Anyone hacked Exile 2 to fix the difficulty?

[arromdee]

With questions about translations and ports and such, surely something like this would be a worthwhile project and much more feasible than translating a whole game.  Has anyone managed to do it?

(And while you're at it, hack it to fix the censored translation... Klispins indeed.)

[MotherGunner]

Great question.  I played the hacked rom for sidearms since I don't have the skills to make it to the end.  I have wondered the same as well and if there are any other titles out there that are hacked and improved.  Perhaps change the topic to discuss all of them?

[BigusSchmuck]

With questions about translations and ports and such, surely something like this would be a worthwhile project and much more feasible than translating a whole game.  Has anyone managed to do it?

(And while you're at it, hack it to fix the censored translation... Klispins indeed.)

Its a shame we really don't have many dedicated groups to hacking Turbo/PCE games. Most groups are still sadly doing stuff for the nes and snes which IMHO doesn't need any more loving.
What the pce scene really needs right now is more documentation so we can get more people interested in projects such as suggested above.

[TurboXray]

I had thought Nodt ('old Rover) had looked into this game and related stuff a number of years back. I dunno, maybe my memory is failing me.

[OldRover]

Not this one... I messed with Shape Shifter, Sinistron, and Dead Moon... but not Exile II. I know what's broken but have never monkeyed with it to fix it. I just know Exile II like the back of my hand, is all...

[Mishran]

Never had the luxury of owning the game, so I never played it. What about the messed up code makes the game so difficult? Enemies doing more damage per hit than what's feasible?

[OldRover]

Yeah. Apparently, it's just one value set in the code that screws everything up. Every combat value in the game seems to be based on this one root value... Working Designs changed that one value to make the game harder, but ended up making it legendarily difficult. The original is way too easy by comparison.

[Mishran]

Yeah. Apparently, it's just one value set in the code that screws everything up. Every combat value in the game seems to be based on this one root value... Working Designs changed that one value to make the game harder, but ended up making it legendarily difficult. The original is way too easy by comparison.

Ok, makes sense. Dumbasses... Must have been a last minute change with very little to no beta testing after the change or WD did it on purpose to be douches...

[OldRover]

I think it was rushed, honestly... there were other far more important issues with the game that should have been addressed instead, such as the terribly broken collision detection present in the original version. They overhauled certain graphical elements of the game but couldn't fix the broken coldet? Really?

[SignOfZeta]

Yeah, it was just rushed. Really really rushed. Obviously there was no play testing after the point at which that value was changed. IIRC it takes over an hour with the attack button taped down sitting in just the right spot killing giant scorpions over and over again to get enough XP for the final level. If you get hit by any of them you die instantly. Once maxed on levels, its STILL bitch hard to get anything done.

This is just what I vaguely recall. I sold the game in the late 90s.

[ParanoiaDragon]

Yeah, it was just rushed. Really really rushed. Obviously there was no play testing after the point at which that value was changed. IIRC it takes over an hour with the attack button taped down sitting in just the right spot killing giant scorpions over and over again to get enough XP for the final level. If you get hit by any of them you die instantly. Once maxed on levels, its STILL bitch hard to get anything done.

This is just what I vaguely recall. I sold the game in the late 90s.

I don't recall finding a spot to do that?   I do remember in Exile 1 there were a couple spots in the first level where I'd kill dragon fly's, & just wrap a rubber band around the controller.  Ahh, memories!  But yeah, Exile 2 is very difficult, even if you are maxed out.  Still, it's beatable, & that's coming from a guy who plays EVERY game on easy!  It's one of the few games that people complain about, that I've actually figured out a way to beat! So if I can beat Exile 2, anyone can!

[OldRover]

Hell, the original game was rushed out the door too. The technical flaws extend way beyond the mere damage imbalance.

[Shrapnoid]

Well, that sucks. I didn't know about this flaw. I've been wanting to get both of these games for quite some time. I had no idea that there was a difficulty glitch but, if Ben says that he found a way around it then maybe the rest of us can as well.

By the way, Ben, how's your leg? Did it heal up well where you tore it open on that old pipe or whatever it was?

[jperryss]

Yeah, it was just rushed. Really really rushed. Obviously there was no play testing after the point at which that value was changed. IIRC it takes over an hour with the attack button taped down sitting in just the right spot killing giant scorpions over and over again to get enough XP for the final level. If you get hit by any of them you die instantly. Once maxed on levels, its STILL bitch hard to get anything done.

This is just what I vaguely recall. I sold the game in the late 90s.

I don't recall finding a spot to do that?   I do remember in Exile 1 there were a couple spots in the first level where I'd kill dragon fly's, & just wrap a rubber band around the controller.  Ahh, memories!  But yeah, Exile 2 is very difficult, even if you are maxed out.  Still, it's beatable, & that's coming from a guy who plays EVERY game on easy!  It's one of the few games that people complain about, that I've actually figured out a way to beat! So if I can beat Exile 2, anyone can!

From what I remember, this trick works in Exile 1 only. Exile 2 requires the player to scroll the screen to make enemies re-appear.

[OldRover]

The US Exile II doesn't even have respawning enemies... you have to leave the area to get enemies to respawn. So in places where you need to level-grind (like the Spire Of Eternity... how appropriately named), you have to go in and out of the place over and over again. I don't recall if the Japanese version worked the same way, as I've only played it through once... and it was as easy as XZR.

[incrediblehark]

Working designs was always a love/hate relationship, releasing quality games that would be considered niche titles at the time, mostly rpgs, but then adding their own "touches" like cheesy script re-writes and "enhancements" like unbalanced play in exile ii and limiting saves in lunar ii

[CrackTiger]

One of the issues I remember with Exile II/WP is that the screen doesn't scroll until you are closer to the edge than should be in a game. I believe that both versions have this problem.

[OldRover]

The original Exile II is also unbalanced... it's way too easy.

[esteban]

Never had the luxury of owning the game, so I never played it. What about the messed up code makes the game so difficult? Enemies doing more damage per hit than what's feasible?

For folks who need advice: search the forums for Old Rover's (nodtveidt's) "strategy guide" for Exile 2...it was very thorough, IIRC.

[OldRover]

One of the issues I remember with Exile II/WP is that the screen doesn't scroll until you are closer to the edge than should be in a game. I believe that both versions have this problem.

One of the many flaws in Exile II that *could* have been corrected by WD. Oh well.

[Shrapnoid]

One of the issues I remember with Exile II/WP is that the screen doesn't scroll until you are closer to the edge than should be in a game. I believe that both versions have this problem.

I *hate* it when games do that! It really makes you wonder sometimes what it was they were thinking when they set it up like that.
Is it just to piss off the player or maybe just a matter of not feeling like doing anything to fix the problem or maybe a little bit of both?

[jayamine]

Don't bother raising to the final experience level. That's another bug in the game. The hardest part for me was the Genie boss fight before the end. I used Khindi and mixed the potion that doubles strength and got lucky killing him in a few hits. Doing the same for the final boss should help .. but this is memory from twenty years ago. I still have the potion mixing chart written down somewhere if anyone wants it.

[nat]

Exile II (US) comes off as really difficult at first, but then you realize that it's just that each enemy requires 157 hits to defeat. Once you realize this, the game isn't really all that hard. It's unnecessarily annoying, lengthy, and inane but only challenging in that you have to find the will within yourself to keep pressing on.

[Keranu]

Yeah I found the only truly challenging parts to be a couple of boss fights, the hardest being Djinn before the final boss.

[Mishran]

Finally started playing through this game, and yeah... not easy at all. Rediculous, in fact. Carrying a shit load of potions does tend to help out some. I'll get through it at some point before I die.

Hopefully.

[OldRover]

It's weird... I can now play through this game from beginning to end and not use a single healing item of any kind until the last area... and even there, I might only need a couple. It's tough as nails until you figure out all the enemy patterns and where things are gonna be.

[Mishran]

It's weird... I can now play through this game from beginning to end and not use a single healing item of any kind until the last area... and even there, I might only need a couple. It's tough as nails until you figure out all the enemy patterns and where things are gonna be.

Your a far better gamer than I then. I believe I'm at mount icarus now. The female creature with the homing spells is what is giving me trouble currently. Of course, I've only used Sadler up to this point, which may be my problem. I'll try some more tonight when I get home from work.

[DragonmasterDan]

It's weird... I can now play through this game from beginning to end and not use a single healing item of any kind until the last area... and even there, I might only need a couple. It's tough as nails until you figure out all the enemy patterns and where things are gonna be.

I didn't get very far at all and gave up. I've thought about picking up a Japanese copy at various times since I actually really liked the first game, but didn't want to invest a lot of time into the unbalanced US release of Exile 2.

[OldRover]

Your a far better gamer than I then. I believe I'm at mount icarus now. The female creature with the homing spells is what is giving me trouble currently. Of course, I've only used Sadler up to this point, which may be my problem. I'll try some more tonight when I get home from work.

The freaky fairy-things that fly overhead? It's just a matter of knowing when they'll appear. Sadler is fine for this area... I use him for most of the game anyway. Everyone else is pretty pathetic.

I didn't get very far at all and gave up. I've thought about picking up a Japanese copy at various times since I actually really liked the first game, but didn't want to invest a lot of time into the unbalanced US release of Exile 2.

The Japanese one is way easier. the US one is... well, it's so frustratingly difficult that it's not really even all that much fun. If not for the cool music, it'd be a total loss.

[Mishran]

Actually they just sit still from what I can tell. Throws what looks like a cluster of tiny stars at you which home in on you. The flying fairies are easy to avoid.

[OldRover]

That sounds like the obnoxious bitches in the undersea cave.

[Mishran]

That sounds like the obnoxious bitches in the undersea cave.

Ah, shit... Yes your right. Show how much I pay attention.

[nat]

The game (US ver) is actually not really all that difficult at all, save for a boss or two. It's just that every enemy takes 37 hits, while they can take you out in like 3. Once you realize this, and like Rover said, remember what enemies show up where, the game isn't anything more than tedious.

EDIT: Ironically, I said almost the exact same thing two months ago in this very thread:

Exile II (US) comes off as really difficult at first, but then you realize that it's just that each enemy requires 157 hits to defeat. Once you realize this, the game isn't really all that hard. It's unnecessarily annoying, lengthy, and inane but only challenging in that you have to find the will within yourself to keep pressing on.

[spenoza]

So, fixing that would still improve the game, despite your intent to suggest otherwise?

[OldRover]

Restoring it to the original form would make the US version... actually fun.

[OldRover]

Oh... and getting past those bitches in the undersea cave is easy as pie if you use Rumi instead of Sadler. I usually just use her for the cave, until I get to the boss... then I switch back to Sadler, coz he can handle it better (though Rumi is good for that boss fight too, if you're not already used to the prick of a boss down there).

[nat]

So, fixing that would still improve the game, despite your intent to suggest otherwise?

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here.

I wasn't saying anything about fixing the game or not fixing the game, I was only pointing out (since people like to cry about its "difficulty") that the US version really isn't all that difficult. There's a big difference between difficulty and tedium.

I don't think there's any debate that WD screwed things up big time.

[Mishran]

I wasn't saying anything about fixing the game or not fixing the game, I was only pointing out (since people like to cry about its "difficulty") that the US version really isn't all that difficult. There's a big difference between difficulty and tedium.

I don't think there's any debate that WD screwed things up big time.

You have to also remember that everyone is different. Some people make a better "gamer" than others. Not to mention the fact that some people have more time to devote to honing their gaming skills than others. Some people are also better suited to certain games than others. (I've completed Gears of War 1 on insane, 1 player, without dying even once, for example.) Hell, the first time through, most people would find WP difficult, but the third play through could be a cake walk once you get adapted to the game.

As you said, the enemies taking 37 hits while being able to kill you in 3 hit? I would consider that raising the difficulty bar up a bit. That is also only my personal opinion though.

[jperryss]

I wasn't saying anything about fixing the game or not fixing the game, I was only pointing out (since people like to cry about its "difficulty") that the US version really isn't all that difficult. There's a big difference between difficulty and tedium.

I don't think there's any debate that WD screwed things up big time.

You have to also remember that everyone is different. Some people make a better "gamer" than others. Not to mention the fact that some people have more time to devote to honing their gaming skills than others. Some people are also better suited to certain games than others. (I've completed Gears of War 1 on insane, 1 player, without dying even once, for example.) Hell, the first time through, most people would find WP difficult, but the third play through could be a cake walk once you get adapted to the game.

As you said, the enemies taking 37 hits while being able to kill you in 3 hit? I would consider that raising the difficulty bar up a bit. That is also only my personal opinion though.

Right. It's like saying "shooter X is no harder than shooter Y, it's just that shooter X has 10X more enemies and half as many powerups."

[Arkhan Asylum]

The game (US ver) is actually not really all that difficult at all, save for a boss or two. It's just that every enemy takes 37 hits, while they can take you out in like 3. Once you realize this, and like Rover said, remember what enemies show up where, the game isn't anything more than tedious.

EDIT: Ironically, I said almost the exact same thing two months ago in this very thread:

Exile II (US) comes off as really difficult at first, but then you realize that it's just that each enemy requires 157 hits to defeat. Once you realize this, the game isn't really all that hard. It's unnecessarily annoying, lengthy, and inane but only challenging in that you have to find the will within yourself to keep pressing on.

Next time you post about it, you'll have defeated the enemy, right?

157 hits, then 37! Next is 0, meaning you win!

I thought the game was easy.


But, I play alot of games that require far more tedium, so this was just common to me.

[Mishran]

I've made it far into the Ark once so far today. The tower keeps kicking my bum. Stupid pitchfork carrying bats suck. Can you even harm the dragons? Only time I seem to be able to harm/kill them is after they already killed me! That's what they get for humping Sadler's dead body. Way to go dragons!

What was with that red monster on the wall? I couldn't seem to even harm it with Lawrence. It killed(?) him, I saved, and I just kept playing. Did I make a mistake?

[spenoza]

Increasing the number of required hits DOES make the game harder, even as it makes it more tedious. Why? Because you have to hit the enemy far more times, while managing not to get hit by the other enemies around you at the same time. That makes it harder. You may not have found it particularly hard, but that's still harder than the Japanese original.

[OldRover]

I've made it far into the Ark once so far today. The tower keeps kicking my bum. Stupid pitchfork carrying bats suck.

Use Rumi to attack them from a distance. If their health is restored each time they circle, scroll a bit more in. They're stupid.

Can you even harm the dragons? Only time I seem to be able to harm/kill them is after they already killed me! That's what they get for humping Sadler's dead body. Way to go dragons!

The dragons are invincible. Just avoid them. Sucker them into falling to the ground, and then you can just stroll along to the door... but make sure they follow you, or else you'll run into their respawns.

What was with that red monster on the wall? I couldn't seem to even harm it with Lawrence. It killed(?) him, I saved, and I just kept playing. Did I make a mistake?

Do-Tar is unkillable in the Lawrence scene. You did it right.

See, once you figure out how to deal with each enemy, it's just a matter of paying attention. That's why I can hardcore spank this game.

[nat]

Right. It's like saying "shooter X is no harder than shooter Y, it's just that shooter X has 10X more enemies and half as many powerups."

But it doesn't have half as many powerups, or 10 times as many enemies, so it's really not the same at all.

Increasing the number of required hits DOES make the game harder, even as it makes it more tedious. Why? Because you have to hit the enemy far more times, while managing not to get hit by the other enemies around you at the same time. That makes it harder. You may not have found it particularly hard, but that's still harder than the Japanese original.

As you said, the enemies taking 37 hits while being able to kill you in 3 hit? I would consider that raising the difficulty bar up a bit. That is also only my personal opinion though.

You would? So wrapping a rubber band around your controller's II button and walking away while your player hacks away at the enemy is difficult? I guess, if it's a long walk to the kitchen to make that sandwich.

They didn't alter the AI at all. Maybe my definition of "difficulty" is different than everyone else's, but difficult for me involves faster, smarter enemies, tricky platforming segments, puzzles, that sort of thing. Changing a number that alters the required number of hits to kill an enemy doesn't make a game any more difficult, unless other factors are also changed that put the player in immediate peril. Does it make it longer? Sure. Tedious? You bet. Difficult? Not in my book.

[Mishran]

dif·fi·cult
   adjective
      1. not easily or readily done; requiring much labor, skill, or planning to be performed successfully

[nat]

That pretty much reinforces my point right there.

[Mishran]

"requiring much labor"

... wouldn't that be the case here though? Much more labor to defeat enemies in the US vs. JP Exile 2? More button presses, dodging, attacking, etc? Seems so to me. But what do I know...

[OldRover]

By that definition, the US version is indeed difficult in comparison to the JP version.

But really... must we be so damned semantic? The US version is harder, period. That's just how it is. Once you know what do to, of course, it's easy. But that holds true for virtually all difficult games... they get easier as you play them and learn them. That doesn't make them any less difficult on their own. In Exile II, there are parts, especially later in the game, where one wrong step can kill you outright, no matter how much life you have... this is especially true when you're in the Pyramid... walk through the wrong door and fall on a mummy and it's game over no matter how strong you are.

[DragonmasterDan]

They didn't alter the AI at all. Maybe my definition of "difficulty" is different than everyone else's, but difficult for me involves faster, smarter enemies, tricky platforming segments, puzzles, that sort of thing. Changing a number that alters the required number of hits to kill an enemy doesn't make a game any more difficult, unless other factors are also changed that put the player in immediate peril. Does it make it longer? Sure. Tedious? You bet. Difficult? Not in my book.

I see your point, but having to successfully attack an enemy an excessive number of times while avoiding damage or doing so within their patterns increases your chances of being hit and as a result, makes it more difficult.

[RegalSin]

XZR2 was meh. The first game was auwsome, and the second game had a sword fight, and you barely get to make any usage of your freinds. I love the world, and everything the game has to offer. It was a real nice but it felt so damn forced. Like they did not even plan it right ( like Golden Sun 2 ).

The way I see it, is that your freinds all died with the ruin collapsed and
you spent the remainder of your life as a pot head buddist with a brain tumor. The rest of the series is just one sad wishful dream, ( like the current state of the Orient ). It is so laughable.