What options are available for managing & backing up Game Saves?(in HuCard form)

[dhowerter]

Hi there  O:)

Two main questions here.


What I want to know is:

1.    - the various options (various available HuCard type products) for *backing up game save data* (on my USA TG16 with Turbo Booster PLUS and I have a PCE-->TG16 chip converter if it's necessary)


So far, the only one I know about is the Tennokoe Bank Hucard (powered by a battery, not a capacitor or some other kind of memory, correct?)


Any other Hucard type products you would care to recommend for this purpose?





and also I wanted to know: (perhaps even more important)

2.    - the options (various HuCard type products) to simply MANAGE game save data (that is, to be able to SEE and DELETE game save files, as well as see their NAMES, FILE SIZE, and AVAILABLE MEMORY LEFT)

and without having to wait until the memory runs out of space to do that ^^ (Order of the Griffon and Falcon ;)

Normally, I would just go get a cheap System card 2.0 for this except someone mentioned before that it does not show the file SIZES or how much memory is left -_-      (only file names, that IS correct, yes?)


BTW, the Tennokoe Bank DOES let you view and delete in the Turbo Booster PLUS memory with ALL of the following, correct? 
        File name, File SIZE, Available memory left
     

If the battery in the Tennokoe Bank dies, would I still be able to view / delete game save data in the Turbo Booster Plus? (or doees it stop working completely if the battery goes)

    I would be using anything you recommend on my USA TG 16 with Turbo Booster PLUS. (and if necessary, my PCE-->TG16 chip converter)
     
 (those 2 functionalities #1 and #2 may or may not be in the same card tho ;)

Please recommend away ^_^

[nat]

The Ten No Koe lets you view the file names on your TurboBooster Plus, but not file sizes.

There a utility called the BRAM Utility that does everything you asked about though-- it lists file names, sizes, how much memory is being used, and how much is free. It also lets you duplicate individual files and even edit the data, IIRC. I love it.

The catch is that you have to have a flash cartridge to use it since it's not available on any commercial HuCards. (You download the utility from the web, then load it on the flash cart via your USB port on your computer, then use the flash cart in your system.)

[NecroPhile]

Weren't these questions answered in the other thread?

1.    - the various options (various available HuCard type products) for *backing up game save data* (on my USA TG16 with Turbo Booster PLUS and I have a PCE-->TG16 chip converter if it's necessary)

So far, the only one I know about is the Tennokoe Bank Hucard

The Tennokoe Bank is your only option for making a portable back-up of your save files (outside of manually writing down hex data), as it's the only card that consoles can write data to.  Mr. Covell's BRAM Tool (mentioned in your other thread and also by nat above) will let you make a back-up of a file before editing (in case you make an error that renders the file unusable), but that back-up will reside in the console's memory as the console can't flash the flash cart.

(powered by a battery, not a capacitor or some other kind of memory, correct?)

As mentioned in the other thread, it is indeed powered by a battery.  It's a button type battery that hides under the raised portion of the HuCard and can be replaced if necessary.

2.    - the options (various HuCard type products) to simply MANAGE game save data (that is, to be able to SEE and DELETE game save files, as well as see their NAMES, FILE SIZE, and AVAILABLE MEMORY LEFT)

and without having to wait until the memory runs out of space to do that ^^ (Order of the Griffon and Falcon ;)

Normally, I would just go get a cheap System card 2.0 for this except someone mentioned before that it does not show the file SIZES or how much memory is left -_-      (only file names, that IS correct, yes?)

BRAM Tool is pretty much the only option that'll reveal such data without waiting; there are a few CD games that have file utilities, but I don't know of any other HuCards.  And yes, the system cards (and Tennokoe Bank) will only show the file name and not the file size or the amount of available memory.
    

If the battery in the Tennokoe Bank dies, would I still be able to view / delete game save data in the Turbo Booster Plus? (or doees it stop working completely if the battery goes).

I haven't tried it, but there's no reason that the HuCard would be unable to boot and function properly.  Of course, as soon as you turn it off any swapped banks will be lost.

[dhowerter]

There a utility called the BRAM Utility that does everything you asked about though-- it lists file names, sizes, how much memory is being used, and how much is free. It also lets you duplicate individual files and even edit the data, IIRC. I love it.

The catch is that you have to have a flash cartridge to use it since it's not available on any commercial HuCards. (You download the utility from the web, then load it on the flash cart via your USB port on your computer, then use the flash cart in your system.)

Hmmm interesting..

1. How much does a TG16 / PCE flash cart cost?
 
2. Anyone know of any good reliable places to buy one?

3. Would I need to use my pce--> tg16 converter for it?
 (Is it a "Japanese" or "USA" chip, so to speak?)

4. Anybody have the link for this BRAM Utility?

5. Does anyone have a link to a Tennokoe Bank Battery Replacement FAQ / Guide? (someone mentioned there is one in my previous thread)

6. Finally, do you need any kind of special tool (like a gamebit) to OPEN the Tennokoe Bank? How DO you open the thing? ;-)
    (If it's anything like a normal chip game, I don't see any obvious ways to open it :-)

[nat]

There a utility called the BRAM Utility that does everything you asked about though-- it lists file names, sizes, how much memory is being used, and how much is free. It also lets you duplicate individual files and even edit the data, IIRC. I love it.

The catch is that you have to have a flash cartridge to use it since it's not available on any commercial HuCards. (You download the utility from the web, then load it on the flash cart via your USB port on your computer, then use the flash cart in your system.)

Hmmm interesting..

1. How much does a TG16 / PCE flash cart cost?
2. Anyone know of any good reliable places to buy one?

There are three models available:

Tototek 32M Flash Cart - $115 (Parallel interface)
Neo Flash 64M Flash Cart - $109 (USB interface)
Neo Flash 128M Flash Cart - $149 (USB interface)

I have the second one, the Neo 64M cart. It's awesome, works perfectly. A very small number of people have received defective carts from the manufacturer, but Neo Team will replace them in this scenario.

3. Would I need to use my pce--> tg16 converter for it?
 (Is it a "Japanese" or "USA" chip, so to speak?)

It can be either. You can set the region of the flash cart youself. So no, you won't have to use a region adapter.

4. Anybody have the link for this BRAM Utility?

Click here and scroll down to "BRAM Tool." Click on the screenshot image to download the utility.

[Joe Redifer]

How can you move saves to and fro with a Flash card?

[nat]

You can't, but my information is for #2 from his original post-- how to simply "manage" save game data:

2.    - the options (various HuCard type products) to simply MANAGE game save data (that is, to be able to SEE and DELETE game save files, as well as see their NAMES, FILE SIZE, and AVAILABLE MEMORY LEFT)

[Joe Redifer]

But I am going by this:

It also lets you duplicate individual files

There wouldn't be any point to that if they both exist in the same place.

[nat]

But I am going by this:

It also lets you duplicate individual files

There wouldn't be any point to that if they both exist in the same place. 

Not true.

BRAM Tool includes an editor that allows you to edit the data contained in the save game files.

The duplication function is useful in that you can make a copy of a file before you go in and edit it so you have a backup if something goes awry.

[NecroPhile]

6. Finally, do you need any kind of special tool (like a gamebit) to OPEN the Tennokoe Bank? How DO you open the thing? ;-)
    (If it's anything like a normal chip game, I don't see any obvious ways to open it :-)

Unfortunately they're not screwed together, but rather glued.  I've had my Populous card apart to peak under its cap (which is identical to the Tennokoe Bank), and it wasn't that difficult to pry it open with a small screwdriver and a lot of patience.

[dhowerter]

6. Finally, do you need any kind of special tool (like a gamebit) to OPEN the Tennokoe Bank? How DO you open the thing? ;-)
    (If it's anything like a normal chip game, I don't see any obvious ways to open it :-)

Unfortunately they're not screwed together, but rather glued.  I've had my Populous card apart to peak under its cap (which is identical to the Tennokoe Bank), and it wasn't that difficult to pry it open with a small screwdriver and a lot of patience.

Wow. OK thanks for all the info :-) Flash carts are kinda expensive tho for just running the BRAM tool tho (and I doubt anyone here will encourage me to play PCE roms on this thing ;) Not sure what I'm going to do there.
     (Any other place have them for cheaper?)




TO Necromancer / ALL:

Since it seems like a Tennokoe Bank does exactly what a system card does anyway (in terms of data management), I might as well get a Tennokoe to back up data.

SO a few burning questions ;) :


1. Once you open a Tennokoe Bank, how do you close it again? ^_^ (reglue it or does it snap shut?)

2. Does anybody have the link to that Tennokoe Bank Battery Replacement FAQ? (I think it MIGHT come in handy ;)

3. What is the designation of the little round battery inside the Tennokoe?       (like for example CR2032 is the one inside the Sega Saturn)

3. Finally, anybody know any good reliable places to buy a Tennokoe Bank? (please list the one with the cheapest price you know of, I may buy 2 ;)


     I figure if I back up the Turbo Booster Plus memory to TWO Tennokoe Banks, the odds of both of them dying at the same time is low ;)

  (also maybe I can have one store the memory while I ahem.. try to replace the battery on the second one :-D

[termis]

A possible future option for you might be nanami bank (I say future because you need a CD-based system to use nanami bank).  This is a true, permanent option, storing any TG16/PCE save files on your computer/CD-R.  No worries about batteries dying on the tennokoe bank -- but there are some drawbacks.

I brought up nanami bank on a few threads, including this one. 
https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=5467.0

[Joe Redifer]

BRAM Tool includes an editor that allows you to edit the data contained in the save game files.

The duplication function is useful in that you can make a copy of a file before you go in and edit it so you have a backup if something goes awry.

Indeed, but how would the game know which file to load, especially since many games only save a single file?  Or does it let you rename the file as well?  That way you could name the save file as TELNETMEDCR92 and the unaltered file as BACKUP LOL for the game "Telenet Medocrity Fest '92"

[ccovell]

The BRAM tool makes a backup of individual files, and renames them with filenames that have an ever-increasing name/number.  This means that backups don't have the same name as the originals, and that you can backup the same file twice, three times, etc.



You can even backup a backup ad infinitum.  But that would be silly.



PCE ROM available here: https://www.chrismcovell.com/creations.html

I've been busy doing other programming projects, but I've been thinking about putting this on an ISO for easy burning to a PCE-CD.  Would anyone use this ?

[Joe Redifer]

You can even backup a backup ad infinitum.  But that would be silly.

Yes it definitely would be as there isn't room for an infinite amount of saves unless the tool transfers those saves to a PC.

I like how the BRAM tool gives the available size as $$$ amounts.  Do I have to pay Chris for the save real estate on my TurboCD?

[dhowerter]

The BRAM tool makes a backup of individual files, and renames them with filenames that have an ever-increasing name/number.  This means that backups don't have the same name as the originals, and that you can backup the same file twice, three times, etc.



You can even backup a backup ad infinitum.  But that would be silly.



PCE ROM available here: https://www.chrismcovell.com/creations.html

I've been busy doing other programming projects, but I've been thinking about putting this on an ISO for easy burning to a PCE-CD.  Would anyone use this ?

I'm interested in the BRAM tool (just for managing save game data and seeing the file SIZES, not editing it tho), but that screenshot of it has me confused 

For example, it lists the size of the Coryoon save as "24"
    I assume that is 24 units (the unit of measurement for save game sizes; with around 2000 units total for CD system save space or a Turbo Booster Plus),   correct?

BUT then "Falcon.His" has a size of "4C" O_O or Dracula X has a size of "A0"!!
     How can you have a size of 4C?? (it's supposed to be a number) How do you convert that into the numerical normal save units?

PLease help! -_- Thanks.

[Joe Redifer]

I can't remember the term for such digits, but it goes from 0-9 and then from A to F.  So A=10 and F=15.  0 is also considered a number to that's 16 digits to choose from.  It doesn't do any good for the user to see sizes represented in this manner.

If you want a better way to see the file sizes and have access to a CD-ROM, get Valis 4 (Japan only) as it has this built in and the display and representation of sizes is much cleaner and more well thought out:

[nat]

It's hexadecimal.

4C = 76 bytes

"BRAM SIZE: $0800" = 2,048 bytes

[dhowerter]

ALL -

OK.. well I can't use Valis 4 because I don't have a Turbo / PCE CD-ROM drive.



That being said, maybe I can use Order of the Griffon HuCard to see the file sizes.

BUT I had a question about that.

If you look here: https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=974.0

in the first post you will see a screenshot of OOTG asking if you want to delete ONE specific file.

My questions:
   1. Does it keep asking you if you would like to delete EACH save file in memory until you go through them ALL? (if you select NO) ie. in some kind of order maybe from largest file to smallest?
       OR does it just ask about one file (the largest?) and that is it?

   2. Does it stop asking the moment you clear enough save space for the OOTG save file? (412 units)

   3. Does Falcon (the other hucard that tellls you file sizes) work the same way?

[dhowerter]

Can anyone who knows (or who has Order of the Griffon) please answer my OOTG questions above?

This might be the best way for me to see save file sizes (with cd drive of any type), so I'd like to understand how it works. 

Thanks!

[NecroPhile]

1. Does it keep asking you if you would like to delete EACH save file in memory until you go through them ALL? (if you select NO) ie. in some kind of order maybe from largest file to smallest? OR does it just ask about one file (the largest?) and that is it?

It keeps asking about each file in memory in the order that it was created (the same order that they appear when viewed from a system card).

2. Does it stop asking the moment you clear enough save space for the OOTG save file? (412 units)

Yes.

3. Does Falcon (the other hucard that tellls you file sizes) work the same way?

Not really; Falcon's memory manager shows up as soon as the card boots and finds the memory is full.  It bears a passing resemblance to the following:

*****************************
*****************************
**THERE IS NOT ENOUGH SPACE*****
**TO SAVE GAMES IN SRAM********
*****************************
**CHOOSE FILES TO ERASE OR******
**PRESS SELECT TO IGNORE SRAM***
      --------------------------
     |   FILENAME              SIZE    |     
     | >XZR_DATA_3           112<   |
     |   XZR_DATA_2           112    |
     |   XZR_DATA_1           112    |
***|   DRACULA X              160   |*** 
***|   GODZILLA.X              20   |***
***|----------------------------|***
***|   SIZE NEEDED             14   |***
***------------------------------***

Tremble before my mighty ascii skillz! 

It's a very utilitarian looking screen (black and white no less).  You scroll up/down to see the other save files, press RUN when you find one to sacrifice, it gets deleted (without confirmation of your selection), and the game starts like normal.

[Bigdog302]

can you still buy the neoflash 64 and 128? that is one of the coolest things i have ever seen.there is many times i have been playing a hu card game in magic engine and wished i could play it on real hardware.

[dhowerter]

1. Does it keep asking you if you would like to delete EACH save file in memory until you go through them ALL? (if you select NO) ie. in some kind of order maybe from largest file to smallest? OR does it just ask about one file (the largest?) and that is it?

It keeps asking about each file in memory in the order that it was created (the same order that they appear when viewed from a system card).

2. Does it stop asking the moment you clear enough save space for the OOTG save file? (412 units)

Yes.

3. Does Falcon (the other hucard that tellls you file sizes) work the same way?

Not really; Falcon's memory manager shows up as soon as the card boots and finds the memory is full.  It bears a passing resemblance to the following:

*****************************
*****************************
**THERE IS NOT ENOUGH SPACE*****
**TO SAVE GAMES IN SRAM********
*****************************
**CHOOSE FILES TO ERASE OR******
**PRESS SELECT TO IGNORE SRAM***
      --------------------------
     |   FILENAME              SIZE    |     
     | >XZR_DATA_3           112<   |
     |   XZR_DATA_2           112    |
     |   XZR_DATA_1           112    |
***|   DRACULA X              160   |*** 
***|   GODZILLA.X              20   |***
***|----------------------------|***
***|   SIZE NEEDED             14   |***
***------------------------------***

Tremble before my mighty ascii skillz! 

It's a very utilitarian looking screen (black and white no less).  You scroll up/down to see the other save files, press RUN when you find one to sacrifice, it gets deleted (without confirmation of your selection), and the game starts like normal.

Heh. Your ASCII skills are quite nice actually 




Three more Order of the Griffon questions:
 
1.    In the screenshot of OOTG I linked to 
    (  https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=974.0  )


it says it needs 412 units to save, but in the game save FAQ
    (  http://turbo.mindrec.com/files/gamesave.faq  )

it says that Order of the Griffon needs 412 units to save AND it lets you create 4 save files

SO does EACH of the 4 OOTG save files take up 412 units? or is 412 all 4 together?
 
2. If you had lets say, 2 OOTG save files in memory, would it STILL be 412 units? or half that? (206 units)


3. I figure that if I wanted to manage my saves using OOTG, I could *FORCE* the Order of the Griffon "Delete menu" (the menu in the screenshot that asks you if you want to delete the files) to come up by doing this:
        I could simply start playing OOTG for a few minutes, then save , then move to a new location and then save again and repeat that until I ran out of room ;), thus causing the menu to pop up.

   Would that work? If not, could you recommend another way to get the OOTG delete menu to pop up when you want it to?

[nat]

can you still buy the neoflash 64 and 128? that is one of the coolest things i have ever seen.there is many times i have been playing a hu card game in magic engine and wished i could play it on real hardware.

Of course you can still buy them. I even posted links earlier in this thread.

[Bigdog302]

i cannot seem to join there at the ic 2005 place at all,even though i have filled out the form properly.do they have a email they can be reached at? i have tried using both IE and firefox as a web browser but it says "make sure you fill out the form".even though every field with a red asterisk is filled out and everything is legit.do they have a phone number to call for ordering?

[NecroPhile]

1.    In the screenshot of OOTG I linked to it says it needs 412 units to save, but in the game save FAQ it says that Order of the Griffon needs 412 units to save AND it lets you create 4 save files.

SO does EACH of the 4 OOTG save files take up 412 units? or is 412 all 4 together?

Four separate saves of 412 units each.

2. If you had lets say, 2 OOTG save files in memory, would it STILL be 412 units? or half that? (206 units)

You'd have two separate files in memory, with each one taking 412 units.

3. I figure that if I wanted to manage my saves using OOTG, I could *FORCE* the Order of the Griffon "Delete menu" (the menu in the screenshot that asks you if you want to delete the files) to come up by doing this:
        I could simply start playing OOTG for a few minutes, then save , then move to a new location and then save again and repeat that until I ran out of room ;), thus causing the menu to pop up.

   Would that work? If not, could you recommend another way to get the OOTG delete menu to pop up when you want it to?

.

That's exactly what I did to view OOTG's delete menu, though you'll have to have enough other files saved to eat up the remaining 352 units of memory.

[dhowerter]

 ALL:

DOH! I didn't realize a Tennokoe Bank doesn't let you DELETE individual files. Bummer 

Well, OK, I got to get:
    -  a CD System Card 2.0 (for viewing / deleting files) AND
    -  a Tennokoe Bank or 2 (for file storage) AND
    -  Order of the Griffon (USA chip - to see file sizes)

Geez lol. Complicated, isn't it? ^_^





SO a few burning questions here ;) : (about the Tennokoe Bank)


1. Does anybody have the link to a Tennokoe Bank Battery Replacement FAQ IN ENGLISH? (I don't read Japanese)

       (I found a couple FAQs in Japanese; the links to them were actually in the thread someone linked to about the Namami Bank ;)




2. What is the designation of the little round battery inside the Tennokoe?       (like for example CR2032 is the one inside the Sega Saturn)

       a. I think it is CR2320, but I want to confirm that. Is this correct?

       b.  I wanted to replace the battery in the Tennokoe with the exact same battery (a Panasonic CR2320 I think) and I did a little searching for Panasonic CR2320 batteries, but all I could find is Panasonic BR2320 (B instead of C)
     
            Anybody know if BR2320 and CR2320 are exactly the same battery?

 I'm double checking this because I accidentally FRIED my Saturn by replacing the CR2032 battery in it  (which is rechargable) with a DL2032 (which is NOT rechargable -_-)




3. Finally, anybody know any reliable online stores where you can buy a Tennokoe Bank? (please list the one with the cheapest price you know of, I may buy 2 ;)


Thanks!

[dhowerter]

Can anyone who knows about the Tennokoe Bank please answer my Tennokoe Bank questions above? (October 8th post)

  (The *English* battery replacement FAQ, the model number of the battery (and the "BR" question), and perhaps most importantly, the online stores where you can buy a Tennokoe Bank question

Thanks!

[dhowerter]

Can anyone please answer any of the Tennokoe Bank questions in my October 8th post? O:)   (answer any you know)

I'd like to buy one but I need to know the answers to those 3 questions first.
 
 (especially since one of the questions is WHERE online to buy them ;\ - heck, lots of you have a Tennokoe Bank, so I know you got it somewhere ^_^)

And I might also order the replacement batteries now too for the Tennokoe Bank but I need to know what the difference in BR and CR is ;) (see October 8th post for full question)

Thanks!

[ccovell]

Obviously, nobody here knows.  I'd recommend doing an internet search for greater speed about the battery questions.

[dhowerter]

Well, I agree that is possible. Although if someone does know about the battery questions in my October 8th post, please repond ;)

MORE importantly tho, how about my third and most important question,namely: (quoting myself):



"3. Finally, anybody know any reliable online stores where you can buy a Tennokoe Bank? (please list the one with the cheapest price you know of, I may buy 2 ;)"



Lots of people here have Tennokoe Banks; they must have gotten them from somewhere. 

[Ceti Alpha]

http://cgi.ebay.ca/BARGAIN-PC-Engine-Hu-Tennokoe-Bank-Import-JAPAN_W0QQitemZ220292837026QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item220292837026&_trkparms=72%3A1215|39%3A1|66%3A2|65%3A12|240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

http://shop.ebay.ca/items/_W0QQ_nkwZTennokoeQ20BankQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZR40QQ_mdoZ

[NecroPhile]

1. Does anybody have the link to a Tennokoe Bank Battery Replacement FAQ IN ENGLISH? (I don't read Japanese)

I don't have one, but it should be pretty straightforward: pry off the plastic cover, remove battery and replace with new, snap plastic cover back in place.  Most likely the battery is soldered to flat metal leads, so care will be needed to ensure that nothing's damaged from heat while soldering/desoldering.

2. What is the designation of the little round battery inside the Tennokoe?       (like for example CR2032 is the one inside the Sega Saturn)

       a. I think it is CR2320, but I want to confirm that. Is this correct?

Just buy one and take a peak under the hood; it'll be much quicker than waiting eons for someone here to answer (I'd check my own but fear damaging a card that still works).

b.  I wanted to replace the battery in the Tennokoe with the exact same battery (a Panasonic CR2320 I think) and I did a little searching for Panasonic CR2320 batteries, but all I could find is Panasonic BR2320 (B instead of C)
     
            Anybody know if BR2320 and CR2320 are exactly the same battery?

 I'm double checking this because I accidentally FRIED my Saturn by replacing the CR2032 battery in it  (which is rechargable) with a DL2032 (which is NOT rechargable -_-)

It looks like you can get a Panny CR2320 here or here.  If you're not particular about the manufacturer, there's plenty of other sources that can provide a CR2320 battery from various manufacturers.

The difference between CR and BR type batteries is minimal (Klicky VonKlickerson).

3. Finally, anybody know any reliable online stores where you can buy a Tennokoe Bank? (please list the one with the cheapest price you know of, I may buy 2 ;)

Contact Rising Stuff (run by fellow PCFXer Sensei).  Mine came from Ebay; they're always littered with 'em.