Chiptunes are not a genre / me complaining that alot of chiptune people are dens

[Arkhan Asylum]

I hate the current chiptune fad/craze/hipster trainwreck.   Mostly because the crap you hear at these concerts is all Nintendo / Gameboy stuff.  Of course.   Why would it be anything but Nintendo.  That's all round eye knows.

This dude Danimal Cannon / Dan Behrens did a panel at PAX.   You've probably seen him on YouTube doing metal related stuff or NES/Gameboy related chiptuning.  It's pretty sweet shit.  Cool.  I like the guitar + NES stuff.  It's been a fad since before YouTube, but I like it.

Here is the thing that pissed me off:  http://tech.mit.edu/V132/N18/paxgames.html

I first saw it on someones Facebook, where I chimed in.

Dan himself stepped in to find out why I was in disagreement with the little summary (that was likely prepared by dipshits who can't even spell C64).   Especially the part where I don't call chiptunes chiptunes unless they play on the chips in question.  I don't know if they wrapped their head around that concept yet.   

He says its not a genre in his panel and enforces it to the point that it becomes the take away message of the whole thing, but then gets kind of crabby when I say his songs aren't chiptunes because he's got guitar and other stuff that can't play off the chips in question.   CHIPTUNES AREN'T A GENRE.  WHAT DO YOU MEAN MY SONGS AREN'T CHIPTUNES.   make up your mind.  Do you want the genre or not.

I don't see what's so confusing about this concept.  When you introduce real instruments, it ceases to be a chiptune.  Whoopeedoo.   That's how I see it.  Your metal solo can't play off the NES sound chip.  Cry me a river.

I ended up adding the guy on Facebook, and ended up watching the WHOLE thing from his panel.  It was hipsterlicious. 

I was nice enough to send my list of corrections as a private message instead of on his Facebook wall as a comment on the video itself.   I never got a reply.   I at least expected a thank-you for allowing him to learn some things in private, instead of looking like a misinformed doof in front of all of his friends and fans since he had an upcoming (now current!) tour to prepare for.   I mean shit, if you're going to inform an entire crowd at a convention, you better have your shit straight.  Otherwise, you've just misinformed an entire room full of people.

For example, he plays POKEY music, except he's really just playing Atari 2600 music.  That's not POKEY.

then he plays "SID music", when he really plays an Amiga MOD. AcidJazzed Evening to be precise.

and some other shit. 

So that is my rant.  I'm tired of this shit.  It all sounds like Nintendo music.   Half of it I swear I heard already in Mc Kids or Mega Man.   I've been to a fistfull of these shows.   It's always some kids with gameboys, stomping around on stage pressing the buttons in the little tracker/sequence, or using an NES.

I talked to the dude in Crystal Castles a few times.  He samples C64 stuff and is literally oblivious about the C64.   Maybe he isn't now, but at the time he was like UHH, WHAT? huh? OH I SAMPLED THAT ONCE I THINK HUHUH.  Holy christ. 

THATS IT.

Then sometimes they add guitars and drums.   It's still Nintendofused.

So, yeah, sure, chiptunes aren't a genre.   Right.
 
Its just a bunch of half cocked teens/<30 year olds using Nintendo because they're ignorant to everything else and often aren't actually willing to learn about anything as long as they can diddle their gameboy into some trance music.   It's some retarded trend where people are making bank off this overdone Nintendo shit while the real talented, clued in chiptune people have fallen by the wayside.   these dopes probably couldn't pick Hulsbeck or Tel out of a crowd if you paid them.

If you're going to do an hour long panel about chiptunes and present yourself as some expert/pro in the field, know the difference between an Amiga MOD and a fucking SID tune.  It isn't even hard.  Especially since AcidJazzed Evening has a SID version too that sounds different enough to notice its two different machines!

Know the difference between the shit-as-balls 2600 TIA chip, and POKEY.

and don't get crabby or philosophical when someone else shows up who knows better than you and points things out.   Be receptive and thankful that they're wasting their time on your sorry ass long enough to teach you something while you're getting ready to go tour.

take away message: You can't spell trainwreck without TIA.

I want to see the real chiptuners all do a giant live show.  They can open for all of these bands.  I guarantee you minds will be blown.

oh, and one of them said the PCE sounded weak compared to the Nintendo.

I rest my case.  This shit needs to stop.

[Tatsujin]

I read until..oh, and one of them said the PCE sounded weak compared to the Nintendo...!!

WOWLOL!!!

(ok, i read the remaining rest too).

[Ji-L87]

I see your point and I agree, even though I don't care so much if it's played on real hardware or using a tracker. But yes, the most interesting part of chip music is just that, done through a chip - and the limitations and challenges that comes with it.
Above anything else, I'm just tired of hearing NES/GBC-style music. There are other sound chips out there they should try. *hint*PCE*hint*
I also agree on the trance music-insertion-thing. It's getting tiresome as well.

As for it being a genre, there are enough dudes creating this kind of music around to make it a genre, even though it technically didn't start out as one.
Though, I cringe everytime some indie dev creates this cool 16-bit looking game and the music is obviously 8-bit chip tune-ish.

oh, and one of them said the PCE sounded weak compared to the Nintendo.

[_Paul]

I wish people would get off the NES sound obsession. It's like they don't know any better.

[Arkhan Asylum]

I wish people would get off the NES sound obsession. It's like they don't know any better.

That's basically the short, unangry version of my rant. lol

[Tatsujin]

SID is where its at (as for me )

[SignOfZeta]

I think you are a bit too purist, and since what you are being purist about, 30 year old pathetic noisy-ass sound chips that only sound the way they do because they were trying as hard as they could to sound like traditional instruments but didn't know any better, its hard for me to get on that wagon, as much as I like angry wagons.

I do agree that the sounds of this genre are getting to be tired, especially when I hear the stuff in Target commercials or whatever, and the way SID and FC samples work their way into shitty Youtube "hiphop" videos and such basically makes me want to puke. I'm not going to get militant about it though.

This recalls to mind a similar but slightly stupider argument from the late 90s when people first started doing Gameboy concerts. There was one scene that favored using effects, sometimes extreme shit like guitar pedals and tape delays, sometimes more subtle stuff like just EQing and compressing it enough so that it won't make your ears bleed at high concert level volumes, and another scene was all "NO! JUST RAW GAMEBOY!". Evidently both sides lost because now the kids just sample anything without ever having even known the original hardware.

The idea that a band can't be "chip tunes" with guitar in it is pretty dick, IMO. Its like saying Helloween can't be metal because they use keyboards and choirs and stuff, that turntablism isn't music, or that a game machine can't be an instrument in the first place. Genre's are for critics and other idiots so they can put everything in little boxes and think they understand stuff.

I like the Mellotron. Would I go see a concert by a band that used nothing but Mellotrons? Probably, but I'd be skeptical since drums would really help. Do I need Mellotron to be a genre? Fuck no.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Zeta, my point is chiptunes now encompasses anything that sounds like Nintendo. 

You have a full band: 2 guitars, drums, bass, sometimes singing (read: yelling horribly?).

then you throw in some Nintendo shit you diddled out in NerdTracker

suddenly, your pop punk band is a chiptune band, and EVERYONE LOVES YOU MORE NOW.  "Omg its nintendoitssoretroilovemarioandyoshi.  myfavoritenintendosystemistheGENESISomgyes!!1"

fuck that.   That's dumb.

[Nando]

If you're going to do an hour long panel about chiptunes and present yourself as some expert/pro in the field, know the difference between an Amiga MOD and a fucking SID tune. 

Agree, know your sources and where shit comes from, the history is important and will add to the overall experience and product.

I rest my case.  This shit needs to stop.

Um, no ya need to release a few tracks and show them fools!  ;)

[Arkhan Asylum]

I do have tracks.  They're all just in games basically. 

They'd go HURR ITS NOT CHEPTUNES

anyways

because it doesn't sound like Super Mario 3 fucking Silver Surfer for NES

[kamiboy]

There is something about the NES/GB soundtracks though. I am sure I could come up with some explanation as to why if I ruminated on the subject long enough, but at the end of the day it all just comes down to personal preference. Out of all the systems I own when it comes down to it the tunes of those two 8-bit Nintendo systems have always towered above everything else.

It is not nostalgia either because I grew up mostly around SEGA systems which so far has only netted me a lukewarm attachment to the Master System music library and a negative response to the grating aesthetics of the Mega Drive.

As a kid I had access to C64 systems but the games never interested me enough to give them a fair shake. The Amiga on the other hand I'll admit to being host to some pretty amazing tracks, but once again the games didn't interest me enough to give the system much beyond a cursory glance.

What can I say, I seem to only be able to stomach Japanese developed games for some reason.

In conclusion one should never split hairs or expect defining purity when it comes to mainstream cultural phenomenons. Just ignore it and it will go away. The NES is the system that the plebeian masses grew up around and they are now at the age where they are nostalgic for their lost youth and what was part of it.

Ten, twenty more years and they will be too old for such nostalgic pursuits which will pave the way for the nostalgic affinities of the generation after.

[Nazi NecroPhile]

Who gives a shit what a bunch of trend jumping goons think or how they classify music?

[Arkhan Asylum]

Who gives a shit what a bunch of trend jumping goons think or how they classify music?

When enough trend jumping goons latch on and become the majority, stupid shit begins to occur.

Mainly: Rampant ignorance

this is usually followed by stupid companies and groups glomming onto it, to make it even worse.   

I don't want to see "I <3 CHIPTUNE" tshirts at walmart, or MTV doing specials about the history of chiptunes, citing their begin date as like, 2005, with some 19 year old dipshit hosting the whole thing, talking about how badass the Super Genesis 16 was when he used to play it while listening to A Tracks with his older cousin that had all the sweet retro gear, including a Speak and Spell computer.

or some dumbass disaster like that

[Nazi NecroPhile]

Well then, lolrage your heart out.  I'm sure you'll change the world.

[Arkhan Asylum]

See, if enough people lolrage about it, it might!

or, it will at least give me someone to lolrage with. 

[Nando]

There is something about the NES/GB soundtracks though.

Yes, Nintendo dominated the market after the crash and became embedded into our psyche. From the sound to the style to what the majority of people view as games. Hell even Mario is about as well known as Mickey Mouse and Spiderman. There's no denying the power of their brand.

It comes down to the 'ol techno music = All EDM (electronic dance music) argument.

Long live the underground where the sweet stuff is always concocted and may it go mainstream to edumacate the masses!


Ark, you should still put stuff out. At let it speak for it self.

[Arkhan Asylum]

I always planned on it at some point, but I've been too busy with the other aetherbytestuff.


Maybe I will come up with something and wail over it with my guitar and go LOLPCECHIPTUNEMETALROCKS

and see if it starts a revolution.   

It wont.   Unless Kotaku says its cool.

[Nando]

I always planned on it at some point, but I've been too busy with the other aetherbytestuff.

I figured. Still waiting on that squirrel tutorial. You are done with your paper right?  ;) HAHAH I keed, I keed...

[Arkhan Asylum]

yep.

as of like a weekish ago.

It's on my list for this weekend.  I got my MIDI keyboard back from my buddy, so now it'll be more-tutorialable

Without it, its not as fun.

[guyjin]

So I've been working a lot of overtime for the last month or so, and have been listening to an internet streaming station that plays chiptunes.

At least there, it seems that about half the music is made with a NES, 40% is SID stuff, and 10% everything else (gameboy, POKEY, Yamaha FM, etc). Some of it is good, some is not so good. Such is life. Why get worked up over it?

[Arkhan Asylum]

Such is life. Why get worked up over it?

I think perhaps it's because of my age bracket.   I am surrounded by those people in that late teen - late 20's grouping that are all really fucking mindless and do dumb shit all the time, in unison

[Tatsujin]

lol, like this thread, really like it

[Tatsujin]

btw, now evrybody can mek cheptunes with google toppaeg.

http://www.google.com

whole four channels to do some seriious shit.

[kazekirifx]

I like both pure chiptunes and also chiptunes with other instruments added. Both are cool to me, and I've gotten used to and come to accept the use of the term to refer to both. I'm not sure I agree with it, but the term has become accepted to most people.

Personal preference here, but I do also prefer that the original chips are used, in both cases above. Honestly, though, I doubt I could tell the difference just by listening.

I also wish there was more usage of soundchips other than NES and Gameboy. Personally, Yamaha FM is where it's at in my book. It's obvious why NES and Gameboy are over-represented though. The systems were and are more widely played than others, and the sound is distinct and recognizeable to more people... at least more so than the sound of most other systems. Therefore NES/GB sound is going to stimulate that nostalgia nerve for more people out there. Deal with it.

[Arkhan Asylum]

I honestly think the SID chip should be at the front of all this chiptune bullshiznittle.

If I wasn't working on game programming, right before I started it actually, I was using a C64 w/ 2 SIDs in it as a beat machine to play guitar and synth over


It was badass.   I stopped doing that to make games though, lol.


I wouldn't be as angry about it if there was more education about this crap.   It's the equivalent of a metal band having no idea what the hell a Marshall amp is.

[Tatsujin]

LOL, that goes for almost every music genre which needs its right education. Too much peeps out there doing too much shit everyday and everywhere. Noone can or ever will be able to stop that.

[PikachuWarrior]

I call those synthetic sounds, midi's.

[Tatsujin]

Midi itself has nothing to do with that. Midi is only a pure music sheet.

[Otaking]

all gay.

needs more Scotch Egg  
Pure win

http://vimeo.com/2414977

[Tatsujin]

lol. pure noise!

[Tatsujin]

[Nando]

DUDE!

[guyjin]

Good stuff Tats

[RegalSin]

First off

1.Arkan welcome to my world insanity.

2. Electronic related music from syth boards, have allways been mocked and downsized by our parents. If we were like 25 in 1990's I believe we would probably hanging out in the Amiga crowd, if not then the people who were just non-heterosexual for listen to techno music.

3. Okay, believe or not their are a couple of films that were made in the 20XX time,
that related to videogames. However everything was arcade related. That is why on
GAMEPRO or is GAMEINFORMER, they use that god forsaken Invaders as an icon, in their magazine typeface. That is how far as the west world has come to videogames.
To make matters worst the entire popularity skipped an entire generation ( our generation ) and now twenty year olds ( and younger ) thinks "Scott Pilgrim" is a
cool movie and cool comic, along with "me and my life", the cartoon. Seriously that is how it is.

Seriously that is how much advancement the west has made, in terms of seeing videogames as a type of media, and manga being considered comics. At least that it is on the hollywood consumers, children. You know what we were.

4. Yes I feel, embarassed. Now I see myself growing up, threw all the differnt transitions.

5. Oh lets not forget the usage of "TopGear" music in Mtv videos.

[Tatsujin]

DUDE!

Good stuff Tats

Tel is an oldskooler in the chiptune biz and one of the best SID composer in my books

but even he uses some extra equipement to boost the SIDs into dancehall fever! and most of his stuff his doing at parties are his own game music creations from the 80s/90s.

[Arkhan Asylum]

I bet half these fuckin "Chiptune" people (read: NEStune people) couldn't pick tel out of a crowd, dude.

I think if the popular chiptune culture crap did something besides obvious NES use, and was a little broader in spectrum (complete with an actual clue as to what they are doing), it wouldn't be as bad.


but when you've got dipshits telling people Amiga MOD's are SIDTunes, and THOSE people are regarded as experts in the field, there is something wrong.