2011 Turbo Homebrew Discussion (Was: CCAG 2011 Footage)

[ParanoiaDragon]

As far as the casing goes, I'd be cool with it being not unlike the cardboard NGPC cases, as long as the size of the case would be the same size as a cd/hucard case.  Also kind of like what alot of companies do with music cd's, I forget what they're called, but, I actually like the cardboard ones better the regular cd cases myself.

[touko]

Well the thing is, because the game scrolls both directions, sprites are tracked even off screen, as this makes it easier to do the parallax, but even so, this demo shows some problems I will have to deal with.

Condensing the building tops will help...but then comes the fact you could have:

hero + 5 hero shots + 5ish enemies/humanoids and their shots.... that alone is pushing/breaking the line limit... not counting the building tops + coral....

and then comes the radar, and making sure that is accurate ...  thank god for Pyramid Plunder.

Its going to require some hoojoo voodoo

Na, you can use 3 scroll functions (or screen ruptures with hsync), 1 for main background, second and third for your parallaxes ..
You are completing with sprites for depth ..
It's more easy (and less cpu too) than sprites only, for multidirectional scrollings .

Or you can using sprites parallax for third,and second are tiles and some sprites (4) for depth .

Yes you probably can't remove all sprites problems in your entire game, but if you don't reduce the risk at start, it will be much harder later..

And i think that this defender demo was make speedly to show something at CCAG ..

I have though that, only because there are sprites problems, not for his quality ..

[SignOfZeta]

As far as the casing goes, I'd be cool with it being not unlike the cardboard NGPC cases, as long as the size of the case would be the same size as a cd/hucard case.  Also kind of like what alot of companies do with music cd's, I forget what they're called, but, I actually like the cardboard ones better the regular cd cases myself.

Cardboard? God no. There has to be some easy way to adapt a standard jewel case.

There is nothing so depressing as a system that had killer plastic cases for the games for years only to have to switched to cardboard in the later years. This one being...really late in years.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Na, you can use 3 scroll functions (or screen ruptures with hsync), 1 for main background, second and third for your parallaxes ..

I am already.  Its simple line scrolling with sprites making more depth.  The most basic of parallax.  It's all visual trickery.

You are completing with sprites for depth ..
It's more easy (and less cpu too) than sprites only, for multidirectional scrollings .

??

Or you can using sprites parallax for third,and second are tiles and some sprites (4) for depth .

Again, that is what I am doing.  The coral and the rooftops are sprites.  It is the dead moon effect.  There is no other real great way to do the effect. 
 

Yes you probably can't remove all sprites problems in your entire game, but if you don't reduce the risk at start, it will be much harder later..

I know... thats why I said I am working on it, lol.   This is basically Atlantean .0001.  I have ideas for how to fix all of the issues without sacrificing the visuals.  The problems only arise on the second row from the bottom of the screen because of the fact you can fly down there, and so can enemies, so it can become very crowded.  The problem wouldn't be as intense if sprites didn't need tracked in both directions.

The catch to games like Dead Moon is that it scrolls one way, at a fixed speed.  You know exactly when and where sprites need to pop out. No guessing, no going the other way, no sliding sprites back on screen that just went away a pixel ago.   But , I have ideas and plans. 



As for the jewel cases, I am fairly certain I know exactly what to do for that.  Ill skimp on the details until we get there, and if it works out, I will definitely spill the beans.

This HuCard thing will be a result of my original C= scene background (hey! lets modify everything ever! Get the solder!) and my gaming background.  I hope it works out.  We need HuCards.

[touko]

You are completing with sprites for depth ..
It's more easy (and less cpu too) than sprites only, for multidirectional scrollings .

??

How to insert local pictures  ??? 

[Arkhan Asylum]

I just don't understand what you said there lol

Do you mean using background scrolling is easier/faster than using sprites for all of it?

If so, everything you see except the coral and domes are already background scrolling 

[spenoza]

Is there a way to track the sprites without actually having them be sprites unless they are on-screen? As in, they cease to be sprites off-screen, but rather become simply tracked variables, and when it's time to be back on-screen they are recreated as new sprites?

[jlued686]

Mark me down as +1 for a HuCard purchase at $50 or even higher. Having a new TurboChip in 2011 would be bad-freaking-ass!

[touko]

I just don't understand what you said there lol

Lol, i want to insert pictures to illustrate my propos for parallaxes ..
But pictures on my HD, not on the web ..

Do you mean using background scrolling is easier/faster than using sprites for all of it?

If so, everything you see except the coral and domes are already background scrolling  

nothing except corals in background are composed of sprites ???

Ok i see, if you want easily resolving you sprites problems, your domes (for background between) must be a background part, and your main background (dark corals) should not fall as low ..

[CrackTiger]

hero + 5 hero shots + 5ish enemies/humanoids and their shots.... that alone is pushing/breaking the line limit... not counting the building tops + coral....

Don't 16-bit console shooters usually flicker the bullets, so that only half or less are visible per frame?

[Arkhan Asylum]

Is there a way to track the sprites without actually having them be sprites unless they are on-screen? As in, they cease to be sprites off-screen, but rather become simply tracked variables, and when it's time to be back on-screen they are recreated as new sprites?

Yeah, that is the route I plan to go first and see how it works.  It was in-the-works before the show, but tracking all those dome tops and checking for if its time to be drawn without them popping up funky or looking wonky, is a bit tricky.  There isnt any room for error or "close enough" since its a visual effect.  I believe that it is definitely doable though. 

I haven't experimented yet, but its seeming like if you have sprites set and are actively updating them in the sprite table, they contribute to the line limit even if they are off of the viewable screen (but still in the "screen").  Which kinda blows, but also makes sense.

nothing except corals in background are composed of sprites ???

The rainbow coral towers and the rooftops of the buildings are sprites.

Ok i see, if you want easily resolving you sprites problems, your domes (for background between) must be a background part, and your main background (dark corals) should not fall as low ..

Yeah, but then the deadmoon effect is killed.

Easy resolution isn't going to be the answer.  Easy resolution will result in the visual effect looking less nice.

It will involve some planning.  Careful planning.

Like I said, I have ideas.   A few of them that should help!

[touko]

Yeah, but then the deadmoon effect is killed.

Why ??, only a very little part is removed, 1 line of 2 tiles high max, perhaps one is sufficient..

[Arkhan Asylum]

if you remove the sprite rooftops from the back row you lose an entire layer of depth between the buildings and the tall rainbow coral. 

[TurboXray]

I haven't experimented yet, but its seeming like if you have sprites set and are actively updating them in the sprite table, they contribute to the line limit even if they are off of the viewable screen (but still in the "screen").  Which kinda blows, but also makes sense.

Yup. The whole X position in the SAT registers are parsed every line. It's the Y value to determine if the sprite cell pixel data will be fetched for that line or not, not X. So off screen sprites in that Y range clog up your sprite scanline buffer limit. Surprisingly, it's not the only home console like that.

 BTW, great looking underwater shmup demo.

[touko]

yes this demo is very cute .

if you remove the sprite rooftops from the back row you lose an entire layer of depth between the buildings and the tall rainbow coral.  

Yes you must play with sprites priority in an hsync for rainbow coral ...
Not very complicated.

But good multiple parallaxes are not easy without some pains  

[Arkhan Asylum]

That was already part of the plan, and what I've done so far has fixed the problem. 

There used to be 20 on that line alone.  Oops, lol.  I think this will fix it all up and doesn't sacrifice visuals, AND gives more sprite use,so, yay.

[touko]

Oops, lol.  I think this will fix it all up and doesn't sacrifice visuals, AND gives more sprite use,so, yay.

Aaaah sprites multiplexing !!!

[spenoza]

Feel free to make awesome movies when you have improvements worth showing off. I think those of us who are Defender fans (even if we suck at the game) will be waiting with bated breath.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Yeah, im restructuring pieces of the code, and cleaning a few things up.  I dont want to start spewing enemies out before the basic stuff is top notch'd

[Arkhan Asylum]

Interviews.

Witness me sucking at talking...

FUCK YEAH.

[roflmao]

Good stuff.  Congrats, Arkhan!

For fun times, turn the "Transcribe Audio" CC on for the first link (wasn't available for the second one).  I lol'ed.

[OldRover]

Hey Ark, you weren't that bad on camera, it was pretty damn cool actually.

[nat]

Yeah, the other guy in the first video looks a lot more uncomfortable than you do.

[OldRover]

No doubt.

[spenoza]

Arkhan, this plan you have to make your own cards. Will you be including some kind of switching (physical or electronic) so that the chips can be used in both US and JPN systems?

[OldMan]

Will you be including some kind of switching (physical or electronic) so that the chips can be used in both US and JPN systems?

Not at first. Though we do have tools to bit-flip the images, so you could order either a us or a jp vesion of the games

[Arkhan Asylum]

yeah since the actual rom burning is going to occur in house, you can just specify what machine you are wanting.

If this shit takes off to where its popular, adding a switch isn't really rocket science.  It will complicate the board some, and add a gaudy looking switch... but its not like its not doable

[spenoza]

It doesn't even have to be a manual switch. If there is a small, cost effective digital switching chip that can store its last state, that might be an appropriate way to go.

[OldMan]

If there is a small, cost effective digital switching chip that can store its last state...

Well, someone else here is working on a region mod with such a chip, except for storing the state (which would presumably involve a battery for backup power).

Personally, I'd go with a jumper for selection (On = JP, Off = US),  but the card is gonna be expensive enough as it is. No need to add another $5 to the price tag.

[Arkhan Asylum]

yeah 5$ for a jumper  you can fiddle around seems sort of moot since I see it this way:

most serious PCE people have a PCE and will get a PCE version of the card.
people with TG16s will get the TG16 version and realize they want Japanese games and mod their system in a panic.

[Nazi NecroPhile]

I can't imagine anyone hardcore enough to shell out $50 for a homebrew cart that doesn't already have at least one console from each region and/or a region mod.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Yeah .. and anyone who is throwing 50$ up for a card can clearly afford a region mod if needed.

but, burning the ROM for whichever region you want isn't a problem lol

[Nazi NecroPhile]

but, burning the ROM for whichever region you want isn't a problem lol

Oh no, certainly not.  I didn't mean to imply that you shouldn't do both regions.

[spenoza]

Are you doing with straight EPROMs or some kind of flash memory solution? How much time will you have to invest for each cart, do you think?

Will you be selling a ROM to folks who have flash carts?

[Arkhan Asylum]

but, burning the ROM for whichever region you want isn't a problem lol

Oh no, certainly not.  I didn't mean to imply that you shouldn't do both regions.

oh, I know   I just mean theres not a huge point in doing both on ONE card

Are you doing with straight EPROMs or some kind of flash memory solution? How much time will you have to invest for each cart, do you think?

Will you be selling a ROM to folks who have flash carts?

These are going to be as close to the real deal as possible.  AKA: you buy it and go OMG YES. and shove it in system of choice and play it.  We burn them in house, install the ROM, apply labels, shove in jewel case, and mail it.  Selling chips by themselves is all C= Community style.  fuck that. 

Depending on how michael J fox myself and friends are while trying to solder the stuff on, I don't see it taking more than an hour per board.  It should take less.  It should also get faster as we get into the groove of soldering the stuff. 

SMT ROMs are going to be a pain in the dick, but worth it.

[spenoza]

Hey, got any new footage for us?

[Arkhan Asylum]

no lol.  I told you I was taking a post CCAG break for a bit.

I was hopin they were doin a CCAG 2011.5, but I guess not.

[spenoza]

no lol.  I told you I was taking a post CCAG break for a bit.

I was hopin they were doin a CCAG 2011.5, but I guess not.

Do you think there would have been enough interest for another CCAG this year?

[Arkhan Asylum]

The CCAG this year was actually less crowded than usual.  i was kind of surprised.

[spenoza]

Well, people are financially getting worn down a bit, and console gaming can be quite an expense at times. So traffic was down and that caused you to think we needed another? I would say we would need another only if traffic was way up.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Well, they did a half year one a few times before (like the one where insanity was released).

The octobery-times see a lot of sales, because its 2 months from christmas.

and because the building is nice and warm, lol

[spenoza]

Well, they did a half year one a few times before (like the one where insanity was released).

The octobery-times see a lot of sales, because its 2 months from christmas.

and because the building is nice and warm, lol

I hadn't considered that. That might make a difference, but it seems it's not in the cards this year.

[Arkhan Asylum]

It wasn't last year either because the con-runner was buying a house.



I wish he'd do it.  The fall one always brings more epic.  Its also less of a neckbeard mouthbreather sweatfest.

[spenoza]

Why does it take him to organize the con? Couldn't someone else step up and then he could participate without having to organize?

[Arkhan Asylum]

its kind of a lot of work to rent out a place, organize tables/crap, and everything else involved to get it going , lol.  I know I wouldnt want to do all that shit