So whats the deal with the arcade card?

Supremo_Lagarto · 11/07/2011, 01:37 AM

My point was that the reason there were no (or very few) Arcade Card games being released, was that the Duo stopped production in 1994.

Quote from: nat on 11/07/2011, 01:07 AMYou might be right that there were no Duos produced after 1994 (I don't have any information either way), but there were certainly arcade card games produced into 1996, so I'm not really sure what you're getting after.

The fact that a handful of obscure titles slipped out past 1994 does not change the fact that software companies were not interested in developing games for a defunct platform. I'm sure we all understand this.

QuoteWhat's silly is claiming that NEC Avenue, a software development team, was responsible for marketing the Duo because the parent company is NEC Home Electronics.

Anyone who thinks I claimed this has misunderstood me. "Bankrupt" was the wrong term for me to use as it implies insolvency and a subdivision cannot be fiscally insolvent. I should have simply said they were not making enough money, so the brand was retired and the resources and personnel were used elsewhere.

QuoteYour 6 button pad doesn't have "NEC Avenue" written on it, it has "Avenue Pad 6" written on it.

Actually it has the NEC Avenue brand logo on it, because they produced and marketed it. It is also on the box. This is not difficult to verify. However, it does also say Avenue Pad 6.

QuoteYes, what is your point? You've stated NEC Avenue was responsible for marketing the Duo, and that they went "bankrupt" in 1994 thus ceasing production of the Duo and arcade card games alike.

I never said they marketed the Duo. I said they marketed a lot of the later products. When the Duo was no longer being produced, NEC Avenue was functionally dissolved or reorganized into a completely different subdivision. After that point there was little to no more support for Arcade Card Products.

Quote...is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read.

You are the only one inventing "truth" here, unfortunately.

When one engages in a civil discussion, one usually avoids statements of this nature as they are unnecessary.

Edmond Dantes · 11/07/2011, 01:47 AM

Quote from: Supremo_Lagarto on 11/07/2011, 12:38 AMI like like a company and its products and wish things had been different, but I can't change history to support my bias.

Sure we can! The Engine never died! NEC lives on! The only reason we haven't seen any new games since then is because of a terrorist plot! That's it, all the new Duo games are locked up in a secret underground base somewhere, and we have to rescue them!

The Playstation is a lie!

SignOfZeta · 11/07/2011, 04:06 AM

Quote from: Supremo_Lagarto on 11/07/2011, 01:37 AMMy point was that the reason there were no (or very few) Arcade Card games being released, was that the Duo stopped production in 1994.

As I said before there were dozens of PCE games released after 1994. Many of them were published by NEC themselves.

Bazaaru de Gozaaru no Geemu de Gozaaru, 1996
Dead of the Brain 1 & 2, 1999
Tekipaki Wakin - Love, 1997
Madou Monogatari, 1996
De Ja, 1996
Go! Go! Birdie Chance, 1996
Puyo Puyo CD 2, 1996
Doukyūsei, 1995
Linda 3, 1995
Private Eye Doll, 1995

There are more.

My point is that the Arcade Card fell out of popularity all on its own. It had zero to do with the PC Engine reaching EOL. Also, NEC Avenue/Interchannel/Home Electronics weren't needed to make an Arcade Card game anyway. See: Sapphire, 1995. Of the 60 or so games released after 1994, almost none of them are ACDs. They could have been, but they aren't. The reason for this is that most people wouldn't have been able to appreciate it, and the sales would have suffered. It has nothing to do with NEC. The SCD format was simply the most popular. Its the same reason Bomberman '94 and Bonk 3 were standard HuCards instead of Supergrafx HuCards. The PC Engine has more than one evolutionary dead end. (Part of the charm, IMO)

So your basic statement, that ACD games stopped coming because some specific group within NEC was dissolved or that production of new PCE consoles had ended is immaterial. Its not uncommon at all to continued to make games after a system goes out of production. Sega did it with the DC (Puyo Puyo 4, Sakura Wars 4) Nintendo did it with the FC (those crazy cart releases of FD games in the 90s) SNK did with the Neo Geo big time. I'm not sure how many years the AES was out of production when Samshow V Special was released. NEC did it with the Duo, see: Dead of the Brain, 1999, 5 years after (according to you) Duo production had stopped.

Nazi NecroPhile · 11/07/2011, 01:21 PM

NEC Avenue and NEC Interchannel were unrelated and the PC-FX wasn't a console?!? Man, where do these people come from?

BigusSchmuck · 11/07/2011, 06:19 PM

QuoteNEC Avenue and NEC Interchannel were unrelated and the PC-FX wasn't a console?!? Man, where do these people come from?

From the depths of their nerd caves, thats where (mine so happens to be the phone room at work). ^^ Joking aside...

QuoteThe Arcade Card was still limited by the capabilities of the Duo, which was at heart an 8-bit system.

That didn't stop the Playdia, it too was a 8 bit system. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playdia

OldRover · 11/07/2011, 06:58 PM

Are we still on the bit war bullshit? That crap's been debunked to the point of ad nauseum ages ago.

BigusSchmuck · 11/07/2011, 07:07 PM

QuoteAre we still on the bit war bullshit? That crap's been debunked to the point of ad nauseum ages ago.

Hence my Playdia reference. It is a tired argument, just like the SNES vs Genesis arguments back in the day.

SignOfZeta · 11/07/2011, 10:22 PM

Why would anyone mention the Playdia as a pro-8-bit factoid? The thing was a collossal flop.

rag-time4 · 11/07/2011, 11:35 PM

Quote from: Edmond Dantes on 11/03/2011, 12:11 AMI dunno about World Heroes, but I'm able to compare Fatal Fury 2 to the version on the Playstation 2's Battle Archives release.

The only difference so far is that the shadows flicker and there are load times. Oh, and you have to play with a PC Engine controller. That's it. It seems to be a solid port.

There is one major difference between the pce ACD port of fatal fury 2 and the neo geo version that i would like to point out to my Irem-loving friend, which is the redbook audio of the ACD version. To my fanboy ears, the music of teh ACD fatal fury 2 is heaven! Even ACD fatal fury special is a step down! The only tune i like better in the original neo geo version is joe higashi's stage.

Edmond Dantes · 11/10/2011, 01:18 PM

If I may revive this topic real quick, I always wondered something:

Why are there two versions of the Arcade Card? Is there even really a difference? Would anything bad happen if I tried to plug the Duo model into a briefcase?

SignOfZeta · 11/10/2011, 01:33 PM

The easy way to explain it is to say that the Pro version is for machines that don't have the Super System Card built in and the Duo version is for the systems that do (the Duos, Laseractive, and the Super CDROM2).

If you put the Pro in a Duo system it behaves the same as a Duo card since it just replaces the existing System 3.0. If you put a Duo AC in a "core" system it won't boot since there isn't any System on it.

GohanX · 11/10/2011, 01:44 PM

Quote from: rag-time4 on 11/07/2011, 11:35 PMThere is one major difference between the pce ACD port of fatal fury 2 and the neo geo version that i would like to point out to my Irem-loving friend, which is the redbook audio of the ACD version. To my fanboy ears, the music of teh ACD fatal fury 2 is heaven! Even ACD fatal fury special is a step down! The only tune i like better in the original neo geo version is joe higashi's stage.

Does anyone know if this is the same as the CD tunes on the Fatal Fury 2 Neo CD? That music really is fantastic, and I actually prefer the CD version because of it despite the loading.

CrackTiger · 11/10/2011, 01:50 PM

The Sega-CD, 32X carts and 32X CDs were all technically superior to Genesis cart games, but Genesis carts were more popular, so publishers stuck with them for most projects. It's the same reason why HuCards got mostly smaller scale games and that the SuperGrafx and ACD didn't take over: the SCD format was far more popular and more than good enough.

Quote from: Edmond Dantes on 11/10/2011, 01:18 PMIf I may revive this topic real quick, I always wondered something:

Why are there two versions of the Arcade Card? Is there even really a difference? Would anything bad happen if I tried to plug the Duo model into a briefcase?

The Arcade Card Pro contains both the hardware and BIOS upgrade that makes the PC Engine more powerfully 8-bit. The Arcade Card Duo only contains the major hafdware upgrades and the BIOS upgrades are magically transferred by some as of yet undiscovered method.

BigusSchmuck · 11/22/2011, 11:22 PM

Well, finally got my arcade card a few days ago, got to hand it to them, its pretty sweet. Now to find a decent 6 button controller without losing an arm or a leg.

rag-time4 · 12/01/2011, 10:32 PM

Quote from: JKM on 11/10/2011, 01:44 PM
Quote from: rag-time4 on 11/07/2011, 11:35 PMThere is one major difference between the pce ACD port of fatal fury 2 and the neo geo version that i would like to point out to my Irem-loving friend, which is the redbook audio of the ACD version. To my fanboy ears, the music of teh ACD fatal fury 2 is heaven! Even ACD fatal fury special is a step down! The only tune i like better in the original neo geo version is joe higashi's stage.
Does anyone know if this is the same as the CD tunes on the Fatal Fury 2 Neo CD? That music really is fantastic, and I actually prefer the CD version because of it despite the loading.

The music of teh ACD fatal fury is a unique rendition probably not heard anywhere else, and definitely different from the Neo CD version.

You will notice that on ACD fatal fury 2, the travel music and certain others are chip tunes, whereas theyre redbook on Neo CD.

shubibiman · 12/02/2011, 01:33 PM

NEC Avenue existed even before the PCE existed as it was not only a game editor but also Video and music editor, as Asmik, Pack In Video and some others were.

Back to the point : the reason why the Arcade card didn't have more specific games is the same reason as to why the Supergrafx didn't get many games either :
it was better for editors to develop games for a machine like a Duo than to limit it's selling possibilities to the few owners of the expensive Arcade card.

Nazi NecroPhile · 12/02/2011, 01:49 PM

Exactly, shubi. Plus not that many game types desperately need the extra memory anyway; other than fighters and extra fancy cinemas, the SuperCD format was more than enough to compete (i.e. - Dracula X).

nat · 12/03/2011, 12:39 AM

Wait, I thought the Arcade Card didn't have any games because they stopped making them in 1994, at the same time NEC Avenue stopped making the Duo?

SignOfZeta · 12/03/2011, 03:33 AM

Heh, I guess we have to be realistic about what we are asking of developers. If they make their game Arcade Card requisite we are basically saying they need to fill 8x as much RAM with 8x as much shit, sell it to 1/8 as many people and somehow stay in business selling the games for the same price as a non-AC game.

This is the reason most system add-ons flop. Its amazing the PCE actually had two very successful ones (the CDROM2 and the Super System Card) before finally hitting a wall.

Supremo_Lagarto · 12/03/2011, 11:54 PM

My whole point was that development stopped on the Arcade Card games because the Duo was no longer in production as of 1994. Whether or not NEC Avenue is exactly the same as NEC Interchannel and the existence of the PCFX system is immaterial. Developers were not going to create a significant number of titles for a platform that was no longer being manufactured. It is a very simple point.

That doesn't mean there were absolutely NO GAMES made for the arcade card (or the Duo) after that point, it means there were not a significant amount.

   Battlefield '94 In Super Battle Dream
   Fire Pro Female Wrestling
   Garou Densetsu 2 (Fatal Fury 2)
   Garou Densetsu Special (Fatal Fury Special)
   Ginga Fukei Densetsu Sapphire
   Jong Shin Densetsu
   Kabuki Itouryodan
   Mad Stalker Full Metal Force
   Madou Monogatari I Honou no Sotsuenji
   Ryuuko No Ken (Art of Fighting)
   Strider Hiryuu
   World Heroes 2

Most of these were released right around 1993 or 1994. The Duo stopped being manufactures in Japan around 1994.

Quote from: guest on 11/07/2011, 01:21 PMNEC Avenue and NEC Interchannel were unrelated and the PC-FX wasn't a console?!? Man, where do these people come from?

That is not remotely similar to what I was saying and is taken completely out of context.

Before we chime in and rag on what person A supposedly said about something, look at what person A actually wrote and not what person B says that person A wrote.

And yes, I do revise my posts for punctuation, grammar, or other writing mistakes. That doesn't mean I'm being deceptive or changing the substance of what I've said after I have said it. It means that I am trying to be understood in polite conversation.

Peace everybody.

jlued686 · 12/05/2011, 12:40 PM

I'm glad this came up as I'm hoping to buy a briefcase unit soon. If I buy the Arcade Card Pro, do I still need a system card for SCDs, or does the Pro cover that?

SignOfZeta · 12/05/2011, 01:14 PM

The Pro does everything.

jlued686 · 12/05/2011, 01:20 PM

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 12/05/2011, 01:14 PMThe Pro does everything.

Cool, thanks.

Nazi NecroPhile · 12/05/2011, 04:50 PM

Quote from: Supremo_Lagarto on 12/03/2011, 11:54 PMMy whole point was that development stopped on the Arcade Card games because the Duo was no longer in production as of 1994. Whether or not NEC Avenue is exactly the same as NEC Interchannel and the existence of the PCFX system is immaterial. Developers were not going to create a significant number of titles for a platform that was no longer being manufactured. It is a very simple point.

I don't think it's that simple. If it is, then please explain why they continued to make so many SuperCD games after ceasing Duo production (50 to 100+ titles depending on the exact cut off date).

Quote from: Supremo_Lagarto on 12/03/2011, 11:54 PMThat is not remotely similar to what I was saying and is taken completely out of context.

Before we chime in and rag on what person A supposedly said about something, look at what person A actually wrote and not what person B says that person A wrote.

Oh, but that's exactly what you intimated. Here's what you said about NEC Avenue:

Quote from: Supremo_Lagarto on 11/06/2011, 10:06 PMThe division of NEC that sold the Duo basically went bankrupt shortly after the Arcade card was released. That is why there were no more games for it. End of story.

... and later:

Quote from: Supremo_Lagarto on 11/06/2011, 10:06 PMI didn't say NEC went bankrupt, I said a small DIVISION of NEC (NEC Avenue).

So if NEC Avenue was bankrupt/dissolved in '94, simple logic dictates that it couldn't possibly be the same company as (or a part of) the later formed NEC Interchannel. Not that it really matters - the fact remains that NEC Avenue was never responsible for the Duo and the brand soldiered on through the end of '96 (Madou Monogatari on the PCE) and into '97 with a couple PC-FX titles anyway.

Speaking of the PC-FX, here's your exact words regarding it as a console:

Quote from: Supremo_Lagarto on 11/07/2011, 12:38 AMThe PCFX 32-bit platform was not a console in the traditional sense; it was more of an attempt to create a multimedia center or computer. It didn't really fit into either category.

... which is absolutely ridiculous. The only multimedia capabilities it has are the ability to play music CDs and photo CDs, traits shared with the Saturn, PlayStation, and 3DO (all decidedly consoles).

Quote from: Supremo_Lagarto on 12/03/2011, 11:54 PMAnd yes, I do revise my posts for punctuation, grammar, or other writing mistakes. That doesn't mean I'm being deceptive or changing the substance of what I've said after I have said it. It means that I am trying to be understood in polite conversation.

That's why you've removed the comment about how 'They claim these flash cards to work just like real hucards. They lied.', and added that it's just a case of 'defective memory'. Nope, no substantive changes there, just 30+ updates and spelling goof fixes.

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 12/05/2011, 01:14 PMThe Pro does everything.

Except for the Games Express games, but those kinda suck and should come with the system card included anyway.

SignOfZeta · 12/05/2011, 09:37 PM

Games Express shit doesn't count. The AC plays everything that is official (minus Altered Beast CD, which no sane person would actually want to play anyway).

Edmond Dantes · 12/06/2011, 07:33 AM

What is Games Express?

Nazi NecroPhile · 12/06/2011, 10:13 AM

Quote from: Edmond Dantes on 12/06/2011, 07:33 AMWhat is Games Express?

A maker of unlicensed games featuring boobies, such as Strip Fighter II and Hi Leg Fantasy (a naughty remake of Final Fantasy).

sheath · 12/07/2011, 06:56 PM

Hmm, is that remake any good or is it as bad as Strip Fighter?

CrackTiger · 12/07/2011, 09:38 PM

Quote from: sheath on 12/07/2011, 06:56 PMHmm, is that remake any good or is it as bad as Strip Fighter?

Strip Fighter II is one of their more polished titles. I haven't played through any of them, but Lady Sword seems alright to me.

T2KFreeker · 12/07/2011, 10:23 PM

After actually getting the Arcade Card now, I can confirm that it is bad ass. Sapphire alone is worth it!

A_Locomotive · 12/08/2011, 12:06 AM

Quote from: T2KFreeker on 12/07/2011, 10:23 PMAfter actually getting the Arcade Card now, I can confirm that it is bad ass. Sapphire alone is worth it!

What else do you have that makes use of it?

T2KFreeker · 12/08/2011, 04:03 AM

Quote from: A_Locomotive on 12/08/2011, 12:06 AM
Quote from: T2KFreeker on 12/07/2011, 10:23 PMAfter actually getting the Arcade Card now, I can confirm that it is bad ass. Sapphire alone is worth it!
What else do you have that makes use of it?

I have Kabuki Clash, Fatal Fury 2, and Fatal Fury Special at this point so far.

Chuplayer · 12/15/2011, 08:05 PM

Quote from: Edmond Dantes on 11/03/2011, 04:56 AMYeah, but wasn't the Super Famicom port exceedingly bad? (Fatal Fury 2)

I don't know about the SFC port of Fatal Fury 2, but I have the US SNES port of Fatal Fury Special, and it is a great port. It's more balanced, too. Terry isn't useless at all.

Neo Rasa · 12/15/2011, 08:21 PM

It's true, the US version of SNES Fatal Fury Special was re-balanced and many glitches in the Japanese game were removed too. Fatal Fury 2 isn't really worth owning on SNES though it is notable for keeping almost all of the voice overs (though with much lower quality sampling than the Neo Geo of course).

The PCE CD FFS is the best though. The sprites are slightly smaller than the Neo Geo version and the backgrounds are SLIGHTLY less detailed but other than that the controls and speed are outstanding, one of the best fighting game ports ever.

I like Art of Fighting on the PCE CD much more than the SNES/Genesis ports as well. Unlike those the NEC system has some rad trickery that imitates the zooming in and out of the arcade version. Also like Fatal Fury Special ALL the animation is there from the arcade version. Great job.

Lady Sword...ugh. It's not an AWFUL game but it's just you and the monsters. There are people to talk to but you'll get sick of fighting monsters about half and hour in.

T2KFreeker · 12/15/2011, 08:37 PM

Quote from: Neo Rasa on 12/15/2011, 08:21 PMIt's true, the US version of SNES Fatal Fury Special was re-balanced and many glitches in the Japanese game were removed too. Fatal Fury 2 isn't really worth owning on SNES though it is notable for keeping almost all of the voice overs (though with much lower quality sampling than the Neo Geo of course).

The PCE CD FFS is the best though. The sprites are slightly smaller than the Neo Geo version and the backgrounds are SLIGHTLY less detailed but other than that the controls and speed are outstanding, one of the best fighting game ports ever.

I like Art of Fighting on the PCE CD much more than the SNES/Genesis ports as well. Unlike those the NEC system has some rad trickery that imitates the zooming in and out of the arcade version. Also like Fatal Fury Special ALL the animation is there from the arcade version. Great job.

Lady Sword...ugh. It's not an AWFUL game but it's just you and the monsters. There are people to talk to but you'll get sick of fighting monsters about half and hour in.

What is this Lady Sword you speak of?

Chuplayer · 12/15/2011, 08:38 PM

Quote from: Neo Rasa on 12/15/2011, 08:21 PMIt's true, the US version of SNES Fatal Fury Special was re-balanced and many glitches in the Japanese game were removed too.

Really? It's no wonder I liked it so much.

I got the XBLA version of Fatal Fury Special a few years ago, and it was so frustrating to play as my favorite character, Terry, and get my buns handed to me.

Neo Rasa · 12/15/2011, 08:49 PM

Quote from: T2KFreeker on 12/15/2011, 08:37 PMWhat is this Lady Sword you speak of?

It's like Arcana but remove all the character classes and party dynamics and replace with boobs and ultra-violence.

Now, this isn't necessarily a bad idea for a game, but the game is just boring as hell without party members or a variety of weapons and equipment to play around with:

the entire game is this forever.

Chuplayer the worst thing about those Neo Geo releases on XBLA was the laaaaag ugh.

Also getting hate mail and a lot of ragequits cause I'd play Geese and just jump up and fire Shippukens a lot. I mean if someone's going to stand on the far side of the screen and shoot fireballs straight ahead over and over and never even block or sidestep what do they expect?

T2KFreeker · 12/15/2011, 09:08 PM

I need a list of all the Arcade Card games that released. I am curious.

Chuplayer · 12/15/2011, 09:11 PM

Quote from: T2KFreeker on 12/15/2011, 09:08 PMI need a list of all the Arcade Card games that released. I am curious.

Not sure how accurate or complete this is, but...

http://www.slowdays.org/wiki/List_of_Arcade_Card_PC_Engine_Games

Battlefield '94 In Super Battle Dream
Fire Pro Female Wrestling (WOWOW vs. JWP...)
Garou Densetsu 2 (Fatal Fury 2)
Garou Densetsu Special (Fatal Fury Special)
Ginga Fukei Densetsu Sapphire
Jong Shin Densetsu
Kabuki Itouryodan
Mad Stalker Full Metal Force
Madou Monogatari I Honou no Sotsuenji
Ryuuko No Ken (Art of Fighting)
Strider Hiryuu
World Heroes 2

Nazi NecroPhile · 12/16/2011, 10:44 AM

That's the dirty dozen; there's also another twenty or so titles that don't require an Arcade Card but can use it to improve animation or cut down on loading.

BigusSchmuck · 12/16/2011, 11:07 AM

Like the Lunarish game called Gulliver Boy!

nat · 12/16/2011, 09:22 PM

I already linked to the list on PAGE 3 of this VERY THREAD, but since people can't be bothered to read a thread, let me link to it for you again:

https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=3547.msg51364#msg51364

Maybe I'll get to link to the list again when we reach page 11.

T2KFreeker · 12/16/2011, 09:45 PM

Quote from: nat on 12/16/2011, 09:22 PMI already linked to the list on PAGE 3 of this VERY THREAD, but since people can't be bothered to read a thread, let me link to it for you again:

https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=3547.msg51364#msg51364

Maybe I'll get to link to the list again when we reach page 11.

Sorry?

I did read the thread through from the beginning when I started posting responses. I'll remember this next time I need the list. I appreciate it.

nat · 12/16/2011, 09:50 PM

No problem. My tone wasn't directed at you specifically, it's just as I mentioned in the message on page 3, the "list of arcade card games" seems to be one of those things someone comes along every month or so and asks for. No one ever bothers searching. It was just a little ironic to me it happened twice in the same thread.

T2KFreeker · 12/16/2011, 10:51 PM

Quote from: nat on 12/16/2011, 09:50 PMNo problem. My tone wasn't directed at you specifically, it's just as I mentioned in the message on page 3, the "list of arcade card games" seems to be one of those things someone comes along every month or so and asks for. No one ever bothers searching. It was just a little ironic to me it happened twice in the same thread.

I just basically want the list as I am a new owner of said card. Strider looks like it's going to be a pain in the ass to get too, sadly. Played it back in the day and loved it. The extra levels were cool.