PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)

[PCEngineFX]

So my long-time friend pinged me on Skype a few weeks ago and said "hey, let's make some PC Engine music!"  So we did:

.pce version download is HERE.

I'm also working on a PC app (seen below) where you will be able to preview dozens (if not hundreds) of combinations of waveforms & envelopes.  Screenshot of WIP app below:



Our goal is to help spread the word about Squirrel, at the same time make it even easier for people to get into making MML music - more to come!

[esteban]

Splendid

Also, image link is broken

[touko]

Excellent, it should help some guys like me .
Thanks ..

Mooz on necstasy forum is finishing his deflemask vgm to pce converter ,it allow to convert deflemask vgm musics for pce which are too big, into native pce format .

[PCEngineFX]

Image fixed!

[Arkhan Asylum]

Well, this is a cute surprise!

VIVA LA SQUIRREL!

[Dicer]

Do you take requests?

[_Paul]

Any chance of a .pce download?

[Windcharger]

Hello everyone!  I'm glad everyone seems to be enjoying my rendition of Team.   

I would say that a .pce release is likely in the not too distant future, and it will be hosted on pcengine-fx.com, so stay tuned.   

Also, unfortunately I'm not taking requests at this time as I barely have any time at all currently.  (Well, that and I'm still learning how to better use Squirrel 3.0 <coughdrumscough> to maximize the PCE's audio capabilities.)  In the future though, perhaps...   

[PCEngineFX]

Windcharger is for sure ahead of me in making a song, but I too am still trying to get a full song done (so far trying out a LoT song).  Not sure what I'll do next....was thinking some Streets of Rage hehe....

[Dicer]

Windcharger is for sure ahead of me in making a song, but I too am still trying to get a full song done (so far trying out a LoT song).  Not sure what I'll do next....was thinking some Streets of Rage hehe....

Would love to hear this pumping outta my PCE

[Windcharger]

Oh wow, I forgot this existed!  Been years since I had heard it...

That would actually be pretty cool.  At least in the mean time we have this 

Bio Metal (American) -19- Dark Clouds (snes/sfc):
Alt:

wayback://youtube.com/watch?v=TCSgMg7hQGM

[Dicer]

Oh wow, I forgot this existed!  Been years since I had heard it...

That would actually be pretty cool.  At least in the mean time we have this   

Bio Metal (American) -19- Dark Clouds (snes/sfc)

How in the FUCK did that pass under my radar this entire time?

[Windcharger]

How in the FUCK did that pass under my radar this entire time?

Probably because the Super Famicom version of this game has a completely different OST, and the USA Activision ROM is a lot less common.  It's actually an interesting game (I rather like the "G.A.M." weapon system mechanic) that also unfortunately wastes some of its potential.  I remember picking this one up back in the day, and have been quite pleased with it ever since being one of the somewhat few SNES shooters... and I gotta have my shooters.   

I think I really would like to hear the PCE's take on this though.   

[Dicer]

How in the FUCK did that pass under my radar this entire time?

Probably because the Super Famicom version of this game has a completely different OST, and the USA Activision ROM is a lot less common.  It's actually an interesting game (I rather like the "G.A.M." weapon system mechanic) that also unfortunately wastes some of its potential.  I remember picking this one up back in the day, and have been quite pleased with it ever since being one of the somewhat few SNES shooters... and I gotta have my shooters.   

I think I really would like to hear the PCE's take on this though.   

Maybe I will get my request after all, woo...

[BigusSchmuck]

Rick Roll on the PCE? No way...

[Ninja Spirit]

All these years I still want the PCE Salamander sound engine! Still unsuccessful at finding it.

[Windcharger]

Wow, that version of An Empty Tome is pretty awesome!  Definitely has the Salamander sampled drums going on.  The rest of the channels shouldn't be terribly difficult to mimic by sounding them out though.  Now if only I could figure out samples in Squirrel...   

My next project is actually game related, and is well underway!   

[PCEngineFX]

Presenting the .pce of Windcharger's Lorde "Team" MML composition.  Enjoy.

[PCEngineFX]

Presenting the 2nd TG-16/PCE Arrangement from Windcharger!

"Cyclical Rampage" (Yo-yo Man level music) from Mega Man Unlimited
MML composition by Jeremiah Kenworthy
Converted to the PC Engine via Squirrel

Music Video:

[esteban]

Presenting the 2nd TG-16/PCE Arrangement from Windcharger!

"Cyclical Rampage" (Yo-yo Man level music) from Mega Man Unlimited
MML composition by Jeremiah Kenworthy
Converted to the PC Engine

Music Video:

Das Gud.

[Windcharger]

Das Gud.

Thank you kindly!   

I'm actually already at work on the next one...  Also a game cover...  Perhaps something very familiar...?   

[esteban]

Thank you kindly!   

I'm actually already at work on the next one...  Also a game cover...  Perhaps something very familiar...?

I know you are creating a Congo Bongo remix, and I love you for it:

_{► /miscellaneous/Congo_Bongo_(Twin_bong_mix).mp3}

[Gredler]

Image fixed!

I still don't see an image it works at home, must be a work comp block

I'm also working on a PC app (seen below) where you will be able to preview dozens (if not hundreds) of combinations of waveforms & envelopes.  Screenshot of WIP app below:



Our goal is to help spread the word about Squirrel, at the same time make it even easier for people to get into making MML music - more to come!

The guy who I am trying to help me make some music keeps complaining that he has a hard time knowing what instruments will sound like, and I told him I'd look for something exactly like this and if I can't find it I'll look into making one. I invisioned a ROM that controlled in a way that allowed you to change sound properties and then press a button to play them.

Maybe up/down changed octave, left right changed note, and then select cycles through the envelopes, and start cycles through the pitches, then II plays the sound, and I plays it on loop or for a set(able) duration. The currently selected sound will be displayed so the user knows what mml code sounds like what.

[elmer]

Have you seen this ...


https://www.deflemask.com/forum/show-off-your-work/4500-wavetables-ripped-from-pc-engine-games-pack/

http://www.delek.com.ar/forum/deflemask/pc-engine-instruments-and-wavetables-pack!!/

[Gredler]

Have you seen this ...
http://www.delek.com.ar/forum/deflemask/pc-engine-instruments-and-wavetables-pack!!/

I have not, thank you so much!! I have terrible Google-fu apparently, but thank you for providing something new to investigate! As always elmer, you are the man!

I signed up for the forums and jumped in the chat, thanks elmer!

They are super cool over there, and I was able to get an answer to our question on the chat there,

gredler [28|Jan 09:44 PM]:   I actually signed up because I had some questions about using this tool to generate music for a PCE homebrew we are working on
gredler [29|Jan 12:00 AM]:   I am wondering if DefleMask can export to MML - or if there's a way to use the music in the HuC development environment
Delek [29|Jan 12:01 AM]:   No, you could process the .vgm file (register writes dump)
gredler [29|Jan 12:03 AM]:   "process the .vgm" - I am the pixel artist trying to help the muscician, so that is greek to me
Delek [29|Jan 12:05 AM]:   The musician wouldn't understand neither , tell what I said to the programmer.
gredler [29|Jan 12:05 AM]:   Alright, will do ahahah
gredler [29|Jan 12:06 AM]:   Basically my friend uses renoise to make tunes, and someone on the pcefx forum pointed me here when I posted that we were having issues using renoise
gredler [29|Jan 12:06 AM]:   because whatever we make in renoise is very difficult to get into huc
Delek [29|Jan 12:09 AM]:   The thing is that I don't know what HuC development environment is, but you should be fine by writing a simple routine to playback the .vgm files that the tracker could export.
gredler [29|Jan 12:11 AM]:   is that what the "rom builder" does?
gredler [29|Jan 12:11 AM]:   so we would just add similar code to our game that the rom builder is using
Delek [29|Jan 12:11 AM]:   That's exactly what the rom builder is doing.
gredler [29|Jan 12:12 AM]:   makes sense
gredler [29|Jan 12:13 AM]:   well this has been bad ass educational, and I will download this when I get home and see if I can make rhyme and reason out of it
gredler [29|Jan 12:13 AM]:   and encourage my musician friend to do the same
gredler [29|Jan 12:13 AM]:   thanks again for the rad site, and tools!
Delek [29|Jan 12:13 AM]:   You're welcome, please remember to get the v11.1 pre-release, it is way better than v11.0
gredler [29|Jan 12:15 AM]:   bad ass, will do

I will poke around in deflemask, and ask DK, but this might not work for us :/ Squirrel and HuC seem to be inseparable hahah

I need to figure out a way for my friend to get a proper midi out of renoise so he can process it into mml to pair with squirrel.

Cabbage had a good idea in the DoxPhile chat today, which I am going to suggest to my friend:
(18:14:57) gredler: cabbage - is there a easy way to know what each note and variant of that (octave, pitch, envelope) sound like?
(18:14:59) cabbage: gredler having trouble with squirrel?
(18:15:02) gredler: yeah
(18:16:59) cabbage: the way i do it is convert each channel one at a time, mute all the other existing channels, and tweak the instrument/envelope until that channel sounds good (enough)

[elmer]

Nice work on the investigation!

Delek [29|Jan 12:01 AM]:   No, you could process the .vgm file (register writes dump)
Delek [29|Jan 12:09 AM]:   The thing is that I don't know what HuC development environment is, but you should be fine by writing a simple routine to playback the .vgm files that the tracker could export.
gredler [29|Jan 12:11 AM]:   is that what the "rom builder" does?
Delek [29|Jan 12:11 AM]:   That's exactly what the rom builder is doing.

I wondered how Delek was doing deflemask's the "ROM Builder" function for the PCE.

That approach makes a lot of sense for quickly providing "ROM Builder" capability for all the platforms that deflemask supports, but it is horribly wasteful of memory in terms of actually using deflemask for a real game.

Mooz's work on a playback library for deflemask is the best approach ... but I don't know how long that's going to take.

IMHO ... you're going to end up using Squirrel.

I was only pointing out the instruments as a source, and as a way to actual preview them.

[Gredler]

That approach makes a lot of sense for quickly providing "ROM Builder" capability for all the platforms that deflemask supports, but it is horribly wasteful of memory in terms of actually using deflemask for a real game.

Mooz's work on a playback library for deflemask is the best approach ... but I don't know how long that's going to take.

That's not surprising to hear, but I really appreciate the feedback as I was considering asking my friend to learn deflemask and then we just use the output for that to make the music and sfx.

IMHO ... you're going to end up using Squirrel.

I agree and think squirrel unavoidable if my friend does the music as he only really knows renoise, and needs to use something with midi input to make the music with his keyboard. He really wants to write the song using keyboard, then convert the midi he exports to mml, and then use squirrel - I don't think he wants to try to learn deflemask.

I was only pointing out the instruments as a source, and as a way to actual preview them.

That completely flew over my head, and I think that makes sense; use the chip 32 VST to create an instrument while using deflemask as a point of reference for what the sound will be like in squirrel. I also referred him to this video, as the instruments here match the documentation's descriptions. He should be able to listen to this video, pick the instrument # and define that in the  channel definition while assymbling the mml - and while defining his chip 32 instrument.

Thanks for all of the help, this educates me enough to where I can make some tests and then train my friend on them

The current hurdle for the musician right now is getting the drum sounds to work correctly.

I started poking around and found a few good resources, and I wonder if these are viable?

HuSIC - a mml music compiler for PCE? I haven not looked into this at all yet, but sounds promissing and the people over at MML share suggest it.
http://battleofthebits.org/lyceum/View/HuSIC/

This link also popped up in my searches for help: http://chipmusic.org/forums/topic/790/pc-engineturbografx16-music-for-beginners/

from the thread about HuSIC and that tutorial: "ignore this tutorial, more easy ways to write pc engine music have arrived since i wrote this. use deflemask"


LOL


Squirrel it is, can't be helped


But right now I am just trying to figure out how to get percussion sounds in squerrel. Researching what "proper enveloping" means for the channel 5 and 6 @m1 instruments

[spenoza]

Wait, didn't Chris Covell or Arhkan or someone write a utility to create waveforms and envelopes and then play them to see how they sound? I can't remember where around here it is, but I know it existed. Could help figure out just what you want each instrument to be.

Yeah, here it is:

https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=11401.msg220803#msg220803

[Gredler]

Wait, didn't Chris Covell or someone write a utility to create waveforms and envelopes and then play them to see how they sound? I can't remember where around here it is, but I know it existed. Could help figure out just what you want each instrument to be.

Yeah, here it is:

pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?msg=220803

Thank you SO much, and thanks to the illustrious Chris for hooking us up once again!

[Arkhan Asylum]

Also

I made these goony videos to explain stuff.

[Windcharger]

SONG #3

Ok, ok...  It has been a while.  I managed to get pretty busy for a while there, but I am now at my new place.  So, this means more new TG16/PCE music!     My 3rd song listed below is one that I have been sitting on for over a year at ~90% completion, so I finally had to get this out there.  You can also look forward to some new songs popping up in the pretty near future as I have a number of projects currently under way...

[esteban]

SONG #3

Ok, ok...  It has been a while.  I managed to get pretty busy for a while there, but I am now at my new place.  So, this means more new TG16/PCE music!     My 3rd song listed below is one that I have been sitting on for over a year at ~90% completion, so I finally had to get this out there.  You can also look forward to some new songs popping up in the pretty near future as I have a number of projects currently under way...

Magnificent

MOAR.

Sorry.

Insatiable appetite.

[Windcharger]

Magnificent

MOAR.

Sorry.

Insatiable appetite.

Why thank you kindly!  ...and don't worry, more is on the way!   

[Nazi NecroPhile]

Yes, very nice.  This is probably a dumb question, but would the game actually run fine with such a tune playing, or is it using up too many resources (either CPU speed or no sound channels left for sound effects)?  Either way, it sounds sexy.

[Windcharger]

Yes, very nice.  This is probably a dumb question, but would the game actually run fine with such a tune playing, or is it using up too many resources (either CPU speed or no sound channels left for sound effects)?  Either way, it sounds sexy.

Thank you...   

Regarding sound channels for sound effects, this song is using all 6 sound channels simultaneously, however it wouldn't be difficult at all to have an effect channel dynamically cut over one of the music channels that wouldn't be noticeably missed (like the 2nd 'stereo' bass channel or the "string like" harmony in the background) while a sound effect was playing.  Granted the MML isn't currently ready for that as you would typically want sound effects on channels 5 & 6 for more percussive freedom, but that could also be accommodated easily enough with just a little tweaking.  Of course there's always the (7th?) ADPCM channel on CD hardware for SFX.   lol

On the CPU resource front, I wouldn't think it would be a problem at all.  I'd be surprised if it was up to 30%, but I would have to hand that question over to Arkhan as that is just my speculation.  After all, these are native tones that the Hu6280 can produce and not 'real' samples with most of the overhead probably going to the playback driver.  It also didn't seem to be an issue with Atlantean (which I really need to order).   

[elmer]

Ok, ok...  It has been a while.  I managed to get pretty busy for a while there, but I am now at my new place.  So, this means more new TG16/PCE music!

Cool stuff! 

[Windcharger]

Ok, ok...  It has been a while.  I managed to get pretty busy for a while there, but I am now at my new place.  So, this means more new TG16/PCE music!

Cool stuff! 

Thanks Elmer!   

[Arkhan Asylum]

Megaman 2 would run *perfectly* fine with this song running.

There's less happening on screen in Megaman 2 than there is in Atlantean, and it runs fine until there's too much shit on screen because of all the damn parallax...   

Though, MM2 also gets some slowdown at times, so, it should all be good. 



Also,  SFX would be no problem. 

I'm going to put this on the FBs for all the people to see.

[TurboXray]

No rom?

[Windcharger]

I'm going to put this on the FBs for all the people to see.

Awesome!  Thanks Arkhan, it's appreciated!   

[spenoza]

I like everything about this track except the percussion. I care not for the drum sound, but the rest of it is tits.

[Arkhan Asylum]

I like everything about this track except the percussion. I care not for the drum sound, but the rest of it is tits.

I think the drums are fine, but the problem is, they're not the Capcom drums, which aren't even drums lol.

Capcom's songs always had those like

"bweoooo booweoooo" percussion noises.    They had hi-hats, and those like, turbotoms or whatever you even want to call them lol.

You can do them on PCE.   I'm actually doing that for the kick drums I use, but the pitch is super low instead of super high, so you don't get much except a deep thwoomp.

[Windcharger]

No rom?

Yeppers, there will be a ROM.  Eventually we plan on having all of my songs downloadable from pcengine-fx.com.     Probably in the not too distant future too (i.e. early-ish next year).

[Windcharger]

I like everything about this track except the percussion. I care not for the drum sound, but the rest of it is tits.

Thank you!  ...and I agree.  The drums were the primary reason I was sitting on this one for so long (well, that and moving and busy with work and stuffs).  I do kinda like what I am using for the quick snare, but I'm also using the louder snare a bass drum, and... err...  yeah......   

[Windcharger]

I think the drums are fine, but the problem is, they're not the Capcom drums, which aren't even drums lol.

Capcom's songs always had those like

"bweoooo booweoooo" percussion noises.    They had hi-hats, and those like, turbotoms or whatever you even want to call them lol.

You can do them on PCE.   I'm actually doing that for the kick drums I use, but the pitch is super low instead of super high, so you don't get much except a deep thwoomp.

And thank you for finding those tonal based kicks!  (I think I used them to good effect in my rendition of Cyclical Rampage).  Unfortunately the kick wasn't really lending itself to my bass drum in Dr Wily's Castle because the song was too fast for it to have its full beat completely audible, and the tonal nature of it also got a little lost in the background.  I needed a quick/short and deep audible impact.  (Alas, bass has always been the PCE's audio Achilles' heal).  I do feel that I have a pretty good grasp of the drums (still working on it), but it takes time to find good drums with trial and error.

One thing I would like to grasp better however is how to change the pitch of the white noise component as most of what I am getting is rather dull/flat mid range white noise.  With a higher pitch white noise I think I could even reasonably replicate cymbals (sort-of).  I've been meaning to ask you some question about that actually...

BTW, for the Capcom percussion noises you mentioned above, are you referring to the triangle wave channel from the NES version?  I've found @13 to be a pretty descent triangle substitute at lower octaves.  I really need to start shaping the waves and using ADSR (everything I've done so far, minus some drums, has been default Squirrel) but at the moment I'm doing all of this in notepad on a netbook.  lol

[Gredler]

Are you not using the midi to mml conversion process for this? Super impressive stuff dude thanks for sharing and being in the community - a welcome and much needed addition!!

[Windcharger]

Are you not using the midi to mml conversion process for this? Super impressive stuff dude thanks for sharing and being in the community - a welcome and much needed addition!!

Thank you very much Gredler!   Very kind of you. 

If by "midi to mml conversion process" you mean looking at a midi score and typing out all of the mml manually one note at a time into notepad, then yes.   

But seriously, since I just moved and haven't setup all of my equipment yet I'm pretty much stuck with my netbook, notepad, and a cellphone that has a 1.5 octave piano roll (which sucks for chords) to tweak and find notes.  So yeah, not really encouraging anyone else to take this exact approach.  lol  But I've been doing it this way for a while now and haven't invested in anything like Fruity Loops yet, though I likely will in the future.

Fun fact: My current MIDI program came bundled with my NEC Ready 9022 Multi Media PC (the "Turbo" runs deep in me ) from 1995!  I'm using the Midisoft Recording Session v1.22 software (which is 16-bit software) for my MIDI needs atm.

[esteban]

Fun fact: My current MIDI program came bundled with my NEC Ready 9022 Multi Media PC (the "Turbo" runs deep in me ) from 1995!  I'm using the Midisoft Recording Session v1.22 software (which is 16-bit software) for my MIDI needs atm.

Ok, that makes everything even better.

[Gredler]

If by "midi to mml conversion process" you mean looking at a midi score and typing out all of the mml manually one note at a time into notepad, then yes.   

Ahhh thanks, the only usable result I've been able to muster has also been through notepad as well, which Arkhan Asylum insists is madness.

In his tutorials and suggested workflow he uses 3MLE to convert a midi to MML then you copy and paste the MML code from 3MLE to your squirrel code, and then compile that as a rom. I've yet to successfully complete this process, and have had to rely on creating the music in MML by hand.

If I am not mistaken, his intention is for the artist to make a song in a program and export it as a midi, convert that midi to mml, then put that mll into squirrel code for a useable result. My friends and I have failed miserably at this, and Cabbage is the only guy besides Arkhan Asylum who've I've heard success from.

I was hoping you had success and could give us more info, because what you have shown us is manicured and glorious, but it was not as simple as export>convert>compile from the sounds of it.

Fun fact: My current MIDI program came bundled with my NEC Ready 9022 Multi Media PC (the "Turbo" runs deep in me ) from 1995!  I'm using the Midisoft Recording Session v1.22 software (which is 16-bit software) for my MIDI needs atm.

All the more bad ass! Nice work, and dedication! I found my grandpa's NEC win 3.1.1 / dos 4.0 lappy in the garage not too long ago, maybe I should try to ressurect it to make my art on to be more true to the craft Nah, I'll stick to windows 10 and PhotoShop CC - I CANT GO BAAAAACK!

[Windcharger]

Fun fact: My current MIDI program came bundled with my NEC Ready 9022 Multi Media PC (the "Turbo" runs deep in me ) from 1995!  I'm using the Midisoft Recording Session v1.22 software (which is 16-bit software) for my MIDI needs atm.

Ok, that makes everything even better.

Doesn't it though?     lol  Oh boy...