REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix

nat · 03/05/2007, 01:35 PM

Actually, I think the general consensus is that if replacing the caps D-Lite described doesn't fix your issue then you might as well go ahead an replace all of them. It shouldn't take too long.

Something else you can try before that: clean the traces around where the suspect caps used to be. Use alcohol and a cotton swab. The nasty gunk those things leak is conductive and just the residuals can cause problems.

raven1280 · 03/05/2007, 02:56 PM

Quote from: nat on 03/05/2007, 01:35 PMSomething else you can try before that: clean the traces around where the suspect caps used to be. Use alcohol and a cotton swab. The nasty gunk those things leak is conductive and just the residuals can cause problems.

Thats a very good thing to do before replacment.

Raven

Duo_R · 03/11/2007, 05:40 PM

So I replaced the caps D-lite said to, but I still had some audio problems. The redbook audio was there, but the CD audio was very faint. I also had alot of static. So I started to replace some more caps. Raven mentioned another cap related to sound. I popped the cap and found this underneath:

/img0138smynf4.th.jpg

Here is another shot: /img0136sm2hf3.th.jpg

I used some solvent cleaner to get it to this:

/img0139smjp0.th.jpg

I then soldered on the new cap. The cap that replaced the old leaking one was a 22uf 35V from Radio Shack.

/img0142hj8.jpg

you can also see the other caps I replaced. Here is an update to D-Lite's image to show all the cap values (since some people keep asking). I used the same uf values, but substituted 35v caps from Radio Shack. The cap I replaced that leaked will be easier to install by removing the metal shield for your Duo.

/r9x600copyxo4.jpg

geise · 03/12/2007, 12:03 PM

Thank you so much for posting your information. I replaced the two post op amp and pre amp caps, but didn't know what the other one was as well. Now that I know what you used I'll see if I can get those caps and see if that will work. Thanks again for the info!

termis · 03/12/2007, 02:27 PM

Good info to have for sure. Thx

Duo_R · 03/13/2007, 01:41 AM

No problem guys, all I did was just built on what D-Lite started.

Quote from: thumpin_termis on 03/12/2007, 02:27 PMGood info to have for sure. Thx

geise · 04/16/2007, 10:46 AM

First off I'm sorry to bump an old thread, but this is usually a thread that needs bumping. Second, I'd like to thank everyone for their info on getting sound to work on their Duo's. Yesterday I FINALL GOT THE SOUND ON MY DUO FIXED!!!!! It was so nice popping in Ys and having the intro music play again. I was having the problem of no cd audio playing what so ever, so I replaced the 10uf 16v caps D-Lite mentioned and still had no sound. Then Duo_R mentioned the other 22uf 16v caps he replaced with 35v caps and got his sound to work. Well after I replace the two 22uf 16v caps, BAM! Sound is now working again. Thanks again guys for all your help and info. Now if you'll excuse me it's time to rock out some Lords of Thunder!

Duo_R · 04/18/2007, 11:07 PM

YS was the first CD game I ever heard...I remember when I first popped it in and saw the intro. The music blew me away. Fifteen years later it wasn't as dramatic with little or no audio, but after this fix I again popped in YS and it was like watching it for the first time again. I was blown away to hear sound on my Duo again! YS is a good one to kick off the fixed audio!

SNKNostalgia · 04/24/2007, 06:49 PM

Well, well, well!!! So I buy me a copy of Last Alert for my US Duo after not playing my system for almost a year it seems. Guess what happens after just 1 hour of game play. Fading sound from the CD audio. My Duo is practically new, I got it new in 2000 -01 or so from TZD.

Anyways, atleast I know I can fix it easily. What exact screwdriver do I need? Someone please link me to a legit site that sells for it for a decent price. Also, is it the right one to open Nintendo systems and carts? Much appreciated.

geise · 04/24/2007, 08:47 PM

The screwdriver I used I bought from here http://www.ncsxshop.com/cgi-bin/shop/NUS-45MM.html They are a very legit company. Hope this helps.

SNKNostalgia · 04/25/2007, 08:41 PM

I went ahead and bought the two different 4.5mm and the 3.8mm gamebits with a Nintendo full repair kit. It includes cart cleaning paste/solution, 72pin connector for the NES and some cloths. I got it from Nintendorepair.com. Cost me like $30.00 total. The cleaning paste is really good for removing the oxidation off any carts/Hucards.

Atleast I know my Duo will be running like new again after this. I swear this is like an epidemic with the Duo systems. Apparently all of them are destined to be doomed. I knew I should have gotten an R/RX or just added to my regular TG-16 I had for 17 years.

klausien · 05/14/2007, 09:12 AM

First post on this forum!

Just needed to say THANK YOU D-LITE! You've saved my Duo and two TurboExpresses with your sound fix!

I noticed that my Duo was acting up while I was showing Fighting Street to a friend a few months ago. I don't play my Duo all that often, so I wrote it off. I went back to play it after acquiring ACD Strider last week, and the sound was acting like problem #2 to a tee. CD music cutting in and out, scratchy when it returns, before dropping out again.

I had previously done 2 TurboExpress repairs so, undaunted, I went and got the caps for the Duo. Worked like a charm!

I can't thank you enough!

OldRover · 05/17/2007, 10:20 PM

The TurboDuo itself seems to be very prone to audio problems, it seems. Glad I own a briefcase.

The drive might be slower and more prone to audio track cutout due to bumps but I've heard next to nothing about audio problems with the older setup.

The 4.5mm Gamebit seems to be the one that works with NEC's consoles. If I remember correctly, it should also open the Gamecube. I don't know offhand what uses the 3.8mm bit. Genesis carts seem to require a Gamebit as well.

Platinumfungi · 06/10/2007, 05:56 PM

Are there any other capacitors that deal with the audio besides the four 10uF and the two 22uF mentioned ones? I have a PC Engine Duo that had the audio totally dropping out. I replaced the six capacitors and it's doing much better, but I'm still having some occasional drop out for a second or two and also volume fading at times. Any ideas? I see two more caps that I'll probably replace as they look problematic but I have no idea if they relate to audio or not...

I know I could just replace all the caps but I'd prefer to know which cap is causing the problem.

SNKNostalgia · 06/11/2007, 08:46 AM

Read reply #2 that i made, maybe that will help as well. If all else fails, your still better off replacing them all than forking more money for a new system.

Platinumfungi · 06/11/2007, 08:33 PM

I went ahead and replaced some more caps that looked like they had leaked or are in the general area of the audio caps. So far I've swapped out 10 caps. All games seem to be working pretty well now. Lords of Thunder still has occasional fading and a split second drop out from time to time

I guess I'll just start the shotgun method here pretty soon. I just don't understand why it seems to be specific games that have more problems then others...

SNKNostalgia · 06/12/2007, 06:47 AM

Sounds like a combined lens problem. Also, if there are minor scratches on some discs, the duo still reads them funny since it has non existent error correction in the CD board. Can't hurt to order a Hop-m3 laser from the eletronix website. Think of it as a good future investment for your system.

Platinumfungi · 06/12/2007, 06:12 PM

Thanks for the replies SNK. Now here's something odd. It seems like the system requires about 1.5 minutes for the background audio to kick in at all. Would that be just a further problem or could it be related to anything I have done? I've replaced all the caps that D-Lite mentions, and then the extra ones that Duo R (seems like his name was) mentioned along with a few that just looked like they had dried out.

I think in the end I'll probably get a new laser and replace ALL the caps on this one. I'm fixing it up for a friend and really want it to function properly.

nat · 07/25/2007, 02:02 PM

I have an acient Japanese IFU-30 that is now suffering from #2 (from D-Lite's first post).

The IFU-30 is obviously very different from a Duo. I haven't taken it apart yet, but has anyone ever successfully used D-Lite's method to fix an IFU-30? I've never come across any mention of those decks having this kind of problem. And in my experience, these things have always been damn near bulletproof.

D-Lite · 07/25/2007, 04:55 PM

Quote from: nat on 07/25/2007, 02:02 PMI have an acient Japanese IFU-30 that is now suffering from #2 (from D-Lite's first post).

The IFU-30 is obviously very different from a Duo. I haven't taken it apart yet, but has anyone ever successfully used D-Lite's method to fix an IFU-30? I've never come across any mention of those decks having this kind of problem. And in my experience, these things have always been damn near bulletproof.

Never tried. My problem with the IFU-30 is frequently they just stop recognizing the CD unit altogether. As in, the light's on but no one's home.

nat · 07/25/2007, 05:25 PM

Quote from: D-Lite on 07/25/2007, 04:55 PM
Quote from: nat on 07/25/2007, 02:02 PMI have an acient Japanese IFU-30 that is now suffering from #2 (from D-Lite's first post).

The IFU-30 is obviously very different from a Duo. I haven't taken it apart yet, but has anyone ever successfully used D-Lite's method to fix an IFU-30? I've never come across any mention of those decks having this kind of problem. And in my experience, these things have always been damn near bulletproof.
Never tried. My problem with the IFU-30 is frequently they just stop recognizing the CD unit altogether. As in, the light's on but no one's home.

Hmm... Never had that problem. Maybe I have incredible luck? No, can't be, since I've now got this sound issue with mine. The sound cuts in and out, sounds a bit scratchy sometimes, and has a varying volume level. Sounds like a cookie-cutter case of #2.

Anyone ever taken apart an IFU-30 before?

I suppose it wouldn't be too terribly difficult to figure out assuming the audio circuit is similar. If I can locate the Pre- and Post-Amp caps and just replace them I should be golden.

SMC · 08/02/2007, 04:59 PM

Hey all, another Duo sound repair success story here. About a week ago my duo's cd audio went out while I was playing "Shape Shifter". I came to the forums going to ask for advice, because I thought it might be a common problem. After searching the forums for just a few seconds I happened on this thread. I replaced the four 10uf caps and the two 22uf ones and now everything is as good as new. It's funny I've done mods to just about every cd game system I have and it's still nerve wracking. Personally things seemed to work better for me if I just heated up the old caps and then gently worked the tops of the legs with a pair of pliers, then removed the plastic spacer and desoldered the legs. When I tried it the other way I wound up pulling a trace loose

Anyway everything if fixed now and working great. I want to thank everyone for working out the problem for the rest of us. This thread deserves to be sticky.

SMC · 08/05/2007, 07:39 PM

Now I'm mad. After coming on here and bragging about fixing my duo the cd audio went out on it again today (#1). Guess I'll start replacing more caps.

SNKNostalgia · 08/10/2007, 08:29 PM

I just went ahead and order 2 laser replacements since it is easy and cheap to do. $18.95 per lens at $7.00 shipping. So it cost me $45.00 pretty much to get 2 lasers to last me many years of Duo playtime. The installation is simple:

http://www.teamfremont.com/features/TurboDuoRepair.shtml

SMC · 08/11/2007, 12:48 AM

OK I can see why it might be in the laser. I'll look into it. Thanks.

fabio · 08/30/2007, 08:50 PM

Hey Folks,

I replaced the six suggested caps on my duo and the system sound is very consistent now (it would go out after a while before). The CD audio is where I'm having the problem, though. It is very faint, all though if i turn the volume up, I can tell that it is being output at a consistent level. What do you think the most likely culprit is?

Thanks,

Fabio

SNKNostalgia · 09/01/2007, 03:30 AM

Replace more silver small caps. Especially trying first with the ones to the right of the six you replaced.

Ceti Alpha · 10/02/2007, 08:14 PM

I have the audio problem as well. The sound used to work after a little while, but the problem is just getting worse and worse. Not only that, but I was just playing Nexzr Special and after beating Stage 2 the game brought me back to the beginning of Stage 2 again. After beating Stage 2 for the second time it then skipped Stage 3 and brought me to Stage 4. I've never had any issues with the CD before. Hopefully that's just a fluke.

OK. Well it seems the sound issue is sensitive to touch. What I mean is if I move the Duo around a little sometimes the sound will come back or disappear.

Cleria · 10/15/2007, 12:34 PM

Hey nice work D-Lite.

Now I've got the sound problem myself where you play the game and the audio cuts out.

The thing is I'm way to scared to open up the console and do all that stuff. Is there a way to possibly clean the lens and stuff of the laser?

Cleria · 10/18/2007, 12:27 PM

Gunna throw a few questions...reading 6 pages is a pain.

How do you open the case without destroying the console?
Once you take the little doohickies out and put the new thingermagiggers in, the sound will / should be okay - will there be any other effects? I read that there will be heating or something?
What else will go on?

Just a summary basically would be nice I suppose.

chaoticjelly · 10/18/2007, 06:56 PM

Hey, I made a thread because I solved my PCE Duo's noisy laser problem, and the problem it had where it took a long time to "warm up" before reading CDs.

However in the process the sound through the TV speakers has been knocked out, for HuCards, Music CDs and CD games..

However the audio from the headphone port is perfect.

There was one extra cap on my revision of PCB that wasn't on the total capacitor replacement chart, so I guessed the value (22uF?) based on the values of those caps around it, however its not really that close to the main audio amp.

Anyone any ideas how I can diagnose the problem and regain the audio from the speakers?

All I changed was all the caps.. and 95% sure they are all correct values and orientation... UNLESS, I needed higher voltage ratings on the caps? anyone know what the original caps that surround the main amp are rated at?

chaoticjelly · 10/23/2007, 10:17 PM

After a bit more buggering about I've found that the sound actually works perfectly. The reason it wasn't working was because whilst I replaced the caps, I replaced the AV socket for an 8 pin version. It seems that the pins for audio on the old AV cable dont connect properly.

So its working beautifully actually! Sweet

Windytune · 11/11/2007, 11:33 AM

I just recently bought a PC Engine DUO, and the seller said that the adpcm sound does not work. He said it was the M5205 Oki type chip, so I purchased one, I was just wondering where this sucker goes, and how to put it in, could it be the capacitors as well?

kokuryu · 12/03/2007, 01:51 PM

As many of you already know, I had recently gotten a PCE Duo that the CD sound and the ADPCM sound was not working. Over the weekend I did a ton of capacitor replacement work on the board.

Day 1: When trying to open the unit to take stock about what capacitors I would need to get, after I unscrewed the main cover, a capacitor literally rolled out of the case when I turned the unit upright to remove the top cover. I knew I was in trouble then! But I was also taking this as a good sign that replacing capacitors would be a good thing at this point... Never seen that before - a capacitor rolling out of a unit...

I took stock of the capacitors that I would need, and went to the local Radio Shack. I had to settle for a mixed bag for the type of capacitors - radial, non, polarized and non.

I took it slow and replaced the capacitors one by one in the area marked in many previous pictures as the audio amplifier area - and the capacitor that fell off - a 47uf cap near the front of the unit. I would literally replace one capacitor, then screw things back together and test to see if anything happened - good or bad. Unfortunately, I only had one 22uf cap and really needed more of those. I just took the time to replace some other caps in the nearby region of the audio amplifier area. I found that almost every cap I replaced had either gunky or power residue on the circuit board underneath everything. Another thing I found out - most of the 47uf and 22uf caps were counterfeit caps - probably why they failed and also dried out so badly. At the end of the first day, I had replaced all but 4 caps in the direct audio area, and really needed at least one 22uf cap to complete that area's replacements.

Day 2: Back to Radio Shack - this one was much better stocked, and I was able to get a bunch of 22uf caps and also get a few more space saving versions of some of the other caps.

My first job - finishing the replacement of the 4 remaining caps in the audio amp area. It was not until I replaced the very last cap in that area, a 47uf cap just above the 22uf cap that a previous poster changed that gave them their CD audio back, that the CD audio returned for me. That was great!

Now I was even more determined than ever - I wanted the ADPCM sound too! I replaced all of the 22uf and 47uf caps on the board, replaced the caps next to and nearby the Oki chips on the board, and replaced a few of the larger caps by the headphone output area (I left the smaller 4.7uf caps in place - they seemed to be working). In the end, I replaced over 20 caps on the board. But no ADPCM sound...

Day 3: I thought this was good enough for the moment. I only had 6 major caps and a dozen or so tiny minor caps to replace to actually finish a complete replacement. I decided to give one final thing a try - to leave it running for several hours and then see what happens.

I left it on overnight, and the next morning gave it a try. Sure enough, Madou Monogatari did not freeze up in the dungeon anymore, and the special sound effects came out!

So in the end - one weekend's worth of cap replacements and testing is a complete success! I have a totally working PCE Duo!

Many thanks to all who came before me and shared their experiences too!

My own guess: I think it was the two 47uf caps near the front of the board that I replaced that did the trick for the ADPCM sound. Replacing one probably made a nearby crystal start to work properly, and the other probably finally provided the right ground needed for the components in that area - and I think the ADPCM requests filter through one or more of the chips in that area.

Nazi NecroPhile · 12/03/2007, 02:02 PM

@ kokuryu - Congrats on saving a Duo from the dust bin.

nat · 02/23/2008, 06:01 PM

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 06/25/2006, 01:09 AMI seem to be the one guy on Earth with an Oct 1992 Duo and not a problem.

That Duo had the sound die today in the middle of a game of Spriggan 2. Sad, sad day. In the middle of a redbook sequence it just went "POP!" and then silence. The PSG sound still played.

I'm gonna do the cap replacement and see what happens.

EDIT: What the fuck do I use to open this system? How many different kinds of screws can they come up with for these things? Seriously.

Ceti Alpha · 02/23/2008, 07:57 PM

QuoteEDIT: What the fuck do I use to open this system? How many different kinds of screws can they come up with for these things? Seriously.

I guess this is what you need. Though I'd be really surprised if you couldn't find these tool bits in a hardware store.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Turbografx-16-TG-16-Turboduo-Video-Game-TOOL-BIT-Fix_W0QQitemZ310024725641QQihZ021QQcategoryZ49230QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

nat · 02/23/2008, 08:12 PM

That's not it.

That's the one that opens the TurboGrafx-16.

That's why I'm so surprised-- you would think it'd be the same. It's some kind of screw head I've never, ever seen before. It's like a Torx socket that has a pin directly in the center.

spenoza · 02/23/2008, 11:13 PM

That's a security torx. They're a bitch to find.

Nazi NecroPhile · 02/24/2008, 12:43 AM

Quote from: nat on 02/23/2008, 08:12 PMThat's why I'm so surprised-- you would think it'd be the same. It's some kind of screw head I've never, ever seen before. It's like a Torx socket that has a pin directly in the center.

Buy this set and you'll be able to open all sorts of shit. If you want to wait a while, sign up for mailings and wait for one of their free shipping offers.

P.S. - You must have a PCE Duo, since my US Duo uses the goofy gamebit screws.

Ceti Alpha · 02/24/2008, 01:05 AM

QuoteThat's not it.

That's the one that opens the TurboGrafx-16.

That's why I'm so surprised-- you would think it'd be the same. It's some kind of screw head I've never, ever seen before. It's like a Torx socket that has a pin directly in the center.

Dang. Yeah, I had my doubts those were the right bits for the simple reason you were even asking. Why did they have to make the US Duo with all kinds of odd connections and screws?

nat · 02/24/2008, 02:40 AM

Quote from: guest on 02/24/2008, 12:43 AM
Quote from: nat on 02/23/2008, 08:12 PMThat's why I'm so surprised-- you would think it'd be the same. It's some kind of screw head I've never, ever seen before. It's like a Torx socket that has a pin directly in the center.
Buy this set and you'll be able to open all sorts of shit. If you want to wait a while, sign up for mailings and wait for one of their free shipping offers.

Holy shit, thanks for that. There is a HarborFrieght right down the street from my house. I go there all the time! I bet they have that set in-store.

QuoteP.S. - You must have a PCE Duo, since my US Duo uses the goofy gamebit screws.

Nope, October 1992 full-blooded American Duo.

guyjin · 02/24/2008, 02:59 AM

Quote from: guest on 02/24/2008, 12:43 AMBuy this set and you'll be able to open all sorts of shit. If you want to wait a while, sign up for mailings and wait for one of their free shipping offers.

bookmarked.

Turbo D · 02/24/2008, 03:28 AM

wow, thats a great deal. I'll have to grab one next time I'm down at HF.

Nazi NecroPhile · 02/24/2008, 04:05 PM

Quote from: nat on 02/24/2008, 02:40 AMNope, October 1992 full-blooded American Duo.

That's strange. My Duo's the same vintage, yet it has gamebit screws in it.

SignOfZeta · 02/24/2008, 04:34 PM

Quote from: nat on 02/23/2008, 08:12 PMThat's not it.

That's the one that opens the TurboGrafx-16.

That's why I'm so surprised-- you would think it'd be the same. It's some kind of screw head I've never, ever seen before. It's like a Torx socket that has a pin directly in the center.

Oh, hey, is that the US Duo I sold you? I swapped the secure screws out of it with the ones in my Duo R.

I did this because I only have one set of secure Torx bits and I leave them at work (where as I always have my game bit at home) and I need to open the Duo R once in a while.

Nazi NecroPhile · 02/24/2008, 07:30 PM

Mystery solved! I should've guessed something like that, since the simplest answer is usually correct.

nat · 02/24/2008, 08:42 PM

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 02/24/2008, 04:34 PM
Quote from: nat on 02/23/2008, 08:12 PMThat's not it.

That's the one that opens the TurboGrafx-16.

That's why I'm so surprised-- you would think it'd be the same. It's some kind of screw head I've never, ever seen before. It's like a Torx socket that has a pin directly in the center.
Oh, hey, is that the US Duo I sold you? I swapped the secure screws out of it with the ones in my Duo R.

I did this because I only have one set of secure Torx bits and I leave them at work (where as I always have my game bit at home) and I need to open the Duo R once in a while.

Yeah that's the one. Well, that explains it then.

nat · 02/26/2008, 12:03 AM

The Duo lives! Another one saved from the scrapheap.

I did the cap replacement and the audio seems to sustain itself at a constant level. No scratchiness. I didn't play for long, only 5 minutes or so due to time constraints but I'll give it a good run after work tomorrow. Hopefully it won't pull the fade-in fade-out game with me after extended play. That'll be the real test.

Thanks again Necromancer for pointing out that bit set, I stopped by my local Harbor Freight after work and they had exactly one of those sets left. Unfortunately, that $4.99 sale was an exclusive web-only offer. So the guy met me halfway and sold it to me for $7.99 ($12.99 normal retail).

While I was in there I also adjusted the laser which has been giving me the singing treatment lately (no gameplay problems yet, but I hear the singing isn't a good sign). I adjusted 90 degrees counterclockwise and she purrs like a kitten again.

Nazi NecroPhile · 02/26/2008, 12:34 AM

Good to hear that you got her back to five by five. I really need to crack mine open and resolder the a/v port, as I'm getting mighty tired of wiggling the damn cable. Why, oh why did those cheap bastards do such a crappy job on that thing?

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REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo: Sound Fix