MD considered the better shmups console than PCE?

[Tatsujin]

http://www.sega-16.com/2005/10/genre-spotlight-shmups-extravaganza/

You cannot, however, deny that the early '90s was a shmupper's paradise on the system and no other console of the time (save perhaps the PC-Engine) came close to matching the incredible library the Genesis was home to.

perhaps? PERHAPS? O N L Y  P E R H A P S ???

beside of that, there was only the SNES left in competition, on which we all agree was no real competition to both the PCE and MD.

[roflmao]

The reviewer apparently didn't look into PCE shmups when he wrote this article. Sad.

[Tatsujin]

but he did at some times, even praises the PCE lords of thunder way over the MCD one.

[CrackTiger]

As with all write ups, you have to take the author into consideration.

During another old article (earlier that same year), comparing HuCard Dungeon Explorer to Sega-CD Dungeon Explorer, he gave the edge to the Sega software for reasons like this:

Where the Sega CD blows the Turbo out of the water here is via its support of s-video. If you're lucky enough to have a Genesis modded for such output, there is simply no comparison. The quality of the visuals is so much better than through the Turbo's RF or composite cable that it's an easy choice.

During the conclusion, this point is made:

It's unfair to compare the HuCard version by a CD rendition that arrived almost five years later.

Then why are you not comparing it to the CD game Dungeon Explorer II?


The problem with most comparison and review articles and such, is when the author doesn't state how unfamiliar or unqualified they may be to judge certain aspects. The typical unquantified dismissal of rival console games, more or less just saying "this doesn't even compare!" isn't such a credibility killer when someone is honest about not having played through a game or not really having a clue about what games another console really has. Just stating random crap as fact undermines any bias you're trying to push for your favorite console/game/etc.

It can totally be argued that either the MD/MCD or PCE has a better shooter catalog for particular tastes. I've played through most of them and still don't feel qualified to make the call with distinctions (but I do feel that PCE shooters would be more popular amongst users of the term "shmup" for superficial reasons).

That particular article though quickly reveals how unfamiliar the author is with the PC Engine versions of games, usually saying something to the effect of "sure the PCE CD version has better music..." But that's not always the case and what really separates them (like the co-op mode in Hellfire) rarely gets mentioned. So it's safe to say that at the time he wasn't aware of half the shooters for PCE, only that there's a lot of them. I'm sure he'd still favor the Sega library if he was forced to try everything for both consoles, but the facepalms are kind of a disclaimer themselves, like this nugget:

FACT: Forgotten Worlds was also released for the Turbo Duo. It featured better graphics, all the levels from the arcade, and a great soundtrack but lacked the two-player option and suffered from horrible gameplay with the stock Duo pad. Nec Avenue remedied this by releasing an excellent controller for it in Japan but U.S. gamers were once again left out in the cold.

I personally prefer the Genesis version, as the gameplay is much better and the two-player option maintains more of the arcade original's feel. Not convinced? Read our review and decide for yourself.

"Only the Genesis's stock pad brings the arcade's 2-button rotation system home! Those couple extra millimetres on the left absolutely kill the gameplay using the stock Duo Pad!"

Too bad the two-player option didn't maintain more of the arcade original feel for Hellfire.



I've been hoping over the years that he would update that article after becoming more familiar with 16-bit shooters overall. His later articles improved a hell of a lot in general.

[Arkhan Asylum]

SHUMPS.

[Joe Redifer]

I like more of the shooty shmups shumps on the Genny than on the Turby. I mean the Pee See Engine has some great ones like Lords of Thunder, Gate of Thunder and a few others but most are pretty much average. The Meega Derive has Thunder Force 2 which I'd take in an instant over Psychosis, Thunder Force three which is one of my favorite shooties and Thunder Force four which is oh my god teh bomb. It also has GuyAres which is super sweet and MUSHA which is really cool way better than Blazin' Lazers. It also has... well shit. OK OK I guess it's a tie. To me at least. I can accept an argument either way.

And they will forever be "shooters" to me. No other type of game can lay claim to that genre.

[Tatsujin]

SHUMPS.

I say it only ONCE and get instant hanged for

[Tatsujin]

As with all write ups, you have to take the author into consideration.

During another old article (earlier that same year), comparing HuCard Dungeon Explorer to Sega-CD Dungeon Explorer, he gave the edge to the Sega software for reasons like this:

Where the Sega CD blows the Turbo out of the water here is via its support of s-video. If you're lucky enough to have a Genesis modded for such output, there is simply no comparison. The quality of the visuals is so much better than through the Turbo's RF or composite cable that it's an easy choice.

HAHAHA. that was.. was..HILARIOUST

[Psycho Punch]

In my language we have a way better representative term for the genre: Jogos de Navinha. Too bad that the term doesn't make the transition to english very well haha, I guess you'll all have to settle for SHMUMP SHUMP SPUMH SMPUH PSHUP (or use the term "Shooter" and confuse pre-teen Call of Duty players).

[esteban]

I enjoy MegaDrive and PCE shrimp-em-pups.

I wish there were MOAR of them on both.

I wouldn't choose one console over another.

[CrackTiger]

Any First Person Perspective Shooter that has a campaign mode is an Adventure game, because you go on an adventure.

Any First Person Perspective Shooter that has any kind of multiplayer mode is a Party game.

All "First Person Shooters" cannot have ay kind of co-op or objective based gameplay, because you're literally supposed to shoot the first person you see.

[Tatsujin]

I usually just call 'em shewties.

[Tatsujin]

I enjoy MegaDrive and PCE shrimp-em-pups.

I wish there were MOAR of them on both.

I wouldn't choose one console over another.

you don't have all of 'em, yet you already wish more of 'em? haha

[esteban]

I enjoy MegaDrive and PCE shrimp-em-pups.

I wish there were MOAR of them on both.

I wouldn't choose one console over another.

you don't have all of 'em, yet you already wish more of 'em? haha

Knowing that a finite number of SHUMPS have been created between 1975-1995 has made me sad. When I was a kid, they seemed like an unlimited resource that I could never, ever exhaust.

As an old bastard, though, I keeps crossing off titles from my "never played before" list.

[PCEngineHell]

/whynotboth_zps669e3b7d.gif

There, problem solved.

[Tatsujin]

hey, sure I do play both

that was never the question here.

[Emerald Rocker]

This topic confuses me.  I thought everyone knew and accepted that MD is the better shooter system?

I mean, just compare:
1. Super Star Soldier versus MUSHA == MUSHA wins easily.  If you want to make it even more unfair, there was Robo Aleste on the Sega CD.  Sega really benefitted by having Compile making shooters for their system, something PCE lacked.

2. Deep Blue versus Sagaia (aka Darius 2) == If you're gonna play a shooter with fish in it, you should be playing a Darius game.  Sagaia isn't the best Darius game out there, but it's far better than the universally-reviled Deep Blue.

3. Jimmu Denshou versus Sol Deace == Since it's a Space Harrier type game, Jimmu Denshou doesn't even count as a real shooter (PS, Burning Force on MD is better).  The reason this comparison is relevant is because both Jimmu Denshou and Sol Feace were made by Wolf Team.  They released their classic shmup Sol Deace for MD, no doubt because they realized it's the superior shooter system.

4. Lords of Thunder Turbo versus Lords of Thunder Sega CD == Sega CD wins, primarily by virtue of having the better music.  Less screeching from guitars and more resonance from power chords.  This is kind of unfair comparison because the Sega CD port was made later, after Hudson realized via 20/20 hindsight how much they had screwed up the music in the original version.

5. And the MOST TELLING COMPARISON of all comes from the devs at Renovation Game.  For the PCE, they created Legion -- an awful game full of flicker, chunky graphics, and nonsensical over-the-action narration.  The game is a clown show.  Whereas on the Genesis, the same team gave us Gaiares -- one of the most incredible shooters of the 16-bit era.

[geise]

Yet it doesn't have GO! GO! バーディーチャンス so PC-E wins as the better all around system.

[Otaking]

I thought everyone knew and accepted that MD is the better shooter system?

I can't tell are you joking or are you serious?

[whisper2053]

2. Deep Blue versus Sagaia (aka Darius 2) == If you're gonna play a shooter with fish in it, you should be playing a Darius game.  Sagaia isn't the best Darius game out there, but it's far better than the universally-reviled Deep Blue.

I am extraordinarily curious why you used these two in your comparison, when Super Darius II is standing over there in the corner glaring daggers at you...

[CrackTiger]

I am extraordinarily curious if whisper2053 and HardcoreOtaku are joking or serious that "Sega really benefitted by having Compile making shooters for their system, something PCE lacked." wasn't enough of a giveaway.

[whisper2053]

I don't pay attention to company names. Or actor names, band names, or whatever else...my memory's fuzzy enough that they leak through like a sieve anyway. I just play the games I like...all the nonsense under where it says "Press Start/Run" doesn't mean much to me. Apologies for not having an encyclopedic knowledge of who does what and therefore not recognizing the 'giveaway'. Back to quietly reading and not speaking, I guess.

[PCEngineHell]

Lol Jimmu Denshou, such a fucking terrible game. It is kinda ironic that certain development teams could make sub-par to average, and at times real garbage on the PCE, and shine on the X68000 or Genesis/Mega Drive. And Legion really is a poor shooter (on par with Curse on MD), but those voice intros in each stage, man they are just hilarious and make the game worth playing.

[esteban]

JIMMU DENSHOU!

[geise]

I don't blieve I've played Jimmu Denshou.

[turbokon]

This topic confuses me.  I thought everyone knew and accepted that MD is the better shooter system?

I mean, just compare:
1. Super Star Soldier versus MUSHA == MUSHA wins easily.  If you want to make it even more unfair, there was Robo Aleste on the Sega CD.  Sega really benefitted by having Compile making shooters for their system, something PCE lacked.

2. Deep Blue versus Sagaia (aka Darius 2) == If you're gonna play a shooter with fish in it, you should be playing a Darius game.  Sagaia isn't the best Darius game out there, but it's far better than the universally-reviled Deep Blue.

3. Jimmu Denshou versus Sol Deace == Since it's a Space Harrier type game, Jimmu Denshou doesn't even count as a real shooter (PS, Burning Force on MD is better).  The reason this comparison is relevant is because both Jimmu Denshou and Sol Feace were made by Wolf Team.  They released their classic shmup Sol Deace for MD, no doubt because they realized it's the superior shooter system.

4. Lords of Thunder Turbo versus Lords of Thunder Sega CD == Sega CD wins, primarily by virtue of having the better music.  Less screeching from guitars and more resonance from power chords.  This is kind of unfair comparison because the Sega CD port was made later, after Hudson realized via 20/20 hindsight how much they had screwed up the music in the original version.

5. And the MOST TELLING COMPARISON of all comes from the devs at Renovation Game.  For the PCE, they created Legion -- an awful game full of flicker, chunky graphics, and nonsensical over-the-action narration.  The game is a clown show.  Whereas on the Genesis, the same team gave us Gaiares -- one of the most incredible shooters of the 16-bit era.

Number 4 had me Rollin, you high?  I heard and seen the sega cd, doesn't even compare.

Number 1 - different type of shooters.  Compare Musha/Robo Aleste to Spriggan.

[geise]

It's fighting street.  He's just starting shit

[Tatsujin]

This topic confuses me.  I thought everyone knew and accepted that MD is the better shooter system?

I mean, just compare:
1. Super Star Soldier versus MUSHA == MUSHA wins easily.  If you want to make it even more unfair, there was Robo Aleste on the Sega CD.  Sega really benefitted by having Compile making shooters for their system, something PCE lacked.

2. Deep Blue versus Sagaia (aka Darius 2) == If you're gonna play a shooter with fish in it, you should be playing a Darius game.  Sagaia isn't the best Darius game out there, but it's far better than the universally-reviled Deep Blue.

3. Jimmu Denshou versus Sol Deace == Since it's a Space Harrier type game, Jimmu Denshou doesn't even count as a real shooter (PS, Burning Force on MD is better).  The reason this comparison is relevant is because both Jimmu Denshou and Sol Feace were made by Wolf Team.  They released their classic shmup Sol Deace for MD, no doubt because they realized it's the superior shooter system.

4. Lords of Thunder Turbo versus Lords of Thunder Sega CD == Sega CD wins, primarily by virtue of having the better music.  Less screeching from guitars and more resonance from power chords.  This is kind of unfair comparison because the Sega CD port was made later, after Hudson realized via 20/20 hindsight how much they had screwed up the music in the original version.

5. And the MOST TELLING COMPARISON of all comes from the devs at Renovation Game.  For the PCE, they created Legion -- an awful game full of flicker, chunky graphics, and nonsensical over-the-action narration.  The game is a clown show.  Whereas on the Genesis, the same team gave us Gaiares -- one of the most incredible shooters of the 16-bit era.

you had me big at no compiles for PCE 

[Tatsujin]

I thought everyone knew and accepted that MD is the better shooter system?

I can't tell are you joking or are you serious?

HAHAHA!