1up.com: Saving the System - TurboGrafx-16

[Arkhan Asylum]

Its not NTSC legit though.  It's "damn this game is running goony" legit.


Bonk's music sounds funny in PAL land.  I recall it being slowed down slightly, obviously, and it was pretty comical.  I think the slowdown works out to about 12%

[Senshi]

nevermind

[Arkhan Asylum]

Not much that hasn't been discussed here ad naseum, but this caught my eye:

... to lesser-known marvels like the multiplayer puzzle game Color Wars.

I wonder why this particular title caught the author's attention; it seemed pretty blah to me.

Easy.  He was like "hey lets play the hipster obscuro game name drop game!"

[OldRover]

nevermind

OK.

[Marll]

There were plenty of things that contributed to the downfall of the system, but I think these are the big ones:

Crap Marketing: I saw exactly 2 TV commercials for the Turbo during its height. And I was living in the Seattle area, not exactly a tiny market
Crap Box Art: Come on! When you placed Turbo boxes next to Genesis they looked downright retarded. I think box art alone drove plenty of people to the Genesis when given the choice.
Crap Pack In: Take this with a grain of salt. I really like KC, I really do. BUT as a packin to show off the system, not the best. Probably should have been KC and 1 other game. Maybe Blazing Lazers, and certainly Bonk later.

Even at 12 or so I knew these things were fucked up and probably could have ran their marketing division in the US better than they did. They should have translated and brought over way more Japanese games, especially RPGs. That's what I wanted more than anything else at the time, and while we did have some good ones, there just weren't enough. They also should should have quit fucking with the Japanese box/cover art, replace the Japanese text with English and leave well enough alone. There have been plenty of threads about this topic, so I'll leave it at that.

[DragonmasterDan]

Crap Pack In: Take this with a grain of salt. I really like KC, I really do. BUT as a packin to show off the system, not the best. Probably should have been KC and 1 other game. Maybe Blazing Lazers, and certainly Bonk later.

In Europe the pack in was Blazing Lazers.

With that said, in the US as you suggested at various times they did pack in various Bonk games (there's pictures of various Bonk promotional bundles). I remember when I got my system for Christmas in 1990 there was a mail in deal for a free extra game from a choice of about 30.

Even at 12 or so I knew these things were fucked up and probably could have ran their marketing division in the US better than they did. They should have translated and brought over way more Japanese games, especially RPGs. That's what I wanted more than anything else at the time, and while we did have some good ones, there just weren't enough. They also should should have quit fucking with the Japanese box/cover art, replace the Japanese text with English and leave well enough alone. There have been plenty of threads about this topic, so I'll leave it at that.

The problem with bringing over RPGs is that they would have been on CD, there weren't a lot of HuCard RPGs, and CD-ROMs were too expensive at the time to make the system a mainstream hit, they would have been forced to cater to a niche market.

[rag-time4]

The most interesting statement to me in the article was the idea that NEC should have "done more with Bonk."

At first i thought it made a lot of sense, but the more i think about it, i think they should have done more with JJ and Jeff. I remember as a kid how in turbo ads they would talk trash about the NES, and they seemed to take shots at mario 3 in particular, but it felt like pure propaganda. Bonk has always felt clunky and stiff to me. In a head to head comparison, JJ and Jeff win running away for smooth run and kick platforming.

Bonk had sequel after sequel but wasnt able to carry the platform to success because the games didnt compare to mario and sonic. JJ and Jeff had more potential but never got a sequel.

[Arkhan Asylum]

The problem with bringing over RPGs is that they would have been on CD, there weren't a lot of HuCard RPGs, and CD-ROMs were too expensive at the time to make the system a mainstream hit, they would have been forced to cater to a niche market.

Necromancer and Outlive would have been good frigging ideas.

and, I would have dug Sindibad.

These are all hueys too.

Necromancer should have been brought over.  That games awesome. 

They should have packed China Warrior and keith courage in together.  Altered Beast was the genesis packin for awhile, and its not like that games super-awesome.

[DragonmasterDan]

They should have packed China Warrior and keith courage in together.  Altered Beast was the genesis packin for awhile, and its not like that games super-awesome.

Yep, the Genesis didn't really take off until Sonic was packed in with the system two years later. But a lot of people forget that.

[CrackTiger]

There are many HuCard RPGs, especially compared to the perceived number of Genesis JRPGs.

The main problem with bringing over PCE RPGs is that RPGs were unpopular during that generation.

[DragonmasterDan]

There are many HuCard RPGs, especially compared to the perceived number of Genesis JRPGs.

The main problem with bringing over PCE RPGs is that RPGs were unpopular during that generation.

How many were there? I was thinking a dozen or so at most.

[jlued686]

Yeah, I'm not so sure RPGs would've done much to save the Turbo. It didn't seem like RPGs really took off in the States until after FFVII.

If anything, some more decent flashy platformers like Bonk, more licensed games like TMNT, Street Fighter 2 being localized (though by that time, the writing was on the wall), and even a tiny bit of support from publishers like Konami and Capcom would've done wonders.

[Arkhan Asylum]

RPGs were huge back then in my area.  Thats all my older relatives and their friends talked about/played.  Commodore 64/DOS RPGs, NES ones.   Dragon Warrior was like crack around here. 

There is also a really heavy penpaper/table top gaming history / scene, so maybe its all related?

[DragonmasterDan]

RPGs were huge back then in my area.  Thats all my older relatives and their friends talked about/played.  Commodore 64/DOS RPGs, NES ones.   Dragon Warrior was like crack around here. 

There is also a really heavy penpaper/table top gaming history / scene, so maybe its all related?

The problem was that RPGs required reading. Kids found them boring and not having enough action and being too wordy at the time.

With that said I loved Dragon Warrior as a kid and spent countless hours playing RPGs from about age 7, but.. at a time when the gaming industry was seen entirely as a sub-section of the toy industry RPGs weren't the most popular genre.

[A_Locomotive]

There are many HuCard RPGs

Really? Were they mostly Japanese? What about English releases, I know of the Neutopias, Dungeon Explorer and Double Dungeons but what else was there? I'd love to play some RPGs on my TG16 so if you could drop some names that would be awesome. :]

I read the article and I must say I think the part about the name being a reason it failed is idiotic, TurboGrafx-16 isn't hard to spell or remember unless your a moron so I think they were just grasping at straws in an attempt to extend the article.

[CrackTiger]

There are many HuCard RPGs, especially compared to the perceived number of Genesis JRPGs.

The main problem with bringing over PCE RPGs is that RPGs were unpopular during that generation.

How many were there? I was thinking a dozen or so at most.

That's just about how many JRPGs were brought over for SNES.

I read the article and I must say I think the part about the name being a reason it failed is idiotic, TurboGrafx-16 isn't hard to spell or remember unless your a moron so I think they were just grasping at straws in an attempt to extend the article.

Before they became household names, what do you think the average kid would've thought of words like "Sega", "Genesis" or "Nintendo". I guarantee that none could've told you what a Sega or Nintendo was. But I don't think that any kid at the time would've been clueless about words like "Turbo", "Graphics" or "Sixteen".

[DragonmasterDan]

That's just about how many JRPGs were brought over for SNES.

I don't think RPGs helped the SNES much either, these days people like to go back and fondly remember playing Chrono Trigger, Earhbound and Final Fantasy 6. But none of those games were monster sellers in the US, the only one that sold particularly well was Super Mario RPG, because it had Mario in it.

[CrackTiger]

That's just about how many JRPGs were brought over for SNES.

I don't think RPGs helped the SNES much either, these days people like to go back and fondly remember playing Chrono Trigger, Earhbound and Final Fantasy 6. But none of those games were monster sellers in the US, the only one that sold particularly well was Super Mario RPG, because it had Mario in it.

I agree. Although RPGs have been my favorite since the 8-bit generation, I've never pretended that they were mainstream or hardware sellers bitd.

Someone just said that there weren't many PCE RPGs on HuCard. But going by what North Americans were used to, even by the number of JRPGs that were on the console that is remembered as having loads of them, there was a good amount of PCE HuCard JRPGs. The PCE has more RPGs and RPGish games than SFC and a comparable number of RPG/ish games as it does shooters. But non-PCE-fans love to say how the PCE only has shooters and that the SNES/SFC was the king of RPGs.

In Europe the pack in was Blazing Lazers.

The PAL TurboGrafx pack-in was random. Mine came with Alien Crush.

[T2KFreeker]

I don't know about the RPG argument. I think people forget about a group of gamers that came from the AD&D era. Most of my friends and the like were way into RPG's on the consoles. I still remember us all thinking the Sega Master System was so much better than the Genesis because it had Phantasy Star on it! We ran through games like Shadowgate, Immortal, The Dragon Warrior Games. Zelda was HUGE. When I had my Turbo Grafx and nobody else did, we all went out looking for the Neutopia games and tried, very in Vain sadly, to find AD&D Order of the Phoenix. Also, many of the people I knew were talking about the Turbo Grafx CD system because of the Y's games and the Valis games. We all wanted the Sega CD system too after seeing Lunar the Silver Star and Shining Force CD.Those were the games that were popular here in Palmdale California. Most of the kids here thought that shooters were cool and the like but most of them liked playing those in Arcades. We thought that RPG's were cool because it was something unique to the consoles. Just a side look is all I am saying. RPG's may not have been the end all of the consoles at the time, but there were a large number of gamers that did play them and enjoy them.

[DragonmasterDan]

The PAL TurboGrafx pack-in was random. Mine came with Alien Crush.

Interesting was yours a UK one or one from Spain? Almost every one I've seen came with Blazing Lazers.

[jlued686]

I don't know about the RPG argument. I think people forget about a group of gamers that came from the AD&D era. Most of my friends and the like were way into RPG's on the consoles. I still remember us all thinking the Sega Master System was so much better than the Genesis because it had Phantasy Star on it! We ran through games like Shadowgate, Immortal, The Dragon Warrior Games. Zelda was HUGE. When I had my Turbo Grafx and nobody else did, we all went out looking for the Neutopia games and tried, very in Vain sadly, to find AD&D Order of the Phoenix. Also, many of the people I knew were talking about the Turbo Grafx CD system because of the Y's games and the Valis games. We all wanted the Sega CD system too after seeing Lunar the Silver Star and Shining Force CD.Those were the games that were popular here in Palmdale California. Most of the kids here thought that shooters were cool and the like but most of them liked playing those in Arcades. We thought that RPG's were cool because it was something unique to the consoles. Just a side look is all I am saying. RPG's may not have been the end all of the consoles at the time, but there were a large number of gamers that did play them and enjoy them.

There's no doubt that RPGs had an audience, but they weren't, by any means, system sellers.

[Arkhan Asylum]

they werent system sellers?

that is probably why N64 failed.  No RPGs.   Theres like, 3 of them.

[DragonmasterDan]

they werent system sellers?

that is probably why N64 failed.  No RPGs.   Theres like, 3 of them.

The first RPG that was a system seller in the US at least, is widely regarding as being Final Fantasy VII (this in no way reflects the quality of the game, merely the popularity of it).

[sheath]

Interesting article.  I personally think the PCE/DUO were ahead of their time by having only one controller port and forcing the buyer to pay for add-ons to have stereo sound, composite, and multiplayer.  The Playstation and PS2 are almost entirely single player affairs, this proves for all time that the masses tend to play games alone in a dark room and rarely shower.  

Also, the DINs were huge on the TurboGrafx-16 (spelt right) because everybody knows that Americans have huge hands and are intrinsically clumsier than Japanese people.  

I personally have not noticed the TurboGrafx-16 or DUO considered a failure in gaming circles like the Saturn frequently is.  Both are considered elite hard-core gaming havens by real gamers, but in my experience only the TG16/DUO gets recognized as such.  It is nearly impossible to find a thread about the Saturn that doesn't include the phrase "horrible mess," by comparison.  

Wait a minute, did 1-up seriously base a multi-page article on multiple consoles on the opinions of Victor Ireland?!

[CrackTiger]

I don't know about the RPG argument. I think people forget about a group of gamers that came from the AD&D era. Most of my friends and the like were way into RPG's on the consoles. I still remember us all thinking the Sega Master System was so much better than the Genesis because it had Phantasy Star on it! We ran through games like Shadowgate, Immortal, The Dragon Warrior Games. Zelda was HUGE. When I had my Turbo Grafx and nobody else did, we all went out looking for the Neutopia games and tried, very in Vain sadly, to find AD&D Order of the Phoenix. Also, many of the people I knew were talking about the Turbo Grafx CD system because of the Y's games and the Valis games. We all wanted the Sega CD system too after seeing Lunar the Silver Star and Shining Force CD.Those were the games that were popular here in Palmdale California. Most of the kids here thought that shooters were cool and the like but most of them liked playing those in Arcades. We thought that RPG's were cool because it was something unique to the consoles. Just a side look is all I am saying. RPG's may not have been the end all of the consoles at the time, but there were a large number of gamers that did play them and enjoy them.

Myself and a few others in my hometown were also huge RPG fans and I often saw the same people when buying second hand games through the local paper. But everyone else was playing platformers and the latest edition of NHL' .

There has always been a large number of RPG console fans, but they were always a tiny percentage of the market before FFVII. Even FFIII(VI) was supposed to have broken new ground for RPGs popularity wise, but it and Chrono Trigger and PSIV sold very poorly compared to real hits and were special cases when non-RPG fans would play them, but not hunt down other RPGs afterward.

If RPGs were popular enough before FFVII,  we would have recieved Final Fantasy 2, 3 & 5, at least Dragon Warrior 5 & 6 and Capcom would have brought over Breath of Fire 1.

[DragonmasterDan]

I personally have not noticed the TurboGrafx-16 or DUO considered a failure in gaming circles like the Saturn frequently is.  Both are considered elite hard-core gaming havens by real gamers, but in my experience only the TG16/DUO gets recognized as such.  It is nearly impossible to find a thread about the Saturn that doesn't include the phrase "horrible mess," by comparison. 

Wait a minute, did 1-up seriously base a multi-page article on multiple consoles on the opinions of Victor Ireland?!

There's other reasons for that. I LOVE the Saturn, but.. it was extremely difficult to develop for and properly optimize the hardware. It was expensive and difficult to consolidate making it more difficult for Sega to keep up with price drops, it was launched early with very few games in the US.

Simply put there's a lot more to complain about with the Saturn, it was a horrible mess, but that doesn't mean it also wasn't a great hardcore gaming system.

[sheath]

I personally have not noticed the TurboGrafx-16 or DUO considered a failure in gaming circles like the Saturn frequently is.  Both are considered elite hard-core gaming havens by real gamers, but in my experience only the TG16/DUO gets recognized as such.  It is nearly impossible to find a thread about the Saturn that doesn't include the phrase "horrible mess," by comparison. 

Wait a minute, did 1-up seriously base a multi-page article on multiple consoles on the opinions of Victor Ireland?!

There's other reasons for that. I LOVE the Saturn, but.. it was extremely difficult to develop for and properly optimize the hardware. It was expensive and difficult to consolidate making it more difficult for Sega to keep up with price drops, it was launched early with very few games in the US.

Simply put there's a lot more to complain about with the Saturn, it was a horrible mess, but that doesn't mean it also wasn't a great hardcore gaming system.

Yeah, I question that line every time I see it though.  I think it is an exaggeration to say that the Saturn was overly complex to code for in comparison to contemporary consoles.  The reality was that it was more time consuming to hand write 3D engines in assembly than it was to use Sony's C libraries for the PS1.  Even with that difference though, many Saturn games were ported by a single programmer, that is a far cry from being overly complex.

For posterity, I hope the record gets set straight that Sega's not providing adequate C libraries as early as Sony did created the perception of the Saturn's complexity long before developers learned of any idiosyncrasies in the actual hardware design. 

To me it is no different than somebody saying that the PCE/TG16 couldn't do parallax because it was too hard to implement.  Not only do games in the existing library prove this statement false, we also know technically that the system could handle parallax through various means.

[DragonmasterDan]

Yeah, I question that line every time I see it though.  I think it is an exaggeration to say that the Saturn was overly complex to code for in comparison to contemporary consoles.  The reality was that it was more time consuming to hand write 3D engines in assembly than it was to use Sony's C libraries for the PS1.  Even with that difference though, many Saturn games were ported by a single programmer, that is a far cry from being overly complex.

For posterity, I hope the record gets set straight that Sega's not providing adequate C libraries as early as Sony did created the perception of the Saturn's complexity long before developers learned of any idiosyncrasies in the actual hardware design. 

To me it is no different than somebody saying that the PCE/TG16 couldn't do parallax because it was too hard to implement.  Not only do games in the existing library prove this statement false, we also know technically that the system could handle parallax through various means.

It was definitely more time consuming. Also, you left out the whole performance hit when going from Quadralaterals to Polygonal Triangles. And Sega never provided C libraries that were comparable to the development tools Sony did, that's a lot of the problem. The unusual architecture made the system far more difficult to develop for, plain and simple.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Not to mention the Saturn in general is just wonky to program for.  It's powerful, but wonky in comparison to say, The Glorious PC-FX, and even the PS1

[T2KFreeker]

Not to mention the Saturn in general is just wonky to program for.  It's powerful, but wonky in comparison to say, The Glorious PC-FX, and even the PS1

Man, I hated the original Playstation. Not to say that the system doesn't have good games, but I still have a LAUNCH Saturn that still works. However, I went through 7 Playstations. How is that possible especially since I played my Saturn more.

[A_Locomotive]

Not to mention the Saturn in general is just wonky to program for.  It's powerful, but wonky in comparison to say, The Glorious PC-FX, and even the PS1

Man, I hated the original Playstation. Not to say that the system doesn't have good games, but I still have a LAUNCH Saturn that still works. However, I went through 7 Playstations. How is that possible especially since I played my Saturn more.

I've gone through 4, 2 of the original design and 2 of the slim models. The last slim works but it for some reason needs to be upside down to work. lol

[BigusSchmuck]

I've gone through 4, 2 of the original design and 2 of the slim models. The last slim works but it for some reason needs to be upside down to work. lol

Yeah went through my share of ps1s and ps2s as well hence the reason why I never bothered with the ps3 or the xbox360, just too high of a failure rate. I'm still very amazed how well the duo has held up even after 20 years, I mean seriously, people are just now starting to have problems with them. Kind of like the toyata supras, over engineered to last a lifetime. ^^

[roflmao]

I'm on my second PS1.  The first one I tried to modify myself and botched.  It still played games but wouldn't play audio CDs, so I gave it to a friend.  The second one (which I purchased in '99 or '00) is still running strong.  I had no idea they had such a high failure rate.  

EDIT: I'm still on my first PS2 which I bought in 2003/4.  Though when HD Advance was released I quickly bought it, stuck an unused hard drive in my PS2 and moved all my games over to it, so maybe that has helped with its longevity.  I still have a few games for the PS2 that wouldn't play properly from the HD Advance, but it's few and far between so the DVD Drive doesn't get a ton of use.

[sheath]

My college roommate had an early PS1 without the proprietary A/V output.  We had to turn it on its top to play games only a couple of years after he bought it.  My PS2 has had the laser adjusted twice, and my 360 has been factory repaired three times.  Yeah, that is what I would call a horrible mess.  ;)

[A_Locomotive]

I've gone through 4, 2 of the original design and 2 of the slim models. The last slim works but it for some reason needs to be upside down to work. lol

Yeah went through my share of ps1s and ps2s as well hence the reason why I never bothered with the ps3 or the xbox360, just too high of a failure rate. I'm still very amazed how well the duo has held up even after 20 years, I mean seriously, people are just now starting to have problems with them. Kind of like the toyata supras, over engineered to last a lifetime. ^^

Early PS2's were a doozy as well. My first one did the thing so many launch ones did and just slowly lose its ability to read, first blue discs, then PS1, then all. Everyone I know who bought a launch PS2 had this happen to them, was very frustrating since this happened not long after the warranty was up. My current one is holding up pretty well, its had some read issues but a little cleaning has always fixed it. But just in case I recently bought a new one to keep in storage for when this one dies.

[T2KFreeker]

They can't build proper consoles anymore, and that's very sad indeed. I swear that one of the reasons they have moved from Cart to CD is so people have to spend more money on replacing the systems due to them wearing out. I'd buy a console that used SD Card as it's media or something similar. Not like you can't get the same performance out of it without all the moving parts. Then again, I'm sure they'd find a way to screw that up too. Sign of the times is this: My Six Switch Atari 2600, which is over 30 years old, fires right up. Consoles made less than five years ago are dead. See a problem here?

[OldRover]

Your 6 switch Atari 2600 also doesn't contain tons of heat-sensitive components in a package which only has proper heat exhaust when boneheads don't cover the air escape.

[Joe Redifer]

I still have my original O.G. launch day PS1 (with the dedicated Composite and Stereo outputs in addition to the multi-out).  Some games I need to put the unit upside down, mostly CD-Rs.  I do not understand why this helps it to work better.

[T2KFreeker]

I still have my original O.G. launch day PS1 (with the dedicated Composite and Stereo outputs in addition to the multi-out).  Some games I need to put the unit upside down, mostly CD-Rs.  I do not understand why this helps it to work better.

It's a flaw in the motors from Sony. This has been the case from way back. I have had a DVD Player from Sony, a CD Player and even, get this, a Laserdisc player that were the same. Mind you, in the end, the LD Player had to be put almost completely on it's side to get the motor spinning. I ended up trashing it, sadly in the end because I wasn't about to destroy a Laserdisc just to see if it would work upside down.

[geise]

I have a pre-order launch PS1.  After 6 months I got the skipping issue, and had to flip it upside down.  Well eventually I just replaced the lens and it is still working like a champ.

I also still have my launch Saturn.  I don't feel that it was a failure in the US.  Yeah, it didn't do great sales wise compard to the ps1 or n64.  However, it did last on store shelves a lot longer than the US Duo. (1995-1998)  Regardless those two systems are my favorite!

[Nazi NecroPhile]

I swear that one of the reasons they have moved from Cart to CD is so people have to spend more money on replacing the systems due to them wearing out. I'd buy a console that used SD Card as it's media or something similar.

It's a cost issue: a 32GB SD card is about $30 right now, and when the 360/PS3 launched they were at least double that.

[DragonmasterDan]

I swear that one of the reasons they have moved from Cart to CD is so people have to spend more money on replacing the systems due to them wearing out. I'd buy a console that used SD Card as it's media or something similar.

It's a cost issue: a 32GB SD card is about $30 right now, and when the 360/PS3 launched they were at least double that.

5 years ago when they launched, an 8 gig SD card was at least double that. Let alone a 32 GB.

[geise]

You can run games off of the SD card for the Wii.  A couple years ago they updated the system firmware to support SDHC cards.

[Arkhan Asylum]

I still have my original O.G. launch day PS1 (with the dedicated Composite and Stereo outputs in addition to the multi-out).  Some games I need to put the unit upside down, mostly CD-Rs.  I do not understand why this helps it to work better.

its because when it's inverted, gravity helps give it the strength it needs to read accurately.  Otherwise its like a 90 year old man reaching for a box of cookies on top the fridge.

Two of my PS1s need this as well.

Ones the composite out one like yours. 

[jlued686]

they werent system sellers?

that is probably why N64 failed.  No RPGs.   Theres like, 3 of them.

Bwah? I'm not computing. The N64 failed? Also, see following post about FF7.

I'm just saying that in the 16 bit days, RPGs hadn't really gained MASS popularity in the States. I enjoyed them, sure, as did many of my friends. But platformers, action games, and sports were the big draw back then; along with Street Fighter/Mortal Kombat. That's all I'm saying, really.

[Arkhan Asylum]

The N64 sucked. 
There are like <=10 games on the thing that are worth a damn:

Mischief Makers
Jet Force Gemini
Banjo Kazooie
OoT
and I forget the rest.  There weren't that many at all.  It's pretty pathetic.  The library sucks.

Dumb controller with weak joystick that gets crappy fast, crappy expansions, derpy muddy graphics, cartridges instead of CDs.

and yes, FFVII.  That was supposed to be an N64 game but ...

"Please insert cartridge 2" wouldn't have worked, lol.

[geise]

RPG's didn't really get "mainstream" till FF7 came out on PSX.    Yeah there was a good following on the SNES and earlier systems for the few decent RPG's.  Sadly it was FF7 and the internet that helped fuel the "must play rpg" frenzie.  So a system in the psx, n64, saturn days wasn't a failure from lack of RPG's.

[Arkhan Asylum]

thats why most RPG n00bs are like FFVII IS BEST BIDEO DAEM EVARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.  WHATS A SNES?

[jlued686]

The N64 sucked. 
There are like <=10 games on the thing that are worth a damn:

Mischief Makers
Jet Force Gemini
Banjo Kazooie
OoT
and I forget the rest.  There weren't that many at all.  It's pretty pathetic.  The library sucks.

Dumb controller with weak joystick that gets crappy fast, crappy expansions, derpy muddy graphics, cartridges instead of CDs.

and yes, FFVII.  That was supposed to be an N64 game but ...

"Please insert cartridge 2" wouldn't have worked, lol.

Ah, I gotcha. Sales-wise, though, not particularly a "failure".

[Arkhan Asylum]

Thats like saying the Wii isn't a failure though... lol