Messages

[PCE/TG-16|CD/SGX Discussion / Re: Worst US Turbografx CD Game]

Madden isn't terrible, it plays at least as well as other football games of its day and has some awesome FMV.  Dislike of football is likely the driver of this vote, but I argue it's unjust.

Yea, Madden on the Duo was basically the same as Madden on the Genesis or SNES.  I owned it back in the day.  It was more or less just an unlicensed Madden '93.  Were the other systems even doing licensed Madden games at that time yet?  Or did that come in later?  Either way, not a bad game, just a... Madden game.

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Re: Lightning Strikes... the PC-Engine?! (Thunder Force IV Chiptune Cover)]

 

 

    

How on earth are you getting that sound???

Please tell me that it's still deflemask, so that I can *hope* to reproduce it on real hardware!!!

That lead is great ... I'm *guessing* (in my musical ignorance), that it's 2-or-more channels with an octave offset + a detune.

However you've managed it ... the FM-style lead is great! And the bass is amazing.

Even though I'd prefer not to use it too much ... the 16KHz sampling is perfectly-fine to use in-game, and I'd love to hear what the track sounds like with 16KHz samples.

I'm probably greedy, but I also hope that you try out Michirin9801's PSG+noise style drums sometime, especially once we've got the wave-macro switching between wavetables/noise on any 1/60s.

But whatever ...   

Thanks!  It's dark magic.  ;)  Seriously, it took some work to get them sounding all FM synth-ey.  The original track used like 5 guitars ; 1 bass, 2 leads, and 2 backup guitars.  they all play off each other and strike chords and whatnot.  That part, I didn't do... that's just how the music is composed.  But for getting that FM-ey sound, I used some simple math and lots of the [04xy] bit, and some crazy looking waveforms.  I'd still like to go back and try to get the guitars to sound dirtier/grittier.  Maybe I'll come back to it later.

And, yes, it's all Deflemask.  There shouldn't be any problem running this on real hardware.  It's intro/title screen music, so I'm not even going to bother making a 5 channel version.  There are only three percussion samples at 32KHz, but they sound just great at 8KHz or even 7KHz 

I can post links to the DMF/HES files, if you want.  Or you can just grab them off the Deflemask forums.  I posted the most recent iterations on there.

Dang, I was really hoping it was going to be Metal Squad!

I was going to do Metal Squad or perhaps Stand Up Against Myself, but I wanted to "warm up" first before I dive into something like that... Takeshi Yoshida is a god damn maniac haha.  Even this little intro diddy is amazingly complex.

P.S. The boss music, Simmer Down is highly underrated.  ;)

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Lightning Strikes... the PC-Engine?! (Thunder Force IV Chiptune Cover)]

Thunder Force IV Lightning Strikes Again Thunder Force V - Duel Of Top done on the PC-Engine.  Fuck you. 

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Re: Megaman PCE thread]

Sounds good, man!    I agree with the others about those few notes in the Cutman music.  If you want, I could share with you (and everybody else) how I break down and dissect the original tunes when I make the chiptune covers.  That way, you can get the timing perrrrrrrrrrrrfect.  It's a PITA and not for the faint of heart, i'll warn you.  haha

[PCE/TG-16|CD/SGX Discussion / Re: Worst US Turbografx CD Game]

I'm with Arkhan.  I don't think Magical Dinosaur Tour should be on this list.  Or any of these lists.  It's not even a game.  It's an interactive educational kids book, basically.  It's like, "Look, you little shit.  Today, you're gonna sit down and learn about dinosaurs."  Outdated as some of the scientific facts may be today... It's not even apples to oranges, it's like apples to broccoli.  It's like comparing Zero Wing on the Sega Genesis to Reading Rainbow with Lavar Burton hahah

And Riot Zone is NOT the worst game on the US TGCD.  It IS, however, the biggest let down.  Everybody just has this overall feeling about it that something that should have been great... turned out just mediocre at best.  I'm in that same crowd.  It's not just the lack of 2 player co-op either.  Only 3 enemies ever appear on-screen at a time.  There are ZERO weapons to pick up and use.  The walk animations are lols.  The music is from a waiting room somewhere.  Some of the color/saturation choices are lols.  There's a whole list.  It's a shame too, since some of the graphics and graphical effects are top notch... it's just... blah.  I think most of the problem is the fact the Sega arcade game it's loosely based on is also a mediocre snore fest.  Hard to make a great game when it's based on a kind of shitty one to begin with.

I voted Fighting Street and Jack Nicklaus Turbo Golf CD

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Re: Super Raiden 25th Anniversary Project...]

Here we go, guys... what would you guys think if this were included as a 3rd selectable soundtrack on the Anniversary disc?  Ryphecha (Mednafen's author) sent me some HQ rips of the HuC6280 Raiden soundtrack *MINUS* the shitty drums.  I then carefully synched up the drums from the original arcade game's OKI chip to the PSG tunes... and this came out.  The drum samples are downsampled to 7khz-ish LQ, as would be heard on a HuCard too.  Though they don't really sound much different than the original OKI samples.  This is probably what the PSG soundtrack was meant to sound like, if you ask me.

soundcloud .com/user-716572978/sets/raiden-turbografx-16-pc-engine-ost-remastered
Raiden TurboGrafx-16/PC-Engine OST (Remastered) on SoundCloud

If I go this route with the 3rd soundtrack, like I've said before, I'll need to use the chiptune covers I'm making for the three Raiden2 tunes used in the other two soundtracks... but that's not a problem at all.  I think I have one more Raiden II chiptune cover in me. 

I'm almost thinking about putting it up for a poll here.  PS1 Raiden Project OST vs. HuCard Remaster + Chiptune Covers vs. Original Super Raiden CD OST.   Thoughts?

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Re: Space Harrier floor effect]

I don't remember the floor in PCE Space Harrier being choppy. Didn't the lines move and stretch based on 60fps?

Its not choppy.  It's actually quite smooth.

I also suspect that if the original wasn't a checkerboard, and was also alternating bars, nobody would give a shit.

Maybe I'm just thinking of the game, in general... could have used more sprite scaling frames, i suspect.  But, yea, it *needed* that checkerboard floor.  Just one more excuse for the Genesis kids to say "It can't even do a checkered floor on Space Harrier!" as they pull out their copy of Space Harrier II haha

TBH, though, I've always chalked that particular part of it up to just being rushed/botched.  Not any kind of hardware limitation

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Re: Space Harrier floor effect]

It always bothered me how choppy and non-checkered the floor looked in the TG16 version of SH.  That shit should have been smooth as butter, like the Genesis SH2... except, you know, SH1 instead

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Raiden II - Flap Toward The Hope (Stage 7) (PC-Engine Chiptune Cover)]

Here's another cover i just finished up.  Turned out pretty pretty close to the arcade.    I'd like to put all the Raiden II covers I do in the Super Raiden 25th Anniversary Project to fill in the missing tracks for the HuCard soundtrack.  But 5 channel, LQ sample versions, so they better match the original HuCard OST.

^{♫ https://soundcloud.com/user-716572978/raiden-ii-flap-toward-the-hope-turbografx-16pc-engine-chiptune-cover}

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Re: Raiden II - Metal Storm (Boss Music) (PC-Engine Cover)]

I've also considered doing Stab & Stomp! from the also legendary and highly coveted Battle Garegga arcade soundtrack.

Is that some fucking SICK musical use of LFO effects i hear at 0:29 and 1:29?!?!

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Re: Raiden II - Metal Storm (Boss Music) (PC-Engine Cover)]

Thanks, guys!  Glad you like it!  More stuff on the way. 

Seriously, this is some nice work.  Are you up for taking requests?

The next two tracks I'm doing will also be Raiden II music (for the 25th Anniversary Project).... but after that...

I'm honestly thinking about taking a crack at another Sega Genesis track.  One people will be like "No... it can't be.  That's not possible!"

When you think of absolutely furious, all out, balls-to-the-fucking-wall wailing FM synth metal guitar on the Genesis, with insane pitch bends and vibrato effects going on everywhere, what is the FIRST highly coveted Genesis game soundtrack that comes to mind???

There's a storm a' brewin'  ;)

It's Thunder Force isn't it?
I already did Fighting Back from Thunder Force IV a while back as a request from a friend, but to be honest, I don't enjoy the TF soundtracks nearly as much as everyone else seems to... It's just that I'm really not into metal, much less gritty FM metal >w>
But yeah, there are the exceptions, and Fighting Back is an exception to me, I like the song...

Nice!  Awesome cover, I just listened to it.  I'm considering doing the legendary Metal Squad 

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Re: Raiden II - Metal Storm (Boss Music) (PC-Engine Cover)]

Thanks, guys!  Glad you like it!  More stuff on the way. 

Seriously, this is some nice work.  Are you up for taking requests?

The next two tracks I'm doing will also be Raiden II music (for the 25th Anniversary Project).... but after that...

I'm honestly thinking about taking a crack at another Sega Genesis track.  One people will be like "No... it can't be.  That's not possible!"

When you think of absolutely furious, all out, balls-to-the-fucking-wall wailing FM synth metal guitar on the Genesis, with insane pitch bends and vibrato effects going on everywhere, what is the FIRST highly coveted Genesis game soundtrack that comes to mind???

Hint: There's a storm a' brewin'  ;)

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Re: Raiden II - Metal Storm (Boss Music) (PC-Engine Cover)]

Sounds amazing.

Would it be possible to do some Street fighter 2 tracks or even super street fighter II new challengers??

Man!  Some chick... Mari Yamaguchi, covered the ENTIRE arcade Street Fighter II Champion Edition soundtrack on the PC-Engine!  Would you believe it?!  It's pretty good too! 

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Raiden II - Metal Storm (Boss Music) (PC-Engine Cover)]

This one seemed a lot easier.  Probably both because the source material was simpler in design and I've since gotten a little more used to Deflemask.   Turned out pretty close to the arcade, really.

I kind of wish I could get the drum samples to sound cleaner.  Maybe I'll work on that later.

This is the 6 channel, 32KHz sample version, but it might as well be 5 channels since one channel literally does nothing for about 95% of the song... and the arcade track was like that too lol.

Raiden II - Metal Storm (PC-Engine Chiptune Cover) on SoundCloud

I want to do something special for the 5 channel, LQ sample version of this.  I want to rip the waveforms from the HuCard Raiden and use ONLY those waveforms for this... I'm betting this will really have that HuCard Raiden sound vibe if I do that.   

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Re: Guess the next tune getting the PC-Engine treatment ;)]

Raider II boss music! I knew it! Had to confirm on YouTube, though.

BINGO!  We have a winner! 

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Re: Guess the next tune getting the PC-Engine treatment ;)]

None of those.  It's a boss tune.  From a non-PCE game.

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Guess the next tune getting the PC-Engine treatment ;)]

Still very early.  Only 3 channels roughly filled in... but you should be able to guess the tune. 

^{♫ https://soundcloud.com/user-716572978/very-early-wip}

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Re: Question: Wave-phasing on the PC engine, how feasible is that?]

Oh I see.  Well, then you're going to get crackle no matter what, since the waveform mismatch basically likely creates a small saw wave wherever/whenever it occurs.  I can't help but wonder, though, with some math and careful planning (or just plain trial and error), if if one had the exact frequency the first waveform was being played if you could diddle around with where DC offset=0 points were placed within the 32byte waveform to sort of "dodge" or avoid the crackle... essentially, wrap the waveform left/right within the 32byte grid until you find a "sweet spot" where there is no crackle.  assuming there is at least one occurence of DC offset=0 somewhere within each of the waveforms you're trying to match up.

Or are you saying that even if the two waveforms happen to meet cleanly at DC=0, there will still be crackle?

Yeah, you get get better precision in calculating where the pointer will be, but introduce stuff like vibrato into the mix or pitch slides, and it's pretty much a no. When it's a yes, though, it'll be a race condition with all sorts of "jitter". So it won't be exact. And from my experience, even off by one sample can make the sample sound 'dirty' or clicky. That doesn't mean you can't use it, and it doesn't mean ALL waveform phase sounds bad. It just depends on the shape and the frequency of the channel. Square waves tend to be completely immune to the clicking. Low frequency stuff also tends to be immune to it (I was able to get voice like sounds from morphing 32byte samples in real time without clicking; I got a link to it somewhere.. I posted it later).

Yea!  you get what i'm saying.  It sounds like something the chiptuner could tinker around with and avoid if implemented properly in Deflemask.  If I'm understanding it correctly, it's a condition that happens roughly the same spot +/- a tick or two, right?  It would depend on the waveform shape, but like I was saying before, if that's the case then a chiptuner could strategically draw the waveforms so that there are a couple DC=0 sample spots placed in each waveform and then wrap one or the other waveform left/right until the clicking either goes away or is lessened.  I mean, you've got a 1/32 chance of hitting a sweet spot, so you're bound to find it with enough patience... a better chance if the waveform has multiple DC=0 spots, particularly in a row.  As it stands now, in Deflemask, if you want to wrap the waveform you pretty much have to redraw the whole thing... which is impractical.  But if something like that implemented in Deflemask, I bet you'd start seeing chiptuners using wave phasing and simply trial-and-error'ing their way around the popping/clicking.  It would be a simple addition to Deflemask too.  A couple of arrow buttons in the waveform editor.

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Re: Streets of Rage - Fighting In The Street (TurboGrafx-16 Chiptune Cover)]

Can you please make a version with 6 channels and 8KHz samples?

I could make a DMF version with 32KHz samples, then you could go into Deflemask and just set the sample rate to anything you want and export to HES

I probably should have made the full version's samples 32KHz to begin with heh

I gotta ask, though... why?  Just gotta have that slightly muffled Devil's Crush drum sample sound?  ;)

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Re: Question: Wave-phasing on the PC engine, how feasible is that?]

Hmm, interesting.  The actual hardware still produces noise at $1F... it sounds perhaps higher than $1E but also a tad quieter.  Didn't know that was an "illegal" setting. :\

The actual wording is "forbidden" for a zero tone divider, and "undefined" for a zero noise divider.

I know this is kind of a "Have you checked the power cord?" kind of question, guys, but are you sure the ends of the waveforms you're using for this test are lined up/aligned correctly for looping/chaining?  Looking at the shot that CCovell posted, it looks like there is some discrepancy where one wave ends and another begins, and you've essentially created a small saw wave with a short sustain.

As Chris said ... there's nothing that we can do about that.

When we come to change the waveform, the PCE hardware offers us no way to tell exactly which sample is playing in the current waveform, and so we can't line-up the transition.

You're going to get a discontinuity ... there's no (sane) way around that.

If you want long sample-accurate loops, you'll need to play a sampled-sound.

BTW ... I have absolutely no idea why Deflemask doesn't support looped samples, they're trivial to implement. 

Oh I see.  Well, then you're going to get crackle no matter what, since the waveform mismatch basically likely creates a small saw wave wherever/whenever it occurs.  I can't help but wonder, though, with some math and careful planning (or just plain trial and error), if if one had the exact frequency the first waveform was being played if you could diddle around with where DC offset=0 points were placed within the 32byte waveform to sort of "dodge" or avoid the crackle... essentially, wrap the waveform left/right within the 32byte grid until you find a "sweet spot" where there is no crackle.  assuming there is at least one occurence of DC offset=0 somewhere within each of the waveforms you're trying to match up.

Or are you saying that even if the two waveforms happen to meet cleanly at DC=0, there will still be crackle?

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Re: Streets of Rage - Fighting In The Street (TurboGrafx-16 Chiptune Cover)]

I'm pretty sure I get it now.  7KHz samples are "almost" free, where as anything more requires some big elaborate loop and hogs CPU time.  Makes sense.  That being said, I wasn't saying that 5 channel DMF/HES i linked are ready-to-go in any kind of game or demo, it could probably be vastly optimized more.  I'm just saying that's how it would sound if it were. 

BTW, Updated the links in original post with new files.  The 5 channel version includes just about everything from the 6 channel version now, plus cleaner/louder 8khz samples and now sounds ALMOST the same as the 6 channel version.  Both should sound about as close as I'm going to get to the Genesis track without clean-sounding wave phasing to get that hard KNOCK out of the first 29ms or so of the synth bassline beat.

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Re: Streets of Rage - Fighting In The Street (TurboGrafx-16 Chiptune Cover)]

As mentioned earlier (?) 7.16 Khz is the fastest setting that the CPU timer interrupt can be set to, making it a natural choice for music engines to use for timing their PCM samples.  Faster than that, you'd need to rely on HSync interrupts from the video hardware, or do CPU wait loops (the brute-force way).

So are you saying that you ONLY get that benefit when the samples match the CPU clock?  For example, you couldn't just straight up use the CPU int if, say, the sample was an exact of multiple of 7.16 (like 14.32Khz) at a cost of higher resource usage?

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Re: Streets of Rage - Fighting In The Street (TurboGrafx-16 Chiptune Cover)]

Plus, 7.16KHz drums samples are guaranteed to give you those nostalgic Devil's Crush/Blazing Lazers "feels" 

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Re: Question: Wave-phasing on the PC engine, how feasible is that?]

Hah!  Now, I'm interested in this wave-phasing shenanigans.  If it can be done without that hideous pop I can replicate that HARD knock at the beginning of each bassline beat from the Genesis version of my SoR1St1 cover... which would probably sound great!

Umm, maybe? If you've heard my examples you've probably noticed that this effect is better off used on very specific situations which exclude lower-pitched instruments such as baselines, it's on those that the effect is at its worst...
Now yeah, if it can be done without the popping sounds then it would work wonders for a more bassy sound, especially on a song covered from the Genesis, but if the popping problem can't be solved, which it's proving hard to, then I'd suggest you to stay away from wave-phased basses...
However there are some other trick to get a 'Hard knock' at the beginning of a bass sound, it's probably not what you're looking for, but the trick is to use the arpeggio effect, on which in the very first tick you put the note an octave above (or below depending on what you want) the note you're currently playing, and then in the second tick you switch to the proper note you meant to play an hold on it...
It's not gonna sound good for a lot of songs, but a fair few of them can benefit from this trick...


^Here's what the envelope looks like
http://sta.sh/01g5r8e9ukot
^And here's an example of a song that I made that uses it, it's incomplete, and I don't know if I'll ever complete it, and yeah it has no drums because the original has no drums, it's the reason the bass in it is so heavy...

I know that technique you're talking about!    I stumbled across it trying to get the bass to hit harder.  After I got the hang of the arpeggios and wave macros, i spent a lot of time playing around with it and tried pretty much all the "first tick" combinations, but couldn't find anything I liked.  :/  I even tried tried blending it a little with the second tick, but everything i tried had kind of a goofy twang i didn't like.  Ultimately, i ended up just putting a 1-tick spike at the beginning of the volume macro followed by a short sustain and curved decay, then cranking the volume up to FF... seemed to be the best I could come up with without being able to smoothly daisy-chain waveforms together.

That being said, now that I have the hang of creating the custom waveforms, I honestly think I could create just about any sound I want if the waveforms could be chained smoothly.  I realize, even if this works smoothly, for every tick in Deflemask, the waveform will loop many times before potentially switching to the next tick and waveform, but... if you're clever, you could set up several waveforms that are played one after the other and smoothly transition, and make some REALLY dynamic sounds come out of the PSG.

I know this is kind of a "Have you checked the power cord?" kind of question, guys, but are you sure the ends of the waveforms you're using for this test are lined up/aligned correctly for looping/chaining?  Looking at the shot that CCovell posted, it looks like there is some discrepancy where one wave ends and another begins, and you've essentially created a small saw wave with a short sustain.

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Re: Streets of Rage - Fighting In The Street (TurboGrafx-16 Chiptune Cover)]

I got both of the .hes files to run on my TED v2.2 and they both sound great.

So what's the deal with the 22KHz samples version? Does the PC Engine hardware read them and just play them back at the max sample rate it can do without custom programming or is that included in conversions from Deflemask?

IIRC, each individual PSG channel is capable of many different frequencies, up to and far exceeding 22KHz... at a cost of CPU resource and ROM/RAM space.  7KHz just seems to be the "magic number", by consensus, among programmers types as the optimal rate for using in a game and not hogging up too much CPU resource.  I'm sure Bonknuts or CCovell or somebody could explain why better than I.

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Re: Streets of Rage - Fighting In The Street (TurboGrafx-16 Chiptune Cover)]

As promised, here is the "in-game" mix, using only 5 channels and 8Khz samples.  I was going to do 7Khz, but Deflemask doesn't go that low heh... not much difference between 7k-8k, so you'll get a good idea for how it would sound.  Lacks a little punch and depth of the full chiptune version, but still gets the point across quite well.  And channel5 does not use any noise hits, so it could easily just be copy pasta'd over to channel 3, leaving channel 5 open for sound effects (and noise effects).

^{♫ https://soundcloud.com/user-716572978/streets-of-rage-fighting-in-the-street-turbografx-16-in-game-mix}

You know, you don't really have to use only 5 channels if you don't want to, if you arrange the song in a
clever way, and by clever way I mean put all of the least important stuff on channel 5 (since you're using channel 6 to play the drums) and just cram as much of the song as possible on channels 1 through 4 leaving channel 5 free as much as possible you can just cut out whatever's playing on channel 5 to play sound effects and then resume playing regular music notes on it when sound effects aren't being played!

That's how I arrange my music on deflemask, I'm always mindful of the possibility of sound effects, even when the song is never gonna be used in a real game, I generally put the bass on channel 1 and the drums on channel 6 and everything else in between...
For example, I can put the lead melody on channel 2, play a power chord on channels 3 and 4, and use channel 5 as just a delay/reverb effect for the lead, that way when I cut out channel 5 for SFX I don't lose any detail in the composition, just some minor effect that wouldn't even be noticed when there's a punch sound effect or an explosion going on!
And if you really need to have a whole lot of stuff playing at once, you put the quietest or more subtle parts of the song on channel 5, you know, the parts that would hardly be heard when a sound effect plays!

Just giving you a few tips, but the song still sounds great even with only 5 channels ^^

Yea, I was definitely mindful of that from the beginning.  I wanted to make both a 6 channel mix and a 5 channel "programmer friendly" mix.  As I went along dissecting Yuzo's music, mapping out the full mix, i was noticing he was putting a lot of dead space and other filler stuff on channel3... sure enough, it's like Yuzo already did the work for me as far as putting all the "discardable" stuff on a single channel.  It's like he already knew 

As an aside, if you want to take a journey inside a musical madman's mind, go dissect Yuzo's original Genesis track sometime, channel by channel.  That guy was doing some insanity haha

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Re: Streets of Rage - Fighting In The Street (TurboGrafx-16 Chiptune Cover)]

As promised, here is the "in-game" mix, using only 5 channels and 8Khz samples.  I was going to do 7Khz, but Deflemask doesn't go that low heh... not much difference between 7k-8k, so you'll get a good idea for how it would sound.  Lacks a little punch and depth of the full chiptune version, but still gets the point across quite well.

^{♫ https://soundcloud.com/user-716572978/streets-of-rage-fighting-in-the-street-turbografx-16-in-game-mix}

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Re: Question: Wave-phasing on the PC engine, how feasible is that?]

Hah!  Now, I'm interested in this wave-phasing shenanigans.  If it can be done without that hideous pop I can replicate that HARD knock at the beginning of each bassline beat from the Genesis version of my SoR1St1 cover... which would probably sound great!

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Re: Streets of Rage - Fighting In The Street (TurboGrafx-16 Chiptune Cover)]

SOR resized for PCE res would work out pretty decent:

Lol why resize it?  Just go 1:1-ish and use 336x224 mode.  ;)



That's how IREM rolled haha

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Re: Streets of Rage - Fighting In The Street (TurboGrafx-16 Chiptune Cover)]

Slightly revised and remixed version uploaded at the same link.  The leads won't blow you out of your chair now, and i fixed a nasty pitch issue in the harmony.  Also gave the bassline more punch, turned up the samples a notch, some other tweaks and... presto

^{♫ https://soundcloud.com/user-716572978/streets-of-rage-fighting-in-the-street-turbografx-16-chiptune-cover}

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Streets of Rage - Fighting In The Street (TurboGrafx-16 Chiptune Cover)]

Here's the finished product guys.  My very first chiptune and it's a cover of Yuzo Koshiro's excellent Fighting In The Street (Stage 1) of Streets of Rage.    I think I could probably play with the instruments some more, but I'm calling it done for now.  I might come back later and make some changes, but I want to cover something else next. ;)

Full Chiptune Mix on SoundCloud

Streets of Rage - Fighting In The Street (TurboGrafx-16 Cover) ROM file download

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Re: My very first PC-Engine chiptune! SOR1 St1! (well the first half anyway)]

The one time I had to deal with switching from samples to PSG and back was in a song that was so huge, memory-intensive and sample-heavy that Deflemask didn't even allow me to export a .hes file >w>
So... Yeah, sorry I can't help you on that one... But I think the other folks have had you on the right path...

Yea, I wouldn't have run into the problem if i had not tried to sneak an an extra PSG note into some empty space on the drum channel.  Hopefully, Delek addresses it soon.  I still put in the note i needed, but one of the duplicated guitar pluck notes had go... <sigh>

Actually, I've just remembered another instance where I had to switch in and out from sample mode, it was in my cover of Night of Fire, when I tried exporting the .hes mode it didn't even play the sample...
And it was just a single 8 KHz sample of the voices saying "Fire!"

Yea, you should be able to verify it by doing :

C#4 - -  1000  08FF  1701  <---- Some sample.
-
D#4 - 4  1001  08FF 1700  <------- Any note
-
C#4 - -  1000  08FF  1701 <--------- This sample and all the rest will play back barely audible

Export to HES file then load it up in any recent version of Mednafen.  You'll hear it.  And I've tried manually setting all the bits I could think of, nothing seems to affect it.  It's almost like every tick thereafter, that channel is locked at about [0844] volume or something.

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Re: My very first PC-Engine chiptune! SOR1 St1! (well the first half anyway)]

The one time I had to deal with switching from samples to PSG and back was in a song that was so huge, memory-intensive and sample-heavy that Deflemask didn't even allow me to export a .hes file >w>
So... Yeah, sorry I can't help you on that one... But I think the other folks have had you on the right path...

Yea, I wouldn't have run into the problem if i had not tried to sneak an an extra PSG note into some empty space on the drum channel.  Hopefully, Delek addresses it soon.  I still put in the note i needed, but one of the duplicated guitar pluck notes had go... <sigh>

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Re: My very first PC-Engine chiptune! SOR1 St1! (well the first half anyway)]

Excellent job keeping the usage to a single drum channel. 

The samples look nice-and-short, but I'm afraid that something will eventually have to be done about the sample-rate itself.

For real-world game-style playback on a HuCard, we're going to be limited to 7KHz, 8KHz and 16KHz playback, and the 16KHz comes with a pretty-high CPU cost that would (IMHO) practically limit its use to things like title screens or high-score screens.

But ... on CD hardware, a tune could play a 16Hz sample channel through the ADPCM chip, with almost no CPU cost.

It's nothing to change, or worry about now ... but, as an FYI, it will effect the high-frequency in the samples when I eventually get huzak playing .dmf files.

Oh, I'm aware the sample rate is really high for "in-game" usage.  that's why when this track is done, i plan on making a "game mix" of it using only 5 channels and 8-bit/7khz samples.  Bet it'll still sound pretty damn good. 

Why?  You planning on making an SoR game on the TG-16? he he 

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Re: Megaman PCE thread]

I hope i can get myself back to working on this soundtrack, but, currently having PC problems.  A guy from my wife's work who works in IT is going to try to get me up & running.  Then, to motivate myself, I plan on remaking the Bonk 3 CD soundtrack to sound more like souped up versions of the 1st 2 games.  From there, I should have about 5 songs to finish including the Title Screen from the GB version.

Chop chop.  I recently turned in my boss sprite assignment.  lol

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Re: My very first PC-Engine chiptune! SOR1 St1! (well the first half anyway)]

Yea, I confirmed that happens on real hardware, and filed a bug report on their forum.  Looks like somebody already pointed out a similar problem with the Go Straight track i edited earlier... which, sure enough, switches from note mode > sample mode.  They were looking for confirmation it happens on real hardware, so now that they have it, hopefully it'll get fixed soon.

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Re: My very first PC-Engine chiptune! SOR1 St1! (well the first half anyway)]

Ah, I'm sure Fragmare could handle the MML and stuff.   He can handle fuckin' photoshop.   a DAW wouldn't scare him, I don't think. 

lol.

This sounds better than the other track for sure.    The leads especially.

Lol... thanks?  Photoshop isn't really that complex, once you know the layout, imo.  I dunno about a DAW, but to get things to sound right for this SOR1 tune, I ripped the audio from the Genesis ROM to WAV on a per-channel basis.  Then I'd fire up Sound Forge and load up the resulting WAV files and zoom way in to see what kind of volume envolopes, pitch bends and (if you zoom in super close) the individual repeating waveforms themselves.  Then, since Deflemask lets you basically draw your own HuC6280 volume envelopes and waveforms, I simply put my pixeling skills to use and literally drew what I saw from SoundForge.  Pretty enlightening. 

That's pretty much why I think Deflemask is so much fun to use, with it making PC engine music is so easy!

Yea, after I did a lot of trial and error and figured out what did what, I figured I'd go right to the source material and literally draw the waves/vol.envelopes i needed and the results were pretty nice.  I'm still tweaking that as we speak. 

Also @ Michirin or anybody else who might know... is there some kind of issue with switching PSG channel 5/6 from sample mode [1701] to note mode [10xx][1700], then back to sample mode [1000][1701]?  When i do that, it sounds awesome in Deflemask playback, but in Mednafen and I'm assuming possibly real hardware as well, after the switch the samples are only about 25% or so of their original volume!  And trying to force it to max with [08FF] does not work.  :/  I was trying to sneak a note from the duplicate square wave lead drum sample channel (6) because there was plenty of room and it didn't clip the sample... but that problem reared it's ugly head.

Anybody experience that problem in Deflemask, MML or otherwise?

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Re: My very first PC-Engine chiptune! SOR1 St1! (well the first half anyway)]

Yeah...

Photoshop to me is "fuckin buttons everywhere".    A DAW is pretty similar in that regard.   Once you know what they be, it's like shit this is easy.

also, lol, Soundforge.  Hell yeah.  You're the only other person I know to use it still.   do you use WinAmp too?

Hahah yea I do!  In fact, I used oldschool WinAmp 2.95 with ChipAmp installed to rip the original channel tracks out of SOR1! 

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Re: My very first PC-Engine chiptune! SOR1 St1! (well the first half anyway)]

Ah damn, I caught a timing bug with a couple notes in the synth-trumpets, but i fixed them and fine tuned a couple other instruments as well.  New track is uploaded at the same link.  I'm trying to get everything perfect before I move on to the second half of the song, because the second half is almost like a completely different song, but using mostly the same instruments/waveforms.

Updated Track:

^{♫ https://soundcloud.com/user-716572978/sor1-fits-mednafen-output01}

Also, here are the HES and DMF files in case anybody is interested... as before, if you play the HES file in Mednafen, crank it.  Some channels are mixed quieter compared to others, so it will sound right.

HES file: https://www.sendspace.com/file/mrcbq6
DMF file: https://www.sendspace.com/file/r3w93j

Ah, I'm sure Fragmare could handle the MML and stuff.   He can handle fuckin' photoshop.   a DAW wouldn't scare him, I don't think. 

lol.

This sounds better than the other track for sure.    The leads especially.

Lol... thanks?  Photoshop isn't really that complex, once you know the layout, imo.  I dunno about a DAW, but to get things to sound right for this SOR1 tune, I ripped the audio from the Genesis ROM to WAV on a per-channel basis.  Then I'd fire up Sound Forge and load up the resulting WAV files and zoom way in to see what kind of volume envolopes, pitch bends and (if you zoom in super close) the individual repeating waveforms themselves.  Then, since Deflemask lets you basically draw your own HuC6280 volume envelopes and waveforms, I simply put my pixeling skills to use and literally drew what I saw from SoundForge.  Pretty enlightening. 

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Re: My very first PC-Engine chiptune! SOR1 St1! (well the first half anyway)]

Thanks, everybody!    Working on the second half of the song now.  I must say, I think I picked one hell of a "learner" track to cover.  Yuzo was a madman.

Wow, this one sounds much better than that last SoR track and it's nice hearing that soft sort of "FM-like" sound from deflemask, instead of the usual PSG-sounding stuff.

I really tried to get all the FM-ey pitch bends and resonating sounds close to the original.  I'm still probably going to tweak a few instruments/waveforms before it's over, I'm sure.

That sounds really, really good! 

It's wonderful to hear such excellent results coming from someone that just dived into deflemask a week-or-so ago. 

As a programmer-type, I really have to pray that you're being careful with your sample usage, though! 

Thanks!  There are exactly 3 samples being played on channel 6, all ripped straight outta SOR1... the kick, snareclap and cymbal crash.  Everything else is PSG 

Fantastic! Is this just straight exported from Deflemask?

No, this is -soundrecord'ed straight from Mednafen (which is pretty damn close to how the real machine sounds) and volume adjusted a little louder.  The PC-Engine is, in fact, really boogeying down.  ;)

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / My very first PC-Engine chiptune! SOR1 St1! (well the first half anyway)]

EDIT: Finished

Full Chiptune Mix (6 channels, 22Khz samples):

^{♫ https://soundcloud.com/user-716572978/streets-of-rage-fighting-in-the-street-turbografx-16-chiptune-cover}

Decided to start screwing around in Deflemask and ended up making (the first half anyway) of my very first Turbografx-16 chiptune!  From scratch.  Keep in mind I didn't even know what a tracker looked like until about a week ago lol    It's a cover of Fighting In The Street from Steets of Rage 1.  Feedback welcome 

^{♫ https://soundcloud.com/user-716572978/sor1-fits-mednafen-output01}

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Re: Megaman PCE thread]

Hey, this is pretty rockin!  They're completely remastered into 6 tracks, not just translated straight from the NES, so the extra depth is nice! 

[PCE/TG-16|CD/SGX Discussion / Re: Is this really a PCE???]

Here we go, final revision on the HES file.  I've ripped all the actual SOR2 drum waveforms straight out of Gens Kmod and re-mixed all the channels AGAIN to be properly adjusted relative to the drum track.  I'm learning the problem isn't that the PC-Engine can't do decent bass.  It's that the HuC6280 tends to play DDA samples back very quietly.  Any bass-ey samples are easily lost in the other PSG sounds, unless carefully volume adjusted.

As far as doing the twangy-slidey synth bass, yea, of course the Genesis is the king of that.  That's like the trademark Genesis "sound".  It's got an actual FM chip for that.  You can do something adequately close, like the SOR2 track here, and you could even throw in some LFO effects to get you even closer... but it's not going to sound the same.

I'm simply talking about some thumping bass coming out of the PC-Engine that'll make your pecker move a little bit.  And here it is.  Like I said before, crank it, I had to mix it kind of quiet.  Tested in Mednafen and on real hardware. 

https://www.sendspace.com/file/yfo9yn

[PCE/TG-16|CD/SGX Discussion / Re: Is this really a PCE???]

You wanna hear your Turbob generating some BASS?    Check this out.  It's an HES file I made after tinkering around with the original DMF file a bit.  I've volume adjusted the channels and added cleaner sounding samples to make it sound a bit closer to the original SOR2 mix when played on Mednafen.  As such, it's optimized for Mednafen, but should sound nice in Ootake or on a real PC-Engine/TurboGrafx-16.  If you have an everdrive or other flash card, you can load it up and see how it sounds.  Maybe someone could even report back here with how it sounds on real hardware.

https://www.sendspace.com/file/qp0m6s

P.S. Crank the volume.  No, seriously, turn it up... all the channels have been volume adjusted relative to each other, so not every channel is at ZOMG MAX VOL ELEVENTYSEVEN

[PCE/TG-16|CD/SGX Discussion / Re: Is this really a PCE???]

Dude, Speedy from over on the Deflemask forums did a near perfect version of Go Straight from Streets of Rage 2 on the HuC6280.  Apparently, this whole thing about the PC-Engine not doing bass very well is crap... give it some beefy DDA samples, make sure they're cranked up and in the right format, and you're good to go.  So it would seem, anyway.

Here, I've EQ'ed it a bit:
soundcloud .com/user-716572978/go-straight-yuzo-koshiro-pc-engineturbografx-16-arrangement-speedy

That kick bass and clap sample, though... mmmmmmm good stuff.

Also, if you go into the DMF file and turn off channel 3, it makes virtually no audible difference, so using this in-game would have been a very real possibility if you had to leave a channel open for sound effects.  The drum samples still sound pretty good at 8-bit/7khz too.  It's almost depressing to think about it haha... if Yuzo had worked for Hudson or NEC Ave.

Hearing this, I'm really not surprised at the examples you gave.  In the right hands the HuC6280 sounds amazing.

right but if you're using a sample to achieve bass, it just proves the point that the regular chip-generating can't really get the right sound otherwise, lol.

Samples for what?  The drums on channel 5?  Who cares!  lol the Genesis game used samples for the drums too.  Besides, the snare is PSG anyway.  ;)

Honestly, the bass track on channel 6 is the bass-iest part of this whole song, and that's all native HuC6280, right there. 

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Re: Megaman PCE thread]

Bump.  Bonknuts, check your PM again.    MMerry Christmas!

[PCE/TG-16|CD/SGX Discussion / Re: Is this really a PCE???]

Dude, Speedy from over on the Deflemask forums did a near perfect version of Go Straight from Streets of Rage 2 on the HuC6280.  Apparently, this whole thing about the PC-Engine not doing bass very well is crap... give it some beefy DDA samples, make sure they're cranked up and in the right format, and you're good to go.  So it would seem, anyway.

Here, I've EQ'ed it a bit:
soundcloud .com/user-716572978/go-straight-yuzo-koshiro-pc-engineturbografx-16-arrangement-speedy

That kick bass and clap sample, though... mmmmmmm good stuff.

Also, if you go into the DMF file and turn off channel 3, it makes virtually no audible difference, so using this in-game would have been a very real possibility if you had to leave a channel open for sound effects.  The drum samples still sound pretty good at 8-bit/7khz too.  It's almost depressing to think about it haha... if Yuzo had worked for Hudson or NEC Ave.

Hearing this, I'm really not surprised at the examples you gave.  In the right hands the HuC6280 sounds amazing.

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Re: Megaman PCE thread]

Bonknuts, check your pm.  I sent you a couple frames for the Cutman sprite I am working on a while back.  Let me know what you think of the pixel sauce. 

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Re: Question: Wave-phasing on the PC engine, how feasible is that?]

Loving that Kirby cover! 

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Re: Super Raiden 25th Anniversary Project...]

As for adding in drum tracks to the existing Raiden PSG tunes, that actually seems like it would be easy for someone who is musically talented in some way... I'm no musician by any means, but I managed to crudely "remaster" the PSG versions of Gallantry and Go To Blazes by adding a drum track in and EQ'ing them a bit.  Doesn't sound too bad, I think I got them to line up pretty nicely...

PSG Gallantry with drums added: soundcloud .com/user-716572978/01-gallantry-with-drums?in=user-716572978/sets/hucard-raiden-psg-with-drums

PSG Go To Blazes with drums added: soundcloud .com/user-716572978/05-go-to-blazes-with-drums?in=user-716572978/sets/hucard-raiden-psg-with-drums

A feasible solution to the weak percussion in original PSG tune! I love it. IMHO, the percussion can be mixed lower in your Gallantry example—but the Boss tune is *perfect* as-is. Really nice.

Now I am curious about an entire PSG + drum soundtrack.


ASIDE: I must be in the minority, but I grew to enjoy the Red Book tunes in Super Raiden... Initially I was not impressed, though...I was disappointed. However, it grew on me...

Decided to do the other three PSG Raiden tracks and add the drums... not bad. 

soundcloud .com/user-716572978/02-lightning-war-with-drums?in=user-716572978/sets/hucard-raiden-psg-with-drums

soundcloud .com/user-716572978/03-rough-and-tumble-with-drums?in=user-716572978/sets/hucard-raiden-psg-with-drums

soundcloud .com/user-716572978/04-fighting-thunder-with-drums?in=user-716572978/sets/hucard-raiden-psg-with-drums

EDIT: Aaaaand here are the same tracks with more authentic sounding drums down-sampled to 7KHz etc. for that old timey PSG drum sample feel. 

soundcloud .com/user-716572978/sets/hucard-raiden-psg-authentic-drums

Lol, the HuCard Raiden soundtrack sounds like a whole different OST with audible drums.  The 2nd version with the more authentic PSG-styled drums almost sounds like the Raiden OST we would have got if the guy from Devil's Crush had composed the drum tracks.