GameGavel.com: Video Gaming Auciton site Alternative to eBay!

[Dragon Warrior Jasen]

So I started this over at DP as well, but want as wide an audience as possible!

So for the past few months I have been toying around with my new website: www.chaoticconsoles.com.

Originally, the idea was to have a all encompassing site that had a wiki, photo albums, forums, etc. Let's just say that its up, but I kind of lost interest in it because the DP site is pretty good for being a forum based site, and do we really need another gaming site for discussions? I am a member of only 3 and its a pain sometimes (too much acttivity, idiot moderators, or too little activity... not all of these apply to every site by the way.)

With eBay fees going up, crazy requirements for feedbacks etc, crazy selling prices, masses amounts of folks setting up shop selling everything... I have given some thought to purchasing some auction house software and installing it and setting up a Video Gaming Auction House... low fees, only low insertion fees (flat rate), etc.

I am curious what kind of feedback I can get about this idea from you all. For me, its a great project that I can do while I am stationed here in Italy and can keep my programming skills up/web building skills sharp.

What do you think?

[PCEngineHell]

If you do it make  a personal note to be watchful of half the major posters on the Neo forums. Rade,another member  there admits to shill bidding their ebay auctions.

[Dragon Warrior Jasen]

Yeah, I saw that. I am very open to ideas on the rule set and fees etc to charge.

I am not really wanting to become a millionare, nor do I expect to.... i would be just happy to break even and have a lot of folks use the site!

[OldRover]

The idea of doing an auction site has been on my mind for a couple of years now, but I've lacked the time to pull it off.

[PCEngineHell]

Rules and guide lines:

1. Fees. 75 cents for initial fee. No final value fee aka No double dipping.
2. Pics. Sellers find  away to get their own pics hosted.
3. Non paying bidders. A person should only be allowed to get 2 non-paying bidder strikes before their account becomes subject of being removed. The seller on the second non-paying transaction on up should have the final say,not the auction house. This way if there was special circumstances the seller can make  a judgment call and let the person stay but still leave feedback for the buyer.

If a non paying bidder can maintain 20 deals in a positive manner payment wise 1 non-paying strike should then be removed. This should happen for every 20 deals they can manage fine.

4. Non-shipping sellers. If a seller has 2 instanced of not shipping a item in a 9 month rolling period that should be immediate grounds for termination of their account.

Feedback wise:
1. If  a buyer doesn't pay,he cant leave feedback. There should be no mutual feedback withdrawals. He get s a automatic negative feedback.
2. If  a buyer left a valid feedback against a seller and the seller leaves seemingly retaliatory feedback it should be reviewed to make sure it is,by giving the seller  a chance to give  a explanation. If the explanation is not good enough/not a valid reason then the feedback they left should be removed.

Proof of shipping being required:
All items sold and paid for should require proof of shipping to be provided at all times. Delivery confirmation and insurance both,regardless of end item amount. The amount to cover this will be provided for in the shipping fee the buyer pays.


Layout.

Should have categories listed by gaming generations then with sub categories for each system.
We should also have  a category for current and vintage computers,parts and software,and arcade equipment,and video game memorabilia.


There should be  a main map at the front of the site for easy point and click to categories with out having to scroll through nonsense to get there.

All ideas here are trademarked and copyrighted by Time Bomb,do you have one?

[guyjin]

Feedback wise:
1. If  a buyer doesn't pay,he cant leave feedback. There should be no mutual feedback withdrawals. He get s a automatic negative feedback.
2. If  a buyer left a valid feedback against a seller and the seller leaves seemingly retaliatory feedback it should be reviewed to make sure it is,by giving the seller  a chance to give  a explanation. If the explanation is not good enough/not a valid reason then the feedback they left should be removed.

With the provisions you've already listed (2 strikes for nonpayment, can't leave feedback without payment) there really shouldn't be a reason for sellers to leave feedback on buyers. Buyers should be able to know if sellers have strikes (and how old), how many successful transactions have occurred, and how long they've been around; with that info, ratings for buyers really aren't necessary.

[Dragon Warrior Jasen]

This is where a longer amount of characters are required for feedback. Too many times I want to leave feedback in detail why I left a neutral or negitive and cant... not enough space!

[OldRover]

Yeah, there was never enough space on evilbay. I really had to cram in my feedback sometimes.

[Dragon Warrior Jasen]

I think that has valuable merit. Thanks for your insight. The only thing is the $.75 insert fee. It may be kind of high. I agree with the no double dipping rule though.

I have been thinking about what would be the best way to do it... one upfront fee or a small (~3%) Final Value Fee with no insertion fee. That way it doesnt hurt to list something up, if it doesnt sell it didnt cost you anything! Plus it helps out those who sell lower priced / lower final cost items. It would really suck to sell SMB for $1 to have had to pay .$75 to list it!

Another idea is a subscription of $10 per month to allow unlimited sales with no other fees! (Imagine 100 items sold, and all it cost was $10!).

Jasen

[OldRover]

You could experiment with all kinds of fee schedules. I kind of favor the percentage method personally, but others might disagree. A flat rate listing fee would be great if all the items were high-priced, but it would really hurt someone who sold items cheaply. I propose a 2.5% final value fee applied across the board (aka never changes regardless of the final value of the item; evilbay screwed with the percentage depending on the final value)

[MissaFX]

To get a site like this going you are going to have to have very low fees, at least for the first year to get people interested in it and to get people to be willing to take a risk selling something there.  However, too cheap and people will get really pissed if you ever raise it to a price that can sustain the website.  I would highly suggest having something like ebay stores if you can, I suggest a payment plan like:

-Store -

$2.50 setup fee, no monthly fee.  (the fee is mostly to keep people from making hundreds of accounts for whatever reason)
$1.00 listing fee for the first 5 items, once you have 5 items for sale, the listing fee vanishes, as long as you have at least 5 items for sale.
1% final value fee.

- Non-Store -
$0.50 listing fee for items which finish/bought out under $20.01
$1.00 listing fee for items $20.02 --> $100.01
$1.50 listing fee over $100.02
$2.00 listing fee over $300.01
1.5% final value fee.


While this is not a perfect plan, it would allow people have a store if they sell a lot of used games and it would encourage people to have more stuff for sale, which will increase the inventory of the whole auction system.  People who do not have a store could still sell loose carts though for 50 cents, which while it might be a high %, it's a perfectly reasonable amount of money to pay to list something.

I just don't know how you would draw enough people to the site without having a "special" for the first 3 months or something which would let people list stuff even cheaper, so that if nobody purchased their item, they wouldn't be out much.

[OldRover]

Btw DWJ, if you're dead serious about this, my company might be able to provide some financial backing for this project, provided there was a decent ROI.

[OldRover]

I have one suggestion for this kind of site, something I wanted to implement into my own site...anti-snipe measures. If someone bids in the last minutes of the auction, the auction time is automatically extended to give others a chance to bid again.

[guyjin]

I have one suggestion for this kind of site, something I wanted to implement into my own site...anti-snipe measures. If someone bids in the last minutes of the auction, the auction time is automatically extended to give others a chance to bid again.

I'm not sure that's a good idea. Someone could, theoretically, greif someone else by posting last minute bids on someone else's auctions without ever intending to pay, thereby preventing paying customers from getting the goods.

I think there should be anti-sniping measures too, but There should be a better way to go about it.

[nectarsis]

^ I have wished for that for years on Evilbay Rover....I hate losing by 10 cents to soem person that has nothing better to do than wait until the last second (oh the days of dial up).

[OldRover]

I'm not sure that's a good idea. Someone could, theoretically, greif someone else by posting last minute bids on someone else's auctions without ever intending to pay, thereby preventing paying customers from getting the goods.

Oh, that's easy...three day payment period, no exceptions. If payment isn't made or arranged for within three days, the highest bidder is then cut from the auction with one strike against them, and the auction goes to the second bidder. Of course, there will always be someone who tries to find a way to circumvent this or use it in a harmful way, but this has been a problem on Evilbay for years now and it's exploitation of the system.

[MissaFX]

^ I have wished for that for years on Evilbay Rover....I hate losing by 10 cents to soem person that has nothing better to do than wait until the last second (oh the days of dial up).

I do not understand this kind of thinking, if the guy who sniped you was willing to pay more for the item than you, how would more time help you?  You are not willing to pay what the sniper was in the first place.  No matter when the sniper bid, you would have been outbid.

[ParanoiaDragon]

But, atleast with me, I find that sometimes my highest bid, ....get's higher if I get outbid.  Sometimes, I just have a set limit of what I am willing to pay for it, but, when I get outbid, many times, I will rebid higher then I originally planned.

[MissaFX]

when I get outbid, many times, I will rebid higher then I originally planned.

I always determine the value of the item (to me) and then I bid that much.  If I get outbid I almost always pass on the auction since I can always get another for that price or lower.  Re-bidding is bad for your wallet

[nectarsis]

Very true..I know what you aresaying Missa.  At the same time..I'm talking about being outbid by small amounts...10/50 cents, 1 dollar, etc.

[Dragon Warrior Jasen]

Serious, I am dead serious. I have been researching quite a bit actually regarding software to use, ideas, TOS, etc. Im still in the planning stages and havent commited to anything quite yet. However, I am looking to start writing the idea/business model down on paper. Shoot me an email at jasenhicks@gmail.com

Jasen

[Nazi NecroPhile]

I like your plans for a game auction site, but I have one suggestion: don't allow clowns to insert auctions with ridiculous starting prices and no intention of selling (I'm looking at you, billmarioman).  Low insertion fees would just exacerbate the problem, and I don't know how to discourage it without raising the fees, thus damaging the honest sellers.  Maybe just add something to the rules and boot their ass if they keep trying to sell their $10,000 collections.

I have one suggestion for this kind of site, something I wanted to implement into my own site...anti-snipe measures. If someone bids in the last minutes of the auction, the auction time is automatically extended to give others a chance to bid again.

Doesn't yahoo auctions do something similar?  Damn fine idea, methinks.

Very true..I know what you aresaying Missa.  At the same time..I'm talking about being outbid by small amounts...10/50 cents, 1 dollar, etc.

Just because you're outbid by a penny, doesn't mean that the sniper wasn't willing to outbid you by a $100.  Like Missa, I place a proxy bid for the highest amount that I'm willing to spend and move on.  If I win, great; if I don't, then it must've been worth more to the other bidder.

[Dragon Warrior Jasen]

I am getting a lot of good feedback here folks. Thanks a lot so far!

Ill keep everyone posted on the progress!

Please keep the ideas coming!

Jasen

[Kitsunexus]

The only problem with a gaming-exclusive auction site is that EVERYBODY will know a lot about gaming, making the rare stuff 10x more expensive...there's no more "I got lucky because this dude didn't even know what he had" kind of scenarios.

[Dragon Warrior Jasen]

Maybe not.... occasionally you will get the two collectors fighting over the rare game, but I think most are educated to know what something is really worth. That and with the seasons prices change, as well as supply on the site.

[nat]

The only problem with a gaming-exclusive auction site is that EVERYBODY will know a lot about gaming, making the rare stuff 10x more expensive...there's no more "I got lucky because this dude didn't even know what he had" kind of scenarios.

I think it would be more to the contrary. People will know the real value of stuff and in general prices will be lower all-around.

Sure, you'd eliminate the freak occurance that someone scores a legit copy of Sapphire for $25.99, but you'd also eliminate the much more common problem of douchebags listing copies of Samurai Ghost and Air Zonk loose carts with a BIN of $100.

[Kitsunexus]

The only problem with a gaming-exclusive auction site is that EVERYBODY will know a lot about gaming, making the rare stuff 10x more expensive...there's no more "I got lucky because this dude didn't even know what he had" kind of scenarios.

I think it would be more to the contrary. People will know the real value of stuff and in general prices will be lower all-around.

Sure, you'd eliminate the freak occurance that someone scores a legit copy of Sapphire for $25.99, but you'd also eliminate the much more common problem of douchebags listing copies of Samurai Ghost and Air Zonk loose carts with a BIN of $100.

Yeah, that's true. Never thought about it that way, 

[Dragon Warrior Jasen]

Thank you to everyone so far for the great discussion on this idea. Its encouraging to hear some positive feedback and good ideas. I wish everyone was more encouraging!

So far, I think i have found some software that I will use. Its COTS, but does have all the features I want for the site including a TRADE feature! The company has been very responsive to questions and very helpful. I hope they let me use a trial version to run on my local machine to see how much I like it!

I will be putting ideas together on how I am going to set up the site as far as rules, fees, etc based on everyones feedback.

Keep it coming!

Jasen

[OldRover]

Well, I think a lot of people in this thread have been burned on ebay before, so that probably accounts for some of it.

[Dragon Warrior Jasen]

Well, just now I got a great amount of encouragement from Digital Press owner Joe.

Originally Posted by digitalpress 
If people didn't do things because others said "it couldn't be done", we would never progress. In fact, I've said it many times before: it's better to try and fail than to wonder if you could have succeeded. Life is about overcoming the odds and learning from mistakes.

Go for it, brother. And count on me to help in any way I can.

Encouraging words! Thanks. With that being said... game on!

For the Graphic Folks out there.... here's a challenge:

Design the Logo for the new and improved CHAOTIC CONSOLES: Gaming Auction House!

Post up low res here in the forum, email me a copy of the full res version at jasenhicks@gmail.com

The winner will get something cool. Maybe cash, maybe a game, maybe something even better. Ill have to think of something really good to give away to the winner.

[PCEngineHell]

I think you can do it,if you really want to its not some impossible goal.Ill watch and wait.I am highly interested.

[OldRover]

Quite frankly, the name leaves much to be desired. Part of the reason ebay is so successful is that it's a recognizable brand name. You need to come up with a solid brand name if you want this idea to fly beyond the occasional "vg n00bz". My wife suggested "vbay" but I think she was messing around. If you'd like, I can inquire with some of my marketing colleagues for a decent name.

In all honesty though, the name is the least of your worries right now. Without at least a prototype of the site, you could call it "Big Chuck's Video Game Swag Party" and it'd be alright. But when the time comes, you need a good strong brand name.

[Dragon Warrior Jasen]

New name....

GameGavel.com/org/net

After a few ideas from others and questioning others not even in the hobby... most people got it on the first try as to what the site was for.

Jasen

[Ceti Alpha]

I have one suggestion for this kind of site, something I wanted to implement into my own site...anti-snipe measures. If someone bids in the last minutes of the auction, the auction time is automatically extended to give others a chance to bid again.

I agree, sniping is a pain in the butt, but isn't that what the maximum bid is for? If someone snipes more than my maximum bid then I'm not worried because I wasn't going to pay anymore than that anyway. Still annoying though.

[Kitsunexus]

Really, no snipers. Nobody likes snipers. Controversial politicians hate snipers, Counter-Strike players hate snipers, but most of all AUCTION-GOERS HATE SNIPERS.

The anti-sniping measure that ceti Rover talks about sounds good at first glance, but think about it. Non-sniping users also bid in the last minute. This could turn auctions into a never-ending bid war, with no snipers in site.

[Nazi NecroPhile]

Non-sniping users also bid in the last minute. This could turn auctions into a never-ending bid war, with no snipers in site.

At some point, the price would exceed all but the winning bidder's limit.  If I'm not mistaken, additional time (ten minutes or so) is added to Yahoo auctions and seems to work well.

[OldRover]

GameGavel? Well...it's a name, and at least you got the dotcom, but that's a pretty lame name and hard to really make into a brand. But it's certainly better than what you had before. No offense but naming doesn't seem to be your strong point.

Kitsu, that was my idea, ceti just forgot to use quote tags.

[Kitsunexus]

Kitsu, that was my idea, ceti just forgot to use quote tags.

My bad.

And GameGavel is kinda fruity, but it's a lot better than ChaoticConsoles because you KNOW what it is from the name.

[Ceti Alpha]

Kitsu, that was my idea, ceti just forgot to use quote tags. Smile

Crap! All those years in university avoiding plagiarism at all cost ruined by one post on Pcenginefx!! 

[OldRover]

 

[Dragon Warrior Jasen]

Its been a few days, so time to update on the progress.

So far, the quick sales of the ebay stuff brought in a couple hundred bucks to the project, and now I just have to finish selling the few extra castlevania games to get a bit more. Not 100% necessary, but a nice bit to add to the pot.

I have been working with 2 companies with their auction software. One is really expensive, the other is not so much. They both feature a lot of things that are essential, in my opinion, for the site. THe more expensive software company is going to let me install on my mac server to test it out locally before I commit and buy it. I like their efforts and willingness to let me try it out fully (install to :live: test).

I have received a lot of positive and negative feedback. The positive is encouraging, the negative, mostly, is why bother you cant compete with ebay. I have chosen to ignore the negativity, obviously, and truck forth with zeal. The niche market is there, and with the proper advertising it has the ability to take off. Promos will have to be done as well as some profit sharing/cost reduction/etc to get the initial following, but I anticipate a 1 year period to break even at the longest. (Cost of Software, Cost of Hosting, Domain Registration, etc.)

I am currently exchanging ideas with Joe of DP to determine the feasibility/cost/willingness to integrate the DP Rarity Guide into the site somehow. There are a few hurdles that we must overcome to make this happen, but I think we will be able to come to a reasonable agreement in the interest of making the site be amazing!

I have contacted Moby Games to get their inputs regarding their database as well, and unfortunately have not heard back. I will keep pushing until I get an answer, or at least find a resasonable alternative database of similar value.

Marketing, as I have given it thought over the past week with the few fleeting moments of calm in my life, will be a challenge. There are a lot of gaming sites with forums, etc that I would love to hit up and post the launch date of the site (which I am aiming for a 1 MAR 2008). I think that a new registration and only a couple of posts behind it may actually hinder my ability to advertise it because I do not want to appear as a scammer/spammer. That being said, I may need to entice the folks here to help advertise the new site.

Logo. I have gotten one submission, it is nice, but I just dont think it will work. I am really interested in seeing some graphics folks put something really neat together for GameGavel.com. I still havent decided what piece of my game room will be up for the prize, but I will determine that shortly.

I will be consolidating the list of recommendations for the site and will post them up this weekend in an easy to read bulletized and organized list for everyone to view.

I think that's it for now.... talk amongst yourselves, and discuss!

[OldRover]

I think you may be getting in over your head, honestly...you haven't mentioned anything regarding the business end of your plan. You need a very solid business plan for this, you need to establish a corporate identity, and you need to establish your brand name. These are things that take time and money. Furthermore, it seems as if this will mainly be run by you yourself...do you have this kind of time? You're going to eventually need at least a small staff. Also, what are your plans for a server? You're not going to be able to run a site like this from your desktop Mac or from a shared server, you're going to need a dedicated machine with plenty of RAM and a big hard drive, plus plenty of bandwidth and monthly transfer. Finally, the people who say "you can't compete with ebay" are right...you're not going to be able to go head to head with ebay. So, you need to come up with something that sets your site apart. A rarity guide is a good idea, but remember that the scammers are still going to hang out on ebay where they can gouge people left and right.

So, how do you get exposure for your site? You advertise for it. This again is going to cost you a lot of money. You're also going to want top priority in Google searches...again, money is needed here.

You've got some great ideas, but ideas alone aren't going to cut it. You're going to need some serious financial backing to pull it off. I hope you've got it somewhere, because without it, you're going to be stopped cold turkey in the middle of your process. This IS a business venture after all so you need to tackle it with a business frame of mind...and the capital to back it up.

[Dragon Warrior Jasen]

All good points, and all thought of. I am not willing to post up my entire business plan that I have been working on, or ready to share every intimate detail of the endevour for fear of another swooping in to steal it away.

[Dragon Warrior Jasen]

So I determined what the prize for the Winning Logo for GameGavel.com will be:

A complete boxed NES System, box is in really good condition, NES works very well, most of the inserts are there.

Value (with shipping) : $120

Thanks for participating!

[Dragon Warrior Jasen]

** UPDATES **

I am currently about 3/4 through with my initial draft of the Business Plan for GameGavel.com. My wife has been proof reading and providing a constant source of reasons to not start the business, but has helped in a positive manner when asked. She has been very good at helping keep me realistic about the business plan and how it could crash and burn (god forbid!). This weekend I have a 4 day weekend (thank you Admiral!) so I will be able to finish the first cut of the business plan, and write the TOS for the website incorporating many ideas that you all have given me, which I thank you very much. After the TOS is written, it will be sent to the lawyers for a review to ensure adequate saftey for everyone.

For fun, I am going to borrow my friends video camera and make a commercial on YouTube for the website. Just to keep me from being too serious, and heck it may be a good advertising tool. You never know, crazier things have happened!

Today I purchased the software required to run the website, and will be installing it locally for testing, setup, and trials before going live. I wont be running the site from my home because I don't have a server for it, nor do I want that kind of overhead initially. I have found a host that I feel confident can run the site and upgrade as demands require it to.

It looks like I have no interest in the logo contest for the website, so that will be outsourced to a graphic designer and the NES may be sold to help compensate the cost of that. I was hoping the contest would be a fun way to get folks interested and creative. I did this same idea with only a $50 gift certificate for the reef club I started in VA (www.tidewater-reefers.org) and it worked well. The fish logo is truely great!

I look forward to more comments and interest in the site. I will keep folks up-to-date on the status as it comes available. The business plan will be for internal use only, so I will not be releasing that, it is meant as a guide for me only to keep me on track over the next few years and beyond. That being said it will be a constant work in progress as the site grows and improves.

Thanks again!

[Dragon Warrior Jasen]

It's been a bit since the last update. So here it goes:

Business Plan is done.

Marketing ideas are done. Major means of advertising is going to make use of Google Adwords, and advertising on the forums that I frequent. I have contacted ScrewAttack as well, but stuttering Craig hasn't gotten back to me yet. I am almost done with my goofy YouTube commercial... just need the logo finalized first.

1. Private Server, remote, up and running at full capacity.

2. Software installed, being tweaked.

3. PayPal, MoneyBookers, and Google Checkout support active.

4. NO INSERTION FEES, EVER for basic listings! Low fee upgrade options.

5. Low Final Value Fees.

6. SSL up for your protection, 256 Bit Encryption.

7.Hired a designer for the logo, and its currently going well. Have an initial design, but it is not quite there yet.

8. Terms of Service are rough cut, and will be getting polished over the next week. Will be delivered to a business lawyer for a review.

9. Will be setting up a Digital Press Rarity Guide integration system, so that rarity info is easily obtained from a trusted source.

Site goes active MARCH 1, 2008. All new users will automatically get a $2.50 credit. First 10 stores setup will get 50% off the cost of the store via an expiring voucher.

There a quite a few eager folks over at Digital Press ready to get this off the ground, and so am I!

[JoshTurboTrollX]

gamegavel.com is already in my favorites.  I will definately be checking this out!!!

[nectarsis]

^ Same here 

[Kitsunexus]

Dude holy shit, I thought this was going to be just a cool idea tossed around, I never thought it would get this far! Hats off to you sir, down with evilBay! 

[OldRover]

I didn't expect it to get very far either. These projects are usually just announced, garner a little fanfare, and then are forgotten about because the person behind it just wanted their 15 minutes of fame. I still hate the name with an undying passion (it's incredibly lame and very hard to brand) but hopefully this site will actually become something.