What game would YOU have packed in with the Turbo?

Dicer · 08/31/2015, 10:39 PM

Quote from: neopolss on 08/31/2015, 10:30 PMTotally agree. Rastan 2 was the worst. But is it worse than china warrior?

Yes, yes it is....

China warrior is enjoyable for what it is...Rastan 2 is just clunky and messy.

esteban · 08/31/2015, 11:19 PM

Quote from: Dicer on 08/31/2015, 10:39 PM
Quote from: neopolss on 08/31/2015, 10:30 PMTotally agree. Rastan 2 was the worst. But is it worse than china warrior?
Yes, yes it is....

China warrior is enjoyable for what it is...Rastan 2 is just clunky and messy.

I have been defending China Warrior forever.

It is a misunderstood game.

I don't want rehash my entire "IN DEFENSE OF CHINA WARRIOR" spiel, but the only thing that is lame/cheap in China Warrior are some (not all) of the bosses.

Otherwise, it is an awesome game.

PENDING:

DragonmasterDan · 09/01/2015, 08:17 AM

Quote from: esteban on 08/31/2015, 03:24 PMI hear you

However, I want to go on the record to state that, IMHO, Gradius III is not broken by slowdown/flicker, I actually enjoy playing it.

My reasoning is simple: the presence of flicker/slowdown, in and of itself, does not ruin a game. Some of the best NES games have moments of flicker/slowdown that do not cause any real harm. If slowdown/flicker creates an inherently unfair situation, then I can't excuse it. But I have never had this problem with, say, Konami's games.

It's true: I fantasized that Konami would have revisited Gradius III and released a "remixed" version that included the + "original" SNES version in a new "improved" form (optimizing/streamlining code to reduced flicker/slowdown)...but that was nothing but a daydream.

Some people like the slowdown as it makes games easier.

Over the weekend I had some friends over, one of whom wanted to try the PAL TurboGrafx to see if it made playing a particularly tough game easier.

esteban · 09/01/2015, 08:36 AM

Quote from: DragonmasterDan on 09/01/2015, 08:17 AMSome people like the slowdown as it makes games easier.

Over the weekend I had some friends over, one of whom wanted to try the PAL TurboGrafx to see if it made playing a particularly tough game easier.

I think this is why I don't mind it in Gradius III, ha!

So, did PAL make the TG-16 games easier?

DragonmasterDan · 09/01/2015, 08:55 AM

Quote from: esteban on 09/01/2015, 08:36 AMI think this is why I don't mind it in Gradius III, ha!

So, did PAL make the TG-16 games easier?

See for yourself.

esteban · 09/01/2015, 09:18 AM

Quote from: DragonmasterDan on 09/01/2015, 08:55 AM
Quote from: esteban on 09/01/2015, 08:36 AMI think this is why I don't mind it in Gradius III, ha!

So, did PAL make the TG-16 games easier?
See for yourself.

Tatsujin is still challenging, even @PAL, ha!

THOUGHTS
(1) I'm good at the "tunnels" in AeroBlasters, but dodging in those mazes of tunnels would probably be much easier @PAL.

(2) •••••• Anyway: the shootemups that work "best" with @PAL are ones that allow you to adjust speed and/or collect tons of speed-ups...you could probably crush games by achieving a "normal" speed for your fighter, but with all opponents and projectiles slowed down by __% @PAL (I forget, is @PAL 10-15% slower?). ••••••••

(3)?However, even the music is slowed down @PAL, correct? That would probably irk me.

NOTE: I was going to use "@" gratuitously throughout this post.

DragonmasterDan · 09/01/2015, 09:29 AM

Quote from: esteban on 09/01/2015, 09:18 AM(3)?However, even the music is slowed down @PAL, correct? That would probably irk me.

NOTE: I was going to use "@" gratuitously through this post.

Yeah, the music is slowed down on all the games we tried which were entirely limited to shooters. But we noticed that with Tatsujin, Raiden, R-Type, etc.

JoshTurboTrollX · 09/01/2015, 12:08 PM

In response to the original post - I'd say R-Type or Ninja Spirit. Shows off the parallax and proves that the system is just as good (or superior) to the Genesis' releases of '89. Then they'd pick up Legendary Axe or whatever other type of games at launch to complete a nice launch day.

On a side note, I've always thought NEC should've released a set with Splatterhouse to coincide with the 1990 Halloween to holiday season to grab the older crowd.

Second side note - Keith Courage is a better game than Altered Beast, but nobody knew what it was.. If Keith had an arcade release in 1988 or early 1989 it's possible that it would have generated some interest....

DragonmasterDan · 09/01/2015, 01:00 PM

Quote from: JoshTurboTrollX-16 on 09/01/2015, 12:08 PMOn a side note, I've always thought NEC should've released a set with Splatterhouse to coincide with the 1990 Halloween to holiday season to grab the older crowd.

With the black and orange color scheme the system always reminded me of Halloween in the first place.

esteban · 09/01/2015, 01:32 PM

Quote from: DragonmasterDan on 09/01/2015, 01:00 PM
Quote from: JoshTurboTrollX-16 on 09/01/2015, 12:08 PMOn a side note, I've always thought NEC should've released a set with Splatterhouse to coincide with the 1990 Halloween to holiday season to grab the older crowd.
With the black and orange color scheme the system always reminded me of Halloween in the first place.

Yes, Every year, a different free game with lots of merchandise give-aways and themed promotions would have been great:

1989 XMAS = Legendary Axe (Jagu magnifying glass)
1990 Holiday = Splatterhouse (Rick Masks + wristbands)
1991 Holidaze = Bonk's Adventure (headbands + aspirin bottles)
1992 Hollandaise = Bonk's Revenge (switchblade mustache comb)
1993 Haul-n-Day = Bonk 3 (Raspberry Beret, fanny pack)

JoshTurboTrollX · 09/01/2015, 01:35 PM

Quote from: esteban on 09/01/2015, 01:32 PM
Quote from: DragonmasterDan on 09/01/2015, 01:00 PM
Quote from: JoshTurboTrollX-16 on 09/01/2015, 12:08 PMOn a side note, I've always thought NEC should've released a set with Splatterhouse to coincide with the 1990 Halloween to holiday season to grab the older crowd.
With the black and orange color scheme the system always reminded me of Halloween in the first place.
Yes, Every year, a different free game with lots of merchandise give-aways and themed promotions would have been great:

1989 XMAS = Legendary Axe (Jagu magnifying glass)
1990 Holiday = Splatterhouse (Rick Masks + wristbands)
1991 Holidaze = Bonk's Adventure (headbands + aspirin bottles)
1992 Hollandaise = Bonk's Revenge (switchblade mustache comb)
1993 Haul-n-Day = Bonk 3 (Raspberry Beret, fanny pack)

1994 U-Haul Day = Magical Chase (Magicoal pack in, Broomstick)

seieienbu · 09/01/2015, 06:52 PM

I've always thought Altered Beasts was a very mediocre game. I've never exactly understood why websites make statements like "Altered Beasts is a triumph of programming compared to Kieth Courage." I always thought it was boring and bad. That being said, Kieth Courage isn't the greatest game either. Of the initial offerings, I think Legendary Axe would probably be the best as a platformer was clearly the way to go in that time period. That being said, Blazing Lazers was the game that sold me on the turbo.

In magical fantasy land, if you really wanted to compete against Sega in a bid to capture slightly older audiences with an arcade game with some maturity, it would have been cool if Splatterhouse had come out a year earlier and had been included. Splatterhouse blows Altered Beasts out of the water on just about every conceivable level.

johnnykonami · 09/01/2015, 07:10 PM

I first played Altered Beast in the arcade when I was a kid, and it was decidedly cool but not that deep of a game really so it wasn't exciting as a Genesis pack-in to me. My older cousin got the Genny when it first came out, and got a bunch of the release (or close to release) titles that I remember so much more fondly like Thunderforce 2, Last Battle (I might be the only one who likes this game), Ghouls n' Ghosts, and Space Harrier II. (Admittedly not as good as I had hoped being a huge Space Harrier fan at the time)

Given the choice between Super Mario World, Keith Courage, and Altered Beast, I think Keith was still the best pack-in out of the 3 for me. KC had the anime vibe (and mecha vibe) I was completely into at the time, it also had the underdog appeal and was the least common and most unique among my friends, and that mentality has always worked for me. (I also liked the music and underworld stages a ton, it wasn't all elitist appeal, I honestly liked the game) I think the last cool Mario platformer to me was SMB3, I just always felt SMW is where everything got washed out and since then, Mario games have just been getting more and more infantile.

PukeSter · 09/01/2015, 08:34 PM

Quote from: johnnykonami on 09/01/2015, 07:10 PMGiven the choice between Super Mario World, Keith Courage, and Altered Beast, I think Keith was still the best pack-in out of the 3 for me.

What the fuck...

Even Altered Beast is better.

I never thought the day would come where someone thought a 3rd rate Wonder Boy clone was better than one of the highest rated platformers of all time.

I'm not much of an SNES person, but Mario World is in a league of its own. Few platformers on any of the three systems reach its level.

johnnykonami · 09/01/2015, 08:40 PM

Quote from: guest on 09/01/2015, 08:34 PM
Quote from: johnnykonami on 09/01/2015, 07:10 PMGiven the choice between Super Mario World, Keith Courage, and Altered Beast, I think Keith was still the best pack-in out of the 3 for me.
What the fuck...

Even Altered Beast is better.

I disagree, what can I say? Most beat em' up type games get pretty old after a few plays, and I think KC is an alright game, even if it's not a masterpiece. Or.... is it?

The sauce doesn't lie, friend.

neopolss · 09/01/2015, 10:11 PM

Altered beast was a good show-off title that looked good and was modestly fun. Thats a good pack in. Keith courage just didnt look impressive. I can still remember the kiosk in toys r us. The game looked dorky and the packaging for the turbo grafx looked dumb. It reminds me of the side art for the nintendo super system (just awful)! I agree that r-type is an impressive looking title with the large boss for the money shot, but the game is hard, and would have easily turned away new players. Despite my misgivings on keith courage, im not sure if there was anything else at the time worth pairing with it.

johnnykonami · 09/01/2015, 10:40 PM

Quote from: guest on 09/01/2015, 08:34 PM
Quote from: johnnykonami on 09/01/2015, 07:10 PMGiven the choice between Super Mario World, Keith Courage, and Altered Beast, I think Keith was still the best pack-in out of the 3 for me.
What the fuck...

Even Altered Beast is better.

I never thought the day would come where someone thought a 3rd rate Wonder Boy clone was better than one of the highest rated platformers of all time.

I'm not much of an SNES person, but Mario World is in a league of its own. Few platformers on any of the three systems reach its level.

Missed your edit! I never said KC was better than SMW without adding "for me." I just feel it's a bland looking and feeling entry especially after SMB2 and SMB3 which I think had a lot of character in comparison. I recognize SMW's pedigree but personally it just doesn't excite me. I wouldn't call KC a Wonder Boy clone, either.

DragonmasterDan · 09/02/2015, 04:15 AM

Quote from: neopolss on 09/01/2015, 10:11 PMAltered beast was a good show-off title that looked good and was modestly fun. Thats a good pack in. Keith courage just didnt look impressive. I can still remember the kiosk in toys r us. The game looked dorky and the packaging for the turbo grafx looked dumb. It reminds me of the side art for the nintendo super system (just awful)! I agree that r-type is an impressive looking title with the large boss for the money shot, but the game is hard, and would have easily turned away new players. Despite my misgivings on keith courage, im not sure if there was anything else at the time worth pairing with it.

I remember being 8 years old, seeing the rainbow colors lift Keith Courage into the air, followed by the ever growing larger sprite of the mech suit. Then seeing the mech levels and being blown away. Then hearing the mech stage music, seeing the detailed graphics and how fast it moved. It was clear this was a generation ahead of the industry standard NES.

I think it was a good showpiece game. Yes, the overworld segments aren't great looking but once the surprise of the robot suit transformation happens all of a sudden it had peoples complete attention at least for a little while.

A Black Falcon · 09/08/2015, 03:01 AM

Yeah, the correct answer really is Legendary Axe. I don't care for the game too much -- I probably actually like Keith Courage more -- but Legendary Axe was popular and got awards, while Keith Courage has been hated on for decades, so the correct choice is clear. Legendary Axe has better graphics too, certainly.

I'd like to say that the best answer is R-Type -- it's clearly the best game of the three (and those three are the obvious top choices for packin games) and it looks absolutely amazing (clearly a generation ahead of stuff like the SMS version) -- but as incredible as R-Type is, it is more of a love-or-hate game thanks to its difficulty level, so I can understand the reasons to go for a platformer instead. But R-Type as the pack in would have been an interesting thing to see...

Quote from: Gentlegamer on 08/31/2015, 05:42 PMDon't let the spirit of Sega-16 seep into this forum, where any discussion that mentions any technical thing turns into a fanboy dig at SNES accompanied by the usual strawman attacks.

Agreed.

Quote from: guest on 08/31/2015, 03:11 PMInstead of returns, the SNES only spawned the first generation of Nintendo zealots like A Black Falcon, who reverse engineer reality to claim that Super Gradius III is the best and definitive version and that when slowdown happens frequently enough, it becomes the new standard and is in fact creating new and superior gameplay experiences. I really wish that was sarcasm and not literally a sampling of ABF's cross-forum preaching over the years.

Seriously, stop it with the personal attacks, as Gentlegamer said there's far too much of that at Sega-16.

But to talk about Gradius games in general, I love the whole Gradius series, it's amazing and my favorite shmup franchise by a mile! Gradius is my favorite shmup on the NES, Gradius II is my favorite shmup on the Turbo CD, Gradius III is my favorite shmup on the SNES, Gradius: The Interstellar Assault is my favorite shmup on the Game Boy, Gradius V is my favorite shmup on the PS2, Gradius Gaiden is at least one of the best shmups on PS1, Gradius ReBirth is my favorite shmup on the Wii (not including Virtual Console)... the series in general is amazing and has been my favorite series in the genre ever since I played, and loved, the original Gradius back probably in the late '80s.

For Gradius III in particular if you can't handle the slowdown that's too bad, but it's as great a game as any other game in the series.

Oh yeah, and I know that I've said that Gradius III is my favorite 4th-gen shmup, but actually, that's not entirely true; if we include the nostalgia factor, there's only one possible answer to that question:" Gradius: The Interstellar Assault for the Game Boy! I didn't own a SNES until 2005, remember. Gradius III isn't a game I had played much of until the '00s. I loved the original Gradius for the NES when I'd played it, but the first Gradius game I owned myself was Interstellar Assault, and I'd still rank it as one of my favorites in the genre. Probably the main reason I mention Gradius III as better is because the SNES game has probably twice as many levels and is many times harder than the short and fairly easy Interstellar Assault; as incredible a game as it is, it is pretty short and easy, or maybe it's just easy because I've beaten it so many times; I've probably finished that game more than almost any other game I've ever played, I absolutely love it. Gradius III, though? Haven't played it much in some years now, since beating it back in the late '00s. So yeah, Gradius: The Interstellar Assault is one of my favorite shmups ever made. Exceptional game. I love everything about it other than its small number of levels. It has better boss variety than Gradius III, the levels connect and flow in a way not seen anywhere else in the series other than maybe Gradius V, it doesn't have much slowdown, etc.

And on a related note, it really wasn't until I got the Turbo CD version last year that I'd played much of Gradius II; I didn't see it in arcades, and in emulation and such hadn't really played it past that first level. I'd always wrongly overlooked it in favor of the newer Gradius III. And yeah, Gradius II is amazing. I don't know if I like it more than Gradius III, it's hard to say when looking at two games that are so incredibly great! Gradius II is a fantastic, fantastic game, and certainly is worth considering for best shmup of the generation. It might just be my new favorite shmup of the generation, in fact... though The Interstellar Assault is hard to beat, for me.

QuoteIt's unfortunate, because I find that most blind fanboys don't really appreciate the SNES library and spend most of their time defending its lackluster games or praising the typical top game list entries, instead of discovering all the great games that receive little fanfare, which they are completely oblivious to.

Every successful console ever has its popular classics as well as its less popular great games that people don't know as much about despite their quality. There is nothing special about nay Nintendo platform in this regard, everything is like that.

Quote from: neopolss on 08/31/2015, 10:30 PMTotally agree. Rastan 2 was the worst. But is it worse than china warrior?

I think that China Warrior is pretty bad... but no, it's not as bad as Rastan Saga II, no way. That game is so horrible, it's kind of bizarre that somehow they thought that would be an okay sequel to a great classic like Rastan...

(Oh, and on the TG16, I dislike Battle Royale and Takin' it to the Hoop even more than I do China Warrior. Maybe those are okay games if you learn how to play them, but on first impression I hate both of them and haven't really gone back. Jinmu Denshou (PCE) also is pretty horrendous.)

Keith Courage · 09/08/2015, 04:44 AM

Bloody Wolf or Blazing Lazers would have been great pack-in games.

Ninja spirit is just way too awesome to be just thrown in with the system for free.

esteban · 09/09/2015, 06:57 PM

Quote from: Keith Courage on 09/08/2015, 04:44 AMBloody Wolf or Blazing Lazers would have been great pack-in games.

Ninja spirit is just way too awesome to be just thrown in with the system for free.

Blazing Lazers could have been an early pack-in, but Bloody Wolf and Ninja Spirit were released later (of course, they could have been pack-ins...just later in TG-16's lifespan).

A Black Falcon · 09/10/2015, 02:29 AM

Blazing Lazers is one of the system's best games and would be a fantastic packin, yeah, but it wasn't one of the first games out... though it was a July '89 release in japan, so maybe a launch release could have been possible? It'd be close, though.

Anyway, what the TG16 needed the most was a Christmas '88 US release (with actual marketing) and a European release within a year or two, so Blazing Lazers is not ideal because it wasn't out yet in '88. :p (Legendary Axe and Keith Courage are both '88 releases in Japan. R-Type as well, but only the two-part Japanese release and not the combined US one; that larger cart size probably wouldn't be great as a packin anyway even if an earlier release was possible, it would release costs and Legendary Axe is probably better for the mass market since it's a sidescroller.

But yeah, if you're sticking with an '89 release, Blazing Lazers almost certainly is the best game the system had that year, in my opinion at least, so it'd be a fantastic packin.

dallaspattern · 09/16/2015, 09:31 AM

Esteban, nailed 'er bud.

Throw a jar of Marmite in there for an extra happy kid

Damon Plus · 09/17/2015, 03:41 AM

Blazing Lazers, R-Type woul've been excellent choices. Great graphics, sounds, and shooters were still more or less popular at the time. As for R-Type specifically, it was the best looking port and was a popular game with wide appeal. It doesn't matter that it was difficult, back then no one cared, you just played whatever you had as much as humanly possible!