HuCard vs. CD-ROM² (CD, SCD, ACD)

[ToyMachine78]

Dark Wizard is my favorite Sega CD title. I always turn off the visual battles though; the game plays so much more efficiently with text-only battling. The visual battles are pure fluff, and not even good fluff... you don't get to see anyone actually turned to stone, critical hits are never shown, etc. There's just so much missing from the visual battles that it makes them rather stupid to even have turned on. A neutral Ninja attacking with a bow does the same visual attack as if he was wielding a sword, a Dragon Rider always has the same attack whether he uses the normal attack or the breath weapon, etc. It's cool to see it the first time, perhaps... to see how characters look next to each other (like seeing a tiny wizard throwing a dozen fireballs at a Death Dragon, for example), but it gets old fast... couple that with the slow loading time and it just becomes a bore.

*end rant*

That must be where I went wrong. I didn't know that there was text battling because I didn't have a manual, and the visual battle about bored me to stone. The intro and cut scenes were cool though.

AD&D to me was rendered unplayable due to cumbersome controls. Trying to point and click with a mouse arrow using a control pad gets old fast.

Dune was just horrible. I couldn't bare to look at it. It looked like someone vomited on the TV screen.

[Xak]

^Are you kidding? Didnt have a manual? What did you turn the game off after the title screen?

Its rather explicit in the options menu.

[OldRover]

That must be where I went wrong. I didn't know that there was text battling because I didn't have a manual, and the visual battle about bored me to stone. The intro and cut scenes were cool though.

I think it defaults to visual battling; you probably have to set it manually.

You can set it from the title screen
/dw1.png

or also in-game
/dw2.png

by changing "REAL" to "TEXT"
/dw3.png

and if you're good enough at the game, you can reach here:
/dw4.png

[Xak]

I bow down to you Rove, my Dark Wizard

[ToyMachine78]

^Are you kidding? Didnt have a manual? What did you turn the game off after the title screen?

Its rather explicit in the options menu.

Hey STFU! Even though I posted in a public forum, I didn't ask for your input 

[Xak]

No need to get nasty now


I havent played the game in years and remember the option to turn the battles off since that was the games major issue . Oh well, another good Fire Emblem hack awaits

[wyndcrosser]

No, I like HuCard and Turbo CD games equally. I play more cards though, but ownly because I own more.

To me the TGCD offers more higher quality games than the Sega CD does. I sold my Sega CD for that reason. Now granted, I did not experience a lot of the collection, but I didn't have much fun playing what I did own, and didn't want to risk investing any more money in the games. Afterall I could use that money to buy TG16, SNES, or Genny games that are more fun, cheaper, and there are many more titles to choose from.

I'm not a fan of the SNES for the same reason. After buying Shaq-Fu, Race Drivin, Pit Fighter, Bebe's Kids, Mario's Early Years: Fun with Letters, Rise of The Robots, RapJam: Volume One and a string of other duds, I sold my collection for what I could and bought some quality Genesis titles like Barney's Hide N' Seek, Shaq Fu, Sword of Sodan, Technocop, Barbie: Super Model, Double Dragon II, Slaughter Sport, and Strider Returns. Plus Falcon, Gunboat, Tailspin, Night Creatures, Ballistix, Jack Nicklaus Turbo Golf, for the TurboGrafx-16

I was smart enough to avid the Sega-CD altogether, lest I get stuck with turds like Lunar SS, Lunar EB, Popful Mail, Shining Force CD, AD&D EotB, Dungeon Master II, Dark Wizard, Dune, Vay, Dungeon Explorer, Lords of Thunder, Snatcher, The Space Adventure, Rise of the Dragon, Final Fight CD, Keio Flying Squadron, Sonic CD, Ecco CD, Earthworm Jim SCD, Android Assault, Robo Aleste, Silpheed, Sol Feace, Battle Corps, Soul Star, Flashback, Heart of the Alien, Secret of Monkey Island, Mickey Mania, etc.

Sarcasm lol.

[ToyMachine78]

No need to get nasty now


I havent played the game in years and remember the option to turn the battles off since that was the games major issue . Oh well, another good Fire Emblem hack awaits

(In Comic Dog accent) I kid, I kid! Hence the smiley.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Eye of the Beholder is awesome.   Pointy Clicky works fine.  Worked fine on SNES, too.

[wildfruit]

HuCards!
Because I don't have any cd rom 

[RyuHayabusa]

Have to go with CDROM2. Most of my favorite titles are on CD. Dracula X, the Ys games, Sapphire, Forgotten Worlds, etc

[esteban]

This was unfair from the beginning.

I may have to vote HuCARD, simply to help out the poor little format.

[Nazi NecroPhile]

Dune was just horrible. I couldn't bare to look at it. It looked like someone vomited on the TV screen.

You crazy.  I can see peeps being turned off by the game play (it's more digi-comic than anything), but it looks quite good.  Have you tried Battle For Arrakis?  It sports a similar presentation based on Lynch's movie, but the RTS gameplay is much more entertaining.

[TurboXray]

Nowadays, everything is about "retro" charm. Hucards are charming. But back then, CD format was the way to go.

Even back then when I was little, I found a lot of games had corny CD music that doesn't seem to fit the game as well.   Especially arcadey games, or arcade ports.  The chippy music just kind of works right with the graphics.  Alot of times, there ends up being this disjointed feeling with the music.  Kind of like crappy Amiga games.

RPGs are the biggest exception.  Those games look/sound great with CD audio.

I actually like when the games on CD resort to chiptunes as much as possible though. 

Yeah, there are some games that have a lite feeling of disconnect between graphics and audio. But that's definitely subjective. I would say that the majority of CD games with CDDA tracks didn't have this, but I've seen posts about this issue and (they) feel that more PCE CD games have this issue.

 I know you said you played these BITD (or approximately around that era), but age and previous experience also has a lot to do with it. My older son grew up in the PSX generation. He played 16bit generation games at the time too (and a some 8bit stuff), but he definitely has a completely different view point of that generation in comparison to someone that went through the 8 and 16bit generation.

 I put you in that camp. While you might have played the TG16 BITD at age 5 or such, it's not the same having gone through the 8bit generation (or rather 3rd generation IIRC, because the first three are technically 8bit dominated) as an older child or teen. And then into the 16bit generation. And that's not a snide remark against you; you have a rather unique view and experience when it comes to gaming of those two generations. If anything, it's actually better in a few ways. You didn't have that, "I need better graphics, more colors! Better music! Better animation! More, more, more!". That the NES generation brought upon us, and just escalated in the 16bit era.

 There was a time during the 16bit era, where I thought TG16 chiptunes sounded awesome/amazing, and then later on where I couldn't stand it - because they sounded inferior (that happened with the Genesis as well). When I imported Legend of Xanadu for the Duo, I was completely *pissed* that it had chiptunes. I was sooo mad. It took a long time for me to appreciate TG chiptunes. But even to this day, still loving my TG/PCE/Duo, I can only take so much PCE chiptune exposure. Strange that NES doesn't bother me in the slightest - love that sound.

 But I digress. The only real disconnect that I experienced with PCE CD games, were sound FX. You have 6 whole channels to make more advance sound effects, yet they stick to the same 1 or 2 channel basic sound FX as early hucard. That used to piss me off. Especially after having experienced games like Gate of Thunder and Lords of Thunder. Where everything was top notch, in all departments.

[Arkhan Asylum]

I was kind of burned out by "CD audio" or anything really fancy because of growing up playing Amiga games.

 I will most likely always prefer the instruments being pretend chiptune instruments for video games versus real instruments. 

I blame that on really liking arcade games also.  There were alot of arcades around here growing up and they were all basically puking out FM tunes. 

[esteban]

Nowadays, everything is about "retro" charm. Hucards are charming. But back then, CD format was the way to go.

Even back then when I was little, I found a lot of games had corny CD music that doesn't seem to fit the game as well.   Especially arcadey games, or arcade ports.  The chippy music just kind of works right with the graphics.  Alot of times, there ends up being this disjointed feeling with the music.  Kind of like crappy Amiga games.

RPGs are the biggest exception.  Those games look/sound great with CD audio.

I actually like when the games on CD resort to chiptunes as much as possible though. 

Yeah, there are some games that have a lite feeling of disconnect between graphics and audio. But that's definitely subjective. I would say that the majority of CD games with CDDA tracks didn't have this, but I've seen posts about this issue and (they) feel that more PCE CD games have this issue.

 I know you said you played these BITD (or approximately around that era), but age and previous experience also has a lot to do with it. My older son grew up in the PSX generation. He played 16bit generation games at the time too (and a some 8bit stuff), but he definitely has a completely different view point of that generation in comparison to someone that went through the 8 and 16bit generation.

 I put you in that camp. While you might have played the TG16 BITD at age 5 or such, it's not the same having gone through the 8bit generation (or rather 3rd generation IIRC, because the first three are technically 8bit dominated) as an older child or teen. And then into the 16bit generation. And that's not a snide remark against you; you have a rather unique view and experience when it comes to gaming of those two generations. If anything, it's actually better in a few ways. You didn't have that, "I need better graphics, more colors! Better music! Better animation! More, more, more!". That the NES generation brought upon us, and just escalated in the 16bit era.

 There was a time during the 16bit era, where I thought TG16 chiptunes sounded awesome/amazing, and then later on where I couldn't stand it - because they sounded inferior (that happened with the Genesis as well). When I imported Legend of Xanadu for the Duo, I was completely *pissed* that it had chiptunes. I was sooo mad. It took a long time for me to appreciate TG chiptunes. But even to this day, still loving my TG/PCE/Duo, I can only take so much PCE chiptune exposure. Strange that NES doesn't bother me in the slightest - love that sound.

 But I digress. The only real disconnect that I experienced with PCE CD games, were sound FX. You have 6 whole channels to make more advance sound effects, yet they stick to the same 1 or 2 channel basic sound FX as early hucard. That used to piss me off. Especially after having experienced games like Gate of Thunder and Lords of Thunder. Where everything was top notch, in all departments.

Bonknuts, I think you are around my age (born 01.31.1975), and I agree with nearly everything you said, except that music is very subjective...and I think the compositions themselves become a crucial element. When presented with Red Book audio, but the tracks are bland, or mismatched to the game, or simply not captivating (for whatever reason)...well, a decent  chiptune has a chance to worm its way into your heart. 

I know some folks actually really get annoyed with the synths (synth horns, especially) used by the "Telenet House Band"...I don't feel the same way, but I always wondered if they would feel the same way if the tunes were PSG and didn't scream "old 80's synth" like the tunes on Valis II, say.

Arkhan identified an important element to all of this: as sampling of instruments improved, it birthed a weird uncanny-pseudo-realism that does not always appeal to everyone. Sometimes it works, sometimes it just sounds sterile, or pathetic, or "wannabe". For example, I don't mind sampled percussion, however sampled guitar can irk me at times...

Yet, I don't mind the synth horns in Valis II.

It's very subjective (what annoys me vs. what pleases me), but I prefer synth/chiptunes that DON'T try to match their real-world counterparts...I think this is what Arkhan was stating.

Sadly, a lot of sampling used in 16-bit era carts/PC games strike me as pseudo-realistic (we can have electric guitar lead!) when I would have preferred a 100% synth lead (no real-world analogue).

Of course,the fact that I love Valis II's "atrociously dated" horn synths seemingly contradict all logic/reasoning—so, fuck it, it's too damn subjective.

Also, I didn't clearly differentiate the dynamic we are discussing (my own examples even conflated this):

Synth/sampling (professional instruments, studio, recorded for Red Book)

vs.

Synth/sampling (machine generated by console/PC)

BOTTOM LINE: I love chiptunes because I've always loved electronic music, especially unabashedly pure synth that relishes its own existence as a category unto itself, and not simply "lesser than real instruments"...

It saddens me that games shifted to generic orchestrated soundtracks, purely ambient soundscapes, short loops of music that repeat ad finitum but have no discernible beginning/middle/chorus/bridge/end, etc. etc.

I'll stop now. I think the bagels have arrived!

[Tatsujin]

I is March 7th 1975:pcgs:

[BlueBMW]

You crazy.  I can see peeps being turned off by the game play (it's more digi-comic than anything), but it looks quite good.  Have you tried Battle For Arrakis?  It sports a similar presentation based on Lynch's movie, but the RTS gameplay is much more entertaining.

I was spoiled having played Dune and Dune II on PC so neither the Sega CD Dune or Battle For Arrakis did much for me   Loved both games on PC btw.

[TurboXray]

Nowadays, everything is about "retro" charm. Hucards are charming. But back then, CD format was the way to go.

Even back then when I was little, I found a lot of games had corny CD music that doesn't seem to fit the game as well.   Especially arcadey games, or arcade ports.  The chippy music just kind of works right with the graphics.  Alot of times, there ends up being this disjointed feeling with the music.  Kind of like crappy Amiga games.

RPGs are the biggest exception.  Those games look/sound great with CD audio.

I actually like when the games on CD resort to chiptunes as much as possible though. 

Yeah, there are some games that have a lite feeling of disconnect between graphics and audio. But that's definitely subjective. I would say that the majority of CD games with CDDA tracks didn't have this, but I've seen posts about this issue and (they) feel that more PCE CD games have this issue.

 I know you said you played these BITD (or approximately around that era), but age and previous experience also has a lot to do with it. My older son grew up in the PSX generation. He played 16bit generation games at the time too (and a some 8bit stuff), but he definitely has a completely different view point of that generation in comparison to someone that went through the 8 and 16bit generation.

 I put you in that camp. While you might have played the TG16 BITD at age 5 or such, it's not the same having gone through the 8bit generation (or rather 3rd generation IIRC, because the first three are technically 8bit dominated) as an older child or teen. And then into the 16bit generation. And that's not a snide remark against you; you have a rather unique view and experience when it comes to gaming of those two generations. If anything, it's actually better in a few ways. You didn't have that, "I need better graphics, more colors! Better music! Better animation! More, more, more!". That the NES generation brought upon us, and just escalated in the 16bit era.

 There was a time during the 16bit era, where I thought TG16 chiptunes sounded awesome/amazing, and then later on where I couldn't stand it - because they sounded inferior (that happened with the Genesis as well). When I imported Legend of Xanadu for the Duo, I was completely *pissed* that it had chiptunes. I was sooo mad. It took a long time for me to appreciate TG chiptunes. But even to this day, still loving my TG/PCE/Duo, I can only take so much PCE chiptune exposure. Strange that NES doesn't bother me in the slightest - love that sound.

 But I digress. The only real disconnect that I experienced with PCE CD games, were sound FX. You have 6 whole channels to make more advance sound effects, yet they stick to the same 1 or 2 channel basic sound FX as early hucard. That used to piss me off. Especially after having experienced games like Gate of Thunder and Lords of Thunder. Where everything was top notch, in all departments.

Bonknuts, I think you are around my age (born 01.31.1975), and I agree with nearly everything you said, except that music is very subjective...and I think the compositions themselves become a crucial element. When presented with Red Book audio, but the tracks are bland, or mismatched to the game, or simply not captivating (for whatever reason)...well, a decent  chiptune has a chance to worm its way into your heart. 

I know some folks actually really get annoyed with the synths (synth horns, especially) used by the "Telenet House Band"...I don't feel the same way, but I always wondered if they would feel the same way if the tunes were PSG and didn't scream "old 80's synth" like the tunes on Valis II, say.

Arkhan identified an important element to all of this: as sampling of instruments improved, it birthed a weird uncanny-pseudo-realism that does not always appeal to everyone. Sometimes it works, sometimes it just sounds sterile, or pathetic, or "wannabe". For example, I don't mind sampled percussion, however sampled guitar can irk me at times...

Yet, I don't mind the synth horns in Valis II.

It's very subjective (what annoys me vs. what pleases me), but I prefer synth/chiptunes that DON'T try to match their real-world counterparts...I think this is what Arkhan was stating.

Sadly, a lot of sampling used in 16-bit era carts/PC games strike me as pseudo-realistic (we can have electric guitar lead!) when I would have preferred a 100% synth lead (no real-world analogue).

Of course,the fact that I love Valis II's "atrociously dated" horn synths seemingly contradict all logic/reasoning—so, fuck it, it's too damn subjective.

Also, I didn't clearly differentiate the dynamic we are discussing (my own examples even conflated this):

Synth/sampling (professional instruments, studio, recorded for Red Book)

vs.

Synth/sampling (machine generated by console/PC)

BOTTOM LINE: I love chiptunes because I've always loved electronic music, especially unabashedly pure synth that relishes its own existence as a category unto itself, and not simply "lesser than real instruments"...

It saddens me that games shifted to generic orchestrated soundtracks, purely ambient soundscapes, short loops of music that repeat ad finitum but have no discernible beginning/middle/chorus/bridge/end, etc. etc.

I'll stop now. I think the bagels have arrived!

I see what you're saying and I agree. There are bland/weak CD tracks for some CD games. But I view that no different than the same for PSG tracks. Not every PSG track is a masterpiece of composition. And BTW, Valis II is one my all time favorite tracks. Probably because it was the first TGCD game that I owned and played (owned a TGCD in early 1991, before the Duo/SuperCD).

 But yeah, pretty much around the same age. July '76.

[Arkhan Asylum]

The thing though is, even a weak PSG tune has charm because it's PSG and somehow accidentally fits in OK.

A weak CD track just sounds like some crappy Casio keyboard's demonstration feature.

Case in point: Energy.

[esteban]

BONKNUTS: Valis II.

The thing though is, even a weak PSG tune has charm because it's PSG and somehow accidentally fits in OK.

A weak CD track just sounds like some crappy Casio keyboard's demonstration feature.

Case in point: Energy.

A crappy tune is crappy.

And I love chiptunes (they are not inherently "lesser than" studio recordings), but crap is crap. 

But, we all draw our lines in the sand at different points. I really hate happy jingles UNLESS they are ridiculously catchy (then I love them as they worm their way into my cold heart).