New Gamasutra Article - TG16 Turns 25

[vexcollects]

Stalled Engine: The TurboGrafx-16 turns 25

25 years ago, NEC released the video game system that fell first in the 16-bit console wars -- but what an interesting failure it was. The history of the TurboGrafx-16 as told by those who were there.

The TurboGrafx-16.

If you mention the system to hardcore retro game fans, they'll know it -- but these days, 25 years on from its launch, it's barely even a footnote in the histories of the console wars.

Continued...

The Hudson-designed PC Engine CPU, a derivative of the NES' processor.
By Christian Nutt

https://www.gamedeveloper.com/business/stalled-engine-the-turbografx-16-turns-25

Check it out if you care...

[ccovell]

Of course we care, it's the Turbo!

And it's a good article, very well-chronologically-explained.

[schweaty]

this was a good read.  thank you.

[Azzurri]

Wow, that was a great read, especially if you didn't know a lot of the history behind the TG16.

It's really sad how badly NEC managed the TG16 in the US.

[mitsuman]

Sure wish I could read it while here at work. The site is blocked because of "games".

[schweaty]

So good that I forgave the obligatory 'tarded "technically it are be 8 bit and no can be fast like 16 bit be"

yes... it makes up for its short comings with great interviews and insider context

[bob]

Sure wish I could read it while here at work. The site is blocked because of "games".

where do you work?  we block "games" too.

[mitsuman]

Sure wish I could read it while here at work. The site is blocked because of "games".

where do you work?  we block "games" too.

I work for a place that makes baby formula.

[bonoedgey]

I really liked reading this article. Man 25yrs.. sure flies by 

[NecroPhile]

"It was underpowered for the era." 

But at least it's not as slow as the SNES. 

[A Black Falcon]

Yeah, the thing about the 8-bit CPU was a bit annoying.  Should have mentioned that it's a powerful 8-bit CPU which is at least as good as the SNES's CPU or better, bits aside...

What this article does best, probably, is really hammer home the point about how unbelievably badly NEC and Hudson mismanaged the system outside of Japan.  It doesn't even mention all of their mistakes, either!  I mean, the article doesn't get to the stupid limited rollout, where NEC decided to only sell the TG16 in a few major markets in the US at first.  There's a lot in the article I hadn't heard before, though.  Unbelievably incompetent mismanagement, some of the worst the industry has seen.

I do question the point that we missed out on so many great games, though.  I mean, yeah, we did... on CD.  But on HuCard?  On HuCard we got a not too bad limited selection of titles.  Yeah, there are obvious big ones that were skipped, and plenty of smaller titles that would have been great to see here, but it's the CD system where the worst of the missed games shows... and of course, to get more CD games, you'd have to actually sell CD systems here, something that never happened.  40,000 sales (evenly split between CD addon drives and Duos) according to Vic Ireland is abysmal.  Of course it's also possible that more Turbo Duos were made than that and that the excess stock was what TZD was selling over the next decade.  Who knows how many they had though, surely not more than some number of thousands?

 The constant stream of games that Japan never let the US release made the situation worse, of course.  How are you supposed to convince people to buy the Duo in '92-'94 when NEC/Hudson won't let you bring over Rondo of Blood or Street Fighter II, blocks you from releasing World Heroes and King of the Monsters 2 (but takes your Arcade Card idea and releases their own SNK ports in Japan instead ), and blocks Mortal Kombat for TG16 as well?  As the article says, in that situation of course you have no chance.

Still, I find it weird that they actually took until Summer CES to give up on TTi, considering that they hadn't had a retail release since 1993, and there were only two games released in '94, Godzilla and The Dynastic Hero... that's a long time to wait while releasing nothing and not really being in stores.


Oh, one mistake --- it claims that that Lords of Thunder video is "early".  Lords of Thunder released in mid '93, so that's not early.  That's in the middle of TTi's very short life.

One other thing -- it says that the Turbo CD released at the end of '89.  For several years now, people on PCEFX have been saying that this isn't true, and that it probably didn't actually release until sometime in mid 1990.  Do the NEC people interviewed in this article actually confirm that they did indeed ship the Turbo CD at the end of '89, or is the article just assuming that it released then because that was the previous date that had always been seen around the net?

Though it introduced the TurboDuo, TTi had never had to manufacture more TurboGrafx-16 units; in fact, says Brandstetter, the last 100,000 to 200,000 U.S. consoles were unloaded on the Brazilian market, with their expansion ports disabled. The initial order NEC made in 1989 for 750,000 units never sold through to U.S. customers. As for the Duo? "Turbo Zone Direct had Duos for at least 10 years," Brandstetter says.

As far as I know, this is the first time I've ever seen actual TG16 sales numbers mentioned, so for this alone this article is fantastic!  The Turbo CD numbers they cite are just those same ones from Vic Ireland as usual, and they never mention Turbo Duo numbers, but that TG16 number is new, I think, and plausible.  I had believed the "900,000" number that was out there, but unfortunately it looks like that estimate was too high.  Too bad...

At the conference, Hudson didn't generate much publisher interest in the TurboGrafx. But it did succeed in alienating Electronic Arts.

"Basically, there was a kind of weeding-out of developers who could actually participate in development of the first round of CD-ROM games," Greiner says. "We wanted the kind of emphatic push that we would get from somebody who really knew how to use that kind of space -- in other words, really great game developers."

In a meeting, Hudson staffers asked EA's team if it was up to the task of developing great CD-ROM games -- "we didn't think EA was that at the time, obviously, or otherwise we wouldn't have to ask them so deeply," says Greiner. "EA took offense to that -- they kind of walked out of the meeting and said, 'How dare you question us?'"

This is also pretty numbingly stupid, obviously. :p

[shubibiman]

Very interesting read

[Psycho Punch]

This was a great article. Seriously, that's what gaming journalism is about. There's a lot of stuff I haven't seen anywhere at all.

[reson8er]

Great article, should be stickied for those that didn't have to live through it.

[Galder]

Fantastic information in there, thanks for the link. It should be definitely stickied. I learned so many new things tonight.

[Arjak]

This is a great article. It really helped put things into perspective for me. I agree with one of the employees interviewed: it really does feel like NEC wanted the Turbo to fail once they didn't get the instant gratification they expected.

It also sounds like NEC had no respect for the American team's opinions and ideas. They didn't listen to their ideas because they weren't NEC's ideas, even though it was clear that NEC Japan knew nothing about the American gaming market.

Maybe I'm overreacting, due to other similar stories I've heard about American subsidiaries of Japanese companies, and stories about Japan's attitude about American games, but now that I've read this article, I'm beginning to wonder if that "Gaijin" mentality bullshit is to blame for the TurboGrafx's failure.

[nosorrow]

Sure wish I could read it while here at work. The site is blocked because of "games".

Yeah, it was the same for me earlier today. At least I can read it now, being at home and all.

P.S. It's a shame I can't peruse the PCEngineFX forums while at work; for some reason, I have no problem browsing the shmups forum and the classic gaming neogaf (.net) threads.

[A Black Falcon]

This is a great article. It really helped put things into perspective for me. I agree with one of the employees interviewed: it really does feel like NEC wanted the Turbo to fail once they didn't get the instant gratification they expected.

It also sounds like NEC had no respect for the American team's opinions and ideas. They didn't listen to their ideas because they weren't NEC's ideas, even though it was clear that NEC Japan knew nothing about the American gaming market.

Maybe I'm overreacting, due to other similar stories I've heard about American subsidiaries of Japanese companies, and stories about Japan's attitude about American games, but now that I've read this article, I'm beginning to wonder if that "Gaijin" mentality bullshit is to blame for the TurboGrafx's failure.

I'm sure that NEC Japan was a MAJOR problem, but don't excuse NEC US here; they decided to redesign the Turbografx, delayed it for months for no reason except to end up releasing after Sega when they had a years' head start, did that really stupid marketing strategy that only focused on certain major markets. as the article describes did a terrible job of selecting which games they wanted to bring over even BEYOND the interference from Japan... the article makes clear that TTi was pushing for good games, but NEC US before that... not so much.  Their abysmal box art changes are another bad decision worth mentioning, too.

[Azzurri]

It seems like nec us was managing the tg16 horribly and when they finally try to
Right the wrongs Nec Jp said screw it.

[neutopia6]

That was a beautiful read, thank you for posting this, its intriguing getting to see it from inside perspectives.

[Psycho Punch]

Seriously Johnny Turbo was basically our hero post NEC for the Turbografx. Too bad he'll be remembered more as the "fat guy on the turbo comic" by the majority of people.

[A Black Falcon]

Vic Ireland says that the story about TTi being offered Mortal Kombat as an exclusive in '92 and saying no because NEC Japan said "I think Americans are tired of fighting games." is true. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=129796238&postcount=1906

Of all of NEC's mistakes, this has to be one of the worst ones.  For all of their disastrous mismanagement that ensured their failure in the US between '89 and '91, the system still could have done something with a serious hit game or two... and MK1 is DEFINITELY one of those games, particularly if it was exclusive!  Even timed exclusive would be huge.  Then release Rondo of Blood here, manage to actually continue to release games because of the increased sales, and '93 to '95 would have gone much better for TTi, for sure.

[ccovell]

I don't think NEC USA deserves any kind of respect.  Chris Bieniek explains more of it here:

http://www.video-game-ephemera.com/025.htm
http://www.video-game-ephemera.com/041.htm
http://www.video-game-ephemera.com/014.htm

and please read the rest of his articles, too.

[shubibiman]

but now that I've read this article, I'm beginning to wonder if that "Gaijin" mentality bullshit is to blame for the TurboGrafx's failure.

I don't think it's caused by the "gaijin" mentality but more by the way lots of japanese companies are run : by old salarymen who never want to change their minds and way of thinking and don't want to admit that they made the wrong decisions, etc.

Basicaly, that was the same mentality that lead to the Fukushima nuclear plant disaster.

[nosorrow]

Vic Ireland

Funny thing: skimming through my collection of old EGM magazines looking for Turbo reviews and whatnot, I noticed that in early 1993 Spriggan was slated for release in the US and it was to be published by none other than Working Designs. Probably old news (well, literally) to most of you, but for me that's the first time I'd heard of that. Wonder what happened.

[esteban]

GENERAL OBSERVATION: The problem, comrades, is that many people want to distance themselves from failure. An effort to protect the fragile ego, and all that. Even events of 20, 30, 40 years ago. So, honestly, I don't know where the truth is hiding.

The safest approach to take is that fundamental mistakes (or questionable decisions) were committed REPEATEDLY. It is this pattern of questionable decision-making by management that is most damning.

That said, we may not agree on what those "questionable decisions" actually are.  I like that Black_Falcon uses evidence to support his arguments, I just want to challenge some of his assumptions. Falcon, I love you. Please don't take offense 


A_BLACK_FALCON:
BIG PICTURE: Focusing on major markets in the US (major cities) is not, inherently, a bad idea. It sucks for people who live outside of the designated target areas, but if you want to EFFICIENTLY reach the GREATEST CONCENTRATION of your target demographic WITH A LIMITED BUDGET, what else are you going to do? I'm thinking about advertising dollars here (TV radio)...targeting major markets makes sense.

The sad truth is that TG-16 didn't catch on in the major markets. THAT IS THE PROBLEM! It should have gotten more traction in the major markets.

As for distribution, well, TG-16 was in ToysRUs, but I don't know when it was available nationally, in every store. But focusing on major markets is not wrong-headed.

A successful console requires several elements LINING UP SIMULTANEOUSLY....hopefully without too much competition, I'm not convinced that TG-16 would have been successful if we went back on time and changed superficial things:
(1) TG-16 did not fail because of its aesthetics. That's silly. Genesis/MD is an ugly wart, but it sold well. 

(2) Mortal Kombat would have helped, but I'm not sure if an ISOLATED hit game would have convinced enough folks to buy the console. Management should have put every effort into promoting TG-16's too tier games, because SOFTWARE SELLS HARDWARE. I don't know if TG-16 could have assembled the killer (short) list of MUST-HAVE GAMES to compete with the giants Sega and Nintendo...Genesis and Nintendo had a wealth of must-have games that appealed to North American market.

(3) BOX ART DID NOT MATTER. TG-16 did not fail because of box art. THE PROBLEM IS THAT TOO FEW PEOPLE GOT A CHANCE TO SEE THIS BOX ART. I'm serious. Very few people were even aware of the TG-16, which is a much, much, much bigger problem than box art. When shopping, THE FIRST THING EVERYONE DID WAS IMMEDIATELY FLIP OVER THE BOX AND LOOK AT SCREENSHOTS. That's real life. Whether I was in a store or READING A MAGAZINE, my eyes rarely lingered on box art BECAUSE I ONLY CARED ABOUT THE GAME ITSELF. Kids aren't completely stupid, we knew that the screenshots were the only useful piece of information.

(4) I'll stop, for now.

[MrFulci]

.........

The sad truth is that TG-16 didn't catch on in the major markets. THAT IS THE PROBLEM! It should have gotten more traction in the major markets.

As for distribution, well, TG-16 was in ToysRUs, but I don't know when it was available nationally, in every store. But focusing on major markets is not wrong-headed.

A successful console requires several elements LINING UP SIMULTANEOUSLY....hopefully without too much competition, I'm not convinced that TG-16 would have been successful if we went back on time and changed superficial things:
(1) TG-16 did not fail because of its aesthetics. That's silly. Genesis/MD is an ugly wart, but it sold well. 

(2) Mortal Kombat would have helped, but I'm not sure if an ISOLATED hit game would have convinced enough folks to buy the console. Management should have put every effort into promoting TG-16's too tier games, because SOFTWARE SELLS HARDWARE. I don't know if TG-16 could have assembled the killer (short) list of MUST-HAVE GAMES to compete with the giants Sega and Nintendo...Genesis and Nintendo had a wealth of must-have games that appealed to North American market.

(3) BOX ART DID NOT MATTER. TG-16 did not fail because of box art. THE PROBLEM IS THAT TOO FEW PEOPLE GOT A CHANCE TO SEE THIS BOX ART. I'm serious. Very few people were even aware of the TG-16, which is a much, much, much bigger problem than box art. When shopping, THE FIRST THING EVERYONE DID WAS IMMEDIATELY FLIP OVER THE BOX AND LOOK AT SCREENSHOTS. That's real life. Whether I was in a store or READING A MAGAZINE, my eyes rarely lingered on box art BECAUSE I ONLY CARED ABOUT THE GAME ITSELF. Kids aren't completely stupid, we knew that the screenshots were the only useful piece of information.

(4) I'll stop, for now.

I knew of some people who wanted a TG-16, but when all the other kids already had an NES, later a Genesis, SNES around the corner, I can see why people passed on it. I wanted a TG-16 when it was somewhat fresh, but when it came time for a 16-bit system, my parents let me make the decision. Genesis had been out a while, good library, Turbo Grafx 16, also out for a little while.. Oh, there is the SNES, let me get the newest system.

If a parent was buying their kid a system, if ti were the parents, they seemed to stay with what was safe, familiar popular. Kids, I noticed did the same. It was Genesis or NES. Later, SNES. If someone already had an SNES, they went for a Genesis, and vice-versa.

I was familiar with Nintendo stuff. I was also already familiar with Sega stuff, due to their arcade games. TG-16, I didn't take too much notice of until Splatterhouse and such.

I knew of very few people who had the system, and once I had an SNES, Genesis, NES, even buying Atari 2600 games at yard sales. I just had enough to keep me busy. I got my own TG-16 system when they were being cleared out and I could buy a system and a bunch of games, cheap.

Had Turbo Grafx had an earlier release, it may have hung around longer. More people I knew back then may have had a system, and I would have been more eager to get one over a Genesis, more NES games, later and SNES, etc.

I don't mind the system's redesign. I prefer the black and orange look, to the PC Engine, but I think it would have made more sense to just keep the same design, and change the color to black and orange. The system didn't need a redesign.


Toys R Us was not the only one to have it. I do recall playing the TG-16 on one of those demo machines, there, though.

Children's Palace also had TG-16. I recall they had a display, with the Demo LD playing on a TV.

Some department stores, at least in the DC/MD/VA area also carried the system. Evans I know 100% had it (Out of business now). I think BEST (Not Best Buy) also carried it. Both were catalog stores. They had most of the stuff in a back room/warehouse. Or, you ordered from their catalog, then went there later to pick it up.

Sears, I don't recall seeing it in their stores, but I didn't go in there much for video game stuff, I know it was in their catalogs.

Also, I know Babbages and Software etc had TG-16 stuff.

Radio shack, they had it also!


TG-16 was in many places, in big markets. Not as dense as Nintendo or Sega, but it was not hard to find.

------

Mortal Combat as an exclusive, and some other stuff, could have kept the system going for a bit longer. I in the mid 90s, even after TG-16 was, "Dead", I knew of other people who knew of the system, and looked at it as a, "boutique" system. TTI tried to keep it going as that type of, "boutique" system, but, didn't quite last.

Besides just having an exclusive game, just having more CD games would have been great.

That's how I saw the system, by the mid 90s, a boutique system. Some oddball games, some stuff I wondered why got released, but never too many harsh feelings towards it, except when certain games would slow down (Bullet time!), etc.


-----------

The art, to me, helped it a bit. Dungeon Explorer, for example, that art is not great, but it's also so vague. it just made me want to read the back of the box, I remember that much about that game.

Esteban nails it though, back then, if you wanted to know more about a game, and had not heard anyone talk about it, or read about it, or seen a commercial, played it someplace else, etc. No internet, so, you would flip over the plastic laminated thing, and read the back of the box, where the description, number of players, and screenshots were. The front of the box was there to pull you in, to read more.


The thing that gets me about TG-16, is a lot of stuff wasn't broke, and I was unsure why they tried to fix it. Color the PC Engine black/orange, call it Turbo Grafx 16, no redesign needed. use some of the art from Japan. Pack in a game people are FAMILIAR with. NES had that awesome action pack with 2 games I played in arcade machines, Super Mario and Duck Hunt (I wished at the time Hogan's Alley was on there, also). Sega, Altered Beast, and later Sonic, which had a reputation for being good. Keith Courage... WTF is that? To be fair, I did play Keith through when I got the system, but it never did feel like a proper pack-in title, especially at the launch of a console.

I'm done for now, also.

[A Black Falcon]

GENERAL OBSERVATION: The problem, comrades, is that many people want to distance themselves from failure. An effort to protect the fragile ego, and all that. Even events of 20, 30, 40 years ago. So, honestly, I don't know where the truth is hiding.

The safest approach to take is that fundamental mistakes (or questionable decisions) were committed REPEATEDLY. It is this pattern of questionable decision-making by management that is most damning.

That said, we may not agree on what those "questionable decisions" actually are.  I like that Black_Falcon uses evidence to support his arguments, I just want to challenge some of his assumptions. Falcon, I love you. Please don't take offense 


A_BLACK_FALCON:
BIG PICTURE: Focusing on major markets in the US (major cities) is not, inherently, a bad idea. It sucks for people who live outside of the designated target areas, but if you want to EFFICIENTLY reach the GREATEST CONCENTRATION of your target demographic WITH A LIMITED BUDGET, what else are you going to do? I'm thinking about advertising dollars here (TV radio)...targeting major markets makes sense.

The NES started in just a few target markets, and after that quickly expanded across the country.  The Intellivision did the same thing.  So sure, it's not a terrible idea to do that, it was done other times back then.  However, they never spread it across the country!  Essentially, after only having a lukewarm response in the first areas, NEC gave up and stopped there.  You can't do that if you actually want to compete, or do even half-decently.  You have to actually be willing to go in there and sell your console nationwide.  As this article makes clear NEC was not willing to do that, and it was their worst failing.

If NEC had launched the TG16 in late '88, as of course they should have (you don't address this point), then sure, start in a few markets, and expand to nationwide in '89.  You'd still be well ahead of Sega.

The sad truth is that TG-16 didn't catch on in the major markets. THAT IS THE PROBLEM! It should have gotten more traction in the major markets.

Sure, but by not even TRYING to sell the system anywhere than in those markets, NEC ensured the systems' failure.  Disastrous mistake.  They also needed to not release the thing after the Genesis, of course.

Also, maybe just calling it "Turbografx" would have been good... the "16" led to so much hate based on the "but it's actually 8-bit!" thing, even if the 16 always was accurately stated to refer to the graphics chip.

As for distribution, well, TG-16 was in ToysRUs, but I don't know when it was available nationally, in every store. But focusing on major markets is not wrong-headed.

It wasn't ever really available nationally; by the time they got past the major markets, they were in Toys R Us and nowhere else.  That was certainly the case here.  For instance, here in southern Maine, the only place I ever remember seeing the TG16 during its life was the one Toys R Us in the area.  Hard to find system.  I didn't know anyone who owned one.  When your systems are in only one chain, that's not surprising.

A successful console requires several elements LINING UP SIMULTANEOUSLY....hopefully without too much competition, I'm not convinced that TG-16 would have been successful if we went back on time and changed superficial things:
(1) TG-16 did not fail because of its aesthetics. That's silly. Genesis/MD is an ugly wart, but it sold well. 

Hey, the Genesis isn't ugly!  But yeah, neither is the Turbografx.

(2) Mortal Kombat would have helped, but I'm not sure if an ISOLATED hit game would have convinced enough folks to buy the console. Management should have put every effort into promoting TG-16's too tier games, because SOFTWARE SELLS HARDWARE. I don't know if TG-16 could have assembled the killer (short) list of MUST-HAVE GAMES to compete with the giants Sega and Nintendo...Genesis and Nintendo had a wealth of must-have games that appealed to North American market.

MK was one of the most popular and successful arcade games ever in the US.  That game as an exclusive would have been HUGE, if marketed even half-decently.  It couldn't have entirely reversed years of falling badly behind, but it would have sold a lot of systems for sure... particularly, of course, if you release it with some SNK games, SFII, and a 6-button controller, to make the system a strong fighting game platform just as the genre first attained popularity in the US.

Of course, MK would have been a 1993 release, and in reality that year was a year of failure, as TTi failed to sell Duos and slowly faded away as a company.  You could be right that just having MK might not have changed things; maybe people would still have ignored the Duo.  Lords of Thunder  got their biggest push that year, but it didn't change many minds.  But MK is on an entirely different level in popularity from that game.  It WOULD have sold systems, if they had systems to sell (which they seem to have had, in moderate quantities at least).  Of course though, by 1993 it's not like they were going to suddenly win the generation or anything, but still... MK, an exclusive.  Then after its success maybe Japan will actually let them release more games in the US in '93 and '94 (and also '95, if things went well).  There certainly were more good games to bring over, some of which probably would have done fine here!  Of course the next huge title needed to be Rondo of Blood (probably in '94 sometime), and that also would have definitely sold systems to hardcore gamers.  And beyond that, there are lots moore games that would have done fine here; the worst problem never was that the system doesn't have games, it's that too many of them didn't release here.  Now, it is true that the system has lots of RPGs, which were much less successful here than in Japan, and too few platformers, which were very popular that generation, but still... it has games, good ones, and with some hit games like RoB and MK and such to draw people to the system, and/or a competent NEC at the helm from the beginning, I think people would have realized that.

(3) BOX ART DID NOT MATTER. TG-16 did not fail because of box art. THE PROBLEM IS THAT TOO FEW PEOPLE GOT A CHANCE TO SEE THIS BOX ART. I'm serious. Very few people were even aware of the TG-16, which is a much, much, much bigger problem than box art. When shopping, THE FIRST THING EVERYONE DID WAS IMMEDIATELY FLIP OVER THE BOX AND LOOK AT SCREENSHOTS. That's real life. Whether I was in a store or READING A MAGAZINE, my eyes rarely lingered on box art BECAUSE I ONLY CARED ABOUT THE GAME ITSELF. Kids aren't completely stupid, we knew that the screenshots were the only useful piece of information.

I do think box art matters.  It doesn't matter as much as the actual games, the marketing and how many stores carry the system, what games they are choosing to release, etc., but I do think it matters a bit.  I mean, you didn't see Sega or Nintendo releasing SNES or Genesis games with box art as embarrassingly bad as Dungeon Explorer's!  The Master System did have horrendous box art, but in the US at least, that system also failed badly, so that's no positive example.  Box art isn't the most important thing, but it does matter a little -- it looks bad, and people do notice that and maybe some passed over the system because of it.

(4) I'll stop, for now.

What about the more important failures?  I presume you agree that NEC's marketing, distribution, and choices to pass over so many games for US release were terrible moves?

I mean, what do you think they should have done better?

[Galder]

It seems like nec us was managing the tg16 horribly and when they finally try to
Right the wrongs Nec Jp said screw it.

Dis. +1.

[jeffhlewis]

If you look back at the era without 20/20 hindsight, I think there's a big point that people forget. When I was growing up, we were aware of the Japanese market through magazines, but rarely would a store like Electronics Boutique or Babbages offer imports for sale in-store (the Saturn is the only system I remember having in-store imports for sale).

When I think *now* of how amazing the system was, I'm taking into account the full library of both PC-Engine and TG-16 games. Back then though, all we saw was the launch lineup and a trickle of occasional good/bad/mediocre games coming through to the states. By the time TTi took over, the TG-16 was relegated in our area stores to a small shelf in the back, with SNES, Genesis and PC taking up the majority of the store. It already had the stink of failure on it.

I guess what I'm saying is, *at the time* (the Street Fighter 2 and Mortal Kombat 1 days), the TG-16 in retail had already been given the kiss of death. As a kid growing up during that era, gamers absolutely knew what the TG-16 was, but since SF2 and MK1 weren't available for it in the states, it might as well have been invisible.

That's how it was where I grew up; your results may vary.

[o.pwuaioc]

This would have been a much better article if it wasn't Gamasutra.

[Azzurri]

I was lucky enough to have 2 small video game stores when I was young that imported Japanese games so I got to play some of them, but not many TG16.

[esteban]

If you look back at the era without 20/20 hindsight, I think there's a big point that people forget. When I was growing up, we were aware of the Japanese market through magazines, but rarely would a store like Electronics Boutique or Babbages offer imports for sale in-store (the Saturn is the only system I remember having in-store imports for sale).

When I think *now* of how amazing the system was, I'm taking into account the full library of both PC-Engine and TG-16 games. Back then though, all we saw was the launch lineup and a trickle of occasional good/bad/mediocre games coming through to the states. By the time TTi took over, the TG-16 was relegated in our area stores to a small shelf in the back, with SNES, Genesis and PC taking up the majority of the store. It already had the stink of failure on it.

I guess what I'm saying is, *at the time* (the Street Fighter 2 and Mortal Kombat 1 days), the TG-16 in retail had already been given the kiss of death. As a kid growing up during that era, gamers absolutely knew what the TG-16 was, but since SF2 and MK1 weren't available for it in the states, it might as well have been invisible.

That's how it was where I grew up; your results may vary.

Yup, from my perspective, Turbo was dead BEFORE Sega commercials were on TV 24/7, magazines were filled with endless amounts of Sega coverage, and everyone at school was talking about Sega...I don't think any Turbo fan thought our little TG-16 was going to anything beyond a niche.

I just didn't want TG-16 to die an ugly death. I was amazed it lasted as long as it did (I was happy, but shocked,that DUO was actually released).

I wasn't a cynical kid, I was realistic.

You didn't need market research the title "Executive" to grasp TG-16's predicament in the early 90's. Anecdotal evidence spoke plainly and clearly.

 

[jeffhlewis]

Now *with* 20/20 hindsight, I would have bought every single Turbo release on that little shelf in the back of the store. I distinctly remember picking up Exile: Wicked Phenomenon and being like "Oh cool! They brought that over to the states" and putting it back down. It was $19.99.

[NecroPhile]

Fact #1: the Turbob wasn't "impossible to find".  It was carried by Sears, Service Merchandise, Montgomery Ward, JC Penney, and Radio Shack, which were all nationwide.

Fact #2: Mortal Kombat wouldn't have been a huge system seller, as few people would've been willing to pay $200 to play MK ($90 for the system, $50 for the game, $20 for a Tap, and $40 for a pair of 6-button controllers).  That's mighty steep to get a game that wouldn't have been exclusive for any length of time, 90 days tops.

[xcrement5x]

This would have been a much better article if it wasn't Gamasutra.

Care to elaborate?

[A Black Falcon]

Fact #1: the Turbob wasn't "impossible to find".  It was carried by Sears, Service Merchandise, Montgomery Ward, JC Penney, and Radio Shack, which were all nationwide.

The Sears and Radio Shack stores in my town did not carry the TG16.  Sears had the Genesis, SNES, Game Boy, even the Virtual Boy, but not the TG16.  Radio Shack had almost no console stuff.  Service Merchandise... there was one of those nearby, but I don't remember going there for videogames much; if they had anything, it was probably even less than Ames (another department store there was one of around here back then), and I doubt very much they had anything TG16.  If those chains carried the system in some places, it was far from nationwide.  The only place I ever remember seeing a TG16 was in the Toys R Us near the mall (~40+ minutes away, so we went there quite rarely).

Fact #2: Mortal Kombat wouldn't have been a huge system seller, as few people would've been willing to pay $200 to play MK ($90 for the system, $50 for the game, $20 for a Tap, and $40 for a pair of 6-button controllers).  That's mighty steep to get a game that wouldn't have been exclusive for any length of time, 90 days tops.

Yeah, the length of exclusivity would be pretty important.  I do agree on that point.

[MrFulci]

Fact #1: the Turbob wasn't "impossible to find".  It was carried by Sears, Service Merchandise, Montgomery Ward, JC Penney, and Radio Shack, which were all nationwide.

The Sears and Radio Shack stores in my town did not carry the TG16.  Sears had the Genesis, SNES, Game Boy, even the Virtual Boy, but not the TG16.  Radio Shack had almost no console stuff.  Service Merchandise... there was one of those nearby, but I don't remember going there for videogames much; if they had anything, it was probably even less than Ames (another department store there was one of around here back then), and I doubt very much they had anything TG16.  If those chains carried the system in some places, it was far from nationwide.  The only place I ever remember seeing a TG16 was in the Toys R Us near the mall (~40+ minutes away, so we went there quite rarely).

Fact #2: Mortal Kombat wouldn't have been a huge system seller, as few people would've been willing to pay $200 to play MK ($90 for the system, $50 for the game, $20 for a Tap, and $40 for a pair of 6-button controllers).  That's mighty steep to get a game that wouldn't have been exclusive for any length of time, 90 days tops.

Yeah, the length of exclusivity would be pretty important.  I do agree on that point.

Black Falcon,

What state were you in during that time? I had no trouble seeing TG-16 stuff, without even having to look for it.

[cr8zykuban0]

was a good read for sure, it just sucks that the tg 16 wasn't properly managed in the u.s. and that many awesome games from japan never made it to the states!

[Azzurri]

Fact #1: the Turbob wasn't "impossible to find".  It was carried by Sears, Service Merchandise, Montgomery Ward, JC Penney, and Radio Shack, which were all nationwide.

The Sears and Radio Shack stores in my town did not carry the TG16.  Sears had the Genesis, SNES, Game Boy, even the Virtual Boy, but not the TG16.  Radio Shack had almost no console stuff.  Service Merchandise... there was one of those nearby, but I don't remember going there for videogames much; if they had anything, it was probably even less than Ames (another department store there was one of around here back then), and I doubt very much they had anything TG16.  If those chains carried the system in some places, it was far from nationwide.  The only place I ever remember seeing a TG16 was in the Toys R Us near the mall (~40+ minutes away, so we went there quite rarely).

Fact #2: Mortal Kombat wouldn't have been a huge system seller, as few people would've been willing to pay $200 to play MK ($90 for the system, $50 for the game, $20 for a Tap, and $40 for a pair of 6-button controllers).  That's mighty steep to get a game that wouldn't have been exclusive for any length of time, 90 days tops.

Yeah, the length of exclusivity would be pretty important.  I do agree on that point.

Black Falcon,

What state were you in during that time? I had no trouble seeing TG-16 stuff, without even having to look for it.

I don't remember seeing many where I live in Columbus, Ohio.  They did have em at Toys R Us but it was the only store I remember.

BUT we did have Incredible Universe which still is the greatest electronic store ever.

[vexcollects]

This would have been a much better article if it wasn't Gamasutra.

Care to elaborate?

Yes, I would ask this as well. Why would it have been better if it was not on Gamasutra? I've enjoyed Gamasutra since it was a site you needed to sign up for to gain access. I've always appreciated that they cover the industry as a whole with interesting editorials and esoteric stories. It's what I liked about Next Generation magazine as well, before magazines started to die. I would definitely pick Gamasutra over something like IGN any day. I've found it hard to find the substance in all the flash on a site like that....but I suppose that is like comparing apples to androids.

[glazball]

I thought it was a great article, thanks for sharing it.  I had never realized that the Genesis launched so closely to the Turbo.  That was a brilliant move by Sega (not changing the hardware for the US market) which drove the first nail in the Turbo's coffin.

[DragonmasterDan]

Great article, very well researched.

It also finally once and for all settles the UK release being official question that's been going around for the past decade or more.

[NecroPhile]

If those chains carried the system in some places, it was far from nationwide.

Yeah, I'm sure they all had 'em in their catalogs but didn't actually stock them anywhere and refused to sell them if you attempted to order.  You got me. 

The concept of catalog stores is obviously lost on you.

[DragonmasterDan]

Yeah, I'm sure they all had 'em in their catalogs but didn't actually stock them anywhere and refused to sell them if you attempted to order.  You got me. 

The concept of catalog stores is obviously lost on you.

I recall buying TurboGrafx stuff at Toys R Us, Venture, Electronics Boutique, babbages, software etc and Target. I don't recall for example K-Mart stocking it. Simply put it wasn't as widely available as Nintendo or Sega hardware, but at least in urban areas it wasn't that hard to track the hardware and some games down. When TTI took over it really started focusing more on specialty stores.

[NecroPhile]

Yep, it definitely wasn't as easy to find as main stream stuff.  My point was that it wasn't as hard to get as some make it out, where you had to live in a handful of select towns or you were out of luck.

[DragonmasterDan]

Yep, it definitely wasn't as easy to find as main stream stuff.  My point was that it wasn't as hard to get as some make it out, where you had to live in a handful of select towns or you were out of luck.

Yep, compare that to Neo-Geo AES where I basically knew of JUST specialty stores and Toys R us who actually carried it.

[A Black Falcon]

Fact #1: the Turbob wasn't "impossible to find".  It was carried by Sears, Service Merchandise, Montgomery Ward, JC Penney, and Radio Shack, which were all nationwide.

The Sears and Radio Shack stores in my town did not carry the TG16.  Sears had the Genesis, SNES, Game Boy, even the Virtual Boy, but not the TG16.  Radio Shack had almost no console stuff.  Service Merchandise... there was one of those nearby, but I don't remember going there for videogames much; if they had anything, it was probably even less than Ames (another department store there was one of around here back then), and I doubt very much they had anything TG16.  If those chains carried the system in some places, it was far from nationwide.  The only place I ever remember seeing a TG16 was in the Toys R Us near the mall (~40+ minutes away, so we went there quite rarely).

Fact #2: Mortal Kombat wouldn't have been a huge system seller, as few people would've been willing to pay $200 to play MK ($90 for the system, $50 for the game, $20 for a Tap, and $40 for a pair of 6-button controllers).  That's mighty steep to get a game that wouldn't have been exclusive for any length of time, 90 days tops.

Yeah, the length of exclusivity would be pretty important.  I do agree on that point.

Black Falcon,

What state were you in during that time? I had no trouble seeing TG-16 stuff, without even having to look for it.

Maine.  We also had a Kay-Bee in town, in addition to Sears and Radio Shack (and Ames and Service Merchandise) which became a Kay-Bee Toy Works in '94 or '95 or so; I don't remember ever seeing the TG16 in that store either.

I am quite certain that the one and only time I saw a TG16 demo station was in that Toys R Us I mentioned.  It was kind of cool because I'd never played a TG16 before (they had a shmup in it, of course)... and that was the only time I played the system before buying one in '09.  Another example of how Toys R Us was the only chain which actually widely distributed the TG16 in their stores.

If those chains carried the system in some places, it was far from nationwide.

Yeah, I'm sure they all had 'em in their catalogs but didn't actually stock them anywhere and refused to sell them if you attempted to order.  You got me. 

The concept of catalog stores is obviously lost on you.

... What?  You'd actually consider something you have to order from the catalog as being the same thing as something the chain sells in stores?  That's crazy!  Those are not even remotely similar.  Sure, maybe they had TG16 stuff in the Sears catalog, but what mattered to me was what I could see in stores.

Yep, it definitely wasn't as easy to find as main stream stuff.  My point was that it wasn't as hard to get as some make it out, where you had to live in a handful of select towns or you were out of luck.

Yep, compare that to Neo-Geo AES where I basically knew of JUST specialty stores and Toys R us who actually carried it.

Yeah, Neo-Geo stuff was even less common than TG16, that is true.

[NecroPhile]

... What?  You'd actually consider something you have to order from the catalog as being the same thing as something the chain sells in stores?  That's crazy!  Those are not even remotely similar.  Sure, maybe they had TG16 stuff in the Sears catalog, but what mattered to me was what I could see in stores.

I'll repeat myself: my point was that it wasn't as hard to get as some make it out, where you had to live in a handful of select towns or you were out of luck.  Get that through your thick skull.

[Otaking]

Interesting read.
I think if the team behind TTi had been in charge from the beginning of the TG16 then it would of done a lot better.

The article says TTi tried to get Street Fighter II, Dracula X and the NEO GEO Game ports.
I've always thought these games could of changed the outcome of the TG16 if they had been released in the US.