page of my site. If you click the link just under the picture you'll see the original photo.

If I happen to sell Dino Force to somebody (wherever) I would obviously guarantee that I did not share the rom and that I would keep my single rom image until the buyer physically receives the game, after what I would destroy it. This was also part of the initial sale. However I cannot tell you if any other prototype exists. My prototype was initially purchased in Japan. I really doubt it's a bootleg of some sort, otherwise at least one other copy would have surfaced somewhere.

[julencin2000]

I sold an unreleased PCE prototype.

I'm not familiar with PCE games

...

[bob]

LOL

[pongstory]

I sold an unreleased PCE prototype.

I'm not familiar with PCE games

...

And so what ? That's just IT. I don't even have a PCE or similar console. Not even one console running CDs. What's the problem with buying something you don't collect as far as it makes an interesting trade item ?

I haven't even decided to sell it for a second time in order to cancel the initial deal. That's just an idea, not even a way to ask for some offers. If I ever decide to sell it, I will open a new thread.

[julencin2000]

No probs at all, man.

I wonder what I would do if I encounter somebody with an unreleased prototype of MSX2, plattform unknown to me.

How could I know if it is real or fake.
How could I decide a price to buy it.
Then decide to sell it. For how much.
Where to engage with possible buyers.
How to agree again on a price. A monthly payment.

Just wondering.

[Otaking]

I sold an unreleased PCE prototype.

I'm not familiar with PCE games

...

And so what ? That's just IT.

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/26668.jpg

[esteban]

HahjJaajjajajjhajhaha.

Pennywise.

[elmer]

Yes indeed it's me with Ralph Baer on the welcome page of my site. If you click the link just under the picture you'll see the original photo.

OK, so that makes you David Winter.

Well done with the Pong Story website!

Now, from the comments on YouTube video, which was posted 2 years ago by "TheYoupiland"

This prototype was sold 3 years ago, but the sale may have been cancelled.

Then it was auctioned 2 years ago for 10,000€.

Then you youself posted 1 year ago ...

And the good news is that the happy owner has decided to make a limited edition CD in a collector pack. No more information for the moment ...

Which doesn't really make it sound like you're the owner or that you personally bought it in Japan, but perhaps that's just a bad Google translation.

Perhaps you are indeed the original owner from 3+ years ago, and you've just had at least 1 expensive sale fall though already ... and then now you're here talking about another sale with problems.

That's a lot of bad luck!

But whatever ... if you either bought it or agreed to sell it 2 years ago for $10,000, then accepting $5,000-$10,000 worth of games as only 25% payment ... well, I'm curious, just how much profit are you looking for?

[pongstory]

I'm not really trying to make some profit on it. At least that's not the goal.
My goal right now is to finish a deal or to find another solution, hence this thread.

Since you seem interested to know what really happened, here's the story:
This game was originally bought in Japan, but not by me (I never said that *I* bought it in Japan).
It was then put in auction in Paris where I live. When I saw this, I got some infos from the auction expert who I know well, and I bought it because my initial idea was to make a release (hence the post that you found). If you know the expert, then ask him yourself to verify.

Just for your info, I once found an unreleased Atari 2600 game: 3D Rubik's Cube. With AtariAge we did a very nice release in a deluxe box, etc. You can check that if you want (and I still have some numbered specimens for sale by the way).

So I wanted to do something similar.  After the purchase, I checked who made some HuCards but it happened to be too expensive at the time (a blank flash cost $49 back then). So I decided to keep it should a better solution exist.
If a cheaper solution did exist at this time, I didn't find it mainly because I didn't have my whole days as I'm raising a young family and run my own antiques shop.

And so I kept the DF prototype until someone contacted me about the auction where other interesting games were sold. Somewhere along the discussion I mentioned what I bought and the guy seemed very interested. We agreed on a price, and you know the rest of the story.

If you find yourself smart or funny by taking parts of texts here and there and then try to build nonsense stories, you're wasting your time and this is totaly useless, for not saying stupid.

As a reminder, the goal of this thread is to know whether I should accept a proposition to finish a deal.

If you really think I don't have the DF proto, that's your option, and it would be quite stupid I must say especially since some other people have seen it in person.

So let's try to do something constructive, right ? This leaves three options.

1) The lot of 185 games is definitely worth what the guy owes me and won't take more than several months to sell. If so, that's fine with me and I'll go for it.
2) The lot is not worth the money (and time). This leaves the last two options: either doing a nice release so that everybody interested can enjoy it, and I can at the same time refund the guy and get my investments back, or simply resell it to whoever will make a serious and acceptable offer, elthough I would much prefer doing a release without loosing money).

If that's not clear enough, well I don't know what else I can say.
It's your right to not believe me, but please stop sharing your mistakes. Thanks.

[cabbage]

If the original agreement was that you would be paid money for the whole price (and not a partial trade using games to cover the value), then that should be honored. If the buyer thinks those games are worth more than the amount owed, he/she should just sell them off and pay you the remainder of what is owed. (*In my opinion)

If you take the deal, you might make more money, or you might 'lose' money--since sealed PCE games don't seem to be as hot a collectible as, say, sealed Nintendo games have come to be. Either way, you're going to be putting forth a lot of time and energy trying to sell off all those games.

It's certainly possible to produce the hucards and sell them. Without knowing what you paid for the proto, it's impossible to say how easy it will be to recover your initial investment.

New hucards can allegedly be produced for approx. $20 (USD), perhaps even a bit less. New, 3D-printed hucard cases are being sold for well under $10 each here on the forums. New hucard sleeves are cheaply available as well. I don't know the costs for manufacturing a manual/insert, but I'm sure it's insignificant compared to the other costs. So, roughly estimate $30-35 to produce a nice hucard/sleeve/case/manual.

From there, you can do the math better than I would without knowing your exact situation. Certainly I, and many others, would be happy to support an effort to bring a long-lost PC Engine title into the light of day.

Of course, it is up to you what you do with it. Good luck with whatever you decide.

RE: the values of those games... well, they're sealed, so it's harder to determine. Perhaps there are some sealed collectors out there willing to pay a premium, but there are far more who would prefer a cheaper, open copy so it can actually be played. Most of the prices seem too high, in my humble opinion, with the exception of perhaps "Bouken Danshaken Don San-Heart Hen" at 35 (US Dollars, I hope).

To give a concrete example, I recently saw nine copies of Fatal Fury 2 sell for around $3-4 (USD) each locally. They sold quickly, mind you, so perhaps they're worth a bit more.

Browsing ebay, I see new copies of Final Soldier that just sold for $35, $50, $52, $54, $29, and $27. Pomping World sold for $32. Twinbee sold for $60. Bomberman for $32. PC Genjin 3 sold for $152--twice--and PC Genjin 2 for $103, both of which are very surprising to me. PC Denjin sold for $106. Minesweeper sold for $15, but another failed to sell at $12.

Still on ebay, a new copy of Bomberman 94 went unsold at $50. Space Harrier went unsold at $34. Ninja Gaiden failed to sell at $130. Darius Plus failed to sell at $65. Dynastic Hero failed to sell at $10(!).

Note that none of those account for shipping costs, if applicable. Hope those figures help~

[esteban]

Pongstory, it is natural for many folks to be skeptical. How could they not be? I want to believe you, but I'd be a fool not to be wary.

We have classic case of a highly desirable, unique item (Dino Force), coupled with a person who is new to the community and therefore has not established credibility/reputation (yet).

Naturally, we all want to believe this is legit, but we can't help being skeptical. Especially with such large amounts of $$$ involved.

I wish there was a safe way for us to hold money in escrow....this would help tremendously in situations like this.

[pongstory]

I wish I could make a video and show the game in action, but I have no console right now and all emulators won't run correctly. Sprites don't appear under emulation, but the game works great on a friend's LT. If a video showing an incorrect emulation is ok for you to believe that I actually have this prototype even if I'm completely new to NEC stuff, then I'll be happy to try doing one for you.

[NecroPhile]

At this point, does it really matter if you really have it or not?  It won't change anyone's opinion that the price list given is unrealistic, nor will it change the estimated costs of booty production.  The only purpose it serves is if you're fishing for a buyer.

[MotherGunner]

Some of those estimated values are incorrect IMO.

[elmer]

I wish there was a safe way for us to hold money in escrow....this would help tremendously in situations like this.

escrow.com ... I was introduced to them recently in the sale of a domain-name.

For example ...

• Buyer deposits the money with escrow.com
• Seller sends the ROM to a lawyer (of his choosing) close to the buyer.
• Buyer opens the package, tests the ROM, and either accepts or rejects the sale.
• Buyer contacts escrow.com to release the funds to the seller.
• Lawyer verifies the transfer and releases the ROM to the buyer, or just sends it back to the seller.

But really, folks ... $10,000-$20,000 for the game that was shown in that YouTube video????

The same game that you were trying to raise $5,000 for in 2012?

https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=13443.0

[elmer]

that was 2012 dollars.  2015 has turbo dollars of 3-4x now. get with the times!

Hahaha, I totally forgot about the amazing economic recovery! 

[wildfruit]

I bought bomber man 94 for about £10 a year ago.
Energy is worth nothing just give that crap away.
Detana twinbee can easily be had for less than half that price. Also not only is this cunt not paying you he is hoarding 60+ genjin/denjin games.
Damn hoarder.
Scuse my language.
Just saying.

[xcrement5x]

Put me on the list of folks that hope you find a way to sell/release this title.  At least the Euro is weaker now, so if whoever is buying it is doing so in USD, then they're getting a much better deal today than in 2012!

[pongstory]

Thanks for your details.

I'm definitely not trying to phish a buyer. As I said, that's only an option which isn't my preferred.

The overall opinion on those 185 games is that I would make some  money with the best titles, but would also need a lot of time to sell the rest.
If I could get up to $6500 quickly, I'd definitely opt for it (so no, the guy doesn't owe me $10K) and send the guy his game.

Too bad I didn't know about escrow, that would have probably been easier, but how much does this cost ? A lawyer isn't cheap in any case.

[elmer]

If you find yourself smart or funny by taking parts of texts here and there and then try to build nonsense stories, you're wasting your time and this is totaly useless, for not saying stupid.

Nope, I'm neither particularly smart, nor particularly funny, but I do quite like a puzzle ... and there are things that you refuse to say that I'm rather curious about.

At this point, I've read enough to honestly believe that you do actually have the prototype cartridge ... but that wasn't at all certain when you turned up out of nowhere with this story.

I am pretty ignorant about this particular Dino Force prototype game, and so I've been wasting my time trying to understand both the game itself and it's recent history.

While the details may be a little inaccurate, I think that I've got a handle on the overall arc ...

In 2012, people here were trying to club together with another PCE forum in France to raise 500,000 Yen to buy the game from Akiba Games in Japan.

There is a comment in the YouTube thread that the game sells at auction in Paris for 10,000 Euro in 2013/2014.

That gives us some idea of the price that you paid when you said ...

This game was originally bought in Japan, but not by me (I never said that *I* bought it in Japan).
It was then put in auction in Paris where I live. When I saw this, I got some infos from the auction expert who I know well, and I bought it because my initial idea was to make a release (hence the post that you found).

Now in 2015, you're selling this game on to another buyer for a price that you won't disclose (which is absolutely your right).

But, you've given us enough clues that we can estimate a ballpark figure, since you've said ...

We agreed the price and the buyer sent monthly payments until he stopped paying (he owes me 25% of the agreed price which I will keep confidential).

If I could get up to $6500 quickly, I'd definitely opt for it (so no, the guy doesn't owe me $10K) and send the guy his game.

Let's say that you're valuing the time that it would take to organize the "quick" sales of the CDs that you've been offered at $1,500.

That would lead us to an estimate that the 25% figure that the buyer owes is currently valued at $5,000.

Which would suggest that you've already been paid $15,000 out of a $20,000 "agreed" price.

At today's exchange rate, that's a 17,500 Euro selling price.

That's for a prototype that you seemingly purchased for 10,000 Euro.

You're welcome to correct any of those figures, should you wish to.

You said ...

I'm not really trying to make some profit on it. At least that's not the goal.

Really?

BTW ... there's absolutely nothing wrong with making a profit, that's how we all live, you don't need to be ashamed of it.

Just for your info, I once found an unreleased Atari 2600 game: 3D Rubik's Cube. With AtariAge we did a very nice release in a deluxe box, etc. You can check that if you want (and I still have some numbered specimens for sale by the way).

I wasn't familiar with the story around the 3D Rubik's Cube game, so I thought that I'd take up the offer and waste some more of my time to do a little research.

This site gives an interesting history of that particular discovery ...

http://www.2600connection.com/articles/3d_rubiks_cube/3d_rubiks_cube.html

[NecroPhile]

This site gives an interesting history of that particular discovery ...

I was going to skip reading that wall o' text, but I'm glad I didn't.  Such lulzery. 

[xcrement5x]

This site gives an interesting history of that particular discovery ...

I was going to skip reading that wall o' text, but I'm glad I didn't.  Such lulzery. 

No joke, kind of reminds me kind that guy who was making the Predator Pinball.

[esteban]

If you find yourself smart or funny by taking parts of texts here and there and then try to build nonsense stories, you're wasting your time and this is totaly useless, for not saying stupid.

Nope, I'm neither particularly smart, nor particularly funny, but I do quite like a puzzle ... and there are things that you refuse to say that I'm rather curious about.

At this point, I've read enough to honestly believe that you do actually have the prototype cartridge ... but that wasn't at all certain when you turned up out of nowhere with this story.

I am pretty ignorant about this particular Dino Force prototype game, and so I've been wasting my time trying to understand both the game itself and it's recent history.

While the details may be a little inaccurate, I think that I've got a handle on the overall arc ...

In 2012, people here were trying to club together with another PCE forum in France to raise 500,000 Yen to buy the game from Akiba Games in Japan.

There is a comment in the YouTube thread that the game sells at auction in Paris for 10,000 Euro in 2013/2014.

That gives us some idea of the price that you paid when you said ...

This game was originally bought in Japan, but not by me (I never said that *I* bought it in Japan).
It was then put in auction in Paris where I live. When I saw this, I got some infos from the auction expert who I know well, and I bought it because my initial idea was to make a release (hence the post that you found).

Now in 2015, you're selling this game on to another buyer for a price that you won't disclose (which is absolutely your right).

But, you've given us enough clues that we can estimate a ballpark figure, since you've said ...

We agreed the price and the buyer sent monthly payments until he stopped paying (he owes me 25% of the agreed price which I will keep confidential).

If I could get up to $6500 quickly, I'd definitely opt for it (so no, the guy doesn't owe me $10K) and send the guy his game.

Let's say that you're valuing the time that it would take to organize the "quick" sales of the CDs that you've been offered at $1,500.

That would lead us to an estimate that the 25% figure that the buyer owes is currently valued at $5,000.

Which would suggest that you've already been paid $15,000 out of a $20,000 "agreed" price.

At today's exchange rate, that's a 17,500 Euro selling price.

That's for a prototype that you seemingly purchased for 10,000 Euro.

You're welcome to correct any of those figures, should you wish to.

You said ...

I'm not really trying to make some profit on it. At least that's not the goal.

Really?

BTW ... there's absolutely nothing wrong with making a profit, that's how we all live, you don't need to be ashamed of it.

Just for your info, I once found an unreleased Atari 2600 game: 3D Rubik's Cube. With AtariAge we did a very nice release in a deluxe box, etc. You can check that if you want (and I still have some numbered specimens for sale by the way).

I wasn't familiar with the story around the 3D Rubik's Cube game, so I thought that I'd take up the offer and waste some more of my time to do a little research.

This site gives an interesting history of that particular discovery ...

http://www.2600connection.com/articles/3d_rubiks_cube/3d_rubiks_cube.html

Yeah, I read that.

Interesting.

[NecroPhile]

By the way, what is this doing in the PC-FX subforum?!?  It's not even really a sale/trade thread for fuck's sake!

Thread moved from PC-FX Sales & Trades to PCE Discussion.

[PunkCryborg]

By the way, what is this doing in the PC-FX subforum?!?  It's not even really a sale/trade thread for fuck's sake!

Thread moved from PC-FX Sales & Trades to PCE Discussion.

Can you change the title to while you are at it to "Flippers: this is why we can't have nice things like Dino Force PCE"

[ParanoiaDragon]

Man, having to sell all those games to comp what the buyer owes doesn't seem fair.  Pongstory, depending on how long the games take to sell, could end up with 100+ games sitting around, waiting to be bought.  I hope you can find a solution to your predicament!  I would love to see some sort of physical release of the game, but I won't get my hopes too high.

[schweaty]

if those games really are what the buyer claims they are worth, he should sell them and pay you what he owes you.  that is all.