PCE vs. MD

[Tatsujin]

in red

Here are games that I either disagree with Tatsukin or just have something to say about them-


Shooter/3D Shooter:


Darius II - MD<PCE -the only difference I was able to percieve is that the MD version isn't the best port while the PCE version is as close to perfect as possible.
the pce version shows some great grafx as well as redbook audio, but lacks a lot in technical issues (terrible flickering, sloppy gameplay, peppless...the MD pendant is simpler, but perfectly playable with a good portion of action, as well as some very nice background-fx and chip-BGMs

Hellfire - MD/PCE -I haven't directly compared the two, but have always heard that the only advantage the MD version had was layered bgs.
the MD version is technically better, owns parallax, and is much closer to the arcade version. the chip-BGM in that game is amazing and powerful

Kyuukyoku Tiger - PCE/MD -I didn't realize there was a MD port.
there is, and it is markable inferior


Adventure:


Snatcher CDROMantic - PCE/MCD -although I really prefer the PCE version, most non-PCE fans love the terrible acting and extra content.
i prefere the PCE version as well, when it comes to originality, better palette, more goreness and nudity


Action/Jump 'N Run:


Juuohki (Altered Beast) - MD/PCE -this is another one thats not so cut and dry. From what I've seen so far, the cart & card versions are more or less even.
there is almost nothing equal. the PCE version sucks almost everywhere, where the MD version shines. indeed, it isn't a that great game though, except for the nsotalgia


Wonder Boy in Monster World/Dynastic Hero - PCE~MD -again, the give and take between each version is more of a draw.
it can't be a draw, since the BGM in the PCE version is something of the best ever composed. but the strength of the MD version is the originality and parallax



RPG/Action-Adventure/Strategie:


Popful Mail – MCD/PCE -I'd have to play through both japanese versions again. I'd definitely rate the PCE version over the ruined Sega-CD version, but the original Mega-CD may be better overall as a game. After recently trying both, I found the Sega-CD visuals much more impressive than I had remembered.
the PCE version looks mingy against the MD version

[CrackTiger]

Joe, some other 60 fps videos that would be cool if you're ever bored and have nothing to do would be Strider MD/ACD, Golden Axe CD2/Sega CD, WBIII SMS/TG-16.

[nat]

OK here's the video comparing Ys 3 framerates.  It's short, only 10 seconds and it has no audio.

Quicktime format - 1.33 MB

WMV format - 1.53 MB

The TurboGrafx-CD version doesn't have a steady framerate.  It can be anywhere between 15 and 25 in most of the game.  A few screens scroll at 60fps.

The Genesis version moves at 60fps all the time.

Hey, great comparison.

The Genesis vesion definitely has an edge in smoothness.

I still love the Turbo version for the music though. Damn I love that game.

[Tatsujin]

yeah..why the heck the PCE only runs @30fps? but the clouds are superior

[Sinistron]

I played the Genesis Strider and the ACD Strider on the same day-
heard all of this gunk about how Genny's strider has more animation frames and it isn't true.  The blade swing is one frame- it's not there and then it's there- while in the ACD it's two frames.  Yeah- Genny has the parallex- but the lack of it in the PCE doesn't hurt the gameplay.  To me it comes down to flicker (pce) vs. slowdown (genny)- I'll take the flicker.  Then the PCE has the extra board, the cutscenes, and the CD music (which I'm a fan of).  Genny's Strider is overhyped all because of some shitty parallex.

[nat]

I'm currently digging the Playstation port, which as far as I can tell, is basically identical to the arcade.

[Sinistron]

Yeah being that I do own a PS1 and it's been collecting crazy dust- I should clean it up and bust out some nice classics like Strider.

[nat]

I still have never played the PCE version. Maybe if Dean's got it available on that next sale...

[Kitsunexus]

With LOT, I played the Sega CD version 4 years before I even touched the Super CD version. So I was adjusted to the music of the Sega CD version even though the Super CD version sounded cleaner. Of course after owning the Super CD version for a while and playing it more I now look both remixes a lot. I still like the rougher Sega CD music a slight bit more since it sounds like a band just jamming to a live recording. As for the graphics, I have to admit the Genesis version can make you go "yuck!!" here and there.

Why not just burn an ISO of the PCE game with the SEGA CD music?

[PCEngineHell]

I played the Genesis Strider and the ACD Strider on the same day-
heard all of this gunk about how Genny's strider has more animation frames and it isn't true.  The blade swing is one frame- it's not there and then it's there- while in the ACD it's two frames.  Yeah- Genny has the parallex- but the lack of it in the PCE doesn't hurt the gameplay.  To me it comes down to flicker (pce) vs. slowdown (genny)- I'll take the flicker.  Then the PCE has the extra board, the cutscenes, and the CD music (which I'm a fan of).  Genny's Strider is overhyped all because of some shitty parallex.

Oh it isn't just all that either. In some areas the details are a tad better on PCE,as is the color. The flicker was over exaggerated too at any case. It was not nearly as bad,and def doesn't affect gameplay. I have played through the PCE version about 6-7 times. Def my preferred version other then the PS1 port.

[GUTS]

You guys are crazy, the PCE Strider has some awful, awful collision detection and the graphics are terrible.  The Genesis port isn't exactly perfect, but the parallax looks nice and the hit detection is miles better too, plus on top of it all the PCE version is ultra easy and can be cleared basically on your first try.  I went through a binge where I beat all 3 versions (PS1 port too) in a row, and the PCE was definitely inferior, the only thing it had going for it was the extra (really lame and boring) level and the decent ending.

[SNKNostalgia]

With LOT, I played the Sega CD version 4 years before I even touched the Super CD version. So I was adjusted to the music of the Sega CD version even though the Super CD version sounded cleaner. Of course after owning the Super CD version for a while and playing it more I now look both remixes a lot. I still like the rougher Sega CD music a slight bit more since it sounds like a band just jamming to a live recording. As for the graphics, I have to admit the Genesis version can make you go "yuck!!" here and there.

Why not just burn an ISO of the PCE game with the SEGA CD music?

Haha, I actually thought of doing that at times. One thing though is that the tracks have to be exactly the same length so it will take some tedious editing since the system reads a CD like a HD instead of track by track. At least, there is still the site with the right cue files out there. What is funny is that it would be real easy to port over the Duo music over to the Sega CD since it just reads only by track numbers.

[Joe Redifer]

I think it is funny how dedicated PCE fans refer to parallax scrolling as "shitty" and say it doesn't affect the gameplay and is therefore unnecessary.  If that's the case, neither do colors or redrawn graphics.  In fact, the NES is plenty good enough for all of our gaming needs.  Fuck the PCE, it only has extra colors which don't affect the gameplay... HOW USELESS!!!!!     Again it is just an excuse by PCE apologists.

[OldRover]

Ah, stuff it, Genesis apologist!

[Tatsujin]

but the PCE Strider definitely runs on a lower frame rate than the MD one. maybe 30fps vs. 60fps. that what bothers me the most about the ACD version.

[CrackTiger]

I played the Genesis Strider and the ACD Strider on the same day-
heard all of this gunk about how Genny's strider has more animation frames and it isn't true.  The blade swing is one frame- it's not there and then it's there- while in the ACD it's two frames.  Yeah- Genny has the parallex- but the lack of it in the PCE doesn't hurt the gameplay.  To me it comes down to flicker (pce) vs. slowdown (genny)- I'll take the flicker.  Then the PCE has the extra board, the cutscenes, and the CD music (which I'm a fan of).  Genny's Strider is overhyped all because of some shitty parallex.

The biggest problem I have with the port of Strider on ACD is the scrolling. Whether the fps is sub-60 or its just poorly animated scrolling, or whatever... it doesn't move right. Secondly, it has some pretty awful use of color for a PCE game. The same arcade-like detail would've been nice, static bgs and all, if it only the game had smooth scrolling and vibrant colors. I have no problem with the easy difficulty since I found the PSP port of the arcade artificially difficult by cheapness.

I don't have a problem with slowdown or flicker in games if it doesn't ruin the game.

The Megadrive version may have some pretty simplified art compared to the arcade original and PCE version, but it still looks nice. The colors are pretty faithful to the arcade and everything else is nice and balanced without any major flaws. Any of its minor shortcomings aren't noticible since its a consistant port overall. If the MD version didn't have any parallax it'd still be a good port/game*.

I think that the ACD version is still a decent game *if you're a fan of Strider (I'm not), but the MD version isn't bad at all and was very well done for its time.

[Joe Redifer]

I just got done playing both.  You know what I realized?  I realized that Strider is a mediocre game, even in the arcade.  All home versions of Strider are also mediocre.  Now on with the comparisons:

Genesis version
Played on NORMAL difficulty.  The Genesis has some redrawn graphics that resemble the original artwork in many places.  The colors are very bright and look nice.  The scrolling ranges between smooth and decent.  Only one frame of animation when he swings his sword.  Some flicker here and there and some major slowdown on the robo-dino at the end of stage four.  Plays and sounds pretty much like the arcade for the most part.  The gap in the beginning of stage 4 is very hard to jump (I used to have this figured out, but can't remember).  The voices are missing from the cut scenes.  Has parallax scrolling but is missing a layer since the arcade had 3 BGs in a few places.  Game is responsive but still not a bucket full of fun.  It's in MONO!

PC Engine Arcade Card CD version
Played on NORMAL difficulty and turned the crappy extra stage OFF.  Some of the graphics are drawn more closely to the original arcade artwork, but only some.  Most are redrawn and look much simpler.  Colors are dark, bland and look unpleasant for the most part.  The scrolling is of a lower frame rate than the Genesis version and it is weird.  Two frames of animation when he swings his sword, but if you swing repeatedly he slides wherever he is going and never moves his legs.  No major slowdown, but there is a ton of flicker when fighting the robo-dino at the end of stage four.  It is so bad that your character disappears COMPLETELY during the fight if you are standing on the ground, yet you still have control and the battle is still active.  You must guess where your character is.  So yes, the flicker definitely affects the gameplay here.  The gap in the beginning of stage four is easy to get across.  Has new cut scenes and characters talk during the stage (which can be skipped, fortunately).  No parallax scrolling except for a few clouds in stage 3.  Enemy bullets travel extremely slow making them a bitch to get around.  Gameplay feels very different than the arcade and control is slippery.  The game also seems slower.  Has CD music, but most of it is average and there are a few missing tunes.  The music in Strider wasn't all that great to begin with, though.  It's missing the air probes that try to shoot you as you climb up in midway through stage 3.  Props must be given for the option to turn off the shitty extra stage which I hate, mainly due to it's ugliness and how out-of-place it feels... he goes from Russia to a hot desert and then back to snowy Russia again.  WTF?  Difference between normal sword and long sword is minimal and barely existent.  Not sure why the ACD card is needed.

I'm sure there is more I'm forgetting.

[CrackTiger]

Joe, did you play the actual Genesis/U.S. version? As I'm sure you know, the japanese version has more voices and possibly other stuff.

[Joe Redifer]

I played the Japanese version (I own both it and the US version).  The US version has a continue feature.

[Ceti Alpha]

I remember first seeing Strider at lunch time at my friend's house. While I was visually impressed by the game, I felt that the gameplay was really awkward. The only Strider I have right now is for the GBA and it's pretty much a completely different game. It's on that Capcom Mini Classics cartridge - Mighty Final Fight and Bionic Commando are the other games. Of the three Bionic Commando gets the most play, though Final Fight is a close second. I rarely play Strider.

[GUTS]

A big part of how much fun you have with Strider is how cool you think the game is- if the main character was a towel-snapping naked guy instead of a total badass, laser-sword swinging super ninja most people would write the game off as totally mediocre and nobody would have fond memories of it (well I would, but I'm weird).  The fact that Strider is so fucking cool makes the game more fun than it really is, which is part of the reason I really like it.  I agree that it's not the greatest game, in fact it has quite a few problems, but everything is just so damn cool (gorilla robots, russians, dinosaurs) that it elevates the game from mediocre to awesome in my opinion.

Plus back in the day the graphics were really impressive, mainly due to the nice use of color and HUGE sprites.

[Tatsujin]

hiryû strider definitely is cool. tougth it doesn't play that well on any platforms, but the coolness factor is such high, that it definitely rox. as the arcade as well on the MD.

all the more its's a shame, they totally messed up the ACD version due to a overall sloppy production. if they would've spent the wohle effort for those unnecessary custom-levels as well the cut-scenes, into the main-game (clean programming, dynamic etc.), it may be would resemble to the arcade pendant, as much as forgotten world did, or even more!

[OldRover]

I sort of liked Strider. It had a nice fast-paced feel to it and it wasn't overly complicated. I always felt that the Genesis version had a distinct advantage. The PCE version just doesn't quite feel right...plus there's a part that I simply can't pass, and that pissed me off so bad that I turned the disc into a frisbee. The missing music kinda bugged me too. And...the extra stage is indeed ultra-lame.

[Joe Redifer]

I noticed that even in the Genesis version Hiryu likes to freeze for a nanosecond sometimes, as does the rest of the action onscreen.  The PCE version does this for longer, but only when the music is switching.  Don't tell me they were using bank switching in a wimpy 8-meg cart!

[TurboXray]

If we include SuperGrafx, we can include the 32X.

No you can't. 32x and PC-FX on the same level. Genesis/MD with PCE/SGX/SCD. An SGX is just a PCE with extra BG/sprites. A 32x has two additional 32bit CPUs, 2 additional should channels, and a whole new style video display with hicolor palette.

 What part of Ys III have you seen that run into 15fps? None of the areas I tested were that low.

 Valis III on MD is awesome. I was surprised they kept the cinemas on the cart. The music for the MD is great. PCE>MD but sometimes I'd rather play the MD 'cause I love the way music sounds (plus it's easy). (Played the Genesis version first)

 Air Buster/Aero Blaster - tough call. I really like the MD music. MD>PCE 'cause of bigger sprites and music that just fits the MD. The PCE card is still great though (definitely a top list hucard). (Played the Genesis version first)

 Ghouls 'N Ghosts - SGX>MD. Lots of reasons, but mainly... 'cause the tree's animation in the MD version look really ghey. (Played the Genesis version first)

 Valis I - PCE>MD. I forget why, but it's just better. Something about the MD version I didn't care for. (Played the PCECD version first)

 Forgotten Worlds - PCE>MD. The PCE port is nice, especially for an NEC port. The MD version looks like they didn't even try. A MD version with the same love they did with Strider would have been nice.

 Strider - MD>PCE. Oh god, the ACD version sucks bad. Nothing to do with the static BGs, it just sucks. It fails from the many small details. Plus, that game is not originally from the release date it was released. I posted on this a while back.
 
 Mercs - MD>PCE. Oh wait, they didn't port Mercs to PCECD. Too bad.

 Ys III - PCE>SFC<MD. The music and cinemas give the edge, but mostly 'cause it was on TGCD and it was the first version I played. Even the crappy voice parts gave it an edge. I adored it when it first came out. The scrolling never bothered me back then and the parallax was certainly welcomed.

 DS:LOH - PCE>MD. I'm just guess on this one. I really want to play through the MD version, though. I love the cutesy style gfx of the PCE version (looks like falcom style) over what I've seen on the MD version.

 Devils Crush - PCE>MD. They could have just matched the PCE's res, but nooooo. The decide to "squish" the screen instead and add a side bar.

[Sinistron]

I think it is funny how dedicated PCE fans refer to parallax scrolling as "shitty" and say it doesn't affect the gameplay and is therefore unnecessary. 

What I said about the shitty parallex (it really isn't all that impressive in Genny's version anyway) was that was why the Genny version was overhyped.  Coupled with the things I've said- which you affirmed- the slowdown and the lesser of the animation frames- I don't feel that that (parallex) alone pushes it past the PCE version.  You're right about the flicker in the PCE version- can see why some might find it a problem- and for being on an ACD it is a WTF kind of thing. 

It's not a hating on Genesis thing either- though I do think Genesis is balls compared to PCE.  I find that the parallex in a game like Sonic is completely called for and enhances it wildly coupled with the fast and smooth gameplay.

There are many instances when I find parallex to completely enhance the feel of the game (new adventure island coming quickly to mind)- Genny Strider isn't one of them.  Then there are other instances- where parallex (along with graphics and soundtrack) are all the game has to offer- totally devoid of gameplay- Shadow of the Beast falls here.

[ccovell]

It all comes down to opinion, then.  There are points in the game where the parallax in Genny Strider (and the arcade) make the game a thing of beauty -- for example in Siberia, where you can see distant snow-capped mountains in the distance while the snow-covered tree branches pass before them on the mountain slope.  Or the clouds in the sky fortress which scroll behind the whole mess.  Etc, etc.

[Sinistron]

Oh it's absolutely opinion.  If it's a "transporting" feeling kind of thing- I find the CD music in the ACD to be more transporting then the parallex in the Genesis version.  Also- and perhaps why I'm not impressed with the Genny parallex- the BG graphics in PCE Strider in most places more resemble the arcade than the Genny version.  Even the gamespy page on Strider shows this clearly.  Genesis practically had parallex in their games by default- I'm not impressed- especially after reading practically everwhere how the Genesis version annihilates the PCE version.  Playing it- it felt kind of grubby and jerky- not as fun as it should have felt.  The arcade however- that was one of my favorites.

[GUTS]

Parallax should be in every game, even tetris.

[nat]

I could never get into Minesweeper because it doesn't have any parallax.

[Ceti Alpha]

I could never get into Minesweeper because it doesn't have any parallax.

LMFAO!!  Just imagine Minesweeper with the added power of Blast Processing. 

[Nazi NecroPhile]

LMFAO!!  Just imagine Minesweeper with the added power of Blast Processing. 

Fuck that - gimme some Mode 7 Minesweeper.

[Joe Redifer]

I don't think anyone ever hyped MD Strider due to the parallax.  It was hyped due to the sheer 8 MEGA POWER.  Nobody can compete with that.  Anyway read all of the old mags at the time.  What did they talk about?  8 MEGA POWER.  Parallax on the Genesis is a given since it was one of the few things thoughtfully built into the hardware.

PS - I could never get into Tetris because it didn't have the color capabilities of the PC Engine.

[Kitsunexus]

Fuck that - gimme some Mode 7 Minesweeper.

I'm holding out for either Mindsweeper FX or SVP Minesweeper. 

[Sinistron]

I don't think anyone ever hyped MD Strider due to the parallax. 

I don't mean at the time of its release- I mean after- and in comparison to the ACD version.