System Card Version Guide

[SuperPlay]

I have been looking around to find information reading the different System card versions and their differences.  I have compiled the following list from several sources (listed at the end!) and thought that others may find this useful.

Please feel free to comment and correct any detail.


Accessing saved data management menu:

To access the save data management menu press "Select" on the splash screen.  The following options are shown on a menu (top to bottom) Delete, Format, End


System Card 1.0

* Bundled with the debut Japanese CD-ROM system release (Not released in the US)
* Also available for purchase
* Lacks CD+G support,
* Only card that will allow the CD version of Altered Beast to play flawlessly
* Has built-in memory viewer and debugger (Hold Up + Right + Button I + Button II, then press Select)


System Card 2.0

* Bundled with the debut US CD-ROM system release (Also released in Japan)
* US Version start up screen shows "TurboGrafx CD 2.0"
* Adds CD+G support
* Debug function that came with 1.0 removed
* 1 MegaBit of RAM


System Card 2.1

* Not packaged with console release, sold separately
* Added an auto disc-change feature
* 1 MegaBit of RAM


System Card 3.0 (Super System Card)

* Not packaged with console release, sold separately
* Released in Japan and the US
* Support for Super CD games
* 2 Megabits of RAM


Arcade Card Duo (For DUO/DUO-R/DUR-RX/SUPER CD-ROM)

* Not packaged with console release, sold separately
* Support for Arcade CD releases (Strider, Neo-Geo conversions, Sapphire, etc)
* Does not contain System Card 3.0 BIOS as this is already built into the Duo / super systems
* Start up screen displays "Super CD-ROM2 version 3.00"
* 16 Megabits of RAM (16 Mebabits on card + 2 Megbits internal Ram = 18 Megabits)


Arcade Card Pro (For original PC engine with CD-ROM attachment)

* Not packaged with console release, sold separately
* Support for Arcade CD releases (Strider, Neo-Geo conversions, Sapphire, etc)
* System Card 3.0 BIOS on card
* Start up screen displays "Super CD-ROM2 version 3.00"
* If you use an Arcade Card Pro card with a US Duo you will get you the PCE SuperCD screen
* 17.5 MegaBits of RAM


Game Express card 1.0

* Used to play of unlicensed Game Express CD games
* CD Express Games do not work with official system cards
* Can only access 64k of memory that is built into the CD unit
* Can only play earlier Game Express titles


Game Express card 1.1

* Used to play of unlicensed Game Express CD games
* CD Express Games do not work with official system cards
* Can access the 192k+64k of memory in the way that the arcade card DUO does, that's on the Super CDROM 3.0 unit and the Duo models.
* Can play all Game Express titles



Credit where due:

The following web resources were used in the creation of this version list.

http://www.lingjr.com/collection_nec_pce.htm
http://magweasel.com/2009/07/17/i-love-the-pc-engine-cd-rom-system/


Also thanks to the following members of https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums

Bonknuts: Game Express card versions and technical detail
Necromancer: Debugger access method for system card version 1.0 (Via http://www.pcecp.com/)
Td741: Arcade Card Pro card with a US Duo info

[NecroPhile]

Are you certain that the Arcade Card Pro has 18Mb of RAM, or does it only have 17.5Mb and use the built in 64k to reach 18Mb total?

[Vecanti]

I've read a few times that it is not possible to for Arcade/Super CD games to be as good as a cartridge games.  Or that it would be impossible to do something like SFII on CD.

I have wondered why that is.  The Super CD has 2megabits of RAM.  Taking Street Fighter 2 for example, one level, sound, music, and 2 characters has to take up less than 2megabits of space, right?  Otherwise if a single active level was more the 2megs, then just doing the math, it doesn't seem like you could fit 10 characters, 11 levels, sounds, music, bonus levels, title screens, end credit animations and their music in to 16megabits.

Same for the Arcade card.  It has more then 16meg so couldn't you just load the entire SFII into it at once?

I thought the CD cards acted just like a regular HuCard, only it can keep getting reloaded when needed.  Or is that wrong?

[Tatsujin]

The considerable most impressive game in the whole 16-bit era (in a  pure technical view) was made on ACD base

Also the ACD card delivered fantastic Garou Densetsu, Ryuko no ken and other NG ports, which wouldn't have been possible the same way on a single Hucard, unless you would have split 'em up to several hueys.

But what you can realize in many huey vs. CD games, is that the CD games are usually weaker in technical points of view (e.g. R-Type, Super Raiden). But I guess this has also a lot to do of how they were programmed, as other even more impressive games do proove the contrary (e.g. WoT, GoT). I think it was also easier to prorgamm a huey game than a cd one.

The hell, check even Seirei Senshi Spriggan, which is a simple CD-ROM game, but kicks most of any other programs asses.

Btw. Super Play. Thanks for the good work. Even wasn't aware of the debugger in the 1.0

[termis]

I understand that just like the Arcade Card Duo, Game Express 1.1 cards supposedly be only used on the Super CD-ROM2 and the Duo models -- because it needs that additional 192k RAM built into those units.  That info's according to the Japanese PC engine FAQ site here (#26 on list):

http://www6.airnet.ne.jp/wataru/pcefaq/pcefaq.htm#2-26

Basically, this means that there's no way to play the later game express titles on the briefcase setup or the TG16 + CDROM unit.  (No big loss, from what I hear)

Though I wonder if GE 1.1 card can be used on brifcase/tg16 cd-rom set to play older GE 1.0 titles (since 1.0 titles don't require the extra 192k RAM of Duo/SCD unts), or does 1.1 card not even let you boot up on those older cd-rom units?

I've read a few times that it is not possible to for Arcade/Super CD games to be as good as a cartridge games.  Or that it would be impossible to do something like SFII on CD.

I have wondered why that is.  The Super CD has 2megabits of RAM.  Taking Street Fighter 2 for example, one level, sound, music, and 2 characters has to take up less than 2megabits of space, right?  Otherwise if a single active level was more the 2megs, then just doing the math, it doesn't seem like you could fit 10 characters, 11 levels, sounds, music, bonus levels, title screens, end credit animations and their music in to 16megabits.

Same for the Arcade card.  It has more then 16meg so couldn't you just load the entire SFII into it at once?

I thought the CD cards acted just like a regular HuCard, only it can keep getting reloaded when needed.  Or is that wrong?

I'd agree with on your thoughts.  Though I'm no hardware expert, it certainly sounds technically feasible to do all the loading at once.

However, it wouldn't make much sense for a developer to only use say, 16 Mbits of CD-ROM space and load it to the arcade card on a single load -- if that's the case, why not just release it on a HuCard and have access to a wider market?  I'd imagine this is exactly why they chose to release SF2 for the HuCard instead.

Though I also wonder myself -- for SF2:CE, load all the gameplay stuff on RAM first (player sprites, backgrounds, SFX, etc), and then just play the BGM off of redbook CD -- that would've been a pretty cool way to do it.  Still, I'd imagine that as a business case, the benefit of redbook audio alone wouldn't t offset the limited target market for the time (those with PCE CD system + Arcade card + 6 button controller(s), or were willing to spring for all this instead of buying one of the other ports).

[Tatsujin]

Lol. This FAQ is real fun to read. I like how everything from hudson (even the name itself) is related to old trains and steam engine, since the initial hudson company was a publisher for train photos/books. And then, there are those momotaro dentetsu games

[TheClash603]

Never knew about the Arcade Card from a numbers perspective before.  I wish that this bad boy could've come out in the US, and that even more games were made for it.  It seems from a technical perspective that the ACD would have extended the system's life for a much longer time.

[Tatsujin]

That what it was supposed to do in the first place. But coming out quite lately in '94, there was not much it could do against the already anounced 32-Bit genereation aka PSx & SS etc.
Also its relatively high price tag of 12800yen for the DUO and 17800yen for the PRO card, was more scaring than helping to bring it to the user.

[NecroPhile]

I've read a few times that it is not possible to for Arcade/Super CD games to be as good as a cartridge games.  Or that it would be impossible to do something like SFII on CD.

The existence and quality of the Arcade Card fighting games (a.k.a. - something like SFII') prove those notions as utterly false.

Same for the Arcade card.  It has more then 16meg so couldn't you just load the entire SFII into it at once?

SFII' is actually 20Mb, so it wouldn't quite fit in the Arcade Card's 18Mb.  Maybe it would fit if the music were removed and switched to redbook, though 2Mb sounds to me like an awful lot for just tunes.

I thought the CD cards acted just like a regular HuCard, only it can keep getting reloaded when needed.  Or is that wrong?

I think you have it right, more or less; as I recall, the Arcade Cards are a bit different, as they can only be used as storage space and can't be used to run code directly.  You can go spelunking in past threads if you want more tech. information from far more knowledgeable peeps (like ccovell, tom/Bonknuts, etc.) - there's dang good stuff in there..... if you can find it.

Also the ACD card delivered fantastic Garou Densetsu, Ryuko no ken and other NG ports, which wouldn't have been possible the same way on a single Hucard, unless you would have split 'em up to several hueys.

With mappers, HuCards could be hundreds of Mb in size, so anything on the Arcade Card could be done on a single huey (obviously minus the cd specific stuff).  Silly bazzy. 

[Tatsujin]

With mappers, HuCards could be hundreds of Mb in size, so anything on the Arcade Card could be done on a single huey (obviously minus the cd specific stuff).  Silly bazzy. 

LoL. Don't tell me, dem enthusiastic advocate of the Sapphire on Huey theory. Silly Back

[NecroPhile]

LoL. Don't tell me, dem enthusiastic advocate of the Sapphire on Huey theory. Silly Back

Well, it's technically possible; practical, not so much.  I like Silly Putty.

[OldMan]

My two cents, take it for what it is....

The trade-off between CD and HuCard is basically speed vs space. Assuming the SFII graphics are really that large (Somewhere here I heard speculation that it's just the poor vram layout that caused that), it would most likely be faster to unpack them from ROM than load them from CD. So the level changes and possibly enemy changes would be faster from HuCard. But you could have 'prettier' and probably more graphics if it was on CD. Which would be "better" is just a matter of opinion.

As for how much room you -could- have on a HuCard, that's a lot like how much memory you can put in a computer. There is going to be a (albeit moving) limit at any point in time. Practically speaking, 16Mbits sounds about right to me, considering the time period and how much it cost to manufacture ROM/RAM during the late 80's/early 90's. You probably -could- have made a 256Mbit card, but who could have afforded it?

Speaking from a programmers point of view, it's really not that different writing a game for CD vs writing one for a HuCard. The thing is, SFII was originally an Arcade game: It was written with a given that it would be on ROM media. Which implies (at least to me) that it was easier to re-design a HuCard to allow it to run from ROM than it was to re-write it and make it work on CD. Especially since NEC was moving that direction anyway (ie, with the system 3.0 CD card.)

[Vecanti]

Thanks for all the responses guys.  I think most posts seem to confirm what I had thought.

I certainly believe in actual library of games that do exist, that graphically at least, there are some ACD/SCD that blow away any Hu-Cards and show what the system can really do.

Like I said I have seen some posts over the last few months that said, theoretically at least, that a HuCard game could do things a CD games couldn't.  Other than load speed of course, it was sounding like there was something special HuCards could do, but looks like that isn't the case necessarily.

[SuperPlay]

Quick query:

I know that the System card 3.0, Arcade Card Duo and the Arcade Card Pro were released in Retail packaging (Jewel CD case)

However were card versions 1.0, 2.0, 2.1 every released in retail packaging? As the ones I have seen for sale second hand have always been loose.

Thanks

[NecroPhile]

However were card versions 1.0, 2.0, 2.1 every released in retail packaging?

Reportedly, versions 2.0 and 2.1 did come in cases (clicky).

[awack]

Streetfighter 2 CE/Turbo has 12 fighters/levels, the SCD has 2Mb of memory, 2X12=24Mb, so it would seem that the SCD is good enough to handle Street fighter 2, the problem is that most of the memory in any fighting game is dedicated to the character sprites with their large number of frames, combined with the fact that there are two character sprites per level, means that instead of 12 fighter with 12 load times, its more like 12 fighter with 6 load times. Using the ADPCM 64Kb(half a Mb) to store graphics would help.

I've read a few times that it is not possible to for Arcade/Super CD games to be as good as a cartridge games.

Action games and shooters are what the Super CD should be good at, for example shooters(shmups) for the three major 16 systems range from 2 to 7 1/2 Mb and 2 to 14 or so Mb for side scrolling action games(no rpg elements)
Now take for example winds of thunder, a shooter, it could be in the range of 25Mb, for Rondo it could be in the 45Mb range, these numbers don't take into account things that are reloaded each load time or more than once through out the game. This doesn't mean that the Duo is the best machine for Shooters and action games because lots of memory doesn't take into account things like art work, the way colors are used, parallax and line scrolling, hardware scaling and rotation.

[SuperPlay]

However were card versions 1.0, 2.0, 2.1 every released in retail packaging?

Reportedly, versions 2.0 and 2.1 did come in cases (clicky).

I need to keep my eyes open for these :@)

[Fatality]

I also have a question

Does a Japanese Super System 3.0 card work on a US Turbo Grafx CD? Or will it only work with one of those HuCard converters? I'm pretty sure you need a converter just want to clarify.I was looking on ebay and the JPN Super System 3.0 cards are much much cheaper than the US ones. Thanks

[Turbo D]

Your assumption is correct; a hucard converter is required to run a jdm sys3.0 in a Turbo! And yes, muuch cheaper to go the jdm route. I did (prior to getting a duo, lol (even though I now have le~ubber Arcade Pro!!!)), it was ~$30 compared to a U.S. sys3.0 that runs around $100+ on eBay. I plan to go the modded Rx route in the future, though throwing a super sheedee romu romu onto the back of my supergrafx causing it to polymorph into transformer snalien decepticon would be bad-ass!?!

[Fatality]

Thanks Turbo D much appreciated.

[Liquid Snake]

I think Supergrafx can handle Street Fighter 2 Turbo ...................I think so.

[Tatsujin]

The normal PCE could handle Street Figher II' so it also could have handle the Turbo. Though, the SGX would have added nice parallaxes for the background, which were missing in the PCE version.

[rag-time4]

Quick query:

I know that the System card 3.0, Arcade Card Duo and the Arcade Card Pro were released in Retail packaging (Jewel CD case)

However were card versions 1.0, 2.0, 2.1 every released in retail packaging? As the ones I have seen for sale second hand have always been loose.

Thanks

I believe the reason you see so many of the 2.0 and 2.1 cards loose is that they were probably packed in with the IFU + CDROMROM boxed set. I have confirmed that there are two versions of the IFU + CDROMROM set, one released in 1988 with a white PCE shown on the manual, and another in 1989 with a Coregrafx I shown on the manual and SuperGrafx discussed inside.

I have read that the original PCE CDROMROM and IFU were sold seperately, though I have not verified this info. If this is indeed the case, one of these included the system 1.0 card.

[Tatsujin]

I believe the reason you see so many of the 2.0 and 2.1 cards loose is that they were probably packed in with the IFU + CDROMROM boxed set.

This is not just probably, this is a fact

[Mathius]

Streetfighter 2 CE/Turbo has 12 fighters/levels, the SCD has 2Mb of memory, 2X12=24Mb, so it would seem that the SCD is good enough to handle Street fighter 2, the problem is that most of the memory in any fighting game is dedicated to the character sprites with their large number of frames, combined with the fact that there are two character sprites per level, means that instead of 12 fighter with 12 load times, its more like 12 fighter with 6 load times. Using the ADPCM 64Kb(half a Mb) to store graphics would help.

I've read a few times that it is not possible to for Arcade/Super CD games to be as good as a cartridge games.

Action games and shooters are what the Super CD should be good at, for example shooters(shmups) for the three major 16 systems range from 2 to 7 1/2 Mb and 2 to 14 or so Mb for side scrolling action games(no rpg elements)
Now take for example winds of thunder, a shooter, it could be in the range of 25Mb, for Rondo it could be in the 45Mb range, these numbers don't take into account things that are reloaded each load time or more than once through out the game. This doesn't mean that the Duo is the best machine for Shooters and action games because lots of memory doesn't take into account things like art work, the way colors are used, parallax and line scrolling, hardware scaling and rotation.

I thought the Turbo/PC Engine/CD-ROM2/Super CD-ROM2/Arcade Card etc. couldn't handle scaling and rotation like the Neo Geo, Super NES, or Sega CD could. I've seen the Turbo try it in games like the start-up and menus in Gate of Thunder. Did the ACD allow for Mode 7 like effects?

[Tatsujin]

No ACD didn't allow any extra tricks, since it basically was/is only a RAM-Booster.

What you see as rotations are either animations or other tricks doing this. hell, even the C64 could do amazing plane-rotations, if you knew how to do it.

The scaling in Art of Fighting is a simple trick of changing between the different types of resolutions the PCE supports. Doing it fast, it seems that it zoomes in and out, like scaling the whole screen.

[Mathius]

No ACD didn't allow any extra tricks, since it basically was/is only a RAM-Booster.

What you see as rotations are either animations or other tricks doing this. hell, even the C64 could do amazing plane-rotations, if you knew how to do it.

The scaling in Art of Fighting is a simple trick of changing between the different types of resolutions the PCE supports. Doing it fast, it seems that it zoomes in and out, like scaling the whole screen.

Wow, it probably would of fooled me.

[Tatsujin]

Right, one of the PCEs best ability is to fool the users when it comes to show of some neaty tricks.

[awack]

Tatsujin already answered. I was talking about NEC, Sega and Nintendo.

One thing that should be pointed out when it comes to scaling and rotaion, is that when it comes to 2D perspective games, individually drawn sprites that are loaded into memory can be more effective than hardware scaling/rotation,
so long as you have enough memory to hold allot of individual sprites/tiles. Take for example much of the crap that came out for the SNES, basically it looks like cardboard that was cut to shape by Stephen Hawking, with each sprite/tile drawn by hand you have much more control over each sprite as it changes perspective or scales, such as detail, color, light source, etc...giving it a bit more of an organic look, just look at the Egyptian boss in Sapphire.

3D perspective games like F-Zero are a different matter.

[Mathius]

Tatsujin already answered. I was talking about NEC, Sega and Nintendo.

One thing that should be pointed out when it comes to scaling and rotaion, is that when it comes to 2D perspective games, individually drawn sprites that are loaded into memory can be more effective than hardware scaling/rotation,
so long as you have enough memory to hold allot of individual sprites/tiles. Take for example much of the crap that came out for the SNES, basically it looks like cardboard that was cut to shape by Stephen Hawking, with each sprite/tile drawn by hand you have much more control over each sprite as it changes perspective or scales, such as detail, color, light source, etc...giving it a bit more of an organic look, just look at the Egyptian boss in Sapphire.

3D perspective games like F-Zero are a different matter.

I would like to see Sapphirre with me own eyes some day. I am in the process of maybe getting an ACD from another forum member, so maybe I will find out soon.

[Vecanti]

Tatsujin already answered. I was talking about NEC, Sega and Nintendo.

One thing that should be pointed out when it comes to scaling and rotaion, is that when it comes to 2D perspective games, individually drawn sprites that are loaded into memory can be more effective than hardware scaling/rotation,

Is this the old joke about Hardware(Snes) vs Software scaling?
/bonkn.jpg

[henrycsc]

If anyone has a boxed original CD RomRom that Rag and Tats are referring to and would be willing to contribute a pic of it for my PCE-volution tree I've been working on, please PM me.  Thanks!

This version seems to come up less frequently that a boxed Super CD RomRom or Boxed LT  does anybody have statistics on unit sales for the different configurations?

I believe the reason you see so many of the 2.0 and 2.1 cards loose is that they were probably packed in with the IFU + CDROMROM boxed set.

This is not just probably, this is a fact

[rag-time4]

If anyone has a boxed original CD RomRom that Rag and Tats are referring to and would be willing to contribute a pic of it for my PCE-volution tree I've been working on, please PM me.  Thanks!

This version seems to come up less frequently that a boxed Super CD RomRom or Boxed LT  does anybody have statistics on unit sales for the different configurations?

I believe the reason you see so many of the 2.0 and 2.1 cards loose is that they were probably packed in with the IFU + CDROMROM boxed set.

This is not just probably, this is a fact

I have a pic to contribute!! Obtained from the greatest of all ebay sellers!

[NecroPhile]

How big is the BIOS on an Arcade Card Pro?  The ROM I use with Magic Engine is 256KB (2Mb); if the real BIOS is the same size, then it equals the size of Street Fighter II'. 

It doesn't really matter, as it's a mix of RAM and ROM and just a number anyway, but it's interesting nonetheless.  And yes, I'm easily entertained; especially by shiny things.

[henrycsc]

Thanks Rag... That CD Rom2 is a toughie to find boxed!

[shubibiman]

basically it looks like cardboard that was cut to shape by Stephen Hawking

[Joe Redifer]

Damn, you had the buy the interface unit and the CD-ROM separately?

Also, isn't everything pre-version 3.0 just using 64k of RAM and not 128k?  System 3.0 seems like a giant leap over the earlier games that used 2.0.  Maybe the extra 64K being counted in this equation is from the dedicated ADPCM chip RAM?  I know Monster Lair used that as program RAM, damned if I can tell, though... it still seems simple even by System 2.0 standards.

[ApolloBoy]

Damn, you had the buy the interface unit and the CD-ROM separately?

Early on you had to, but I think NEC bundled them together later on. The 101 PC Engine Secrets page said this about it:

Secret 41:
The first CD ROM add-on for the PC Engine was sold in two boxes: the CD-ROM drive itself, and the interface unit that connected it to the PC Engine system. This helped keep the cost of the system down, as 'audio devices' (the CD-ROM) were taxed, but the interface unit was not.