Question for those awaiting Neutopia 3

[ParanoiaDragon]

Ok, as the main composer of the music, I need your feedback.  Since this game is going to be big, it's going to have alot of songs, & quite frankly, the cd is going to be packed with data & redbook audio.  But, since there are so many overworld area's, there's alot of overworld songs, not to mention several dungeon & boss tracks, & ofcoarse the house theme from the first 2 games. 

Now, I have 1 villiage theme, which was composed by my buddy Jevax, & it's beautiful.  But, it might have to be the only song used for villiages, because there's only so much room on a disc.  Plus, if we do cinemas, which I hope we do, that's even more space that will be used on the disc.  Though, I'm hoping we'll do all the cinema's in adpcm, rather then redbook.  I also don't know yet if I'll need specific Event music.

So, my question to you guys is, would you rather have lot's of rockin' overworld music, & just one villiage theme?  Or would you want less overworld music, & several villiage themes?  To me, I'd rather have just more overworld music, but, I wanted to get feedback, & at the very least, make sure ya'll understand what I'm up against here.

It's always possible, that I might be able to make some short villiage themes, that, can end so that when the track reloads, it'll be on beat, but that's wait & see.

Anyways, so, fire away

[Joe Redifer]

I could live with one village theme.  If there are a bunch of villages, then it might be good to have two themes (one for poor villages and the other for rich?  I dunno).

Just as long as the soundtrack features Dragula by Rob Zombie it will be good.  Every game needs Dragula.  Oh wait, almost every game already has it.

[ParanoiaDragon]

Yeah, I thought about atleast 1 other one, where it's for villiages that have been destroyed or are in desperate times.

[Keranu]

I'd rather have more overworld songs probably, though having at least two different town tracks would be great. And yeah, can't have too much of that damn Dragula track.

[CrackTiger]

Screw the Villages, the more overworld tunes the better.

[Joe Redifer]

Maybe the villages could be PSG.  That way when you get out to the overworld(s) it seems more grandiose and crap like that.  This is a great idea.  They did the same thing with Ys 1 and 2 and look how great everyone thinks those games are.

Also, a note to the art designers:  What's the difference between anime and generic?  Nothing.  I hope you don't plan to have an anime art style.

[Keranu]

Maybe the villages could be PSG.  That way when you get out to the overworld(s) it seems more grandiose and crap like that.  This is a great idea.  They did the same thing with Ys 1 and 2 and look how great everyone thinks those games are.

This is indeed a great idea, only problem is that it's hard to find PCE PSG composers out there . It's hard enough making the sound effects.

Also, a note to the art designers:  What's the difference between anime and generic?  Nothing.  I hope you don't plan to have an anime art style.

I am the sprite designer and the art style for the sprites will closely follow the first two, more so of the second one. I guess you could sorta consider that anime, but there isn't much of an anime style to old sprites to begin with . As far as the cinemas and face portraits are concerned, and if we get the artist we are hoping for, the style will have an anime look. I'm not a fan of anime, but anime would suit Neutopia nicely as well as fitting in with other TG16/PCE CD games.

[Seldane]

We're hoping/pretty sure a member of Ancient Land of Ys will do the art for this game, and she is extremely talented. Here's a sample of her work:

/ysoyunicadown1sol1.th.jpg
Yunica from Ys Origin - Click to enlarge

Anyway, overworld music is much more important, as the overworlds will be vast, to say the least. But yeah, two village tunes would be cool, but definitely not necessary.

[ParanoiaDragon]

I've thought that, a style similar to Dungeon Explorer 2 would be the way to go, which is anime, but, I don't think it overdoes it, no big eyes, etc.  But, we'll see what happens.

[Nazi NecroPhile]

My $.02 - The villages aren't as important as the overworld; one or two village tunes would be fine.  Either DE2 style or as in the pic posted by Seldane would be fantastic.  It doesn't really matter to me, as long as there is consistancy throughout the game.  Now quit teasing me - when's the demo coming out? 

[Joe Redifer]

We're hoping/pretty sure a member of Ancient Land of Ys will do the art for this game, and she is extremely talented. Here's a sample of her work:

I'm sure she is talented, but that looks like every other anime drawing ever, except with maybe more sketch marks or something.  There certainly isn't anything unique about the style.  Hundreds of thousands of people all over the world actively draw the same exact style, which is why I consider anime generic.

I don't think I've played Neutopia 2, so I dunno.

[ParanoiaDragon]

That pic she did reminds me of Ys.  When I think of generic anime, I think of One Piece.  Just no real deffinition, very blah.

[GUTS]

Yeah its generic looking, but at least it looks professional and not shitty like most fan-art.

[OldRover]

Fortunately, the data portion of the disc will not be huge. I estimate that the data will not exceed 32MB, which leaves the other +600MB free for redbook audio. As for the PSG soundtrack idea...don't count on it. That would require either a PSG-based tracker or some kind of MIDI converter far superior to Trilinear's attempt (which isn't bad but isn't all that good either, nowhere near suited for professional deployment), and then a new music library to handle it all. It's more work than necessary. It sounds like a great idea until you're the one coding it, hehe.

[ParanoiaDragon]

Yeah, I can't do coding, & we really don't know anyone that does know how to do it well for the music.  If we did psg, I'd want someone who can do stuff, like who did Dungeon Explorer, Manic Pro Wrestling, & Legendary Axe 2.  Though, ultimately, I'd probably want Falcom to do it   They did an awesome job, especially on Legend of Xanadu 2!

[Kaminari]

This is indeed a great idea, only problem is that it's hard to find PCE PSG composers out there . It's hard enough making the sound effects.

PSG tunes in villages would be great.

It's hard to find motivated composers because we're in dire need of a decent PSG tracking program. Understandably, no composer today wants to waste time with a primitive MML notepad when other platforms have such neat sequencers as FamiTracker, NerdTrackers 2, Raster Music Tracker or Vortex Tracker 2.

[esteban]

In response to the original question: screw the villages!

However, instead of one (or two alternating) village themes, I say you use a short, looping, ambient track for each village. You could have a bunch of these soundscapes and recycle them once or twice, as necessary (in other words, each village doesn't have to have its own, unique track... but there will still be variety).

I think ambient tracks would be a nice break from the music (something I always liked) and it will get folks pumped up when they make the village --> new overworld transition.

When I say "ambient noise" or "soundscape", I'm pretty flexible. Personally, I'm thinking of soundscapes created with "natural" or "organic" sound effects... but subdued electronic ambient music that fosters a similar feeling would be fine as well.

The key thing, I think, is to make the track loop nicely... to minimize the extent to which folks realize it loops. A proper song is very noticable when it loops after 30 seconds, but a soundscape wouldn't be as annoying, IMO.

Anyway, those are my $0.02.

I'll be delighted with whatever you folks do!

[2X4]

I have to agree with Joe Redifer.  If it's feasible, you should consider doing a couple of town tracks in PSG.  Not only will it ramp up the effect of entering the overworld and hearing the redbook track.  Another reason is that the PSG music is just awesome, and one of the reasons that the turbo was so cool.  The PSG music enhances the nostalgic, old skool feel of the game. 

That said, if it isn't feasible, I would vote for having at least one alternate town track, because you spend so damn much time in the town (at least I do), you just need some variety.  It would be worth it if you have to double dip on one of the better overworld tracks, IMO.  Take one of the stronger overworld tracks and use it once towards the beginning of the game and again closer to the end.

[OldRover]

It would also tack on a ton of extra development time, that's the only real issue. I can write in a music player without problems, as it would just be a part of the sound engine that the game has now, but there would have to be a way to compose music in a way that we could make use of, and right now there's simply nothing that would work. The development time for such a utility is a project in and of itself that could easily take six months to a year to put together. As much as I do like the idea of using PSG-based music for certain parts, sadly it's simply unrealistic at this point. But that's not to say it can't be done...if it can be done and it doesn't add too much dev time to the project, I think it would work out.

[ParanoiaDragon]

Yeah, what Nod said

[esteban]

Hey Paranoia, do you like my idea or do you think it sucks? Don't worry about hurting my feelings .

Seriously, though, I'm just curious if there's even the slimmest chance of you folks doing something along those lines.

Also, I was thinking about this issue, and I recall some games used short tracks that looped... IIRC, Exile had a few tracks like that. They didn't use "soundscapes", but rather songs, so maybe short looping songs is a viable option as well?

:}

[Keranu]

Steve I like your idea and I think you made a very good point.

[VestCunt]

Here's an idea--make the villages totally badass.
No lame music needed.  Just roll into town during a thunderstorm, slaughter peasants, join an assassins guild, and loot the town treasury while rocking out to epic medieval ballads and shredding guitars...heck, throw in a Neutopia-style mix of Cop Killer.

[OldRover]

Here's an idea--make the villages totally badass.
No lame music needed.  Just roll into town during a thunderstorm, slaughter peasants, join an assassins guild, and loot the town treasury while rocking out to epic medieval ballads and shredding guitars...heck, throw in a Neutopia-style mix of Cop Killer.

Did you steal our design document or something?

[ParanoiaDragon]

I like your idea about ambient sound, but, I like music even more.  Pretty much, as far as I can tell, any villiage songs I do do, will be short.  Since Jevax hasn't finished the first villiage song, I'm not sure how long it'll be, but, it's a really good song!

[OldRover]

Even in its unfinished form, that piece sounds simply amazing. The two of you are just plain talented.

[Nazi NecroPhile]

Even in its unfinished form, that piece sounds simply amazing. The two of you are just plain talented.

Which is much better than fancy talented.   

[ParanoiaDragon]

I suppose   Well, that particular song is not my work, so I can't attribute me being talented due to that song.