New Duo Owner: Drop Your Knowledge On Me!

[machomadness]

As the topic states, I got my hands on a Turbo Duo after years of searching.

As it's a HUGE investment, I want to make sure I have the best knowledge to care for my Duo. What should I know as a new Duo owner? I need any advice I can get, but I need to know a few major things:

-It's working great right now, but I've heard about problems with the capacitors and laser. Does anyone here do refurbishing services(cap replacement, laser check or replacement, and general clean-up) and if so, when should I get it done(what are the signs that should tell me it's time to get it done), who should I get it done from, and how much will it set me back?

-Also, since I plan on playing CD-R's, what brands are best, what program should I use, and what speed should they be burned at?

-Finally, I plan on using the Neo PC-E 128M Flash Cart. Has anyone here ever used one and what should I know about THAT?

Sorry for the laundry list, but I just need all the knowledge I can get....

[hoobs88]

BlueBMW, Red Ghost, Duo-R and a few other members do cap replacement. It doesn't really need to be done until your audio starts to fail.

[OldRover]

A lot of people here do Duo repairs. BlueBMW does, I think chop5 does, and I believe nat still does too but I don't know. There might be others; I'm out of the loop on this.

CDRs are the Duo's worst nightmare unless you have the laser replacement (and even then, it's not a guarantee). Some Duos won't recognize them even if you use the highest quality CDRs burned at 1X. I personally use MAM-A gold archival CDRs burned as slow as possible. These will set you back a couple of bucks each. Arkhan has stated that he uses some special silver discs that are much cheaper, but you again have to burn them at a very low speed.

I dunno about the flash carts... some people have them, but all I really hear around these parts is about how much they suck.

[DragonmasterDan]

CDRs are the Duo's worst nightmare unless you have the laser replacement (and even then, it's not a guarantee). Some Duos won't recognize them even if you use the highest quality CDRs burned at 1X. I personally use MAM-A gold archival CDRs burned as slow as possible. These will set you back a couple of bucks each. Arkhan has stated that he uses some special silver discs that are much cheaper, but you again have to burn them at a very low speed.

CDRs can cause a variety of problems, they may play well for a while but since the dyes in CDRs aren't as reflective as glass mastered media, it can cause more wear and tear on the lens and laser and ultimately lead to a greatly sped up failure. be forewarned it's not recommended to do extensively if you aren't interested in frequently repairing your system.

[jlued686]

I'd also recommend against CDRs. I used a burned disc for one day and it blew out my laser. Had to replace it, which was the first sort of console repair I've ever done on my own. Fortunately, it wasn't too difficult, but it took me ages to get around to doing it. Luckily, I've got two Turbo Duos.

[SignOfZeta]

Spending mad cash on a US Duo and then pirating everything just...makes no sense to me. CDRs and flash cards are often unreliable enough to drive a person FUCKING INSANE. Personally, I'd rather have 10 good legit games than the entire library pirated.

BTW, some people say CDRs wreck lasers. This is just bullshit. I'm sad your laser died, jlued686, but it wasn't the CDR. Your Duo just died.

I'm also sad that some Toyota/Audi drivers ran over their kids, but there is no such thing as "sudden acceleration". Some people just can't drive.

[chany60126]

Zeta is right, you should buy a small number of games. Why mess with hardware that is finicky and expensive to replace. There are so many quality, inexpensive CD games that you can get on your Duo, especially on the PC Engine. Depending on what genres you prefer, we can always give you recommendations.

[machomadness]

I DO plan on buying games, but for now. With my tenant wrecking the apartment to the tune of $4,000 or more in damages, it may be a while before I build up a significant library....

[SignOfZeta]

You don't need a "library" to have fun.

[jlued686]

BTW, some people say CDRs wreck lasers. This is just bullshit. I'm sad your laser died, jlued686, but it wasn't the CDR. Your Duo just died.

I'm also sad that some Toyota/Audi drivers ran over their kids, but there is no such thing as "sudden acceleration". Some people just can't drive.

So there's no truth to what DragonmasterDan posted? It was one hell of a coincidence, then. The Duo was practically brand new (I had ordered a boxed one off of TZD when they still had 'em) and the laser made some fucked up noises when I put in the CDR. After that: kaput.

And regarding the Toyota/Audi part...that's...uh...a fascinating non sequitur.

[DragonmasterDan]

So there's no truth to what DragonmasterDan posted? It was one hell of a coincidence, then. The Duo was practically brand new (I had ordered a boxed one off of TZD when they still had 'em) and the laser made some fucked up noises when I put in the CDR. After that: kaput.

There's definitely truth to it.

Admittedly if you have a perfect working system (brand new caps, perfect working laser) using high quality 74 minute (not 80) CDRs, burned at very low speeds can decrease your problems with CDRs but not entirely wipe them out. A CDR is comprised of dye sitting underneath the disc, it's not as reflective as a glass mastered CD and it requires more work for the laser to read it, being a moving part it increases the chance of mechanical failure as if the laser is straining to read it.

A badly scratched or scuffed glass mastered disc can cause the same problem mind you, but it's best whenever possible to avoid CDRs if you're trying to get a lot of life out of your hardware. Avoiding them entirely is preferable for the reasons stated above.

[blueraven]

42

[BigusSchmuck]

I guess people forget that some of these systems are near 20 years old (when is the last time you heard a cd walkman let alone a cd player last that long) and will fail eventually regardless what you may do. I have had one duo since 94 and it just stop reading discs on me just a month ago and I use cdrs quite frequently (do you really want to pay $150 dollars for a game like Bonk 3 CD or Dracula X?). Yet, when I traded in my Japanese Saturn for my second duo (got a good deal too, 2 controllers, 3 in one gates of thunder) it died on me in less than a week. So in short, I for one recommend getting the caps replaced and the cd drive replaced. I got mine done from a guy on Ebay for $60 bucks. Working on getting a Duo-RX for around $200 (hopefully) just so I can do arcade card games (kisado is way too expensive for my tastes).

[jlued686]

Of course they'll fail eventually. That's not really the point. The question at hand is does using CDRs and using a burn speed that is too fast help fascilitate the laser/drive failure?

[jperryss]

To the OP: ImgBurn is lightweight, free, and works great for burns. I used Taiyo Yudens, can't remember which line, but the weren't insanely expensive. I want to say under $30 for a spindle of 100, but I can't remember as it was a long time ago. Zero issues, but I don't know how important I really feel that disc type is.

Spending mad cash on a US Duo and then pirating everything just...makes no sense to me. CDRs and flash cards are often unreliable enough to drive a person FUCKING INSANE. Personally, I'd rather have 10 good legit games than the entire library pirated.

I own about 80 hueys (US and JP) and a dozen CD games, and a handful of burns. I see both sides. If obtaining that game through legit means would set you back the cost of another Duo-R, it makes a little sense.

There's definitely truth to it.

Admittedly if you have a perfect working system (brand new caps, perfect working laser) using high quality 74 minute (not 80) CDRs, burned at very low speeds can decrease your problems with CDRs but not entirely wipe them out. A CDR is comprised of dye sitting underneath the disc, it's not as reflective as a glass mastered CD and it requires more work for the laser to read it, being a moving part it increases the chance of mechanical failure as if the laser is straining to read it.

A badly scratched or scuffed glass mastered disc can cause the same problem mind you, but it's best whenever possible to avoid CDRs if you're trying to get a lot of life out of your hardware. Avoiding them entirely is preferable for the reasons stated above.

I see this explanation come up all the time here, but until someone confirms that the laser is actually programmed to start working harder if it can't read a disc right away, I call BS on this theory. I say the same for burn speed; If the drive can read it with no issues or lag, then it doesn't matter. Try finding a modern, reliable drive AND media that can even burn at 1X nowadays.

I do find it a LITTLE more believable that using 80-minute discs could cause issues, if the laser is forced to move out farther than it was designed to and getting stuck as a result, but even so...why would the laser have to move our farther if the same amount of content is on the disc? It's not like the image being burned to disc is bigger because it's being burned to a CD with more capacity. The disc itself is still the same physical size and I'd almost guarantee that if you look at a factory-manufactured disc that uses the entire 700MB or whatever on a CD, that data runs right to the outer edge of the disc. A newer 80-minute CD isn't 'bigger' than any other CD.

Sounds like hogwash to me.  

[machomadness]

I see everyone's view point. BTW, on the advice from a few people on other forums and a few of my friends, I got a 100 pack of Silver CD-R's(the ones that are used for music demos and such). I've heard great reviews of them but has anyone here ever used them?

[OldMan]

I see this explanation come up all the time here, but until someone confirms that the laser is actually programmed to start working harder if it can't read a disc right away, I call BS on this theory. I say the same for burn speed

It's not that the laser is programmed to 'work harder'.
The laser mechanism contains a small coil that moves the laser lens up and down to focus the beam.
IF you user CDR's , they reflect differently than mastered CD's. Hence, the laser has to focus and re-focus to get a good read. This causes the coil to heat up, potentially shortening its life.

As for burn speed....
Not only does the disc have to spin faster, the laser has to turn on and off to write to a disc. At faster speeds, the speed difference and the time to turn the laser off combine to makes the edges of the pits on the cd stretch. On older drives, this stretching can result in a pit being read incorrectly.

I do find it a LITTLE more believable that using 80-minute discs could cause issues, if the laser is forced to move out farther than it was designed to and getting stuck as a result, but even so...why would the laser have to move our farther if the same amount of content is on the disc?

Because part of what is encoded at the beginning of the cd (in an unwriteable area) is the last track / size. That's how burners know how much data a CD can hold.
This information is used when re-setting the laser from a bad read; no matter how much data is actually -on- the CD, the lens will move to the (physical) end of the disc. Which is too far out for early cd players.

The disc itself is still the same physical size and I'd almost guaranteethat if you look at a factory-manufactured disc that uses the entire 700MB or whatever on a CD, that data runs right to the outer edge of the disc. A newer 80-minute CD isn't 'bigger' than any other CD.

Wow you have good eyes! I've never, ever seen an actual cd track - so how do you know they are there?

No, an 80 min CDR isn't any 'bigger' than a regular CD. It uses tracks at the outside edge of the disc to hold the 'extra' information. BUT, originally, that area was subject to manufacturing defects, and was unuseable.
The original CD standard calls for 650 MB per cd. As manufacturing got better, we started seeing cd's that used the outer edge to expand the amount of data that could be stored, up to 700M.

And the Turbo cd player is one of the original models. So it doesn't like 700M discs.
...
For those of you who think this is BS, go ahead and think that.
I've seen the same kind of problems occur with an original SONY model CD player (The CDR-100, iirc).
And it played original cds just fine.

[tggodfrey]

DO NOT wait till you have problems to replace the capacitors.  Doing so or recommending someone do that is very bad advice.  Capacitor electrolytic fluid is corrosive to the copper traces on a PCB circuit board. 

My advice is do a routine cap replacement now and enjoy it for another 20 years or wait and potentially spend a lot of money repairing it.

[machomadness]

DO NOT wait till you have problems to replace the capacitors.  Doing so or recommending someone do that is very bad advice.  Capacitor electrolytic fluid is corrosive to the copper traces on a PCB circuit board. 

My advice is do a routine cap replacement now and enjoy it for another 20 years or wait and potentially spend a lot of money repairing it.

Who here can do that? I'm looking for one with a quick turnaround time(kind of like for my Xbox 360 when I sent it out) and quality work.

[BlueBMW]

I also advise against using CDRs.  My understanding of CDR technology is this.....  Data is written in single spiral shaped path from the center of the CD to the outside of the CD.  On a 650mb or 700mb CD the distance from the inner most point of this track and the outermost point is the same.  On a 700mb CD though, this data track is narrower and packed tighter together, thus making the total length of the data track longer and able to store more data.  For modern drives, reading this tighter packed data is no problem, but on these old drives it does cause trouble since they arent as fine tuned to focus on the smaller data tracks of newer larger capacity CDRs.  Additionally CDRs are more difficult to read due to their lower reflectivity.  As others have said, both these issues result in a laser that has to focus and refocus more often.  Frequent refocussing can and does wear out the coils and such on lasers.  Since the lasers in these units are already so old, it doesnt take long for them to fail under such conditions.

As far as capacitor changes go....  I believe that even though you may not have any symptoms of bad caps yet, get them changed anyways.  Having done cap changes, I can say its a lot easier to replace them on a system where there is only minimal leakage / damage versus one that has significant leakage and problems already.  Waiting until there are problems only increases the chances of other components becoming damaged, and it also makes it 10x hard for the guy doing the cap swap.

I do repair work, as does Chop5, thesteve and maybe Keith Courage.  Not sure if Nat, Red Ghost or D-Lite still take in work or not.   As far as quick turnaround....  yeah that would NOT be me hehe.    I'm a little slow on turning repairs around, but on the flip side I'm pretty cheap   I do it as a hobby / service.  I work full time and go to school so if you send it to me it'll take a while

[chany60126]

DO NOT wait till you have problems to replace the capacitors.  Doing so or recommending someone do that is very bad advice.  Capacitor electrolytic fluid is corrosive to the copper traces on a PCB circuit board. 

My advice is do a routine cap replacement now and enjoy it for another 20 years or wait and potentially spend a lot of money repairing it.

Who here can do that? I'm looking for one with a quick turnaround time(kind of like for my Xbox 360 when I sent it out) and quality work.

chop5 and BlueBMW are excellent at doing these kinds of repairs. They are probably backlogged with repairs, but they do excellent work.

[blueraven]

I'd offer but my workshop is in storage at the moment. Quick would not be part of the equation.

[machomadness]

As a quick turnaround, I mean like a week at most. Replacing caps is a lot more work than a reflow.

[BlueBMW]

I'd say my average turn around time on most repairs is about a month    Mostly because I can never say no to people AND I dont always know when I'll have a good chunk of time to work on something like a cap swap.  It takes me a good 4-5 hours to do a cap swap properly.

[machomadness]

See with me, I'd miss it for too long, ya know? BTW, anyone do region mods on these? I want to try and score an Arcade Card....

[SignOfZeta]

So there's no truth to what DragonmasterDan posted? It was one hell of a coincidence, then. The Duo was practically brand new (I had ordered a boxed one off of TZD when they still had 'em) and the laser made some fucked up noises when I put in the CDR. After that: kaput.

How did you get a "practically brand new" Duo? Do you have a time machine? The last Duos were Duo RXs from...what, 1994? Even if they just sit in the box for 17 years the caps will still go bad, the grease will still get thick, etc. Total lack of movement isn't a good thing for any machine.

And regarding the Toyota/Audi part...that's...uh...a fascinating non sequitur.

If you go through life assuming everything you don't instantly understand is a non sequitur you are doomed. Perhaps you lack the frame of reference.

"CDRs killed my Duo", that is a non sequitur. The two things are not related. "Audi killed my son" is also a non-relationship. NutraSweet does not cause blindness. The Earth is not supported on the back of a gigantic turtle.

The only plausible theory I've seen regarding CDRs killing lasers is one that several members here sort of codeveloped. If the media is *that* hard to read then the focusing mechanism will, in theory, see much more use. If the focusing mechanism (it moves the lens up and down) dies then the CDR theory certainly has some weight. As I understand it though that isn't what's happening. I have no first hand knowledge though since no NEC system has ever died on me (no matter how many CDRs I play).

To my knowledge there NO ability in these optical drives to actually increase wattage to the laser if reading is a problem. Its just on or off.

Another thing, regarding burn times: 1x is impossible on any burner made in the last decade (probably longer) so don't shoot for that. Lower speeds could, in theory, make a difference. If the burner is doing the same thing but doing it slower then that means (I think?) that the actual burn duration of each bit would take longer, and therefore possibly be more clear, and easier for PCEs to play. Sort of like shutter speed in a camera.

We need to make a comprehensive, user editable FAQ/Wiki for this, compiling various theories and experiences. How is this done these days?

[nat]

Not sure if Nat, Red Ghost or D-Lite still take in work or not.  

Can't speak for the others, but I do not.

[BigusSchmuck]

See with me, I'd miss it for too long, ya know? BTW, anyone do region mods on these? I want to try and score an Arcade Card....

That may be a better alternative than buying a Japanese system, that is if the price is right. From what I understand, duo-rs and duo-rxs don't have as many problems as the U.S. Duos and the original Japanese Duos have (plus they are newer by a few years) hence the reason why I am going that route. I'm wishing that I had bought a SuperGrafx when they had one up for sale at a Retro Gaming Expo in Portland, apparently they didn't know what they were selling ($200 boxed), but finding a working pc engine cd unit with a arcade card would end up costing me the price of 2 duos at least on ebay.

[DragonmasterDan]

Another thing, regarding burn times: 1x is impossible on any burner made in the last decade (probably longer) so don't shoot for that. Lower speeds could, in theory, make a difference. If the burner is doing the same thing but doing it slower then that means (I think?) that the actual burn duration of each bit would take longer, and therefore possibly be more clear, and easier for PCEs to play. Sort of like shutter speed in a camera.

They were hard to find a decade ago, but not impossible. I bought a new external CD-writer at least past 2002 (I know this based on when I moved) that could do 1X.

Lower speeds matter for this reason, at a lower burn speed the CD burner spends more time writing each individual sector on the disc to indicate a zero or a one. The way a CDR reads is that the laser heats up the dye on an individual spot on the disc. While the quality of the media and the burner certainly matter a lot, with a slower burn speed the individual zeros and ones are going to be darker with a greater contrast from the unburned material and thus easier to be read by the laser.

The only plausible theory I've seen regarding CDRs killing lasers is one that several members here sort of codeveloped. If the media is *that* hard to read then the focusing mechanism will, in theory, see much more use. If the focusing mechanism (it moves the lens up and down) dies then the CDR theory certainly has some weight. As I understand it though that isn't what's happening. I have no first hand knowledge though since no NEC system has ever died on me (no matter how many CDRs I play).

To my knowledge there NO ability in these optical drives to actually increase wattage to the laser if reading is a problem. Its just on or off.

I don't think it has anything to do with wattage, you can actually hear the laser strain to focus and re-focus while the loading time increases or redbook audio doesn't kick in as the laser is trying to read a scratched CD or difficult to read spots on a CDR.

[BigusSchmuck]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/iomega-External-CD-RW-Drive-4x-record-4x-re-write-6x-read-CD-/250909989977?pt=PCC_Drives_Storage_Internal&hash=item3a6b669c59
I have used these in the past, seems to work pretty good for low speeds.
As for media, found these on newegg:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817130023

[jlued686]

So there's no truth to what DragonmasterDan posted? It was one hell of a coincidence, then. The Duo was practically brand new (I had ordered a boxed one off of TZD when they still had 'em) and the laser made some fucked up noises when I put in the CDR. After that: kaput.

How did you get a "practically brand new" Duo? Do you have a time machine? The last Duos were Duo RXs from...what, 1994? Even if they just sit in the box for 17 years the caps will still go bad, the grease will still get thick, etc. Total lack of movement isn't a good thing for any machine.

And regarding the Toyota/Audi part...that's...uh...a fascinating non sequitur.

If you go through life assuming everything you don't instantly understand is a non sequitur you are doomed. Perhaps you lack the frame of reference.

"CDRs killed my Duo", that is a non sequitur. The two things are not related. "Audi killed my son" is also a non-relationship. NutraSweet does not cause blindness. The Earth is not supported on the back of a gigantic turtle.

The only plausible theory I've seen regarding CDRs killing lasers is one that several members here sort of codeveloped. If the media is *that* hard to read then the focusing mechanism will, in theory, see much more use. If the focusing mechanism (it moves the lens up and down) dies then the CDR theory certainly has some weight. As I understand it though that isn't what's happening. I have no first hand knowledge though since no NEC system has ever died on me (no matter how many CDRs I play).

To my knowledge there NO ability in these optical drives to actually increase wattage to the laser if reading is a problem. Its just on or off.

Another thing, regarding burn times: 1x is impossible on any burner made in the last decade (probably longer) so don't shoot for that. Lower speeds could, in theory, make a difference. If the burner is doing the same thing but doing it slower then that means (I think?) that the actual burn duration of each bit would take longer, and therefore possibly be more clear, and easier for PCEs to play. Sort of like shutter speed in a camera.

We need to make a comprehensive, user editable FAQ/Wiki for this, compiling various theories and experiences. How is this done these days?

You're always so feisty! ;)

My Duo crapping out on me happened in 1999/2000, hence me saying it was "practically" new. Furthermore, I did mention that I bought it from TZD when they were selling new/boxed Duos, which was quite some time ago.

Anyway, and yes I know what a non sequitur is. And as much as I don't want to feed meaningless forum back-and-forth, I was simply implying that your Toyota/Audi comment was a bit of a stretch as I didn't see how one had to do with the other. Can we just leave it at that as it has nothing to do with the topic at hand?

I admit to being completely clueless about the CDR/Laser situation, and since it seems there's a quite a bit of differing opinion, I'm simply looking to clear things up. I've been afraid to play CDRs on either of my DUOs since the "incident", and I'm just wondering if my fear is well founded.

[machomadness]

Know what someone should do:

Take a laser reading from a Duo and then use CD-R's. Measure the laser resistance after say each ten uses. If it drops, we know it's true.....

[A_Locomotive]

Glad I read this thread. I'd never heard about the possibility of CD-Rs damaging the lasers. I'm hoping I'll be soon getting a CD unit in some form(hoping for a Duo-R) and was planning on burning some of the games that were well out of reach.

[BigT]

I consider it to be a small miracle that there are duos with original lasers that are still working.

I wonder what the MTBF these drives were rated for?  I doubt that anyone any NEC designed them to last more than 5 years!

Over the past decade, I've noticed that PC CD/DVD drives tend to fail on average in about 3-4 years of moderate usage  (of course, there are some outliers).  Since these have been such cheap commodity items for so long, I don't even bother to troubleshoot or fix them...

[PunkCryborg]

theres plenty of awesome games that are affordable to anyone that has cash to spend on the initial purchase. collecting pce games is way cool and look better on you shelf than all other consoles so might as well scrap you old games and buy pce games. Plus hu cards are super cool and a flash cart just wont be the same

[termis]

I've read a number of different experiences with CDRs from various folks here, so that's basically it - your experience may vary.  

I've had a total of three different CD systems.  A Turbo Duo, a PCE Duo, and a SCD-ROM2 (well, and a TG16 CD, but never tried a CDR on that).

The SCD-ROM2 machine, that just didn't like CDRs at all.  It'd make some crazy gear-crunching noises trying to read CDRs, so I never bothered using CDRs with that machine.

The two Duos, I burn using the shittiest generic disc at the fastest speed, and it works/ed fine.  There are/were *rare* instances when the machine take slightly longer to load some sessions, and may even need a light tap to get it going again, but again, this is rare.  

And what if a laser eye does wear out prematurely because of CDR usage?  I'm not that concerned - it's a replaceable part and I have a spare as well.  By the time I go through this current one, and the spare as well, it might be a good 20-30 years from now.

[RR1980]

my feeling abourt cd-r is this: if you know that there's the most remote chance that cd-r would cause some level of harm to your precious duo/r/rx/IFU why would you still use it!?

[nat]

My feelings about CD-Rs is this: Speculative effects on lasers aside, if you're going to spend the money to buy a Duo, why the fuck wouldn't you take the time and money to pick up actual games for it? By buying the system in the first place, it seems that you're essentially saying you're "serious" about the console, but downloading ISOs and burning them instead of buying essentially says the opposite. If you're indeed not serious about the console, why bother buying one to begin with? Why not just stick to the Wii Virtual Console or some form of computer emulation?

I don't buy the "some games are out reach" argument, either. You bought the console, didn't you? There are precious few games that can't be had for the same price as a console, or less. Akiyama Jin, Darius Alpha (not a CD), those Kids Station discs, that's all that really comes to mind. Even the most expensive U.S. games can be picked up in the same ballpark price range as a Duo if you're diligent, and if you're one of those impatient types (which you probably are if you're burning CD-Rs to begin with), you can always pick up the Japanese counterpart for cheap. Yeah, the "some games are out of reach" argument seems more like an excuse to me than anything.

In my opinion, there's really only one good reason to be dealing with CD-Rs at all and that's for some of these independent translations.

[Tatsujin]

WORD!

Plainspoken, nat!

[jlued686]

If I were to ever use CDRs again - and that's very unlikely - it would be to play translations like Ys 4 on my Duo, since I'd much rather play on the Duo than on a PC through Magic Engine or what-have-you.

However, having a burned copy of a game like Might & Magic 3 would be nice, since finding an actual US copy for a price I can afford seems like it's never going to happen. It'd be nice to be able to at least play that one in the meantime while I finish off my collection. As a Turbo collector, I'm certainly not one of those who'd just burn the games and call it good. I want the entire US collection someday.

[BigusSchmuck]

In my opinion, there's really only one good reason to be dealing with CD-Rs at all and that's for some of these independent translations.

Don't forget to show some love for those homebrewn games! They are burnt on CD-Rs too ya know. 

[Nazi NecroPhile]

Don't forget to show some love for those homebrewn games! They are burnt on CD-Rs too ya know. 

Unless you mean unfinished games, that's not entirely true.  Only Meteor Blaster DX was a CDR - Implode, Insanity, and the forthcoming Mysterious Song are pressed discs.

[nat]

Yeah, Meteor Blaster is the only independent release that came out on CD-R.

Even the Sapphire "reprint" is an actual pressed disc.

[SignOfZeta]

I mostly agree with Nat on this. I do actually consider a $300 game "out of reach" unless it's JAMMA or something really really special (ie: sure as hell not Bonk) but most PCE games are less than $20. Many really REALLY fucking good ones are less than $10 on a good day.

[roflmao]

Aside from that time I bought Spriggan new from an import shop when it was released, the most expensive game I've bought for the TG/PCE was $45 (and it was Spriggan again!).  The second most expensive game I've picked up in recent history (10+ years) was Parasol Stars for $25.  There are TONS of awesome games available for $20 or less.  Like SoZ said, many are available for under $10!  I've burned the occasional game to CD-R just to see if it's worth looking out for, but if I end up playing it for any reasonable amount of time, I just pick up a real copy.  The games that are out of my price range I don't worry about because there are more good cheap games to play than I have time to play them.

[nat]

I'd say if you're really just looking to try before you buy, just emulate. That way you don't have to mess with burning anything.

[BigusSchmuck]

I'd say if you're really just looking to try before you buy, just emulate. That way you don't have to mess with burning anything. 

Or just burn them and play them on a pce emulator for the Dreamcast! 

[DragonmasterDan]

I'd say if you're really just looking to try before you buy, just emulate. That way you don't have to mess with burning anything.

Or for translations. Ys 4 is the perfect example of why someone would want to and have a legitimate reason to play CDRs on their system, but put themselves at risk by doing so. If you value your hardware's lifespan the best bet is to run the CDR on an emulator.

[machomadness]

Well, there WAS a thread here a long time ago that I dug up on CD-R's. I followed the guy's advice and I picked up a Pioneer DVR-212D off of eBay(it's been since out of production) and installed it on my Windows 7 64-Bit machine. I used the SpinRite Silver CD-R's and burned them at 4x and lo and behold, THEY WORK! I mean DAMN well. The 4-in-1 Super CD that everyone seems to complain about loaded for me in about ten seconds with not much grinding on the laser. Every game I tried loads like an actual CD! It's the Pioneer burning at 4x combined with the Silver CD-R's dye. It's not that cheap shit you usually find at any RadioShack or Best Buy. These are the CD's used by independent artists when they make their demos or small print albums(if you're a rap fan, you'll be familiar with it as the CD's used for DJ Mix Tapes). My cousin is a musician and she gave me a spindle to try out. But for anyone looking to backup their CD's or play games they cannot get, try this combo!

It's not that expensive either. The Pioneer Drive can be found for $20-30, a SATA cable for $2, Mounting Screws for $1, and the SpinRite Silver CD-R's can be found in a 100 pack for $35. You WILL need an empty 100-pack spindle as the CD's just come shrinkwrapped with no spindle and protectors on the top and bottom. I use DVD's all the time for wrestling stuff, format transfers(I have Laserdisc, Beta, VHS, and CED), and films, so I had plenty of empty spindles.

Hope this helps!

[A_Locomotive]

Or for translations. Ys 4 is the perfect example of why someone would want to and have a legitimate reason to play CDRs on their system, but put themselves at risk by doing so. If you value your hardware's lifespan the best bet is to run the CDR on an emulator.

Are their any game pads that are particularly good for playing old games? Or does using just a keyboard work fine? I've never experimented with emulation before but I definitely want to give it a try sometime.