MSR *WILL* be finished, come hell or high water... hell more likely.

[meka]

I prefer Golvellious Valley of Doom to any zelda or neutopia game. It's similar with the overhead view, but it has side-scrolling and top-down view scrolling elements to it, if a part 2 would come out like they promised, I would pay silly money for it.

[Arkhan Asylum]

I prefer Golvellious Valley of Doom to any zelda or neutopia game. It's similar with the overhead view, but it has side-scrolling and top-down view scrolling elements to it, if a part 2 would come out like they promised, I would pay silly money for it.

nevermind I misread that. Im dumb

[VestCunt]

Going back to the copyright stuff, I'll add my name to those saying Komani could totally sue the pants off Frozen Utopia over Neutopia 3.  Is it likely?  Maybe not, but it's one hell of a risk.

I'm no expert, but I've read a few books, registered a few copyrights, and I took a music business class, and as far as I can tell, you can claim Fair Use, or non-competition, or non-profit or point to your original code or anything you like, but the laws in this country come down to how good your lawyers are and you'll never be able to outspend a big corporation.

Corporations protect their assets.  Period.  Even semi-popular, abondonware video game franchises of questionable worth.  No one worries about being a "laughing stock."  Remember that media companies relentlessly sue the pants off of penniless, bit-torrent-pirating college students left and right, PR be damned.  These days the corporations even go after the publishers, like wikileaks and megaupload and trying to pass laws to hold social networking sites accountable for whatever users post.

Random facts to consider...
* Negative Land was utterly ruined financially for years because they named an album "U2."  They didn't rip off or parody any of U2's music or lyrics.  They tried to justify the title with a prominent picture of the Russian "U2" spy plane on the cover, to no avail.  They got fucking hosed.
* There was a punk band called Assembly of God.  They released small runs of 7" records on no-name, underground labels. The guys in the band were smart, well-read, educated, and as anti-authority and anti-religious as they come, but when they got a C&D from the church, they didn't try their luck, they changed their name the next week.
* Enix didn't even try to call their games "Dragon Quest" in the Eighties because TSR had a tabletop game of the same name.
* Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro owns tons of old P&P RPG settings and absolutely nobody has even gotten away with publishing any references to them.  Gary Gygax could never again write make write about his Greyhawk setting after being driven from the company.  Designer James M Ward started a little company in later years and had to destroy stock for making a single reference to his old character Drawmij - his name spelled backward!  Heck, fans used to get hosed for even posting material online.

[OldRover]

Don't care anyway... I've already dropped the project.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Wizards fuckin ruined D&D so bad.  They're idiots.  They even messed up the games on the PC.

The other thing worth noting is that when you have a trademark/copyright, it's your duty to defend it.  You're obligated to it.

[jlued686]

Don't care anyway... I've already dropped the project.

That was a joke...right?

[Mishran]

Don't care anyway... I've already dropped the project.

That was a joke...right?

Its missing from the projects section of Frozen Utopia... so perhaps he's not.

[NecroPhile]

Don't care anyway... I've already dropped the project.

Well that's.... ghey.

[Mathius]

I wouldn't drop it, Rove. Do what Sunteam suggested and slightly change the name to Newtopia or something similar.

[OldRover]

All or nothing, and I won't be intimidated by corporate slimeballs. We can just make a game in the same genre, but have nothing to do with Neutopia at all. Of course, since we already have many other projects to do first, such a thing is shoved so far back in the queue now that there's no point in announcing any new plans.

[jlued686]

First of all, let me say that I'm really on your side on this and want the game to be made. I'm a huge Neutopia fan, and the thought of playing a third game really gives me a nerd chubby.

However, I don't think it's a "corporate slimeball" thing if they were to say, "Hey Mr. Whoever-the-Hell-You-Are, we own that property and don't want you to make a new game using our copyrighted material as the source." In fact, I think it's perfectly reasonable; especially since they are still most likely making money off it via the Virtual Console and PlayStation Network (and probably the 3DS VC soon as well), so it's not like it's abandonware.

I'm just saying that I don't think they could be considered the bad guys if they were to issue a C&D. Party poopers, yes. Out of line, or "slimeballs", no.

[Arkhan Asylum]

I'm just saying that I don't think they could be considered the bad guys if they were to issue a C&D. Party poopers, yes. Out of line, or "slimeballs", no.

They're just doing what they're obligated to do.  You get copyright/trademarks, it's your job to protect whatever it is you registered. 

[RegalSin]

Neutopia was a great and reasonable game. Zelda focused on Conan, type world, while Neutopia focused primarly on Rome/Greece. Their has been tons of Zelda type games, okay. I am just sick of Nintendo. They took everything good and flipped it up. The Zelda games are still great to play, I just do not like

Links hair,
his pants,
Ganon's figure.
The new forces of evils

The next Zelda game should have continued after the Island Dreamy vacation Zelda. Where links finds his lost love "Marina". Instead Nintendo decided to throw her and Zelda out the window and recycle the ending from Zelda:MM With a wedding. Also the whole dog thing is dumb, because of the bunny thing. They try and make Link image all bad arse.

So far I count

Zelda OOT
Zelda LTTP
Zelda 1
Zelda 2
Zelda DIV

Every other Zelda is rehashed mockery in the whole series. The Zelda WW for the GCN had great ideas, but they could have just continued from the GB ( DIV ) and recolored his pants cinnoman brown, and his hair orange with a little more color in his skin. Otherwise Zelda WW was a huge waste of time.

[OldRover]

Back on topic now...

Nationwide is still bitching about track 2, because they still haven't gotten it through their heads that track 2 is DATA and not AUDIO. So we're still not even past the glass mastering phase yet. GRR.

[nat]

No I mean Wolfenstein 3D because it is generally credited with creating the genre proper and the basic archetype upon which subsequent titles were based and I agree that zelda was not the best game.

If you really want to get technical about it, id Software's Catacomb 3D series (of which the Wolf 3D engine is based) created the genre a few years before Wolf3D. Like Arkhan said though, it was all done by the same company. Wolf just got lots more exposure since apparently people enjoy killing Nazis over killing orcs and goblins.

[Keranu]

To get even more technical, Spasim is argueably the earliest FPS, and had 32 player network support all the way back 1974! Xbox Live eat your heart out.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Wolf3D and Catacomb3D use almost the same engine, too.


too bad Carmack never got ahold of a PCE.   I bet he'd have figured out awesome shit for it.

[nat]

Wolf3D and Catacomb3D use almost the same engine, too.

Yeah, I think I read somewhere at some point that the engines are basically identical. Very little, if anything, was changed. Wolf3D just runs in 256 color mode, while Catacomb runs in 16.

[esteban]

Wolf3D and Catacomb3D use almost the same engine, too.


too bad Carmack never got ahold of a PCE.  I bet he'd have figured out awesome shit for it.

Be careful what you wish for...

[Arkhan Asylum]

Yeah, I think I read somewhere at some point that the engines are basically identical. Very little, if anything, was changed. Wolf3D just runs in 256 color mode, while Catacomb runs in 16.

Pretty much.   Wolf3D just takes advantage of the wonders of VGA, and has some other shit Catacomb doesn't, since Carmack basically just improved everything.

Then he scrapped it all and wrote Doom's engine, and changed Earth as we know it, lol.

[Mishran]

Except Wolf3D was meant to be so much more than it is now. Ducking, crawling, sneaking, dragging and hiding bodies... Its a pale comparison to what it's meant to be. Game is kickass regardless though.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Except Wolf3D was meant to be so much more than it is now. Ducking, crawling, sneaking, dragging and hiding bodies... Its a pale comparison to what it's meant to be. Game is kickass regardless though.

Thats because Carmack put all that crap into Wolf3D and Romero went "THIS IS LAME."  because all that shit detracted from the action of the game.

TBH, if Wolf3D had all that stupid shit in it, the game would suck.

It only worked in Wolfenstein because that game was overhead and a bit less action, more stealth.

[Keranu]

Production on MSR has resumed! No new expected time frame has been set, but it should finish within the next two weeks.

[ParanoiaDragon]

2 weeks?!  But I want it NOWWWW!  Wow, didn't think it'd get pushed back that much due to their stupidity

[DHG Hunter]

I enjoyed playing MSR and Jungle Bros. at the MGC this past weekend.  I'll put an order in for a copy of MSR in the near future. 

We ended up setting it up inside of the DHG Room for the second half of Saturday rather than setting it up outside in the Jagfest area.  In essence, what happened is that we ran out of composite-input TV's which was a real shock.  In the end, however, it probably worked out nicer to have it in the DHG Room rather than out in some random spot in the hallway.  I know a lot of people passed by it in the DHG Room and played it, with one person even saying they ordered it right there on their phone once they saw it and read your flyer.

Let me know if you'd like to do something like this again in the future.  With more time and someone from Frozen Utopia on hand, I think we could do even more with this at a future MGC.

Later.

[incrediblehark]

Sounds like MGC was a success!

[Keranu]

I enjoyed playing MSR and Jungle Bros. at the MGC this past weekend.  I'll put an order in for a copy of MSR in the near future. 

We ended up setting it up inside of the DHG Room for the second half of Saturday rather than setting it up outside in the Jagfest area.  In essence, what happened is that we ran out of composite-input TV's which was a real shock.  In the end, however, it probably worked out nicer to have it in the DHG Room rather than out in some random spot in the hallway.  I know a lot of people passed by it in the DHG Room and played it, with one person even saying they ordered it right there on their phone once they saw it and read your flyer.

Let me know if you'd like to do something like this again in the future.  With more time and someone from Frozen Utopia on hand, I think we could do even more with this at a future MGC.

Later.

That's awesome! It's a good thing we designed that flyer!

We'll definitely have to get something going again next year.

[esteban]

That's awesome! It's a good thing we designed that flyer!

We'll definitely have to get something going again next year.

That would be awesome. MSR will probably be available in time for next year's MGC. 

Just kidding!

[OldRover]

The way things are looking... I dunno. Read the Facebook page for an update.

[esteban]

The way things are looking... I dunno. Read the Facebook page for an update.

Crap, you want me to actually create an account at Facebook? I guess this was inevitable...

I'm serious. 

[roflmao]

Crap, you want me to actually create an account at Facebook? I guess this was inevitable...

I'm serious. 

Don't do it.  This is what their FB account reads:

"We've heard from the manufacturer again... the glass mastering facility's software is being a royal pain in the ass and won't produce the stamper. So we are no closer to having MSR in our hands now than we were before."

[OldRover]

http://www.facebook.com/FrozenUtopia

[Bernie]

I mean damn....

[nat]

I mean, what's the problem? Isn't this the same company that Arkhan used to press Insanity? What's the deal? They got someone new manning the controls?

[Keranu]

They haven't been very specific, this is what the replicators have told our project manager:

"So we've gone forward to make the stamper based on this instruction, however we keep getting failure messages that will not allow the stamper to cut correctly.
In short, the errors on the master will not allow for replication.
So we'll need a new master with the error corrected."

They didn't say what the errors were, I'm assuming the data track "buzz." I don't know why MSR is running into these trivial problems when Insanity went through the same company just fine.

[OldRover]

The truly stupid part is that there are no errors on the master. If I send them new masters, it will have the exact same data and the exact same issue.

[esteban]

Crap, you want me to actually create an account at Facebook? I guess this was inevitable...

I'm serious. 

Don't do it.  This is what their FB account reads:

"We've heard from the manufacturer again... the glass mastering facility's software is being a royal pain in the ass and won't produce the stamper. So we are no closer to having MSR in our hands now than we were before."

Ahhh, I sadly succumbed to the Great Beast and created a Facebook account. TurboStar's gallery of MGC 2012 photos is the first and only thing I have ever done on Facebook. Ha!

Anyway, to counteract some of the somber news about replicating the discs... here's one of JoshTurboTrollX-16's photos from MGC 2012:
 

[incrediblehark]

So close! yet so far away... 

[nat]

They haven't been very specific, this is what the replicators have told our project manager:

"So we've gone forward to make the stamper based on this instruction, however we keep getting failure messages that will not allow the stamper to cut correctly.
In short, the errors on the master will not allow for replication.
So we'll need a new master with the error corrected."

They didn't say what the errors were, I'm assuming the data track "buzz." I don't know why MSR is running into these trivial problems when Insanity went through the same company just fine.

I was partially joking about "someone new" taking on the MSR project at their plant, but I'm also partially serious. It really sounds like whoever is handling your disc down there doesn't know his/her ass from their elbow.

It's like calling tech support for anything. There's a 50% chance you'll get the guy who has been around for 15 years and knows his shit, and then there's a 50% chance you'll get some yokel in an out-sourced call center that reads down a script.

In my best east Indian accent-
"I'm sorry sir, would you just try rebooting the system?"

[Keranu]

I've thought about switching pressing plants, we'll consider it if Nationwide Disc continues to not work out for us. I just hope we can get a refund if that's the case.

[OldRover]

Might consider a local place here... all of the ones here on the island use Mirror Image for glass mastering, who I am pretty sure can do the job.

[OldRover]

Unfortunately, due to multiple issues with having a new master made, we have decided to cancel the manufacture of the game and simply release it to the public. It was a difficult decision to make, but there have just been way too many issues and stumbling blocks involved.

The issue comes from the fact that modern standards do not co-exist with the format that the PC Engine used. While the hardware itself is perfectly happy with most any configuration, the mastering software needs it to be in MODE1/2352 format, and the closest we can get is MODE2/2353, which is incorrect.

So anyway... we've released it for free on our website. The download contains a decoder script for the compressed audio, as well as insert art so you can make a legitimate-looking CD case for yourself.

wayback.frozenutopia.com

[Charles MacDonald]

Very cool! Thanks for sharing this game with the rest of the world.

Sorry to hear about the disc pressing issues. But MSR plays fine on a CD-R on my Turbo Duo at least, so I'm quite happy.

I'm only about 15 minutes in, but I've got to say it was definitely worth the wait! Kudos to everyone involved.

[nectarsis]

Unfortunately, due to multiple issues with having a new master made, we have decided to cancel the manufacture of the game and simply release it to the public. It was a difficult decision to make, but there have just been way too many issues and stumbling blocks involved.

The issue comes from the fact that modern standards do not co-exist with the format that the PC Engine used. While the hardware itself is perfectly happy with most any configuration, the mastering software needs it to be in MODE1/2352 format, and the closest we can get is MODE2/2353, which is incorrect.

So anyway... we've released it for free on our website. The download contains a decoder script for the compressed audio, as well as insert art so you can make a legitimate-looking CD case for yourself.

wayback.frozenutopia.com

Wasn't this the same place Ark had Insanity pressed at?  What was different that they got his pressed?

[TheClash603]

April Fool's?

[OldRover]

.....

[PCEngineHell]

To be honest Rov, and I like a good a joke as much as anyone, esp on April fools, but this is a shitty joke to pull on your fan base you are trying to build up, let alone to fuck with people who paid you cash in advance already. This clearly is not a legit release of the game, as all the audio tracks I checked are garbage with laughing and shit, and chainsaws, etc, and anyone taking the time to burn it off will be irked to find they wasted time and a disc in doing so. There are better and far wiser ways to promote a project, and this is not one of them.

[nectarsis]

To be honest Rov, and I like a good a joke as anyone, esp on April fools, but this is a shitty joke to pull on your fan base you are trying to build up, let alone to fuck with people who paid you cash in advance already. This clearly is not a legit release of the game, as all the audio tracks are garbage, and anyone taking the time to burn it off will be irked to find they wasted time and a disc in doing so. There are better and far wiser ways to promote a project, and this is not one of them.

maybe they hired NEC America as their marketing agency   

[PCEngineHell]

To be honest Rov, and I like a good a joke as anyone, esp on April fools, but this is a shitty joke to pull on your fan base you are trying to build up, let alone to fuck with people who paid you cash in advance already. This clearly is not a legit release of the game, as all the audio tracks are garbage, and anyone taking the time to burn it off will be irked to find they wasted time and a disc in doing so. There are better and far wiser ways to promote a project, and this is not one of them.

maybe they hired NEC America as their marketing agency   

Yeah honestly I wish you'd never even gave me a link to this garbage. Such a fucking waste of my time checking the audio tracks out, let alone wasting Quoths time after I gave him a link to it.

[OldRover]

Well, since some people have no sense of humor, I've taken it down. I hope you're happy. This was the first time I've ever even attempted an AFD joke, and I thought it came out pretty well. Oh well. Fuck you.