Gradius II

jlued686 · 08/12/2005, 10:32 AM

So how is this game on the PC Engine Duo? I just ordered it from Japan Game Stock, but have never played it before.

How does it compare to the other versions and other games in the series?

Thanks.

esteban · 08/12/2005, 07:45 PM

Gradius II SCD is one of my faves. Only fans of the series will really dig it, I reckon, because it's a tough game that is unforgiving at times (I choke on the last boss to this day-- but do you know how long it took me to get good enough to get to the last boss?). It's tough. But the the attention to detail and overall production value is quite high. You'll say to yourself, "Oh crap, too bad Konami didn't start developing / porting for the PCE sooner."

The Redbook audio soundtrack is nice, as well.

I own the Famicom Gradius II cart as well. I haven't invested much time in it, but it certainly is not the same as the SCD: bosses and levels have been changed. Regardless, from what I've played, the Famicom game is awesome and really deserves some love (I'm just too busy).

If you have the TG-CD console, do yourself a favor and boot Gradius II using the original system card. You'll get a wonderful error message! Further evidence of how much love and attention to detail went into this release.

I haven't played much of the arcade Gradius II, but from what I've seen, the SCD seems faithful. Even if it isn't faithful, though, the SCD is just a damn fine game.

disclaimer -- I haven't played any gradius game that was released beyond the early 90's... just so you know my frame of reference.

Keranu · 08/12/2005, 09:41 PM

From what I've read (never played this game, buy dying to), the PCE SCD is the best version around; better than all the other home ports and even better than the arcade. This is because the game is supposed to have cool redone CD tracks and extra levels that weren't featured in any versions. I almost bought this game last month, shoulda got it...

akamichi · 08/12/2005, 10:36 PM

Gradius II is one of my most favorite shooters on PCE. It's a very good port of the arcade version. I'd even say that it may be one of the best arcade conversions that the PCE as ever had.

I love the music and it seems to have been recorded straight from the arcade board. No remixes. All the miscellanous voice samples are also in the game too. Konami really did a good job with this game.

There's one extra stage in this version which is a nice extra. If I'm not mistaken, you can choose to turn it off if you want. There's also a hidden mode called AC.Mode (no mystery there) which disables the pause button and turns off the extra stage for the perfect arcade feeling. I have yet to beat the game with this setting. I think the difficultly might be harder than non AC.Mode even though it's selectable.

Although Konami didn't release that many PCE games, I wished they would have done Gradius III and like a ton of their other games. I would have like to seen a SCD version of Parodius and Salamander too.

Keranu · 08/13/2005, 02:27 AM

I've heard from Michael here on the boards that the PCE version of Salamander has less levels than the NES version? Does the PCE version of Salamander have less levels than the original arcade version or does the NES version just have more levels? Overall I prefer the NES version over the arcade and PCE versions. The NES is such a wonderful console because usually when it gets a port of the game, it ends up actually being better than the others!

ParanoiaDragon · 08/15/2005, 08:53 PM

I personally haven't been able to get very far in Salamander on the PCE, if I could find a 30 ship code, like in Life Force, that'd be a different story. I think I've made it to maybe the 3rd level in Salamander. In all honesty, Salamander could've been better on the Turbo. I think it's only a 2 meg card, they could've bumped it up to whatever they needed, & I think it would've been near arcade perfect, with the paralax, music, & all. With the exception maybe of flicker that might've been added with paralax in there, I would assume that could potentially give it some flicker &/or slowdown, since it's means adding extra tiles or sprites, depending on what technique they would decide to use. Atleast....I think it means adding, but I'm no programmer, so....take what I said with a grain of salt.

Shompola · 08/16/2005, 07:28 AM

Haven't played PCE Salamander that much, but it is definitely different than the NES version, and the music while the same is slightly rearranged if I remember it correctly and some sound effects were either added onto the NES version or missing in the PCE version compared to arcade version as the PCE one is definitely missing some compared to NES version. I think it is well worth gettting it though even if you have the NES version. Wich version is the closest to the arcade version I do not know, haven't played the arcade one.

TurboHuC6280 · 08/16/2005, 09:58 PM

It probably doesn't help that when you die, you start off at the begining of the sector instead of appearing where you left off. However, it is possible to get quite far after a lot of play. It's also very rewarding to do so.

Still, I was able to get much further on Life-Force with limited lives, and it was (overall) more enjoyable in many respects. There was just something about the way that game was designed. The NES game sounded great as well. Konami was always good at making those NES games sound superb. Heck... They've always made great music for all of their games. I think that several of their games (like the US release of Castlevania) included an additional sound chip inside the cart, which produced much beefier tunes. I wonder if Life Force was one such game as well?

Keranu · 08/16/2005, 10:22 PM

I didn't even know Ultra/Konami did that back then. Thanks for the info!

esteban · 08/17/2005, 04:39 AM

Quote from: zborgerdI think that several of their games (like the US release of Castlevania) included an additional sound chip inside the cart, which produced much beefier tunes. I wonder if Life Force was one such game as well?

See, now I am thinking that it was the other way around (the Japanese got the the special sound, which was stripped from the NES version). Ahhhh, brain no longer functions.

TurboHuC6280 · 08/17/2005, 10:22 AM

Quote from: stevek666
Quote from: zborgerdI think that several of their games (like the US release of Castlevania) included an additional sound chip inside the cart, which produced much beefier tunes. I wonder if Life Force was one such game as well?
See, now I am thinking that it was the other way around (the Japanese got the the special sound, which was stripped from the NES version). Ahhhh, brain no longer functions.

Well, that is the case for Castlevania 3. It was the opposite for Castlevania 2 though. I'm not sure why they did it one way and not the other. I think that the original Castlevania 2 was for the Famicom Disk system, and the US release gained the added audio channel. The Japanese cart release of Castlevania 3, however, gained a Konami sound chip (The VRC6 or something).

esteban · 08/17/2005, 12:44 PM

Quote from: zborgerd
Quote from: stevek666
Quote from: zborgerdI think that several of their games (like the US release of Castlevania) included an additional sound chip inside the cart, which produced much beefier tunes. I wonder if Life Force was one such game as well?
See, now I am thinking that it was the other way around (the Japanese got the the special sound, which was stripped from the NES version). Ahhhh, brain no longer functions.

Well, that is the case for Castlevania 3. It was the opposite for Castlevania 2 though. I'm not sure why they did it one way and not the other. I think that the original Castlevania 2 was for the Famicom Disk system, and the US release gained the added audio channel. The Japanese cart release of Castlevania 3, however, gained a Konami sound chip (The VRC6 or something).

Well, that explains it

. Now, I also remember something about a Nintendo game having gained / lost some sound when going from JP to NA (probably another Famicom Disk game... like Zelda or Metroid or something).

TR0N · 10/24/2005, 11:38 PM

I've played Gradius II Gofer befor on my copy of Gradius Deluxe pack for my Saturn.

My question is it worth having for the, PCE since it's supose to have a bonus level?

ParanoiaDragon · 10/25/2005, 12:58 AM

Does it have a bonus level? I can't remember. I can't remember how far I've gotten in the game, not very far, I can assure you. If you have the money, by all means pick it up. It doesn't require the high price it used to, so it's quite a bit cheaper these days.

TR0N · 10/25/2005, 07:49 PM

Quote from: ParanoiaDragonDoes it have a bonus level? I can't remember. I can't remember how far I've gotten in the game, not very far, I can assure you. If you have the money, by all means pick it up. It doesn't require the high price it used to, so it's quite a bit cheaper these days.

The review here mention it does that's why i'm asking.

http://www.geocities.com/pcecdrom/reviews/gr2.htm

ParanoiaDragon · 10/25/2005, 09:13 PM

Interesting. I know the music is ripped straight from the original source. I guess that means they added a new song?

Kiken · 11/05/2005, 01:11 PM

Quote from: KeranuI've heard from Michael here on the boards that the PCE version of Salamander has less levels than the NES version? Does the PCE version of Salamander have less levels than the original arcade version or does the NES version just have more levels? Overall I prefer the NES version over the arcade and PCE versions. The NES is such a wonderful console because usually when it gets a port of the game, it ends up actually being better than the others!

The Famicon/NES version of Salamander/Life Force has 6 stages. The PC-Engine Hu-Card of Salamander also has 6 stages.

However, the FC/NES game has an altered level order, plus two of the arcade-original stages (levels 2 and 5, both of the asteroid levels) were removed and replaced with new ones (the side-scrolling Egyptian level and the vertically scrolling inner-body level). Then there's the whole change of the power-up system from the predetermined power-ups of the arcade to the Gradius-esque "purchase your power-ups" system. One final note, in the FC version of Salamander you can activate up to 3 Options; in the NES version, you can only activate 2.

The PC-Engine Hu-Card of Salamander is very close to the original arcade PCB (which I have played) as well as Salamander on the Salamander Deluxe Pack Plus for PlayStation and Saturn (obviously since it's the arcade game). The primary difference is that the PC-Engine version doesn't have instant-respawn in single player (it's still in 2-player though) and you can not hit a boss' baricades or core unit until they become "active" (this removes much of the instant Option-Raping that was possible in the arcade version).

It should be noted though that I find the check-point system of play preferable in Salamander because of it's power-up system. Once you respawn, you normally have a chance to collect a Speed-Up, Missiles (at least level 1 missiles) and an Option or two. This combined with the drop in rank due to power-down/death results in a more balanced game (it's much easier to recover).

I did make a video of myself playing through the first loop of Beginner in a single credit (although it's not the greatest replay as I died twice, once at the Stage 4 boss and once half-way through Stage 6) some time back, but it was more intended to show a friend the game. More recently I've been working on playing through Expert in a single life. Once I nail that, I'll be sure to post a link to the video here.

The farthest I've managed to get in a single credit in the Hu-Card total is:
Beginner Loop 3 Stage 1
Expert Loop 2 Stage 5

jlued686 · 11/05/2005, 02:55 PM

Have you guys heard that they're releasing a Gradius compilation for the PSP in February in Japan? It includes Gradius 1, 2, 3, 4, and Gaiden. Cool, eh?

Kiken · 11/05/2005, 05:56 PM

Quote from: jlued686Have you guys heard that they're releasing a Gradius compilation for the PSP in February in Japan? It includes Gradius 1, 2, 3, 4, and Gaiden. Cool, eh?

Yes. Gradius and Gradius II will include the "wide screen" option from the PlayStation/Saturn Gradius Deluxe Pack. The disc will also contain music from many of the games and remastered cinemas from Gradius Deluxe Pack, Gradius III & IV, and Gradius Gaiden.

esteban · 11/05/2005, 06:36 PM

Quote from: Kiken
Quote from: KeranuI've heard from Michael here on the boards that the PCE version of Salamander has less levels than the NES version? Does the PCE version of Salamander have less levels than the original arcade version or does the NES version just have more levels? Overall I prefer the NES version over the arcade and PCE versions. The NES is such a wonderful console because usually when it gets a port of the game, it ends up actually being better than the others!

The Famicon/NES version of Salamander/Life Force has 6 stages. The PC-Engine Hu-Card of Salamander also has 6 stages.

However, the FC/NES game has an altered level order, plus two of the arcade-original stages (levels 2 and 5, both of the asteroid levels) were removed and replaced with new ones (the side-scrolling Egyptian level and the vertically scrolling inner-body level). Then there's the whole change of the power-up system from the predetermined power-ups of the arcade to the Gradius-esque "purchase your power-ups" system. One final note, in the FC version of Salamander you can activate up to 3 Options; in the NES version, you can only activate 2.

The PC-Engine Hu-Card of Salamander is very close to the original arcade PCB (which I have played) as well as Salamander on the Salamander Deluxe Pack Plus for PlayStation and Saturn (obviously since it's the arcade game). The primary difference is that the PC-Engine version doesn't have instant-respawn in single player (it's still in 2-player though) and you can not hit a boss' baricades or core unit until they become "active" (this removes much of the instant Option-Raping that was possible in the arcade version).

It should be noted though that I find the check-point system of play preferable in Salamander because of it's power-up system. Once you respawn, you normally have a chance to collect a Speed-Up, Missiles (at least level 1 missiles) and an Option or two. This combined with the drop in rank due to power-down/death results in a more balanced game (it's much easier to recover).

I did make a video of myself playing through the first loop of Beginner in a single credit (although it's not the greatest replay as I died twice, once at the Stage 4 boss and once half-way through Stage 6) some time back, but it was more intended to show a friend the game. More recently I've been working on playing through Expert in a single life. Once I nail that, I'll be sure to post a link to the video here.

The farthest I've managed to get in a single credit in the Hu-Card total is:
Beginner Loop 3 Stage 1
Expert Loop 2 Stage 5

rock on, thank you for pointing out the distinctions between the different versions. Lots of folks here appreciate stuff like this

Keranu · 11/06/2005, 10:05 PM

Thanks for the info; detailed and structured!

Digi.k · 03/30/2006, 10:11 AM

The pc engine's port of Salamander is very hard... probably to the point of frustration even on level one and that is much harder than the arcade >__< ... I'd wish they kepted the sampled voices in there as well as the continued spawn point when you die.. Still.. Salamander has some great music which I think is classic Konami. Salamander can get very intense and I feel my blood boil when I die... Its more on both luck and skill and you definitely need to use the autofire on this..

I don't remember much about the PC Engine's Gradius II but I do remember it having a new opening intro as well as this nifty sticker sheet which I've still kepted all these years ^___^.

/gradiusII.jpg

esteban · 03/30/2006, 12:32 PM

Crap, I never got stickers with my copy of Gradius II.

rolins · 03/30/2006, 02:32 PM

Cool. I want that image of the b/w Vic Viper on the back of my t-shirt or my book bag. That would look awesome.

pixeljunkie · 03/30/2006, 03:33 PM

its a tough-ass game. But as mentioned, great production value. Very glad I own this one

Ninja Spirit · 03/30/2006, 07:45 PM

I was kinda disappointed the PC Engine version didn't have this tune:
http://media.putfile.com/Lifeforce-5-45

And yeah I found this version to be tough because of the fast scrolling.

I missed out on the arcade game so I'm not sure if it was in that version or not.

rolins · 03/30/2006, 10:14 PM

One bit that I hate about all salamander games is having to go thru the wall of meat. An area in the first stage requires you to create a path thru them by shooting at it, and you have to escape before the wall of meat consumes you. When I first played salamander (pce) the meat gobbled me up right before reaching the first guardian.

Keranu · 03/30/2006, 11:45 PM

I kind of dig the meat gobbling myself

.

Digi.k · 03/31/2006, 08:39 AM

Quote from: rolinsOne bit that I hate about all salamander games is having to go thru the wall of meat. An area in the first stage requires you to create a path thru them by shooting at it, and you have to escape before the wall of meat consumes you. When I first played salamander (pce) the meat gobbled me up right before reaching the first guardian.

Ya!

That bit is much harder than the arcade... Even the arcade version is hard and you have to pound those fire buttons but still on the PCE version I can only do it with the autofire on

You should try salamander on MAME so you be able to make a clear comparison. I'm currently playing the PCE version on Magic Engine and I'm started to warm to it even though I was originally dissappointed with this back in 1991/92 ?.. so I think im gonna hunt down the HUcard later this year.. but it does make my blood boil.. probably one of THE hardest and intense shooters on the PCE..

And that NES soundtrack is awesome ^__^

lkermel · 04/05/2006, 07:56 PM

Gradius II for the PC Engine rocks ! And yes, it has an extra 6th stage !

For anyone interested to see the whole game (stop reading now if you do not want it spoiled), I have here a complete visit of it with more than 300 screen shots, from beginning to end:

Mr Spoiler : GRADIUS 2

esteban · 04/05/2006, 08:32 PM

Quote from: lkermelGradius II for the PC Engine rocks ! And yes, it has an extra 6th stage !

For anyone interested to see the whole game (stop reading now if you do not want it spoiled), I have here a complete visit of it with more than 300 screen shots, from beginning to end:

Mr Spoiler : GRADIUS 2

I haven't looked at your site, but the last boss was soooooooooooo friggin' tough for me. I can't tell you how many times (years?) it took for me to finally beat it.

lkermel · 04/05/2006, 10:39 PM

QuoteI haven't looked at your site, but the last boss was soooooooooooo friggin' tough for me. I can't tell you how many times (years?) it took for me to finally beat it.

I hope you are not talking about the brainy head which is, as usual with any Gradius games, a super weak-boss.

I see what you mean, the part before entering the space-ship is crazy, you have to defeat 7 bosses in a row !!!!! I love that part !!! I was so excited when I saw they kind of referenced it at the beginning of Gradius V !

JoshTurboTrollX · 04/06/2006, 04:12 PM

GradiusII on the FamiCom is ULTRA friggin' hard!

I only have Gradius I for PC Engine so far, but from what I read the second one is pretty sweet. I love the one I have because its the original with an updated grafx and sountrack it feels more like Gradius III with all the gameplay from the original.

Its hella sweet!!

You'll have to respond to how GradiusII is..

TurboSage

lkermel · 04/06/2006, 04:33 PM

Quote from: turbo_sageYou'll have to respond to how GradiusII is..

Gradius II is the first CDRom game I ever bought and I litteraly couldn't believe my eyes the first time I played. The gigantic suns and fire-dragons of the first stage are just breath taking, and the soundtrack is awesome. One of the best shooter for the PC Engine system I think.

Ninja Spirit · 07/25/2006, 11:25 AM

I beat Gradius II for Famicom several times. Believe me, I had to really practice the last two stages hard, at that point in the game you cannot afford to die and lose all your power ups. It is crazy though, the level before the last is the bitchiest one. You got so little space to move around in, so much shooting around you, enemies appear out of thin air in the most unlikeliest places. Then before you know it, you're in what's possibly the debut of another Gradius mainstay: The high speed maze.
I could be getting a copy of PC Engine Gradius II very shortly.

I do have a question about the music for PCE CD Gradius 2

Not that it matters, but does the soundtrack have it share of both CD and PSG?

akamichi · 07/25/2006, 01:11 PM

Quote from: Ninja SpiritI do have a question about the music for PCE CD Gradius 2

Not that it matters, but does the soundtrack have it share of both CD and PSG?

I'm pretty sure the entire soundtrack is CDDA. At least, I don't remember it having any PSG music.

esteban · 07/25/2006, 02:08 PM

Quote from: akamichi
Quote from: Ninja SpiritI do have a question about the music for PCE CD Gradius 2

Not that it matters, but does the soundtrack have it share of both CD and PSG?
I'm pretty sure the entire soundtrack is CDDA. At least, I don't remember it having any PSG music.

Yeah, I don't recall any PSG stuff...

grahf · 07/25/2006, 03:04 PM

I picked up SCD Gradius II a little while back, and just started playing it (finally beat Gradius I). Its kicking my ass! Im a bit of a shooter newbie, but im slowly geting my reflexes up to par.

Also, about the konami famicom games, i have a copy of Akumajou Densetsu (Castlevania 3) for famicom. Its the one with the extra sound chip. AWESOME sound in that game, its a joy to listen to.

Ninja Spirit · 07/25/2006, 03:36 PM

Y'know there are several other Konami Famicom titles that have that same chip Akumajo Densetsu does, and another chip that sounds better than that.

grahf · 07/25/2006, 05:56 PM

I didnt know that, thanks for the info. I guess i reminded you to update your other thread

Kiken · 08/19/2006, 03:04 AM

I recently completed a No Miss play-through of the first loop of PC-E SCD Gradius II. For those interested in seeing this demonstration, the link is here:
http://www.super-play.co.uk/index.php?superplay=660

Differences between the arcade original and the PCE-SCD version are subtle (much like the differences between Salamander arcade and Salamander on HuCard):

The resolution is stretched out a bit on the PC-E SCD version, making the sprites (and their hit-boxes) a bit larger. The number of fire dragons appearing in stage 1 is less than the arcade, and they are far stingier with releasing power-ups. Stage 6 (ruined temple) is a PC-E exclusive stage which appears in no other version (like the bone yard in the PC-E HuCard of the original Gradius). The PC-E version also features a second intro as part of its attract mode (once again, a PC-E exclusive). The shattering crystals in stage 3 move and react a little differently to the ones in the arcade original. It seems that the milking trick with Gau in the arcade version can not be done in the PC-E version (Gau will continue to move instead of getting stuck at the bottom of the screen). The gunpods on Keeper's Core can not be destroyed until the main core unit becomes active (in the arcade version these gunpods can be destroyed almost immediately).

Also, while we're on the topic:
PC-E Gradius Loop 1 No Miss demonstration
Famicom Gradius II Loop 1 No Miss demonstration

esteban · 08/19/2006, 04:03 AM

Quote from: KikenI recently completed a No Miss play-through of the first loop of PC-E SCD Gradius II. For those interested in seeing this demonstration, the link is here:
http://www.super-play.co.uk/index.php?superplay=660

Differences between the arcade original and the PCE-SCD version are subtle (much like the differences between Salamander arcade and Salamander on HuCard):

The resolution is stretched out a bit on the PC-E SCD version, making the sprites (and their hit-boxes) a bit larger. The number of fire dragons appearing in stage 1 is less than the arcade, and they are far stingier with releasing power-ups. Stage 6 (ruined temple) is a PC-E exclusive stage which appears in no other version (like the bone yard in the PC-E HuCard of the original Gradius). The PC-E version also features a second intro as part of its attract mode (once again, a PC-E exclusive). The shattering crystals in stage 3 move and react a little differently to the ones in the arcade original. It seems that the milking trick with Gau in the arcade version can not be done in the PC-E version (Gau will continue to move instead of getting stuck at the bottom of the screen). The gunpods on Keeper's Core can not be destroyed until the main core unit becomes active (in the arcade version these gunpods can be destroyed almost immediately).

Also, while we're on the topic:
PC-E Gradius Loop 1 No Miss demonstration
Famicom Gradius II Loop 1 No Miss demonstration

Rock on, thanks for the scoop

. Now, when will I have the time to watch these videos?

Vanquish · 08/21/2006, 08:54 AM

I've never played a Gradius game before Gradius 2 Gofer (PC Engine)
Then i bought it and fell in love

For me, only RType CD is better than Gradius 2.