That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!

[PCEngineHell]

Just two tidbits to add to this thread, for the sake of keeping it alive and updated with content.

One is this ironic quote from Tobias:

I'm not really a gamer anymore, I've been at that for 30 years now and my backlog is growing and growing. I haven't even finished (most of) the NES and PC Engine games yet which I bought back then.

Source: wayback.tested.com/tech/gaming/456719-best-crt-retro-games/

And also this, as I am not sure if it has been posted elsewhere (the letter from Hudson that Tobias faked):



Not bumping to stir up more drama or anything, but mainly just an effort to keep things chronicled concerning all things Tobias.

[Mathius]

Hmm the way that letter is worded it kinda seems legit. But, yeah....

[NightWolve]

Not bumping to stir up more drama or anything, but mainly just an effort to keep things chronicled concerning all things Tobias.

No, that's fine, I wanted this a while back actually since the links Tobias had posted with his account here had all but expired and some people wanted specific evidence of "Sapphire-Gate" - this was a piece of it and was previously unavailable until now.

Did you get this with the Wayback Internet archive perhaps?

Looking at it, I think I see what he did... Assuming he didn't fake it, he just falsely used it as cover to pretend the Sapphire CDs that he himself had just paid to press fell under Hudson's bad batches... So by contacting them, and somehow causing them to reveal this, he figured he could now use it as cover and tell people that the imperfections of his bootlegs were apart of Hudson's bad batches that he got a hold of that didn't get recalled, something like that. Bottomline, he used it to provide him cover for his fakes which he himself paid a CD plant to press.

So now, I'm not sure we can call that document a forgery. Could be legit. But we know for sure how he falsely manipulated/misled the public with it.

[PCEngineHell]

Nah its def a photoshop. Something I did not look at real close before, mainly because years back I had much lower res monitors, but the text and logos and stuff pop off the paper, as in they are not on it. None of the folds and creases effect them or their geometry or detail in any sort of way. Oddly enough I still had it from when I inquired about it to Hudson years back. A copy was in my Comcast sent mail from Oct. 2005. I don't have their reply back anymore though, nor the reply I got back from Care4Data..

I will speculate though that it is possible Tobias did try what you said, but that Hudson did not send him the response he needed, so he had to forge something.

[BigusSchmuck]

Nah its def a photoshop. Something I did not look at real close before, mainly because years back I had much lower res monitors, but the text and logos and stuff pop off the paper, as in they are not on it. None of the folds and creases effect them or their geometry or detail in any sort of way. Oddly enough I still had it from when I inquired about it to Hudson years back. A copy was in my Comcast sent mail from Oct. 2005. I don't have their reply back anymore though, nor the reply I got back from Care4Data..

I will speculate though that it is possible Tobias did try what you said, but that Hudson did not send him the response he needed, so he had to forge something.

I for one can't tell if it's fake or real. Then again, spotting forgeries isn't my specialty.

[PCEngineHell]

I for one can't tell if it's fake or real. Then again, spotting forgeries isn't my specialty.

You dont have to be, all you need to do is realize that none of the text or logos or anything bends in any sort of way, even though the paper has lots of bends and creases, and there is no crease marks going through any text that overlaps one of the crease marks.


EDIT: I should mention this too. He blurs out the supposed Hudson contacts name/info, as well as the number to the head office. I get why he did his own, but there would have been no reason to do this, unless he was concerned that someone would have checked up and confirmed this was an actual letter. In this case the name probably would have been confirmed as fake if someone who actually spoke Japanese called and made in inquire, so the lie would not have lasted so long. Blurring out the fake name bought him time.

[NightWolve]

I for one can't tell if it's fake or real. Then again, spotting forgeries isn't my specialty.

You dont have to be, all you need to do is realize that none of the text or logos or anything bends in any sort of way, even though the paper has lots of bends and creases, and there is no crease marks going through any text.

Aaaah, you're right, I see it now!! I had to download the image so I could zoom in and look at it more closely/carefully. He tried to use a folded paper for authenticity, but things like that Hudson Bee logo on the upper left were added over where clearly the paper is crinkled a bit, yet the image is unaffacted which means it was added after this paper was scanned...

Wow, what a douchebag... So I think the charge of forgery stands in furtherance of his con job back then...

[Mathius]

Wow...very incriminating.

[BigusSchmuck]

I for one can't tell if it's fake or real. Then again, spotting forgeries isn't my specialty.

You dont have to be, all you need to do is realize that none of the text or logos or anything bends in any sort of way, even though the paper has lots of bends and creases, and there is no crease marks going through any text that overlaps one of the crease marks.


EDIT: I should mention this too. He blurs out the supposed Hudson contacts name/info, as well as the number to the head office. I get why he did his own, but there would have been no reason to do this, unless he was concerned that someone would have checked up and confirmed this was an actual letter. In this case the name probably would have been confirmed as fake if someone who actually spoke Japanese called and made in inquire, so the lie would not have lasted so long. Blurring out the fake name bought him time.

I could have my brother call that office up if it still existed. He lives over there in Japan and speaks almost flawless Japanese... Yeah I see what you mean now, had to download it myself to see these imperfections..

[PCEngineHell]

It wouldn't exist anymore. Hudson was bought out and dismantled by Konami. Moot anyway, obvious fake is obviously fake.

[Joe Redifer]

Also I would be surprised if Hudson would actually use the word "though". That just doesn't sound like something that fits in with the rest of the sentence structure which is struggling to be English. "Though" is too casual a word IMO. I think it would not have been in there at all and it would have fit better if it weren't.

[jtucci31]

Also I would be surprised if Hudson would actually use the word "though". That just doesn't sound like something that fits in with the rest of the sentence structure which is struggling to be English. "Though" is too casual a word IMO. I think it would not have been in there at all and it would have fit better if it weren't.

The word "weird" stuck out to me more. Seemed very informal for a company to use that word.

[NightWolve]

Source:  wayback.tested.com/tech/gaming/456719-best-crt-retro-games/

And also this, as I am not sure if it has been posted elsewhere (the letter from Hudson that Tobias faked):

Also I would be surprised if Hudson would actually use the word "though". That just doesn't sound like something that fits in with the rest of the sentence structure which is struggling to be English. "Though" is too casual a word IMO. I think it would not have been in there at all and it would have fit better if it weren't.

The word "weird" stuck out to me more. Seemed very informal for a company to use that word.

Yeah, that's another thing that sticks out. He tried to make it sound Engrishy, but then slips up by throwing a term like 'weird' in there... I'd be pretty upset if I got duped enough by something as shoddy as this years ago and bought his bootlegs thinking they were real as a result!

I can better see now how he set this con-job up - it went something like this:

• He watched for years how Sapphire CDs went through the eBay madness of big-spending nuts throwing hundreds of dollars at it! Sapphire was one of the first PC Engine games to experience this. So naturally, he wanted to cash in and that's how he picked his first game to bootleg/press, eBay picked it for him!
  
• He decided he wanted to create matching counterfeits to pass as originals for 2 reasons: a) originals in principle fetch more money than admitted fakes/counterfeits/bootlegs/etc., and b) he wanted to be able to phish for suckers with eBay which is an effective instrument in finding big-spending nutjobs all around the world. However, to evade their anti-counterfeit policies and not see any sales or auction listings shut down, he'd need to sell his lie for that reason too!
  
• So the scheme is set, locked and loaded. He finds a CD pressing plant to make his counterfeits... but there's a snag in the plan. When his order arrives, he sees that the coloring on the CD labeling is off, mistakes were made, etc. and so they don't quite perfectly match... Somebody might discover there's quite a difference versus the originals... What to do ??
  
• Given points 1 to 3, he would need a believable cover story to sell the lie that this new batch of Sapphires were originals even despite imperfections/differences... So he decided to forge a letter by Hudson where he pretended to have sent one copy from this "newly discovered batch in some warehouse" of his for verification of authenticity by Hudson themselves.
  
  This forged letter is written to sell a story that he actually mailed a copy from his batch to Hudson, they looked at it for him, saw nothing "weird" about it, mentioned how it could be apart of failed productions that were recalled at some point, etc. and they then mailed it back to him! With this, he floats the possibility that what he has are NOT bootlegs, but merely poorly produced authentic copies that were recalled until someone discovered them sitting somewhere and decided to sell rather than destroy them and what not and that Hudson actually looked at a copy for him and didn't find anything particularly wrong...

And there you have it, ladies and gentlemen...

The making of "Sapphire-Gate..."


So, I think that pieces it together for clarity. Jimmy Hapa, one of the Youtube personalities, had asked me for links, evidence, something more verifiable to really prove the case that Tobias was a lying fraudster. I did provide links to the 'fudoh' account, but yeah, this forged document was unavailable at the time so it could be useful for others in the future.

You do sometimes need to provide rock-solid evidence for some people who'll treat the matter as a judicial session and demand you act as an organized prosecutor, have all your links, facts, source quotes, etc. on demand, and all in order, etc.! ;) Anywhere that doubt can be cast, they'll seize upon if they really don't want to believe or accept it.

[SamIAm]

I've been helping dozens...maybe hundreds...of Japanese adults of all levels try to render English for the past six years now. I've also worked as the only foreigner in a Japanese company for the past two, and I see business documents all the time.

If that letter was written by a Japanese person, I'll eat my hat.

[PCEngineHell]

Yeah had I known people actually wanted to see the letter again I'd have looked for it and posted it prior. I didn't realize it was wiped off the net, but then again, reading that it was doesn't surprise me.

[elmer]

Looks like Tobias has actually had the balls to restock the Xak III and SO II translations, and start selling them again ...

https://pceworks.wordpress.com/availability/

I guess this that this means that the leopard really hasn't changed his spots. 

Ahhhh ... fr*k! 

[geise]

...but he gave away all those pressed discs...

[Psycho Punch]

Pressed Disc giveaway round two is about to start. Tobias must offer tribute to his PCEFX overlords.

[seieienbu]

Looks like Tobias has actually had the balls to restock the Xak III and SO II translations, and start selling them again ...

https://pceworks.wordpress.com/availability/

I guess this that this means that the leopard really hasn't changed his spots. 

Ahhhh ... fr*k! 

I'm sure you've thought about it at least a bit so I'll go ahead and ask.  Would reproductions for profit stop you from further translation works?

[NecroPhile]

Looks like Tobias has actually had the balls to restock the Xak III and SO II translations, and start selling them again ...

https://pceworks.wordpress.com/availability/

I guess this that this means that the leopard really hasn't changed his spots. 

Ahhhh ... fr*k! 

Are you surprised?  He's doing it for the love of it!

And by "it" he means "money".

[elmer]

Are you surprised?  He's doing it for the love of it!

And by "it" he means "money".

Yes, actually, I am a bit surprised. Stupid me! 

Sure, he's an absolute money-grubbing bastidge, but I was dumb enough to think that he'd learned his lesson from the outcry over his last duplication of translations against the wishes of their authors ... and he even said that he wasn't going to repro (at least those) translations again.

He's already found the way to neuter translator's complaints ... just give away the translations for free, but charge for the original Japanese versions (with a nice space in the package for the translation).

But, he seems to have stopped his "free for shipping" disc-only giveaways, and games are now "free with purchase" ... i.e. not-free at all.

It's such an unnecessary thing for him to do. He's already making plenty of money from his collections and "specials" from idiots that want shelf-candy and who believe that spending money and having "stuff" makes them important.

Which is, I suppose, the point ... those are the kind of ass-hats that want the English translations inside the sealed package so the whole thing remains pure and pristine and can be "graded".

[Arkhan Asylum]

but I was dumb enough to think that he'd learned his lesson from the outcry over his last duplication of translations against the wishes of their authors ... and he even said that he wasn't going to repro (at least those) translations again.

At least you backpedaled on thinking he'd learned his lesson.   Basically everyone else wants to touch him inappropriately and high five him now.

It's such an unnecessary thing for him to do. He's already making plenty of money from his collections and "specials" from idiots that want shelf-candy and who believe that spending money and having "stuff" makes them important.

You mean *dumbfucks, maybe.

lol.

This is all a shitshow.

like 90 hippos doing that ass-spray thing all at once while we've got our mouths open.

[crazydean]

So I finally decided to look up this MC bundle...huh...that's it? I'm gonna go to the print shop and see what I can put the Magical Chase cover art on. Mugs? Mouse pads? T-shirts? I can charge whatever I want and idiots still buy it! What are we all waiting for?

[Arkhan Asylum]

So I finally decided to look up this MC bundle...huh...that's it? I'm gonna go to the print shop and see what I can put the Magical Chase cover art on. Mugs? Mouse pads? T-shirts? I can charge whatever I want and idiots still buy it! What are we all waiting for?

initially, other people were going to do TobiasStuff(TM) and not be dicks about it...

but I guess it became easier to just supply/work with him.

If you do alternatives for not-moron prices, that'd be coo.

[elmer]

Looks like Tobias has actually had the balls to restock the Xak III and SO II translations, and start selling them again ...

Ahhhh ... fr*k! 

I'm sure you've thought about it at least a bit so I'll go ahead and ask.  Would reproductions for profit stop you from further translation works?

I didn't want to reply to this too quickly, and take some time to calm down.

I think that the answer has to be "yes".

I could either continue helping the homebrew scene here, or just move on and help with translations or development in the X68000 or PC98 communities.

I've had an unused X68000 sitting beside my desk for over a year now, waiting for some attention, because I've been busy with LoX and the PCE.


The LoX dubs have attracted the attention of professional VO talent, who I really wouldn't expect to touch this kind of non-paying work with a barge-pole.
 
Something about this project has drawn people out, and taken it far beyond the level that I would have expected possible from a "fan-dub".

Like me, they're expecting that they are giving away their time and skills for a good cause, in a charitable act, to help make something good ... and not for some greedy ass to make money off of. The dub itself will be released under a Creative Commons Non-Commercial-Use license.

If PCEWorks rips off their work, and Tobias starts selling it at his usual high prices, or pulls his other little trick of not-technically but definitely-practically selling it ... and then stupid YouTube "celebs" start praising those ripoffs (which they would), then how on earth could I look at those actors/actresses in the face afterwards, or ever ask them to participate in anything else ever again.

I love the PCE-CD, but if that happened, I'd just rather spend my time doing something else.

[NecroPhile]

Some of you translator peeps have odd priorities. 

[Tw3ek]

I don't think it's odd priorities as much as it is you don't want to put all your time and effort into something only to have it immediately stolen and making someone else a boatload of money. Stuff like that, especially for things like RPGs takes an incredible amount of time, so for someone to rip it off right away is maddening.

[NecroPhile]

I believe NecroPhile was ribbing on Elmer for the pc98 and x68000 love.

That's definitely part of it, but it's also that they (elmer's not the first to say such things) are more worried about the few people that would buy/sell translations than the vast majority, those that truly appreciate the work that goes into them and will tell Tobias (et al) to get fucked.  So who exactly are they making the translations for?  It can't be for themselves or the 'good guys', not primarily anyway.

[SignOfZeta]

If people who translate 20 year old video games for free had normal priorities they wouldn't be doing that sort of thing in the first place.

I agree that it shouldn't matter what some asshole does with the patch, it has zero affect on those it was intended for, but it's hard to accept that when it's your work.

I suppose we could just produce decent bootlegs of it ourselves for like $6 a piece or whatever and...see what happens...see what excuses noobs come up with to keep buying Tobias's shit.

It wouldn't have to come with Adol's silver cock ring or whatever, just a CD in a case with art.

[seieienbu]

I can't say that I would blame you if someone stealing your work and selling it for personal gain would dissuade you from continuing.  The way I see it, it's less about everyone buying them and more about the one guy selling them. 

Also, there are possibly more legal ramifications if something is being sold than something is merely available for free but I'm no lawyer so I wouldn't know anything about that.

[esteban]

If people who translate 20 year old video games for free had normal priorities they wouldn't be doing that sort of thing in the first place.

I agree that it shouldn't matter what some asshole does with the patch, it has zero affect on those it was intended for, but it's hard to accept that when it's your work.

I suppose we could just produce decent bootlegs of it ourselves for like $6 a piece or whatever and...see what happens...see what excuses noobs come up with to keep buying Tobias's shit.

It wouldn't have to come with Adol's silver cock ring or whatever, just a CD in a case with art.

I have no interest in Adol's cock ring, but anal beads are a different story.

I think we could still hit the $6-8 price point for CD+case+inserts+anal beads (as long as folks don't object to me recycling my used anal beads).

Obviously, we'll claim that a string of Roda Nuts were the inspiration for the tchotchke.

[xcrement5x]

I can easily see the frustration though, you work years on something and pour your heart into it to share something you enjoy with others, and what happens except some tool turns around takes the whole thing slaps it in a shiny packages and starts making money off it. 

If you release something intentionally with the hope that it not be distributed a certain way and it still happens then why shouldn't you be upset.  The people who supposedly value your work apparently don't appreciate it enough to listen to your desire for how it should be distributed free of charge and without being printed. 

[OldMan]

The dub itself will be released under a Creative Commons Non-Commercial-Use license.

Talk to a lawyer. If he sells copies, that is against the licensing terms, and a cease and desist can be sent - both to him and wherever he's selling it. Also lock-down the terms of use for all the voice tracks; if everyone agrees to give you the rights, you can start a coyright suit for the audio (which he has no rights to)

Not that that will stop him.

[elmer]

I suppose we could just produce decent bootlegs of it ourselves for like $6 a piece or whatever and...see what happens...see what excuses noobs come up with to keep buying Tobias's shit.

I believe that SamIAm and I have already talked about that in other threads, and are in agreement that it's something that we'd really prefer not happen ... and it wouldn't have any effect on what Tobias chooses to do, anyway.

Really, I shouldn't have brought this up now ... it's just a huge downer at a time when I should be concentrating on the dub.

[Keith Courage]

I'm not a programmer so completely understandable if this would be a pain in the ass. I've always wondered how difficult it would be to add a disclaimer screen to the intro of any fan translated game saying that if you've paid for this translation then you've been hosed.

[elmer]

I'm not a programmer so completely understandable if this would be a pain in the ass. I've always wondered how difficult it would be to add a disclaimer screen to the intro of any fan translated game saying that if you've paid for this translation then you've been hosed.

It would be a huge technical PITA to do it in a way that would make it difficult to remove ... but it's possible.

The thing is, it would be not only ugly, but also rather pointless, since Tobias has already figured out how to neuter that strategy.

He just has to sell customers reproductions of the original Japanese games, and then optionally allow them to add a "free" copy of the English translation to their purchase, as an act of pure generosity on his part.

The end-result is the same ... he's basically charged people for English translation, but it's been done in a round about way that purchasers would feel good about ... probably even a lot of people here.

It would also technically get around any licensing restrictions for the dub ... or there would at-least be a good argument to make that it does, that would require expensive legal battles to litigate.

He knows this, and he already did it with Dracula X.

[Gypsy]

The end-result is the same ... he's basically charged people for English translation, but it's been done in a round about way that purchasers would feel good about ... probably even a lot of people here.

It would also technically get around any licensing restrictions for the dub ... or there would at-least be a good argument to make that it does, that would require expensive legal battles to litigate.

He knows this, and he already did it with Dracula X.

I wouldn't feel good about giving Tobias one damn cent. Of course, I speak only for myself.

Anyway, I will also add, I totally appreciate the awesome work you, Sam and anyone else involved are doing here. I look forward to playing these games. \m/

[Johnpv]

I will say this if you guys decided to have your own copies pressed I would gladly support it.  I guess the point is that I would not have an issue with throwing money your guys way for what you've done.  There's so many awesome games that did not come to our shores that I would love to play.

[esteban]

I will say this if you guys decided to have your own copies pressed I would gladly support it.  I guess the point is that I would not have an issue with throwing money your guys way for what you've done.  There's so many awesome games that did not come to our shores that I would love to play.

It shouldn't surprise you that most of the folks who work on translations/dubs do *not* want to be involved in any scheme that prints/presses/mints physical copies, let alone charges any money for *anything* (even charging for shipping would soil the entire endeavor).

The motives must be unrelentingly non-profit, otherwise, they wouldn't have committed to the translation/dub in the first place.

This is why Tobias (and his ilk) are such opportunistic, parasitical douchebags—his actions only help collectards who want a trophy (now!), whilst demoralizing the few folks who have the skills, time and desire to pursue future PCE projects.

[seieienbu]

This is why Tobias (and his ilk) are such opportunistic, parasitical douchebags—his actions only help collectards who want a trophy (now!), whilst demoralizing the few folks who have the skills, time and desire to pursue future PCE projects.

This is the crux of the matter imo.  I've had games for 20 years that I would like to one day see in English.  The PC Engine isn't exactly the SNES over here with fan groups champing at the bit to find something new to translate.  The top tier SNES stuff was finished ages ago and now random stuff gets English translation patches.  Meanwhile fantastic PC Engine games go untranslated forever.  When people do step up their works get marginalized by a profiteering jerk ending in people being potentially less interested in continuing work on the platform.

If Tobias wasn't self serving but was actually doing this for the love of PCE he would see that making a profit now means fewer translations later.

[sirhcman]

This is the crux of the matter imo.  I've had games for 20 years that I would like to one day see in English.  The PC Engine isn't exactly the SNES over here with fan groups champing at the bit to find something new to translate.  The top tier SNES stuff was finished ages ago and now random stuff gets English translation patches.  Meanwhile fantastic PC Engine games go untranslated forever.  When people do step up their works get marginalized by a profiteering jerk ending in people being potentially less interested in continuing work on the platform.

What about all the SNES repros being sold on etsy, aliexpress, ebay, conventions with translations? Surely these sellers aren't kicking bucks back to the translators either.

[Gypsy]

This is the crux of the matter imo.  I've had games for 20 years that I would like to one day see in English.  The PC Engine isn't exactly the SNES over here with fan groups champing at the bit to find something new to translate.  The top tier SNES stuff was finished ages ago and now random stuff gets English translation patches.  Meanwhile fantastic PC Engine games go untranslated forever.  When people do step up their works get marginalized by a profiteering jerk ending in people being potentially less interested in continuing work on the platform.

What about all the SNES repros being sold on etsy, aliexpress, ebay, conventions with translations? Surely these sellers aren't kicking bucks back to the translators either.

They are pieces of shit just like Tobias.

[sirhcman]

This is the crux of the matter imo.  I've had games for 20 years that I would like to one day see in English.  The PC Engine isn't exactly the SNES over here with fan groups champing at the bit to find something new to translate.  The top tier SNES stuff was finished ages ago and now random stuff gets English translation patches.  Meanwhile fantastic PC Engine games go untranslated forever.  When people do step up their works get marginalized by a profiteering jerk ending in people being potentially less interested in continuing work on the platform.

What about all the SNES repros being sold on etsy, aliexpress, ebay, conventions with translations? Surely these sellers aren't kicking bucks back to the translators either.

They are pieces of shit just like Tobias.

The point I was trying to make was that it hasn't stopped translators from continuing to translate SNES games

[CrackTiger]

When the ratio of Nintendo game translation teams to PC Engine translation teams is 100 to 1, the fact that any have reconsidered new projects because of what some people done with them... it's the equivalent of the entire active PCE translation scene giving up.

We already know some of the damage PCEWorks has done.

[Phase]

Edit: Ignore

[EmperorIng]

You can point out bullshit and make fun of people who spend premium money for printed-discs with fan translations, but you're not going to stop those poor saps who have a fetish for plastic and cardboard. Sometimes it's better to laugh at the fool parting with his money - especially if it's a mega-swindle like the epic saga neo-geo's Aero Fighters 3 Debacle.

[Phase]

Thanks for the advise EmperorIng.  Yeah I may just not bother with a response on there.

[turboswimbz]

Speaking of Repo's anyone have one of these?

https://videogamereproductions.com/collections/pc-engine-cd-turbo-grafx-duo-reproduction-games?page=4


Interested to see one compared to the real deal . . . Is there already a spot where we discussed these?

FYI:
I'm pretty sure I have seen at least one of these trying to be passed off as real...

[CrackTiger]

Looks like inkjet covers and cdr discs. Makes Tobias' products seem like a good deal by comparison.

[Mathius]

You can point out bullshit and make fun of people who spend premium money for printed-discs with fan translations, but you're not going to stop those poor saps who have a fetish for plastic and cardboard. Sometimes it's better to laugh at the fool parting with his money - especially if it's a mega-swindle like the epic saga neo-geo's Aero Fighters 3 Debacle.

I remember that. They even tricked international gaming mags into running the bogus story. I love my AES but I stay far away from that community. Every time I went to NG.com bitd it felt like I was walking into a seedy bar from any 80s action movie. You know the kind; full of eye patch wearing, cigar smoking martial arts thugs.