RGB mod an NES2?

[Arkhan Asylum]

I have an NES2, and want it RGB modded.

I hate every other forum.  Does anyone here do it?

[guyjin]

IIRC, it isn't possible. Not unless you have a Famicom Titler to sacrifice; the video chip on every other NES/FC puts out only composite.

[Arkhan Asylum]

IIRC, it isn't possible. Not unless you have a Famicom Titler to sacrifice; the video chip on every other NES/FC puts out only composite.

well, here's the more important question then:  If I run an NES's composite out into an XRGB is it going to look like total dick? lol

[HercTNT]

You need to reroute the secondary plasma coils through the main deflector dish..............and never mind, yea it will look like shit..............

[SignOfZeta]

You can also steal the chip from a Playchoice 10.

And yes, it will look like fucking shit on a XRB through composite.

There are probably some clones than have a usable RGB signal...maybe?

[grahf]

Nah, unfortunately there are no known clones that output RGB.

[DragonmasterDan]

Nah, unfortunately there are no known clones that output RGB.

Pretty much all the clones are using the NES-On-A-Chip architecture and the end result is that they are limited to composite out.

The Playchoice 10 is the only NES variation I'm aware of that can do RGB out.

[Arkhan Asylum]

can a regular toaster NES do it?  I've got that too.. the only probrem is I can't shove my converter in that stupid thing so I can't play any FC games on it.

[DragonmasterDan]

can a regular toaster NES do it?  I've got that too.. the only probrem is I can't shove my converter in that stupid thing so I can't play any FC games on it.

I don't believe it can and properly output the video from the PPU. You can produce RGB video out from a toaster, but you're not getting better video.

Here's an example of a mod that outputs RGB from a toaster, but also screws up the color. http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=1592.0

[Arkhan Asylum]

So, whats the preferred way to put an NES on a 55" LED tv then?

[DragonmasterDan]

So, whats the preferred way to put an NES on a 55" LED tv then?

Assuming your 55 inch LED has composite, composite is your best bet.

[Arkhan Asylum]

So, looks like composite through the XRGB is how Ima roll.

It'll look like crap, but oh well.  lol

[Tatsujin]

It can't be done!
As already stated by others, only a FC titler or playchoice 10 chipset can make the NES/FC output real RGB.
Still if you get hands on a real rare and expensive titler, would you really sacrifice it for a lumpy NES2? Rather than very easy mod it to RGB itself and ues it that way?

[Arkhan Asylum]

Yes, but the thing is I already have an NES2 and a toaster, lol.  I'm lookin for as cheap as possible here.  Maybe I will just AV mod the NES2 and see just how bad the composite is. lol

[SignOfZeta]

I'd just hook up a Mac Mini or a Dreamcast or something else than can run a NES emu to the TV and pretend it was a NES.

[HercTNT]

And i was being a wise guy because i thought arkhan was being sarcastic as well. had no idea he was serious. oops..........

[DragonmasterDan]

Yes, but the thing is I already have an NES2 and a toaster, lol.  I'm lookin for as cheap as possible here.  Maybe I will just AV mod the NES2 and see just how bad the composite is. lol

I have an AV modded NES 2, the composite is as good or slightly better than the toaster. Mine was done by mason sushi.

[Arkhan Asylum]

I'd just hook up a Mac Mini or a Dreamcast or something else than can run a NES emu to the TV and pretend it was a NES.

That doesn't help me very much since I want to be able to use all my saves, and my FDS.

and, HercTNT: Its ok, your post made me laugh.

[HercTNT]

Hey man i try. Jokes on me, i thought you were having fun with them and they were all missing the gag. I thought i would jump in and really turn it up. Turns out i'm the dummy

[Samurai Ghost]

Buy a AV Famicom and a converter to play NES games on it. The composite out isn't too bad.
Here's mine:



Other than that, you could do something like this guy did and fit a mini PC into a toaster with HDMI out:

Yeah, it's emulation so it's a dirty piece shit but if you want high quality output it's pretty much your only option.

Or you could, you know, play your NES on a CRT like god intended. Fuck flatscreen TVs!

[incrediblehark]

if you're going the way of rgb, pick up a vs duck hunt for the ppu, usually cheaper than a playchice-10, and only rgb mod an AV Famicom. If you use any other nes/famicom variant for the rgb you get noticeable jailbars and interference. but not all games are compatible, like just breed, the immortal, felix the cat to name a few.

[Arkhan Asylum]

im trying to avoid buying/importing another system when I already have an NES and an NES2.

and, screw emulating.  I can't use my carts/saves with that.

and, yeah, CRTs are great, when you have the room to set that up.  arcade cabinets take precedence.

[ccovell]

Here ya go:  Composite FC/NES on an X-RGB2+ (LCD monitor)






Compare with RGB screengrabs/CRT shots here:

https://www.chrismcovell.com/gotRGB/rgb_compare.html
https://www.chrismcovell.com/gotRGB/screenshots.html

And... if you have an arcade cab, why aren't you hooking your systems via RGB to that?

[Arkhan Asylum]

Here ya go:  Composite FC/NES on an X-RGB2+ (LCD monitor)

And... if you have an arcade cab, why aren't you hooking your systems via RGB to that?

I guess that is acceptable looking.  the NES is the only console that won't be experiencing RGB.

I don't hook the systems up to an arcade cabinet, because that is impractical. What am I going to do, stand up while playing games, or sit staring up at a Neo Geo cabinet? .. with a bunch of wires and shit dangling out of it? No thanks.

the 55" TV + surround sound setup is already nice and setup with all of my other stuff, with a comfortable chair aimed at it. 

[Samurai Ghost]

As long as there is no lag or ghosting or anything weird graphically, once you are into the game I doubt you'd really notice the difference anyway. And let's be honest, the NES isn't exactly a graphical powerhouse, even compared to other systems available at the time.

[Arkhan Asylum]

As long as there is no lag or ghosting or anything weird graphically, once you are into the game I doubt you'd really notice the difference anyway. And let's be honest, the NES isn't exactly a graphical powerhouse, even compared to other systems available at the time.

that is exactly why I am not that worried about it.  Most NES games look pretty derpy due to color limitations, so oh well. 

The game I am most worried about looking like sloppy cooter is Faxanadu. 

When you use composite in straight on a LCD TV, is it doing anything there that would cause lag, or is it only if you use an XRGB or similar device.

[grahf]

Well, as we all know LCD TVs have incredibly shitty upscalers built in. In addition to the awful video quality, you'll get varying degrees of lag as well. It really depends on the TV.

Micomsoft (The XRGB guys) were using a cool video at their booth when they were showing off the new XRGB Mini. The ring-timer-thing lets you see exactly how far behind each interface is. It would be cool to get ahold of a DVD or something with this on it, and do a side by side comparison with CRT and LCD.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Do these XRGBDoodlerjobbers introduce enough latency to render games unplayable?

[grahf]

In analog mode, no. In digital out, a little lag.
The XRGB-3 has a bit of lag when using the DVI out, but it's not terrible. The Mini has almost no lag. The pic above is a comparison between the two.
I'm not 100% sure about the 1 or 2(+).

[Arkhan Asylum]

In analog mode, no. In digital out, a little lag.
The XRGB-3 has a bit of lag when using the DVI out, but it's not terrible. The Mini has almost no lag. The pic above is a comparison between the two.
I'm not 100% sure about the 1 or 2(+).

Is that framemeister thing any good?  I keep finding those for sale more than I can find a 1 or 2.  

So I won't notice lag if I go RGB in to VGA out? (with appropriate cables)

[Samurai Ghost]

I've never really experienced lag before as I always use CRTs but I think noticeable lag would drive me crazy. I'd rather have slightly crappier video display than a laggy game.

[Arkhan Asylum]

yes.  If the xrgbxrgxrgb is going to make everything play like crap, I don't want to do it.
but they are so recommended by everyone that I can't imagine it being an issue.

[grahf]

It's not.

[Arkhan Asylum]

yay. Now I just need to find one.  

I should've bid 5 more dollars on the xrgb2.  damnit.


by the looks of it, the XRGB Mini isn't a good idea.  It only has HDMI out, I think?

or maybe that is a good thing? 

[grahf]

It's a great thing, if you want to put the picture on an LCD. If you don't, what do you want to play the thing on?

What makes the mini special is that it does analog to digital practically lag free. That's it's big selling point, and why it official name is "Frame Meister". Other affordable analog to digital stuff on the market until now has been either laggy, completely unaffordable, or usually both.

[Arkhan Asylum]

The target monitor is my 55" sony bravia LED tv.

I have a Commodore 1084S-D1, but it looks fine with composite because its a 1084, so I don't bother RGBing with it. (Plus it's the one 1084S model that is apparently a pain in the cock to use RGB on from MSX and PCE).

So, the frame meister would actually be a good idea?  I keep passing on them. 

Does it do good scanlines? Does it have the same kind of connectivity the other XRGBs have?  Is it worth it over an XRGB1 or 2 if I want to use a big LED tv?

I ask too many questions.

[Samurai Ghost]

Nah these are good questions! I don't use a flatscreen myself but a lot of my friends and family only have them. So I was thinking about picking one up for when I play at other people's places or if I ever actually get a flatscreen at some point.

[grahf]

The target monitor is my 55" sony bravia LED tv.
Does it do good scanlines? Does it have the same kind of connectivity the other XRGBs have?  Is it worth it over an XRGB1 or 2 if I want to use a big LED tv?

The Mini does scanlines, but the intensity is currently unadjustable. I don't use them myself, but people say they're "decent". This is something that may be addressed in a future firmware update. Google some screenshots and see what you think.

The mini has inputs for RGB, Composite, S-Video, HDMI and Component (over Japanese D-cable).

As far as I know all the older XRGBs can do VGA output, which may or may not look amazing on your HDTV, and may or may not have a lot of lag. The TV has to convert the analog VGA signal into digital to display it on the panel, and just like composite input, the quality varies by TV. This conversion process is the key point, and this is exactly what the Mini is for. It does all the converting, and lets you feed a digital signal from the HDMI cable right to the LCD with no additional muckery by the TV. (The mini has NO VGA support though, just to note).

The only way you're going to know if VGA input will work for you, is by testing your TV and a CRT monitor side-by-side. If it's not acceptable, you need a Mini. if it is, you can look into any of the older models. It would also be cool to get a hold of a video like the XRGB guys use in order to compare lag.

[GohanX]

If you AV mod a NES2, I should point out that there are two types of mods:

The more common but crappy kind has pretty bad image quality. You see those jailbars and crap when you hook it up through RF? It's worse in composite.

The better type is to essentially hand build the composite video circuit from a toaster model, but it requires a part from a toaster model NES, making it a bit more expensive if you don't have a junk NES motherboard laying around. This produces video identical to the toaster, which (for composite) it pretty darned good. I <3 my AV modded NES2.

Or...just use a toaster and fix it up to run well.

[Arkhan Asylum]

The Mini does scanlines, but the intensity is currently unadjustable. I don't use them myself, but people say they're "decent". This is something that may be addressed in a future firmware update. Google some screenshots and see what you think.

Oh,ok.   I can always get an SLG3000, I think?  or that only works with vga... I forget.

The mini has inputs for RGB, Composite, S-Video, HDMI and Component (over Japanese D-cable).

When you say inputs for RGB, what do you mean exactly.  It looked like a little DIN connector of some sort.  I get the feeling trying to find cables for that to hook things like SMS, Genesis, SNES, and PCe up to it is going to be a pain.

As far as I know all the older XRGBs can do VGA output, which may or may not look amazing on your HDTV, and may or may not have a lot of lag. The TV has to convert the analog VGA signal into digital to display it on the panel, and just like composite input, the quality varies by TV. This conversion process is the key point, and this is exactly what the Mini is for. It does all the converting, and lets you feed a digital signal from the HDMI cable right to the LCD with no additional muckery by the TV. (The mini has NO VGA support though, just to note).

The only way you're going to know if VGA input will work for you, is by testing your TV and a CRT monitor side-by-side. If it's not acceptable, you need a Mini. if it is, you can look into any of the older models. It would also be cool to get a hold of a video like the XRGB guys use in order to compare lag.

Not sure what you mean about testing my TV and a CRT monitor side by side.


I do have a PC hooked up via VGA right now.  It looks nice and doesn't lag.  This is probably not what you mean though.

[grahf]

Yeah, SLG3000 is VGA only.

It has a mini-din-8 for RGB input (same connector as PCE controllers). It comes with a little adapter cable for Japanese RGB cables, which is the one that looks like SCART but with a different pinout. You get Japanese RGB cables for the systems that have them, and build cables for everything else.

The reason I suggest testing your TV and CRT monitor side by side is to compare lag. CRT should have none, but your TV will. Whether or not it's negligible or horrible depends on your TV. If you're happy with VGA input quality on it, then you can consider the older XRGBs as viable (and cheaper) options as well.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Yeah, SLG3000 is VGA only.
It has a mini-din-8 for RGB input (same connector as PCE controllers). It comes with a little adapter cable for Japanese RGB cables, which is the one that looks like SCART but with a different pinout. You get Japanese RGB cables for the systems that have them, and build cables for everything else.

OH. Ok. It comes with an adapter.  That takes care of that.  I think the only system I'll need to build a cable for is the PCE.  SMS, MD, SFC all have them already.
 Not sure how the dreamcast will turn out with this stuff though.  Hopefully it's ok.  The XRGB3 has special dreamcast nonsense in it, IIRC.

The reason I suggest testing your TV and CRT monitor side by side is to compare lag. CRT should have none, but your TV will. Whether or not it's negligible or horrible depends on your TV. If you're happy with VGA input quality on it, then you can consider the older XRGBs as viable (and cheaper) options as well.

Oh.  Duhr.  I tried composite PCE on my HDTV.  It felt goofy. It might just be me though.  I'll give it another test with the 1084 and TV side by side and see how it feels.

Maybe I can find a cheap frame meister then.  I keep seeing RGB3's sorta cheap now.  I wonder if the framemeister is the reason for that...


edit:  I read the framemeister review again, and don't know if it's really worth it over an older, cheaper alternative.

I also have no idea if my VGA input on my TV is going to produce lag. 

The review I read mentions using a Faroudja based line doubler (VP30), and an SLG3000, and it is cheaper. 
 

[RegalSin]

Okay this needs to end. Back in the 1980s to 1990s all video hardware was analog like the way your eyes see.
This means you video output is only as good as your hardware.

You can guess why I would defend composite. Because I am using a pretty damn good standard televsion. Unlike those shots from CC website, composite is actually pretty good, only when your screen is good.

Most people using flatscreens have to understand. Their composites are not good on purpose.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Okay this needs to end. Back in the 1980s to 1990s all video hardware was analog like the way your eyes see.
This means you video output is only as good as your hardware.

You can guess why I would defend composite. Because I am using a pretty damn good standard televsion. Unlike those shots from CC website, composite is actually pretty good, only when your screen is good.

Most people using flatscreens have to understand. Their composites are not good on purpose.

please leave my thread.  You are too dumb to talk in it.

[Bernie]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!  I love it.

[grahf]

I also have no idea if my VGA input on my TV is going to produce lag. 

I guess it all comes down to whether or not you're happy with VGA-in on your TV. My old HDTV in the states had negligible lag on VGA, but produced a fuzzy picture. I'd give it a test and see what you think.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Well, it is nice and snappy when I test it with my computer. Im not sure if this is an acceptable test or not... but I do all kinds of music stuff on it with Fruity Loops and don't feel as if its lagging.

[grahf]

Well that's the best test of all, isn't it? If you're happy with it, then it's fine. Most people can't notice a little bit anyway.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Well that's the best test of all, isn't it? If you're happy with it, then it's fine. Most people can't notice a little bit anyway.

yeah, I figured it should be fine then.   I am actively attempting to get an XRGB3, since the Framemeister is too expensive for now.  and only does HDMI out

[grahf]

The 3'll do you great.