Retro VGS Game Console

[SignOfZeta]

If anything they should have developed ANY FORM OF CIRCUTRY WHATSOEVER before wowing us all with a 20 year old case they can't use.

I guess to people who aren't involved in product development this announcement seems merely vague, but you don't design a game system with a pen. A "game system" is the CPU, the OS, maybe a unique input system, stuff like that. You don't try to blow people's minds with a drawing. That's totally ass backwards.

Also ass backwards, insisting that the system will be made in the U.S. and will cost less than $200 before you have any idea what's going inside of it. Game systems have been a China-only thing for so long now that you're going to have to blaze a few trails just too make one here again. I fully support this initiative but I don't think he knows...well, that it's no longer possible because we don't even make chips here anymore.

The issue isn't wether or not you support this game system. The issue is that it isn't a game system yet, and while it someday may be, virtually %0 of the work needed to make it one has been done yet. It's less real than the Phantom was because at least the Phantom had specs and sorta ran.

[NecroPhile]

I'd guess their idea of "made in the usa" would be more like "final assembly", where a chinese made pcb (fully populated) would be inserted into their jagwire cases and packaged here.

added in edit: there's more chip manufacturing here than you think, including Intel, Global Foundaries, IBM, Texas Instruments, Freescale, and even Samsung.

[jlued686]

It's less real than the Phantom was because at least the Phantom had specs and sorta ran.

Ha! I played the Phantom once at E3...for about thirty seconds before it blue-screened and I was shuffled away from the kiosk by one of their reps. Ah...good times.

[elmer]

As would I.  Personally, the only thing I know that bugs me, is the idea of it using Jag carts, I HATE those things!  I have all mine stacked....very carefully, with little guarantee that they'll stay that way.  A fly buzzing by would knock them off the shelf.

<engage full sarcasm>

Errr ... why would the Retro VGS cartridges fall over?

Won't they stack perfectly ... all nice and pristine, still sealed in their boxes ... right next to the sealed 1st-edition console.

Isn't that who this concept is aimed at?

<back to regular skepticism>

I'll be curious to see if these guys can actually pull-the-rabbit-out-of-the-hat and get the thing semi-designed before the KickStarter begging begins.

If they commercialized something like the MiST FPGA board, and so allowed developers to basically re-write the hardware on boot to customize their games (possibly from a library of different retro designs) ... then it could be an awesome system.

Unfortunately, that probably wouldn't be possible within the announced price range (given the cost of the 2 controllers that Mr Katz wants to buy from his buddies, and also the cost of the pack-in game(s) that he wants to buy from his other buddies).

More plausible is that they'd just use a nice-and-cheap Chinese Allwinner or Rockchip ARM SoC that's designed for Android.

If they want to ship the console without an OS, then you would just "boot" it up from cartridge straight into a game (well more like straight into a customized version of linux).

Would that appeal to people here? Basically an Ouya without the Android part and no online store?

I'd guess their idea of "made in the usa" would be more like "final assembly", where a chinese made pcb (fully populated) would be inserted into their jagwire cases and packaged here.

Haha ... you beat me to saying that! 

He'll just get the cases made by the same guy that ran off his recent test-run of the old molds.

After all, it's already clear that it's what is on the outside that matters most!

[elmer]

Doh ... I think that I just finally understood Micheal Katz's perspective and reasoning for the Retro VGS. 

The actual hardware that's inside the thing is totally irrelevant to his business plan.

He's selling the experience of owning big cartridges in big boxes ... with pretty manuals ... just like yesteryear.

It'll be a Chinese Android/media-playback SoC ... the reason that he's agonizing over whether to have NTSC or HDMI output is just a case of choosing which of the alternative chips he'll use.

Any of the recent ones will be able to do a decent 2D game ... which is what he wants ... so no need to pay for an expensive Nvidia Tegra (which would also have licensing restrictions on the graphics drivers).

The console will run a simple uBoot loader from internal flash/rom, which then loads the actual game/linux/whatever from a nice-and-cheap parallel flash chip in the cartridge. It'll be encrypted to discourage piracy.

Instant booting (to a logo screen), and no OS on the console.

If the cartridge contains a simple linux system, then it will run Unity on this kind of hardware, which will make modern indie "retro" developers happy.

Since the main board would be made in China, the choice of the jagwire case and cartridge could be as simple as a way to discourage cheap knock-off production.

If the whole thing is made in China ... then the factory just runs off an extra few thousand boards/cases and sells them online ... which takes away from his profit.

If he's the only one that has the mold for the cases/cartridges ... then it doesn't 100% guarantee to stop that, but it certainly does make it a lot more expensive for someone to do, and so unlikely to happen unless the Retro VGS is a huge success (in which case he's already got a lot of money and can afford to sue).

[Psycho Punch]

tl;dr of the above posts: This is a console aimed at NA VGA95+ collectards mostly, the "running the games" part is the least important thing in the project.

Raw Ron Jeremy Footage

I wonder what will be the percentage of buyers that will actually remove the console from its shrinkwrap and cardboard box to play the highly anticipated launch titles such as:

[NightWolve]

haters gonna hate, but I will probably get this.

Yeaaah, riiight... Haters gonna hate, riders gonna riiiide... Except that the "haters" here actually articulated rational, logical, honest, etc. arguments/points as to why this is such a boneheaded/absurd idea... "Cheerleaders gonna cheerlead" is more like it...

Sorry, but one side is clearly far more blind here than the other... Enjoy your "console" should the idea for it ever materialize into a solid product that honors a previous failed console. ;) This begs to be lambasted and some of us don't like seeing gullible people hand over their money to lost causes.

[MotherGunner]

LOL at the hood talk...

haters gonna hate, but I will probably get this.

Yeaaah, riiight... Haters gonna hate, riders gonna riiiide... Except that the "haters" here actually articulated rational, logical, honest, etc. arguments/points as to why this is such a boneheaded/absurd idea... "Cheerleaders gonna cheerlead" is more like it...

Sorry, but one side is clearly far more blind here than the other... Enjoy your "console" should the idea for it ever materialize into a solid product that honors a previous failed console. ;) This begs to be lambasted and some of us don't like seeing gullible people hand over their money to lost causes.

[Arkhan Asylum]

again, I am still curious.

Why waste time on this when we're already making games for the retro systems we like?

I won't stop NEC/MSXing for some Jaguar jive bullshit.  There aren't even that many retro developers that are coherent/competent.

They might as well call it the Bright Eyed Naive Developer Box.

BEND Box.

IM GONNA MAKE LEGEN OD ZELDA / FINAL FANTSY CROSSOVER GAME WITH HINTS OF CHRONO TRRGR AND F ZERO.

[TurboGrafx]

haters gonna hate, but I will probably get this.

Yeaaah, riiight... Haters gonna hate, riders gonna riiiide... Except that the "haters" here actually articulated rational, logical, honest, etc. arguments/points as to why this is such a boneheaded/absurd idea... "Cheerleaders gonna cheerlead" is more like it...

Sorry, but one side is clearly far more blind here than the other... Enjoy your "console" should the idea for it ever materialize into a solid product that honors a previous failed console. ;) This begs to be lambasted and some of us don't like seeing gullible people hand over their money to lost causes.

I never said that I didn't agree with points being made by everyone on here. I am just willing to give the console a chance. Sorry if others don't agree with me.

[esteban]

again, I am still curious.

Why waste time on this when we're already making games for the retro systems we like?

I won't stop NEC/MSXing for some Jaguar jive bullshit.  There aren't even that many retro developers that are coherent/competent.

They might as well call it the Bright Eyed Naive Developer Box.

BEND Box.

IM GONNA MAKE LEGEN OD ZELDA / FINAL FANTSY CROSSOVER GAME WITH HINTS OF CHRONO TRRGR AND F ZERO.

For the PCE, I am hereby begging you to make a Neutopia/F-Zero crossover. That would be fantastic.

[ClodBusted]

Including HDMI is a no-brainer. I've already seen friends having no idea where to connect composite video cables to their Samsung TVs, because the recent ones only come with proprietary adaptors for anything that's not HDMI - but no standard RCA, S-Video, component or even Euro-Scart and VGA sockets anymore.

[VenomMacbeth]

[NightWolve]

haters gonna hate, but I will probably get this.

I never said that I didn't agree with points being made by everyone on here. I am just willing to give the console a chance. Sorry if others don't agree with me.

You dismissed "others" as "haters" which implies blind hate or hate just for the hell of it as if the criticism levied against this dumb idea wasn't well thought out and defended... Maybe don't throw dumb, dismissive shit around in the form of overused slogans like "haters gonna hate" against critics (AKA those that don't agree with you).

[SignOfZeta]

The term "hater" was designed by and used exclusively by total pieces of shit for so long that it would never occur to me to reason with someone using it "incorrectly". People who are so horrible that they have the ultimate final horrible human attribute: the inability to take responsibility or to even acknowledge their own horribleness to such an extreme extent that they actually see all of their critics as the cause of all the commotion.

Suge Knight has "haters", surely the reason he's on trial for murder AGAIN can't be his own murderous self. That dead guy's family are just haters.

Using the term "hater" in a non-ironic fashion is the fastest way to tell people you are a total cunt, that you have no interest in fairness, logic, history, etc, and I fully appreciate people like this using it so that there is no confusion.

[TurboGrafx]

haters gonna hate, but I will probably get this.

I never said that I didn't agree with points being made by everyone on here. I am just willing to give the console a chance. Sorry if others don't agree with me.

You dismissed "others" as "haters" which implies blind hate or hate just for the hell of it as if the criticism levied against this dumb idea wasn't well thought out and defended... Maybe don't throw dumb, dismissive shit around in the form of overused slogans like "haters gonna hate" against critics (AKA those that don't agree with you).

It was a joke. It's in the Taylor Swift song Shake it off lol. Geez

[TurboGrafx]

The term "hater" was designed by and used exclusively by total pieces of shit for so long that it would never occur to me to reason with someone using it "incorrectly". People who are so horrible that they have the ultimate final horrible human attribute: the inability to take responsibility or to even acknowledge their own horribleness to such an extreme extent that they actually see all of their critics as the cause of all the commotion.

Suge Knight has "haters", surely the reason he's on trial for murder AGAIN can't be his own murderous self. That dead guy's family are just haters.

Using the term "hater" in a non-ironic fashion is the fastest way to tell people you are a total cunt, that you have no interest in fairness, logic, history, etc, and I fully appreciate people like this using it so that there is no confusion.

Wow, talk about taking things a little too seriously around here. I am happy you can have an accurate portrayal of me for saying three words in a joking manner. judgmental much?

[NightWolve]

Oh OK, always an easy escape with, "Hey, was just a joke... Why so serious ?"

[TurboGrafx]

Oh OK, always an easy escape with, "Hey, was just a joke... Why so serious ?"

Yep, man you just know me too well.

[NightWolve]

Do I have to know you well to find slogans like "haters gonna hate" dumb, dismissive, annoying, etc. ? I criticize/mock its use and other forms like "riders gonna ride..." I wouldn't go as far as Zeta did, so take that up with him.

[TurboGrafx]

Do I have to know you well to find slogans like "haters gonna hate" dumb, dismissive, annoying, etc. ? I criticize/mock its use and other forms like "riders gonna ride..." I wouldn't go as far as Zeta did, so take that up with him.

Honestly, is it a cliche slogan? Sure, I will admit that. Was it said to offend anyone or was it used in a serious matter? Absolutely not. I definitely think it is a ridiculous saying, but I was hoping to get a few laughs out of it. If I knew it would have gotten this much backlash I would not have used it.

[SignOfZeta]

OH MY GOD IT WAS SO HILARIOUS!!!

THANKS FOR ALL THE LAUGHS!!!

Nobody cares if it's cliche. It being cliche isn't even on the radar. The term "hater" literally means that no matter how much thought I put into my opinion of something, no matter how much evidence there is, it doesn't matter because I'm just someone who categorically hates players. Who are the players? Well, anyone I hate, right? How convinient. It's the last refuge of the indefensible. The Retro VGS is a very poorly conceived idea, if you can even call it an idea or something that involved a significant degree of conception. Several of us here have all explained why in very thoughtful and well reasoned ways. But all that doesn't matter because "haters gonna hate". It's basically a rallying cry for ignorance. It's a horrible term. Categorically. All the time. Taylor Swift can't change that.

I know I went apeshit on you, but it's a stupid word and you're just digging a deeper hole every time you defend it so I'll just shut up about this for now. It's not like you're Roy Vegas or something.

[esteban]

 

[NecroPhile]

OH MY GOD IT WAS SO HILARIOUS!!!

THANKS FOR ALL THE LAUGHS!!!

I got a chuckle out of the reported post, so there's that.

[elmer]

The more that I think about the Retro VGS ... the less that I'm against it.

I've come to realize that it just isn't aimed at me, or at 90% of the people here.

I no longer believe that there's any real intention to try create a new commercially-competitive retro-hardware 2d-console to go up against Sony/Microsoft/Steam/Goole/Apple.

It's the lunacy of that idea that most of the posts here have been ragging on.

I now believe that it's intended to be a limited-lifespan toy ... just like the Jakks Atari-Classics/Namco-Classics controllers or the NeoGeoX.

Listening to the podcast again ... it's about opening up the box, plugging in a big cartridge, turning the console on, and being able to play immediately. Then flipping the switch and putting in the other pack-in cartridge and trying that.

It's about a "retro" feeling ... not about real "retro" hardware or games.

Michael Katz even mentioned pack-in games ... I suspect that there will be 2 cartridges in the box because the act of switching between the 2 is part of the "retro" experience.

It's the kind of thing that grandparents will buy for their kids because they remember that that's what games used to be like.

I don't believe that it's really meant for the serious PCE/SNES/Genesis/PSX/Saturn game fan ... except as a pure "collectable".

With the Jaguar background, Katz will probably try to pay Jeff Minter to do a new "Tempest 4000" game for it ... which would probably get every Jaguar fan to buy the Retro VGS.

Half-a-dozen modern Steam "retro" developers will probably get subsidized to put their games on cartridges (which they'll love for the novelty) ... and then the whole thing will fade away ... just like happens with any fad.

Quick check ... who still has a Razor Scooter or a set of Poker Chips stuck in a closet somewhere?

[ToyMachine78]

This seems like a very stupid idea. If I'm a developer, why not just produce games for the actual retro platforms that already exist, and well established in the retro community. As a consumer, if I want to play retro styled games there are a ton of great classic titles that I can buy for $40 or less on existing consoles, that I already own. Why buy new hardware to pay $40 to play possibly pretty mediocre games at best(based on the majority of Indy titles out today) ? This just does not compute.

[esteban]

The more that I think about the Retro VGS ... the less that I'm against it.

I've come to realize that it just isn't aimed at me, or at 90% of the people here.

I no longer believe that there's any real intention to try create a new commercially-competitive retro-hardware 2d-console to go up against Sony/Microsoft/Steam/Goole/Apple.

It's the lunacy of that idea that most of the posts here have been ragging on.

I now believe that it's intended to be a limited-lifespan toy ... just like the Jakks Atari-Classics/Namco-Classics controllers or the NeoGeoX.

Listening to the podcast again ... it's about opening up the box, plugging in a big cartridge, turning the console on, and being able to play immediately. Then flipping the switch and putting in the other pack-in cartridge and trying that.

It's about a "retro" feeling ... not about real "retro" hardware or games.

Michael Katz even mentioned pack-in games ... I suspect that there will be 2 cartridges in the box because the act of switching between the 2 is part of the "retro" experience.

It's the kind of thing that grandparents will buy for their kids because they remember that that's what games used to be like.

I don't believe that it's really meant for the serious PCE/SNES/Genesis/PSX/Saturn game fan ... except as a pure "collectable".

With the Jaguar background, Katz will probably try to pay Jeff Minter to do a new "Tempest 4000" game for it ... which would probably get every Jaguar fan to buy the Retro VGS.

Half-a-dozen modern Steam "retro" developers will probably get subsidized to put their games on cartridges (which they'll love for the novelty) ... and then the whole thing will fade away ... just like happens with any fad.

Quick check ... who still has a Razor Scooter or a set of Poker Chips stuck in a closet somewhere?

Razor Scooter, ha!

[MotherGunner]

This is the first time I've checked this thread since Iacovelli deleted his account.

It's Wmacovelli, and I think he's a prince who faked his own account deletion.


See ya bud!

[Arkhan Asylum]

So basically, it's a quick cashcow for a nimrod.


and it's in a Jagtard case. 

Sweet.

[SignOfZeta]

Being for or against it isn't the issue. It doesn't exist. The guy has NOTHING. There is no Retro VGS.

I'll form an opinion on it when some details, ANY details, are revealed.

The reason everyone is fixating on the Jag-wire case is because that's the only thing that is real...a 20 year old manufacturing artifact from a doomed console is more real than the mythical "retro" machine.

[elmer]

So basically, it's a quick cashcow for a nimrod.

Or, if you were feeling very, very generous, you might say "introducing cartridge gaming to a whole new generation".

It's not for us ... nor, I think, for anyone who's brother/father/grandfather loves/collects one or more of the old consoles.

It's for the millions of people who have fond memories of playing video games as a kid, and who have heard of this whole "retro-revival" thingy ... but who aren't geeky enough about it to still have a console collection, or to scour eBay and Yahoo Japan for deals, or to spend their time on minority-interest forums like this one and hang out with folks like us.

You know ... the 90% of boring "normal" folks out there. 

and it's in a Jagtard case.

Which is a terrible sign to most people "in-the-know" ... but could actually be a good idea if I'm right. It would allow him to put "in an original ATARI-designed case" prominently on the box.

You'd look at that and snigger ... his potential customers would look at that and say "I remember ATARI ... cool". Brand recognition.

Being for or against it isn't the issue. It doesn't exist. The guy has NOTHING. There is no Retro VGS.

I'll form an opinion on it when some details, ANY details, are revealed.

I totally agree ... especially now that I've got my head around at least one vaguely plausible business case that doesn't just make him out to be a total nut-case.

[EDIT]

It's the total lack of any solid information that lets me go off on the complete flight-of-fantasy of my last last few messages. I could obviously be totally wrong. 

[MotherGunner]

What's a snigger?

[glazball]

I'll throw my 2 cents as well - I'm quite pleased at the idea of the Retro VGS.  Of course, we all will just have to wait until we have more details, but in the meantime I prefer to be optimistic.  I don't see why it can't coexist with other consoles, old and new.

My only concern is the physical carts themselves.  I'm no stranger to wanting a physical copy of a game (I've only bought 3 digital games ever), but the reasons for publishers shying away from carts are still as valid as they were 20 years ago.

Are we going to see a bunch of developers begging for money to "Kickstart Our Cart"?  I have mixed feelings about Kickstarter because it seems even big artists (music, games, etc) who have money are using crowdfunding for projects.  I would love to go back to the days of "We took the risk, made this game and we hope you will buy it for $XX because you want to own and play it."

[NecroPhile]

What's a snigger?

A muffled laugh.

Or a candy bar. 

[elmer]

What's a snigger?

Whoops ... cultural language difference ... basically "a dismissive laugh".

Double-whoops ... I didn't even think about it ... perhaps it sounds a little bit too close to the "word-that-must-never-be-used-in-public" for some people. 

[cr8zykuban0]

This is the first time I've checked this thread since Iacovelli deleted his account.  I didn't read back beyond page 8 where the "new post" button led me... and I give no shits about the dramas either way, but I have to point out one damning piece of evidence:

It was a joke. It's in the Taylor Swift song Shake it off lol. Geez

Taylor Swift?

wait, do i look like taylor swift? how did you get a pic of me eating a fry? lol that's awesome but man my acne looks terrible in that pic. glad its nowhere what it used to be

[Sarumaru]

This is the first time I've checked this thread since Iacovelli deleted his account.  I didn't read back beyond page 8 where the "new post" button led me... and I give no shits about the dramas either way, but I have to point out one damning piece of evidence:

It was a joke. It's in the Taylor Swift song Shake it off lol. Geez

Taylor Swift?

wait, do i look like taylor swift? how did you get a pic of me eating a fry? lol that's awesome but man my acne looks terrible in that pic. glad its nowhere what it used to be

lookat dem LIPSSSS

[esteban]

I don't want acne fries. No.

[PukeSter]

Necro post for anyone who is interested, or wants to laugh. I'm somewhat interested, but I'll wait till it's out.

Currently the launch game list is...

Tiny Knight (Wonder Boy type game with Amiga graphics)
Sydney Hunter and the Caverns of Death (also coming to NES, SNES, Wii U)
Read Only Memories (digital comic I guess)
Songbringer (randomly generated Zelda type game)
Super Noah's Ark 3D (for the SNES collectards)
Pier Solar (of course)

Only Tiny Knight is a new game.

Controller is a ripoff of the Wii U Pro Controller, and yes the carts look like Jaguar carts.

Shovel Knight and Retro City Rampage may come out as well.

Possibility of some Data East games coming out as well.

http://www.retrovgs.com/

[o.pwuaioc]

How is this still real?

[KnightWarrior]

Why didn't they go for a Super NES Mini Type Console?

[cr8zykuban0]

I don't want acne fries. No.

my god my acne looks horrible in this pic. happy to say, it has gotten better. i dont have it nearly as bad as i used to.
acne is a beeettcchhhhh!!!

[Arkhan Asylum]

Love that Pier Solar is going to be whored onto it.

A surefire sign that the thing is gonna tank.

[PukeSter]

Love that Pier Solar is going to be whored onto it.

A surefire sign that the thing is gonna tank.

I knew you would say that. 😂

I forgot to mention, ng.dev.team is bringing some of their games to the console. Idk which ones.

[PCEngineHell]

Love that Pier Solar is going to be whored onto it.

A surefire sign that the thing is gonna tank.

I knew you would say that. 😂

I forgot to mention, ng.dev.team is bringing some of their games to the console. Idk which ones.

I wonder if they are going to bring the NEOGEO AES price along with them....

[o.pwuaioc]

So, here's a question. Those optimistic for this POS *ahem* machine, have you bought and played all the great 2D games that already exist over several different platforms? Have you tried buying a cheap-o computer to play indie PC games on the TV with a 360 controller (or better)? I just don't see the need for this thing anywhere. It's gotta be loved only by those who love "ooh shiny!".

[NightWolve]

I just don't see the need for this thing anywhere.

That seemed to be our consensus. I doubt it will change. ;)

[PukeSter]

New announcement on Facebook. What do you Obeyers think?

"WE NEED YOUR HELP! We will be starting to shoot our Kickstarter sizzle video this weekend and would like to ask this community to submit some questions they have for us so that we might answer these questions on the video and giving you credit for the question. First name and last name initial would be used. So if you provide a question, be sure to provide that as well. Also, please look through the list of questions to make sure your question hasn't already been asked. In either case, we will choose the person who posted the question first. Fire away and thanks for helping us out with this part of the campaign."

[NecroPhile]

One question: Why are you trying to create an entirely new architecture instead of developing for steam, xbone, ps4, etc.?

Bonus question: Are you retarded?

[BigusSchmuck]

Hate to be a boner killer here, but there is a reason why we don't see any new cartridge based system nowadays (unless you count the DS line). Wouldn't it be more economical to release them on a sd card or a variant of? Or CD based? I'm pretty sure if it gets the AES treatment ($200 per game yikes) it'll likely fail.. BTW, I'm still confused why they chose to use a shell of a failed system. I mean do they really want to equate their system to the toilet that was the Jaguar?