Daisenpu vs. Daisenpu Custom

[arromdee]

The listing for these on www.pcengine.co.uk claims that even though Custom is on CD, it's inferior to the card version.  What did they change that makes this a bad version?

Edit: whoops, I saw that the review for Daisenpuu mentions cutting areas and graphics.  Though I'm puzzled as to why that would even happen.  (And what is "custom" about the CD version?)

[ccovell]

For some graphics, check out here:  http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/toaplan/toaplan3.htm

As for the reasons, HuCards like Daisenpu can access any of the 4Mbit ROM at any time.  The CD version could only load in 1/2 a Mbit at a time to the system RAM, hence the game has to be cut up more.

[CrackTiger]

There are some good comparison pics somewhere in this thread-

https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=6609.0

[Tatsujin]

As for the reasons, HuCards like Daisenpu can access any of the 4Mbit ROM at any time.  The CD version could only load in 1/2 a Mbit at a time to the system RAM, hence the game has to be cut up more.

But this couldn't be a general reason for CD-Rom games, right? Or else how did they managed to do games like Spriggan or Monsterlair etc. which showing in each level a multiple times of the the grafx, daisenpuu customs showing throug its whole game.

That's nothing else than sloppy work.

[ccovell]

But it is a general reason for CD games.  It's the reason the SuperCD was developed.  Compile and Hudson / Alfa are just examples of the best programmers on the PCE, so they did a lot to optimize their code.  IIRC, Monster Lair stored extra graphics in the ADPCM RAM, giving almost 128K of storage available (after a short delay).

NEC Avenue might have had a monopoly on arcade conversions, but they're quite the sloppy programmers, for several reasons, IMO.

[shubibiman]

I always thought NEC Avenue were not really good at porting arcade games. I'm glad I'm not the only one in that case.

[SignOfZeta]

This is not uncommon with 90s CD games. While the CD format itself offers basically unlimited storage, it can only be used in bite sized portions equal or smaller in size than the ammounts of RAM the system has. The CDROM2 format with the original System Card is PATHETICALLY small. It's honestly amazing they can do anything with it.

RAM limitation was a problem all the way through the days of the Playstation, which was hit particularly hard. All of Capcom and SNK's fighting game conversions suffered, some more than others. Consider something like Marvel Super Heroes versus Street Fighter. The original arcade ROM is like...I don't know, maybe 45MB, you could easily fit the entire game on a CD a dozen times, but since the PS only has 2 MB or RAM...you can't fit four characters and a background in RAM at once. You can't even fit two characters without significant animation cuts.

[RegalSin]

Why is everybody molly coddlying a videogame. Who really cares what was, and is Arcade, or port perfect. The flat fact is the game is playable, has great sound and most importantly was released more then once. You think this is the only PCE game that got a revamp, and rerelease.

Also why blame the programmers, hell they did a better job then most of us here combined already. What about the artists, who redid the blasted tiles for the game everytime it was ported, or the sound people. Maybe they just did it on purpose for some reason, to give the player another reason to rebuy the same game again.

[ccovell]

Get coal in your stocking, RegalSin?

Yeah, NEC Avenue wanted people to buy the same game twice.  It's not a revamp, it's a downgrade, as the CD version was released 6 months after the HuCard version but is inferior (sans music).  If AV wanted money so badly, they should have waited another 6 months and made it a less constrained SuperCD release.

[SignOfZeta]

Why is everybody molly coddlying a videogame. Who really cares what was, and is Arcade, or port perfect. The flat fact is the game is playable, has great sound and most importantly was released more then once. You think this is the only PCE game that got a revamp, and rerelease.

Also why blame the programmers, hell they did a better job then most of us here combined already. What about the artists, who redid the blasted tiles for the game everytime it was ported, or the sound people. Maybe they just did it on purpose for some reason, to give the player another reason to rebuy the same game again.

I think the point of this thread was more to ask, "Why would a CDROM2 release be inferior to a HuCard release?" and the answer is "RAM was hilariously expensive in the 90s". We aren't ragging on the programmers, but its sad to see the weakness of CDROM on the PCE (this isn't the only example). If anyone were to blame it would be the publishers who are so interested in releasing something on CDROM but won't fund revamping the game enough to exploit the strengths of the format other than "bad 80s Roland crap remixed music".

[esteban]

I've asked this before, but I've never had anyone provide a conclusive answer:

The CD version (Daisenpu Custom) appears to have the same Red Book tracks repeated over and over...so, you don't even get to enjoy the "soundtrack" aspect of the release. The song, from what I remember, was pretty mediocre, anyway.

I've spent 99% of my time playing the HuCard, not the CD, so I was hoping that someone who has played Custom can confirm that the Red Book music, is, essentially, a sham.

If the tracks aren't identical, they are modest variations on a theme that sound nearly identical to the main tune.

Please, for the love of PCE, help me figure this out

I don't even know where my Custom CD is...it's in a bin in the basement, sitting next to other disappointing titles like Australius and everything by Micro Cabin.

[RegalSin]

They felt the current PCECD was good enough for a CD-rom release, and wanted to capture X amount of users who had access to the CD-rom instead of forcing consumers to purchase the next card.

If AV wanted money so badly, they should have waited another 6 months and made it a less constrained SuperCD release

How about this idea. What if they were making two differnt ports of the same exact game, and thus both had differnt presentations. Would that make more sense? At the time, they had made the decision that releasing either variant would not make a difference in sales, and would not harm them. It is kinda childish but in a creative sense, it makes sense.

[SignOfZeta]

If they had waited that long there would have been so many other games on the market that weren't Daisempu that "Custom" never would have sold as well.

It's kind of like that Shogi game that launched with the N64. I don't know how well I sold, but I'm sure it moved 100 times as many copies as it would have two years later when it no longer represented %33.3 of the entire N64 library.

[Mishran]

Is there that much of a difference in the two to warrant hunting down the more expensive (huh???) huey version if you have the CD one? I'd assume no, but I haven't played the huey either.

[CrackTiger]

Is there that much of a difference in the two to warrant hunting down the more expensive (huh???) huey version if you have the CD one? I'd assume no, but I haven't played the huey either.

Judge for yourself-

CD	HU

[Tatsujin]

Not that the huey version is already bland as hell, no the cd one tops that like twice the time.

[esteban]

Not that the huey version is already bland as hell, no the cd one tops that like twice the time.

Tats, sometimes I scratch my head when I'm trying to decipher your posts

[Tatsujin]

LOL

[PukeSter]

Just don't buy it
I only have the hucard on an emulator, and let me tell you, it is extremely boring, lame, and unexciting. Pure rubbish and a bad port. If you want a good Toaplan shmup, buy Kyuukyoku Tiger or the wonderful but insanely expensive Tatsujin(Truxton)