Dark Knight- What'd ya' think? (possible spoilers)

Sinistron · 08/21/2008, 03:05 PM

Personally I thought it was vastly overrated. Here's a small list I'll start up of pros and cons. Mostly cons.

Pros-

Heath was good- even though his Joker'll probably be the next biggest Goth clown Halloween get-up since The Crow.

The Bat-pod was pretty cool.

Maggie Gyllenhall is in my eyes a much better actress than Katie Holmes- also cuter and quirkier.

Cons-

This movie sorely lacked a Bat Cave or Wayne Manor. Bruce's penthouse lacked character- made the whole thing feel transitional rather than grounded. I know that Wayne Manor was supposedly being "rebuilt"- but Batman can snap his fingers and have the whole city's cellphones converted into his own personal sonar monitor but he can't have a new Manor built in between films?

Though I heard this was "the Joker's story"- Joker had no character arc and no backstory- so while Heath was good- I didn't feel he was amazing- due to a pigeonholed role- certainly not worthy of an Oscar.

Batman's deep gruff voice was just plain old silly.

I found Harvey Dent's arc entirely unbelievable- aside from that- the guy's running around in no pain after becoming Two face (with half his face practically gone)- and then he gets killed off right after becoming a villain of sorts. They build him up all movie- then he's gone right after his origin.

I found the whole "Batman as villain" thing at the end a bit of a stretch and pretty hokey.

Why was Scarecrow trying to help Batman in the beginning? I didn't get that.

For a movie called "The Dark Knight" this was barely about Batman.

Was way longer than it had to be.

The action sequences by and large were reminiscent of the ones in Batman Begins- quick up-close shots- a sign that the director isn't confident in his action directing.

The ending with the boats- riots would have broken out on both boats. The whole "humans are generally good" message certainly didn't jibe with the rest of the movie.

This is just a start- anyone else?

For the record- I didn't see "The Following"- but I felt that this was the weakest of Nolan's movies- Memento, Insomnia, Batman Begins and The Prestige were all better movies IMO.

Ceti Alpha · 08/21/2008, 03:17 PM

...what Sin said.

Seriously though, I agree with all those criticisms. I find it crazy that so many people thought it was one of the best movies they've ever seen. So, unless there's a secret director's cut going around...

It wasn't a terrible movie by any means, but it was by no mean great IMO. As Sin pointed out, Batman's gruffy voice was cringe worthy. I know it makes sense he would try to disguise his voice, but it was just over the top. My major gripe with the movie was how they treated Harvey Dent. Exactly what Sin said. lol.

Joe Redifer · 08/21/2008, 06:01 PM

I loved the movie, but with the extreme hype it has been getting it is easy to see why some feel it is overrated.

Scarecrow wasn't trying to help Bats in the beginning. Bats tied him up and left him for the po-po along with the fake Batmans.

You forgot to list this under PROS:
Maggie's character dies.

JoshTurboTrollX · 08/21/2008, 06:18 PM

I was against the idea from the beginning of retelling the Batman/Joker story, as I personally feel that 1989's Batman with Michael Keaton and Jack Nicholsen was perfect and is one of my all time favorite movies. But I love Batman, so I had to see the movie.

I kind of agree with just about everything already mentioned, I thought it was a good movie, but definately not one of the best movies I've ever seen....lol

It just doesn't have that Tim Burton touch I loved from the '89 classic and Batman Returns....

Sinistron · 08/22/2008, 09:27 AM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 08/21/2008, 06:01 PMScarecrow wasn't trying to help Bats in the beginning. Bats tied him up and left him for the po-po along with the fake Batmans.

I remember Scarecrow saying something like "We're trying to help you" or something and Batman saying something like "I don't need your help"... Scarecrow was probably just trying to weasel his way out and I took it literally.

Joe Redifer · 08/23/2008, 01:25 AM

I think that was one of the fake Batmans who said that if I recall.

Digi.k · 08/23/2008, 10:38 PM

Just watched this on Friday. Its not bad I thought it was better than the last one... Just felt terribly depressed afterwards, poor Harvey and his woman

PCEngineHell · 08/24/2008, 11:44 AM

Yea it was one of the fake batmen, but Scarecrow did say something along the lines of Batman needing all the help he could get or something.

Joe Redifer · 08/24/2008, 02:26 PM

Batman (to the fake Batmen) - "I don't need your help"

Scarecrow - "That's not my diagnosis" (in reference to him thinking Batman is a nut job).

ParanoiaDragon · 08/25/2008, 02:35 AM

IIRC, Scarecrow, got a dose of his own medicine at the end of the first movie, & messed him up a bit, making him "think" he was a hero.

As for the movie, I thought it was mostly crap. For one thing, I'm not a Frank Miller fan(not that I've seen everything he's done, but, I don't care for Punisher, or his rendition of Joker). It's too dark for my liking, so much so, that most of the movie was boring. I just didn't have a good time, & the movie seemed like it should've ended after about an hour & a half, as it was way too long, that just made the movie even more boring. Joker sucked, plain & simple. Don't get me wrong, Heath did at playing the role of some random psycho who likes to wear make up, but, as a Joker in general, sucked. May not be his fault, since I'm sure they gave him the basic role in that direction. He was plain boring, just went around killing people.....yippeeeeeee. That's the story of Dark Knight, a guy calling himself the Joker, goes around killing people, oh, & Harvey Dent is trying to clean up the city, & becomes 2face in the process. Wow, what a story.

If anything, I was thinking, that it seems like Heath was playing a villian Mr. Zsasz pretending to be the Joker. Hell, the Joker is supposed to be the polar opposite of Batman, & I just didn't get that vibe from this film. Mark Hamill is the best joker to date, though, I don't know that he would be able to portray him in a live action film.

Christian Bale, just as he was with the last movie, is a boring Batman & Bruce Wayne, he's lacking something, & I'm not totally sure what it is. Generally speaking, I'd say Michael Keaton was the best live action Batman, however, I don't like the fact, that his Batman, would kill AND use guns, which are 2 things, that Batman wouldn't do(though, he used too back in the 40's, they changed that). Kevin Conroy is by far, for me, the best Batman ever! He just plain rocks, he's got both roles down perfect, & without sounding like he has 40 grit sandpaper in his throat! See here

I think I like Harvey/2Face, but, as time goes by since I saw the movie, I'm starting to find him forgettable. There were some scenes in the film that were amusing, like when Joker was in that nurses outfit, & coudln't get all the bombs to explode. But, man, it was boring, an example, the scene where they are driving thru some tunnel, & the Joker is trying to kill Harvey, I don't recall any music or anything, but, it seemed like there should've been. It was just long shots of vehicles driving, & some guns firing, blah, blah, blah.

I will say, that I was never impressed with the original movie, but, I kind of like it now. The main thing I like though, is the other characters, mainly James Gordon(he did great in both movies), & Lucious Fox, & Alfred Pennyworth. They were cool. Oh, I like the Scarecrow, & Liam Neeson as Ra's al Ghul was great! That's about all I can think of at the moment. While the movie wasn't the worst thing I'd ever thing, it just was boring, & some of the main character's stank at playing their respective roles.

rag-time4 · 08/25/2008, 12:56 PM

I saw Dark Knight with my roommates... It was the first Batman I've seen since the one with George Clooney.

I had a great time with it.

I really thought the Harvey Dent character was interesting. Up to the point where his fiance died, he was presented as a man with absolute faith and conviction in what he was doing. He believed so strongly in what he was doing that he was willing to look danger in the face and be undeterred. But when his fiance died, he was faced with a severe trial that he failed to overcome.

I agree with you guys about Batman's voice. I felt like it was cheesy and unnecessary, but I got used to it.

The Joker was interesting, I thought. I noticed that at a couple points in the movie he gave different stories about his childhood, and they seemed inconsistent. He seemed like a fairly realistic character to me. I would have been interested to get a bit more backstory to see what it really was that made him lose it... maybe the story about his dad cutting up his face was true... but maybe it was something else.

I couldn't help but think of Jack Nicholson though... it made me want to watch the first movie again. Maybe it's just because i watch a lot of bball and I see him all the time whenever the Lakers are on.

Sinistron · 08/25/2008, 03:51 PM

Joker really wasn't that interesting- they tried to make it look in the movie like Batman never faced anyone like that before- like Joker was some representative of chaos (had everything pretty planned out for an agent of chaos, no?) who wanted to burn the whole city down- which if you think about it isn't all that different from Ra's al Ghul's aims in the previous movie. They both wanted the entire city to go mad and they both dealt in everything-is-not-what-it-seems tactics. If anything Ra's al Ghul's plan was better than joker's and if carried through successfully would've be the cause for more madness and chaos than joker's plot.

guyjin · 08/25/2008, 04:16 PM

Quote from: Sinistron on 08/25/2008, 03:51 PMJoker really wasn't that interesting- they tried to make it look in the movie like Batman never faced anyone like that before- like Joker was some representative of chaos (had everything pretty planned out for an agent of chaos, no?)

Yes, but given that the agent of order (batman) is a vigilantie, it balances.

Ceti Alpha · 08/26/2008, 11:39 AM

Quote from: Sinistron on 08/25/2008, 03:51 PMJoker really wasn't that interesting- they tried to make it look in the movie like Batman never faced anyone like that before- like Joker was some representative of chaos (had everything pretty planned out for an agent of chaos, no?) who wanted to burn the whole city down- which if you think about it isn't all that different from Ra's al Ghul's aims in the previous movie. They both wanted the entire city to go mad and they both dealt in everything-is-not-what-it-seems tactics. If anything Ra's al Ghul's plan was better than joker's and if carried through successfully would've be the cause for more madness and chaos than joker's plot.

That's a good point Sin. I guess I felt that there was more at stake in the first movie.

Joe Redifer · 08/26/2008, 07:04 PM

So why didn't anyone complain about Bats' growling voice in Batman Begins? Why did they wait until the Dark Knight to bring it up?

Ceti Alpha · 08/26/2008, 09:59 PM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 08/26/2008, 07:04 PMSo why didn't anyone complain about Bats' growling voice in Batman Begins? Why did they wait until the Dark Knight to bring it up?

I don't know. I'll have to watch Begins again, but I just don't remember it being quite so over-the-top. It could also be that Batman didn't appear until well into the movie.