NEO GEO X - New SNK Games Console

[PikachuWarrior]

that sucks that the console didn't last. maybe it'll become more valuable in the future

[PCEngineHell]

that sucks that the console didn't last. maybe it'll become more valuable in the future

Only if people can figure out a proper battery replacement. These things are throw away products, much like tablets. They don't retain much collect-ability due to their design. The fact that SNK is disowning it will hurt that even more. It was the right call by SNK though, because the thing was junk. And also, new forum look is terrible. Just sayin.

[esteban]

that sucks that the console didn't last. maybe it'll become more valuable in the future

Only if people can figure out a proper battery replacement. These things are throw away products, much like tablets. They don't retain much collect-ability due to their design. The fact that SNK is disowning it will hurt that even more. It was the right call by SNK though, because the thing was junk. And also, new forum look is terrible. Just sayin.

It seems that electronics in general have headed toward sealed, non-user-serviceable design for awhile. How do you even remove a battery that is sandwiched and fused to all the components?

Disposable camera, meet the future you heralded.

[EvilEvoIX]

are they even still for sale, who carries these things?

[Tatsujin]

official announcement:
 
JPN:
 http://www.snkplaymore.co.jp/pdf/131003_1.pdf
 
USA:
 http://www.snkplaymoreusa.com/termination-of-the-license-agreement-between-tommo-inc-and-snk-playmore-usa-corp

[Mishran]

What has SNK Playmore actually released in recent years aside for a few new KOF games and a few collections of their older shit. Seemed like the perfect pairing to me, SNK and Tommo. Both relatively useless companies these days.

[PikachuWarrior]

are they even still for sale, who carries these things?

It's still readily available on Amazon.com. I wonder if they will just pull inventory or do a fire sale to get ride of the remaining stock.

[Nando]

are they even still for sale, who carries these things?

It's still readily available on Amazon.com. I wonder if they will just pull inventory or do a fire sale to get ride of the remaining stock.

I'd be tempted to pick one up if it were to go on sale. A novelty item to say the least.

[Mishran]

are they even still for sale, who carries these things?

It's still readily available on Amazon.com. I wonder if they will just pull inventory or do a fire sale to get ride of the remaining stock.

I'd be tempted to pick one up if it were to go on sale. A novelty item to say the least.

Just stick to emulating on a PC, PSP, or a Wii. Better results. One redeeming point for the thing is the battery life. I've gone 8 hours of play (not in one sitting) without need to charge mine.

[EvilEvoIX]

It's such a shame these items were such a poor release and quality control.  Shooters had a delay in response, grafx not as good as a 24 year old neo geo console, the stereo sound REVERSED!!!!  The screen tearing is also unforgivable.  I guess I'm glad SNK pulled the license but I was praying for new Neo Geo games on the system, beat em' ups, side scrollers, shooters, all in the classic 16-bit glory.  At least we still have the Neo Dev team, all the games they've produced are high quality.

[Tatsujin]

UBERROLF

Tommo, Inc., today responded to the press release that appeared on the SNK PLAYMORE USA Corp website last week. Tommo, Inc. denies that any breach of contract exists in their agreement with SNK PLAYMORE USA Corp and are continuing to support and market the popular NEOGEO X GOLD entertainment system, its accessories, and games. Due to the popularity of the system, Tommo and SNK extended the agreement earlier this year until 2016. Tommo fully expects this agreement to be honored by all parties. To date, Tommo has performed all of its obligations under its license agreement with SNK and is disappointed by SNK's sudden and unjustified termination of the agreement. Tommo has demanded that SNK retract its press release and any attempts to terminate the license agreement.

THIS TIME IT'S WAR!!

[Opethian]

[Tatsujin]

ROLF

[Bloody Wolf]

hahahaaha i wan't a neo geo so bad tho...

[EvilEvoIX]

hahahaaha i wan't a neo geo so bad tho...

Just bite the bullet and go MVS.  AES is simply too expensive at this point unless you started YEARS ago like I did back in 1999 on a lark and been climbing the ladder ever since.  I have all the common games and some kinda rare I'm up to the $250 range in games .

[ccovell]

Cash & space savings and the most fun out of a system!

[Tatsujin]

Hehe, this isn't much more far from emulating.

[TR0N]

Amusing to read showing pics on how much the ngx is a failure.
http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?245494

[CrackTiger]

Hehe, this isn't much more far from emulating.

Like playing PCE games on the Turbo Everdrive.

[jperryss]

Hehe, this isn't much more far from emulating.

Like playing PCE games on the Turbo Everdrive.

Not the same. The experience of playing roms on the TED (or many other flash carts) is identical to playing the original hucards.

[Tatsujin]

I was referring to the pirate cart. And yeah blacky, it is, therefore i don't do it

One of the main pleasures of gaming is to put out a game of its original case, looking at its cover and manual, put the game in and eventually fire it up

You eat with your eyes first.

[TR0N]

 
SNK Orders a Cease and Desist on All Neo Geo X Gold Production (Sh*t's About to Get Real)

[Nazi NecroPhile]

One of the main pleasures of gaming is to put out a game of its original case, looking at its cover and manual, put the game in and eventually fire it up

I guess I'm doing it wrong, seeing as I get the most pleasure from PLAYING THE GAME!

You sound a bit like a collectard hoarder. 

[Nando]

One of the main pleasures of gaming is to put out a game of its original case, looking at its cover and manual, put the game in and eventually fire it up

I guess I'm doing it wrong, seeing as I get the most pleasure from PLAYING THE GAME!

You sound a bit like a collectard hoarder. 

To Tats defense I totally get where he is coming from. It's a total fetish. I love looking through old school manuals, seeing the artwork inserted in there and the extra stuff they used to throw in was even better, some times. So for me there is that tactile, owning it, looking at it fetish bit. But then again, that's why I am a member here

[Nazi NecroPhile]

I enjoy it a bit too, but just a bit; actually playing the game is at least 3/4 the fun.

[Nando]

I enjoy it a bit too, but just a bit; actually playing the game is at least 3/4 the fun.

well yeah, one is foreplay, the other full service and stuff.....

Can't really do that with the whole digital Download BS, even if they give you the artwork and extras digitally. It's just not the same.

[CrackTiger]

Hehe, this isn't much more far from emulating.

Like playing PCE games on the Turbo Everdrive.

Not the same. The experience of playing roms on the TED (or many other flash carts) is identical to playing the original hucards.

The unaltered games on that MVS multi-cart are identical to playing the original carts.

[Joe Redifer]

Hell I'd rather have a Neo Geo flash cart than a multi-cart.

[CrackTiger]

Hell I'd rather have a Neo Geo flash cart than a multi-cart.

Especially if it encouraged Neo Geo homebrew.

[ccovell]

Hehe, this isn't much more far from emulating.

Like playing PCE games on the Turbo Everdrive.

Not the same. The experience of playing roms on the TED (or many other flash carts) is identical to playing the original hucards.

The unaltered games on that MVS multi-cart are identical to playing the original carts.

Exactly.  (Well, the earliest Neo-Geo games on multicarts have samples missing, but are otherwise identical.)

Especially if it encouraged Neo Geo homebrew.

The Neo-Geo CD has no lockout hardware or special discs or anything.  There's your path to NG homebrew!

[Tatsujin]

Hehe, this isn't much more far from emulating.

Like playing PCE games on the Turbo Everdrive.

Not the same. The experience of playing roms on the TED (or many other flash carts) is identical to playing the original hucards.

The unaltered games on that MVS multi-cart are identical to playing the original carts.

Exactly.  (Well, the earliest Neo-Geo games on multicarts have samples missing, but are otherwise identical.)

Especially if it encouraged Neo Geo homebrew.

The Neo-Geo CD has no lockout hardware or special discs or anything.  There's your path to NG homebrew!

but.. it's the NGCD

[ccovell]

Oh, dear, I smell some Neo-Geo AES snobbery here...

Games such as Fatal Fury and Last Resort load the whole game from CD in a single pass.  If you're making homebrew that's better than FF and LR, then I suppose you have the right to put it exclusively on a cartridge and charge $300 $730 for it...

[CrackTiger]

I meant literally if it would encourage homebrew projects, not just make them possible. As far as I know,  there isn't a lot of NGCD homebrew. And by homebrew I meant misc projects, not just full games made to be sold.

[kazumn]

I'm i the only one feeling robbed by Tommo?

[Mishran]

I'm i the only one feeling robbed by Tommo?

No, a whole bunch of idiots over on the NG forums are bitching too. While I feel that things could have been done better, I don't see reason to complain. I still get use out of mine and don't feel the cheapness that most seem to with it. But in an age where people feel the need to RGB mod the older systems to make them "enjoyable" again, whiners are expected. I still play my classics over RF and still get plenty of enjoyment from them. People are too damn spoiled nowadays.

[Opethian]

Blame pipes with his crusade to respond to any comment about the NGX.

Sure the unit is a piece of shit but no need to carry on the bitch fest...

[jperryss]

No, a whole bunch of idiots over on the NG forums are bitching too. While I feel that things could have been done better, I don't see reason to complain. I still get use out of mine and don't feel the cheapness that most seem to with it. But in an age where people feel the need to RGB mod the older systems to make them "enjoyable" again, whiners are expected. I still play my classics over RF and still get plenty of enjoyment from them. People are too damn spoiled nowadays.

In the gaming world, there is a direct relationship between the cost of entry for a particular system and the amount of snobbery demonstrated by that system's fanbase.

[Mishran]

How does that explain the need to mod an NES, Genesis, or Turbo Duo to display crystal clear images on par to a PS3? I still don't understand it. RF and AV are just plain blesphemy. Don't get me wrong, to each his own, but to refuse to play one unless the damn thing is displaying RGB??? Come on...

[EvilEvoIX]

Oh, dear, I smell some Neo-Geo AES snobbery here...

Games such as Fatal Fury and Last Resort load the whole game from CD in a single pass.  If you're making homebrew that's better than FF and LR, then I suppose you have the right to put it exclusively on a cartridge and charge $300 $730 for it...

Ever Try to play KOF 1999 on a Neo Geo CD?  Notice smaller sprites with frames of Animation missing on AOF3?  Games from 1995 and earlier worked well, but even SS2 has too much loading for my taste.  The CDZ really helped out but I sold mine a while back.  The Rearranged music really helped out however and then there is Power Spikes II which makes anyone want a Neo CD ;)

[rtyper]

posted by EvilEvoIX

Ever Try to play KOF 1999 on a Neo Geo CD?

Ever try playing games from an audio cassette/diskette that takes 30 mins to load approx 64k
AND if it's a multiload still has to load the next levels as well?
Speaking as a supporter of the AES on release, spending £400 on the system and £200 per game the 'AES snobbery' is a delusion among many of the Neo-Geo collectors. The vast majority of the games are mediocre at best. It wasn't until the KOF series and Slugs kicked off that the machine actually had some gameplay to match its gfx and sound as a home console.
If you never had an AES you didn't miss much.

[EvilEvoIX]

posted by EvilEvoIX

Ever Try to play KOF 1999 on a Neo Geo CD?

Ever try playing games from an audio cassette/diskette that takes 30 mins to load approx 64k
AND if it's a multiload still has to load the next levels as well?
Speaking as a supporter of the AES on release, spending £400 on the system and £200 per game the 'AES snobbery' is a delusion among many of the Neo-Geo collectors. The vast majority of the games are mediocre at best. It wasn't until the KOF series and Slugs kicked off that the machine actually had some gameplay to match its gfx and sound as a home console.
If you never had an AES you didn't miss much.

There are some stinkers on the console for sure but not missing much is crazy.  Many of the games from 1990-1995 where quite epic although in arcade flavor only.  There wasn't really any console gaming style.

From 1990 to 1995 you had:

Aero Fighters 2
Aero Fighters 3
Andro Dunos
AOF 1-2
Baseball Stars 2
Bomberman: Panic Bomber
Far East of Eden: Kabuki Klash
Fatal Fury 1-2-3-Special
Goal! Goal! Goal! was REALLY GOOD
KOF 94-95
SS1-2-3. 3 is really amazing and 2 is my favorite game
King of the Monster Series
Last Resort is a beast
Mutation Nation
Pulstar 1995 was an amazing game.
Puzzle Bobble
Real Bout Fatal Fury had amazing grafx and fighting
Savage Reign
Spinmaster
Super Sidekicks Series an epic soccer arcade game, really good.
Top Hunter: Roddy & Cathy
Viewpoint
Windjammers
World Hereos Series

All before 1995, 1996 came Metal Slug.  This system was Niche and I get that, but staying all games stunk before 1995 is short sighted to say the least.

[rtyper]

Your list is interesting, especially as I have most of these on CD or have owned/played them on AES.

I think your definition of "quite epic" differs somewhat from my own.
 
I didn't say "all games stunk before 1995"
If you re-read my post I believe it said "The vast majority of the games are mediocre at best". Meaning that they were dull, second-rate, uninspiring and inferior - as the term implies in a  thesaurus and "If you never had an AES you didn't miss much".
There is a big difference.

Posted by rtyper

It wasn't until the KOF series and Slugs kicked off that the machine actually had some gameplay to match its gfx and sound as a home console.

Note the bold type.

The "Bigger, Badder, Better" AES was saturated with sub-par Final Fight and StreetFighter2 knockoffs. Whilst the shmups and action games were disappointingly few in quantity, the 16bitters had the far better selection.
The only ones on your list I would consider "quite epic" are a couple of the KOFs, SSs and Viewpoint.
You have to realise that 16bit consoles of that era "1990-1995" were home to games that far surpassed the gameplay of similar releases that the AES was throwing out whatever the genre. Discounting the AES graphical superiority (?) and its over reliance on fighting games even a 100% neo-fanatic would be crazy to deny this.

It would be interesting to make a like comparison to the games on your list, bar the fighters, although quality ports of arcade and AES fighters appeared on PCE and MCD, Fatal Fury, AOF and Final Fight to name a few. Titles developed specifically  for the systems, Bare Knuckle etc easily outpaced these. If you would like me to compile a similar list of truly "quite epic" 16bit games let me know.
I'm sure readers would understand how little they missed.

[EvilEvoIX]

Your list is interesting, especially as I have most of these on CD or have owned/played them on AES.

I think your definition of "quite epic" differs somewhat from my own.
 
I didn't say "all games stunk before 1995"
If you re-read my post I believe it said "The vast majority of the games are mediocre at best". Meaning that they were dull, second-rate, uninspiring and inferior - as the term implies in a  thesaurus and "If you never had an AES you didn't miss much".
There is a big difference.

Posted by rtyper

It wasn't until the KOF series and Slugs kicked off that the machine actually had some gameplay to match its gfx and sound as a home console.

Note the bold type.

The "Bigger, Badder, Better" AES was saturated with sub-par Final Fight and StreetFighter2 knockoffs. Whilst the shmups and action games were disappointingly few in quantity, the 16bitters had the far better selection.
The only ones on your list I would consider "quite epic" are a couple of the KOFs, SSs and Viewpoint.
You have to realise that 16bit consoles of that era "1990-1995" were home to games that far surpassed the gameplay of similar releases that the AES was throwing out whatever the genre. Discounting the AES graphical superiority (?) and its over reliance on fighting games even a 100% neo-fanatic would be crazy to deny this.

It would be interesting to make a like comparison to the games on your list, bar the fighters, although quality ports of arcade and AES fighters appeared on PCE and MCD, Fatal Fury, AOF and Final Fight to name a few. Titles developed specifically  for the systems, Bare Knuckle etc easily outpaced these. If you would like me to compile a similar list of truly "quite epic" 16bit games let me know.
I'm sure readers would understand how little they missed.

Samurai Showdown was hardly a Street Fighter Knockoff.  However the Neo was hampered by Arcade style gaming and you must be a fan of that style to enjoy the system and of course fighting games as well.

[CrackTiger]

Your list is interesting, especially as I have most of these on CD or have owned/played them on AES.

I think your definition of "quite epic" differs somewhat from my own.
 
I didn't say "all games stunk before 1995"
If you re-read my post I believe it said "The vast majority of the games are mediocre at best". Meaning that they were dull, second-rate, uninspiring and inferior - as the term implies in a  thesaurus and "If you never had an AES you didn't miss much".
There is a big difference.

Posted by rtyper

It wasn't until the KOF series and Slugs kicked off that the machine actually had some gameplay to match its gfx and sound as a home console.

Note the bold type.

The "Bigger, Badder, Better" AES was saturated with sub-par Final Fight and StreetFighter2 knockoffs. Whilst the shmups and action games were disappointingly few in quantity, the 16bitters had the far better selection.
The only ones on your list I would consider "quite epic" are a couple of the KOFs, SSs and Viewpoint.
You have to realise that 16bit consoles of that era "1990-1995" were home to games that far surpassed the gameplay of similar releases that the AES was throwing out whatever the genre. Discounting the AES graphical superiority (?) and its over reliance on fighting games even a 100% neo-fanatic would be crazy to deny this.

It would be interesting to make a like comparison to the games on your list, bar the fighters, although quality ports of arcade and AES fighters appeared on PCE and MCD, Fatal Fury, AOF and Final Fight to name a few. Titles developed specifically  for the systems, Bare Knuckle etc easily outpaced these. If you would like me to compile a similar list of truly "quite epic" 16bit games let me know.
I'm sure readers would understand how little they missed.

Samurai Showdown was hardly a Street Fighter Knockoff.  However the Neo was hampered by Arcade style gaming and you must be a fan of that style to enjoy the system and of course fighting games as well.

I know you believe that it was "ground breaking", but yes, it is just another SFII clone and less ground breaking or innovative for the genre than so many other games. This doesn't mean it's bad, it certainly was the best first entry of the early Neo fighters, but compared to everything before SFII, it's still just another SFII-inspired game. The Virtua Fighter series introducing 60fps animation and gameplay was a big evolution for the genre, but again it's still just another game aping SFII.

[whisper2053]

Samurai Showdown was hardly a Street Fighter Knockoff.  However the Neo was hampered by Arcade style gaming and you must be a fan of that style to enjoy the system and of course fighting games as well.

I wouldn't say that 'hampered' was quite the right word to use there. That's almost like saying that the PCE was 'hampered' by shooters, which as a statement is quite absurd. Being functionally good at performing a specific task should not be considered to be a problem. The Neo was good at doing certain things that the consoles weren't (and to be fair, the reverse is also VERY true).

The common gamer/consumer (back then) had no desire to drop $70 or so on a title that in its entirety would last 30-40 minutes beginning to end. The whole point of arcade gaming was as a quick fix entertainment quarter/yen/whatever catcher. The '3 minutes', as it is described in the 100yen documentary. That form of software just didn't mesh well with what (most) people were wanting for home play. Not to say that it's bad, per se, just different.

[EvilEvoIX]

Your list is interesting, especially as I have most of these on CD or have owned/played them on AES.

I think your definition of "quite epic" differs somewhat from my own.
 
I didn't say "all games stunk before 1995"
If you re-read my post I believe it said "The vast majority of the games are mediocre at best". Meaning that they were dull, second-rate, uninspiring and inferior - as the term implies in a  thesaurus and "If you never had an AES you didn't miss much".
There is a big difference.

Posted by rtyper

It wasn't until the KOF series and Slugs kicked off that the machine actually had some gameplay to match its gfx and sound as a home console.

Note the bold type.

The "Bigger, Badder, Better" AES was saturated with sub-par Final Fight and StreetFighter2 knockoffs. Whilst the shmups and action games were disappointingly few in quantity, the 16bitters had the far better selection.
The only ones on your list I would consider "quite epic" are a couple of the KOFs, SSs and Viewpoint.
You have to realise that 16bit consoles of that era "1990-1995" were home to games that far surpassed the gameplay of similar releases that the AES was throwing out whatever the genre. Discounting the AES graphical superiority (?) and its over reliance on fighting games even a 100% neo-fanatic would be crazy to deny this.

It would be interesting to make a like comparison to the games on your list, bar the fighters, although quality ports of arcade and AES fighters appeared on PCE and MCD, Fatal Fury, AOF and Final Fight to name a few. Titles developed specifically  for the systems, Bare Knuckle etc easily outpaced these. If you would like me to compile a similar list of truly "quite epic" 16bit games let me know.
I'm sure readers would understand how little they missed.

Samurai Showdown was hardly a Street Fighter Knockoff.  However the Neo was hampered by Arcade style gaming and you must be a fan of that style to enjoy the system and of course fighting games as well.

I know you believe that it was "ground breaking", but yes, it is just another SFII clone and less ground breaking or innovative for the genre than so many other games. This doesn't mean it's bad, it certainly was the best first entry of the early Neo fighters, but compared to everything before SFII, it's still just another SFII-inspired game. The Virtua Fighter series introducing 60fps animation and gameplay was a big evolution for the genre, but again it's still just another game aping SFII.

I just don't see SNK as a complete ripoff and run at SFII.  If anything World Heroes is nothing but rippoffs but is very tongue in cheek.  The System is extremely successful lasting from 1990 to 2004 and the bulk of that being arcade income so it's hard to criticize such success.  That said the system is an Arcade system with arcade games, you either like them or you don't.  It has amazing shooters, legendary fighting, INHO the best in the Business Run and Gun, and some weird one off style of arcade games.  It's nothing but a huge staple in the gaming industry of it's time.

If you play the Samurai Shodown series you will see it plays and looks nothing like Street Fighter, the weapon system alone changes the way the game plays entirely.

[CrackTiger]

Your list is interesting, especially as I have most of these on CD or have owned/played them on AES.

I think your definition of "quite epic" differs somewhat from my own.
 
I didn't say "all games stunk before 1995"
If you re-read my post I believe it said "The vast majority of the games are mediocre at best". Meaning that they were dull, second-rate, uninspiring and inferior - as the term implies in a  thesaurus and "If you never had an AES you didn't miss much".
There is a big difference.

Posted by rtyper

It wasn't until the KOF series and Slugs kicked off that the machine actually had some gameplay to match its gfx and sound as a home console.

Note the bold type.

The "Bigger, Badder, Better" AES was saturated with sub-par Final Fight and StreetFighter2 knockoffs. Whilst the shmups and action games were disappointingly few in quantity, the 16bitters had the far better selection.
The only ones on your list I would consider "quite epic" are a couple of the KOFs, SSs and Viewpoint.
You have to realise that 16bit consoles of that era "1990-1995" were home to games that far surpassed the gameplay of similar releases that the AES was throwing out whatever the genre. Discounting the AES graphical superiority (?) and its over reliance on fighting games even a 100% neo-fanatic would be crazy to deny this.

It would be interesting to make a like comparison to the games on your list, bar the fighters, although quality ports of arcade and AES fighters appeared on PCE and MCD, Fatal Fury, AOF and Final Fight to name a few. Titles developed specifically  for the systems, Bare Knuckle etc easily outpaced these. If you would like me to compile a similar list of truly "quite epic" 16bit games let me know.
I'm sure readers would understand how little they missed.

Samurai Showdown was hardly a Street Fighter Knockoff.  However the Neo was hampered by Arcade style gaming and you must be a fan of that style to enjoy the system and of course fighting games as well.

I know you believe that it was "ground breaking", but yes, it is just another SFII clone and less ground breaking or innovative for the genre than so many other games. This doesn't mean it's bad, it certainly was the best first entry of the early Neo fighters, but compared to everything before SFII, it's still just another SFII-inspired game. The Virtua Fighter series introducing 60fps animation and gameplay was a big evolution for the genre, but again it's still just another game aping SFII.

I just don't see SNK as a complete ripoff and run at SFII.  If anything World Heroes is nothing but rippoffs but is very tongue in cheek.  The System is extremely successful lasting from 1990 to 2004 and the bulk of that being arcade income so it's hard to criticize such success.  That said the system is an Arcade system with arcade games, you either like them or you don't.  It has amazing shooters, legendary fighting, INHO the best in the Business Run and Gun, and some weird one off style of arcade games.  It's nothing but a huge staple in the gaming industry of it's time.

If you play the Samurai Shodown series you will see it plays and looks nothing like Street Fighter, the weapon system alone changes the way the game plays entirely. 

The problem is that you look at the street fighting game genre as a given and take for granted everything built around the SFII formula. Even the things from the first Street Fighter that SFII carries over aren't influencing everything after SFII, only SFII itself is. SNK actually hired every Street Fighter II team member they could to pump out variations on SFII for Neo Geo.

Samurai Spirits has some cool aspects that helped it stand apart from the other early SFII-cash-in games and influenced some other games which also never went full mainstream. But in the overall genre it isn't very original and therefore not really groundbreaking. Weaponlord is a much more groundbreaking weapons-involving fighter.

So how does Samurai Spirits "look nothing like" SFII and other street fighting games? The "weapon system" isn't very unique or complicated, coming after Time Killers. A game when compared to, really highlights SS's typical SFII movement, combos, progression, design, etc.

[geise]

I am crazy cause I actually liked Martial Champion more than SF2 back in the day.

[PCEngineHell]

The problem is that you look at the street fighting game genre as a given and take for granted everything built around the SFII formula. Even the things from the first Street Fighter that SFII carries over aren't influencing everything after SFII, only SFII itself is. SNK actually hired every Street Fighter II team member they could to pump out variations on SFII for Neo Geo.

Samurai Spirits has some cool aspects that helped it stand apart from the other early SFII-cash-in games and influenced some other games which also never went full mainstream. But in the overall genre it isn't very original and therefore not really groundbreaking. Weaponlord is a much more groundbreaking weapons-involving fighter.

So how does Samurai Spirits "look nothing like" SFII and other street fighting games? The "weapon system" isn't very unique or complicated, coming after Time Killers. A game when compared to, really highlights SS's typical SFII movement, combos, progression, design, etc.

I'm not going to go full blown into debate mode here concerning everything you have said but I do want to make a few points.

1. Virtua Fighter plays and looks nothing like Street Fighter 1 or 2. There are no fireballs or other imaginary mystical type of attacks involved in the game outside of the magical 10 second 2 story jumps. Otherwise the gameplay mimics realistic hand to hand combat. No dizzies, no blood, etc either. If it draws inspiration from anything, it would be Karate Champ, though maybe 9 years late. Cashing in on the Street Fighter craze? Hardly.

2. Fighting games were popular before Street Fighter 2. They had always been good money makers in the arcade scene, whether it was a standard fare beat'em up like Double Dragon, Final Fight, or Ninja Gaiden, or something along the lines of Violence Fight, Pit Fighter, and Street Smart which were more one on one. Granted, Street Fighter 2 was a hit game and very popular.

If it had not come out though it would have had no impact on SNK's ealier fighting game development, as it was already on course as is prior to SF2's release. SNK already had plans set in motion. After SF2 they built on those plans and expanded them, but as is, they already knew what they had in mind when they developed the system with a 4 button control scheme prior to SF2.

3.  Takashi Nishiyama and Hiroshi Matsumoto are the Capcom employees who originally left Capcom to go work for SNK. They did this a bit after working on Street Fighter 1. They had nothing to do with Street Fighter 2, and the development of Fatal Fury was taking place during the development of the Neo Geo MVS/AES, prior to the release of Street Fighter 2. Art of Fighting was developed right after they finished developing Fatal Fury 1, still prior to SF2 becoming a huge hit.

AOF was released in 1992. It wasn't just some 6 month rush job to cash in on SF2. No SNK fighter was, and most every SNK fighter brought far more inovation to the table concerning borrowing from and improving upon the gameplay from SF1 then Street Fighter 2 ever did.

Neither game was rushed out the door to copy nor cash in on SF 2, and neither franchise share the same control scheme or combo system SF2 used, let alone story development (Fatal Fury and AOF's plot are both far more mature themed and more developed as shown during gameplay story scenes).

The only thing they borrow from Street Fighter anything is Street Fighter 1 on the special move motions, which I mean hey, they have that right I suppose, since they were developed by the guys who originally came up with it. Capcom later lost more employees, but supposedly it was due to staff being tired of rehashing SF2 in updates.

4. Pretty much any fighting game developed by SNK after AOF and Fatal Fury 1 tended to avoid copying Street Fighter 2 all together (No comment on Data East or other developers who borrowed from both SNK and Capcom). The few that do directly borrow control schemes from Street Fighter 1, which started the whole light/med/strong attack and special move system are like Fatal Fury 2/Special, and Samurai Showdown 1 and 2 (3-5 came up with new control schemes), and the KOF series.

Street Fighter 2 is just as guilty as any of them since developed under a different staff it borrowed from/copies gameplay from SF1. Honestly outside of better/smoother controls and more interesting characters and visuals, and the ability to dizzy your opponent, Street Fighter 2 hardly innovates at all from SF1.

5. On the topic of Time Killers. Time Killers in no way borrows from Street Fighter 2 in character design, control scheme, plot, visuals, nor audio. Time Killers presented a very mature/brutal fighting theme involving dismemberment. For its credit, the game did not copy off of Mortal Kombat neither. Time Killers was developed and released around the same time as MK. Time Killers control scheme involves the direct use of the left and right limbs and head. Pressing both arm or leg buttons results in added attacks that use both limbs.

Also worth noting. Visually, on a technical level, and though many wont agree due to personal preference of Japanese versus American style artwork, Time Killers also visually surpasses most games released during its time period due to its 32-bit visuals (Large characters, vivid higher resolution graphics). The hardware also used an advanced sound chip by Ensoniq, who made the Ensoniq Soundscape audio card. Spec wise CPS-1 couldn't not keep up with Strata's hardware. This same hardware powered Blood Storm and Street Fighter :The movie (the arcade ver., not the shit home version)

6. If Samurai Showdown borrows from anything besides Street Fighter 1, it would be Time Killers and also Blandia (the sequel to Gladiator from 1986).

[EvilEvoIX]

The problem is that you look at the street fighting game genre as a given and take for granted everything built around the SFII formula. Even the things from the first Street Fighter that SFII carries over aren't influencing everything after SFII, only SFII itself is. SNK actually hired every Street Fighter II team member they could to pump out variations on SFII for Neo Geo.

Samurai Spirits has some cool aspects that helped it stand apart from the other early SFII-cash-in games and influenced some other games which also never went full mainstream. But in the overall genre it isn't very original and therefore not really groundbreaking. Weaponlord is a much more groundbreaking weapons-involving fighter.

So how does Samurai Spirits "look nothing like" SFII and other street fighting games? The "weapon system" isn't very unique or complicated, coming after Time Killers. A game when compared to, really highlights SS's typical SFII movement, combos, progression, design, etc.

I'm not going to go full blown into debate mode here concerning everything you have said but I do want to make a few points.

1. Virtua Fighter plays and looks nothing like Street Fighter 1 or 2. There are no fireballs or other imaginary mystical type of attacks involved in the game outside of the magical 10 second 2 story jumps. Otherwise the gameplay mimics realistic hand to hand combat. No dizzies, no blood, etc either. If it draws inspiration from anything, it would be Karate Champ, though maybe 9 years late. Cashing in on the Street Fighter craze? Hardly.

2. Fighting games were popular before Street Fighter 2. They had always been good money makers in the arcade scene, whether it was a standard fare beat'em up like Double Dragon, Final Fight, or Ninja Gaiden, or something along the lines of Violence Fight, Pit Fighter, and Street Smart which were more one on one. Granted, Street Fighter 2 was a hit game and very popular.

If it had not come out though it would have had no impact on SNK's ealier fighting game development, as it was already on course as is prior to SF2's release. SNK already had plans set in motion. After SF2 they built on those plans and expanded them, but as is, they already knew what they had in mind when they developed the system with a 4 button control scheme prior to SF2.

3.  Takashi Nishiyama and Hiroshi Matsumoto are the Capcom employees who originally left Capcom to go work for SNK. They did this a bit after working on Street Fighter 1. They had nothing to do with Street Fighter 2, and the development of Fatal Fury was taking place during the development of the Neo Geo MVS/AES, prior to the release of Street Fighter 2. Art of Fighting was developed right after they finished developing Fatal Fury 1, still prior to SF2 becoming a huge hit.

AOF was released in 1992. It wasn't just some 6 month rush job to cash in on SF2. No SNK fighter was, and most every SNK fighter brought far more inovation to the table concerning borrowing from and improving upon the gameplay from SF1 then Street Fighter 2 ever did.

Neither game was rushed out the door to copy nor cash in on SF 2, and neither franchise share the same control scheme or combo system SF2 used, let alone story development (Fatal Fury and AOF's plot are both far more mature themed and more developed as shown during gameplay story scenes).

The only thing they borrow from Street Fighter anything is Street Fighter 1 on the special move motions, which I mean hey, they have that right I suppose, since they were developed by the guys who originally came up with it. Capcom later lost more employees, but supposedly it was due to staff being tired of rehashing SF2 in updates.

4. Pretty much any fighting game developed by SNK after AOF and Fatal Fury 1 tended to avoid copying Street Fighter 2 all together (No comment on Data East or other developers who borrowed from both SNK and Capcom). The few that do directly borrow control schemes from Street Fighter 1, which started the whole light/med/strong attack and special move system are like Fatal Fury 2/Special, and Samurai Showdown 1 and 2 (3-5 came up with new control schemes), and the KOF series.

Street Fighter 2 is just as guilty as any of them since developed under a different staff it borrowed from/copies gameplay from SF1. Honestly outside of better/smoother controls and more interesting characters and visuals, and the ability to dizzy your opponent, Street Fighter 2 hardly innovates at all from SF1.

5. On the topic of Time Killers. Time Killers in no way borrows from Street Fighter 2 in character design, control scheme, plot, visuals, nor audio. Time Killers presented a very mature/brutal fighting theme involving dismemberment. For its credit, the game did not copy off of Mortal Kombat neither. Time Killers was developed and released around the same time as MK. Time Killers control scheme involves the direct use of the left and right limbs and head. Pressing both arm or leg buttons results in added attacks that use both limbs.

Also worth noting. Visually, on a technical level, and though many wont agree due to personal preference of Japanese versus American style artwork, Time Killers also visually surpasses most games released during its time period due to its 32-bit visuals (Large characters, vivid higher resolution graphics). The hardware also used an advanced sound chip by Ensoniq, who made the Ensoniq Soundscape audio card. Spec wise CPS-1 couldn't not keep up with Strata's hardware. This same hardware powered Blood Storm and Street Fighter :The movie (the arcade ver., not the shit home version)

6. If Samurai Showdown borrows from anything besides Street Fighter 1, it would be Time Killers and also Blandia (the sequel to Gladiator from 1986).

Amazing post, I still can't believe how many people think SFII was the original fighter and everything ripped it off.  It's just another genre in the video game world such as shooters or racing or any other characters. 


Going back to SFII and Samurai Showdown the game mechanics, style, and fighting tactics are completely different.  It is quite an original game, AOF 1-2 further deviates from the norm on the fighting engine alone, completely different.  But that's what the games are here for go play them
And see, it's always fun to try a new style especially if you have preconceived notions about them, you will be surprised.