What games push the system?

[Joe Redifer]

Sp aside from Gate of Thunder, Winds of Thunder and Sapphire, what are some games push the technical limits of the system?

Do NOT mention any TurboGrafx games at all in this thread, PC Engine only! Mention of TurboGrafx games in the PC Engine forum is illegal. If you want to talk about the TurboGrafx-16, go to the TurboGrafx subforum. It has absolutely no business EVER being discussed here, and vice-versa! We have different forums for a reason (what that reason is, I do not know nor can I comprehend but whatever, you guys want it that way).

EDIT: Oh yeah not Dracula X, either!

[wildfruit]

Maybe populous? I mean not on a visual impact level but with not much RAM there's a lot going on. I'm just guessing.

[Nazi NecroPhile]

Magical Chase - lots of graphical tricks not used often elsewhere
Gulliver Boy - impressive FMV, much better than Sherlock or ICFtD
Spriggan - awesome looking regular CD game that beats many Super CD shewties in the graphics department
Champions Forever Boxing - pushes the sound samples like a mo-fo
Falcon - they look pretty bleh, but they're real polygons!
Gunboat - ditto
Faceball - ditto, though these look decent
Vasteel - lots of weird warping and transparency effects

[wildfruit]

Maybe populous? I mean not on a visual impact level but with not much RAM there's a lot going on. I'm just guessing.

Populous even had some extra work RAM built in, didn't it?

And that reminds me: Strip Fighter II... in 8 megabits it pulled off visuals comparable to Street Figher II and its 20 megabits.

I have a vague recollection of a thread discussing the issue. I think the conclusion was that it didn't. But then again there must be some reason the card is thicker.

[Nazi NecroPhile]

Populous huey does have extra work ram.

[owlnonymous]

Do NOT mention any TurboGrafx games at all in this thread, PC Engine only! Mention of TurboGrafx games in the PC Engine forum is illegal. If you want to talk about the TurboGrafx-16, go to the TurboGrafx subforum. It has absolutely no business EVER being discussed here, and vice-versa! We have different forums for a reason (what that reason is, I do not know nor can I comprehend but whatever, you guys want it that way).

/2cftlzm.jpg

[Joe Redifer]

LOL!

[SuperDeadite]

Not sure how much it pushes the system, but Metamor Jupiter's rotating colony stage always makes me drool.  The game does some large scaling effects at times though they are quite slow.

[Sadler]

I'm not sure if these games pushed the system to its limits, but they do have neato scan line effects:

Metamor Jupiter
Vasteel 2
Street Fighter 2
Nexzr
Super Darius II
Neutopia 2
Star Parodier
Cotton
Solider Blade

And I'd like to call out Star Parodier again for having some of the best presentation on the system. The parallax, scaling, distortion, music, sound effects, intro, charm, everything. Just completely awesome!

EDIT I mean, I'm a graphics whore, so I'm just going to rattle off some more games that look amazing:

Anearth Fantasy Stories
Terraforming
PC Denjin
Legend of Xanadu 2
Coryoon
New Adventure Island
EDIT3 HOLY NO THAT WAS TOTALLY TG16 and I still think the 3D wireframe stuff in Space Invaders is cool...

EDIT2 Does homebrew stuff count? Tongueman's Logic had some neat stuff going on. The transparency Link demo was cool, as was the Axelay demo.

[HailingTheThings]

Do NOT mention any TurboGrafx games at all in this thread, PC Engine only! Mention of TurboGrafx games in the PC Engine forum is illegal. If you want to talk about the TurboGrafx-16, go to the TurboGrafx subforum. It has absolutely no business EVER being discussed here, and vice-versa! We have different forums for a reason (what that reason is, I do not know nor can I comprehend but whatever, you guys want it that way).

/2cftlzm.jpg

That's racist! lol

[imparanoic]

soldier blade, street fighter 2 and pc denjin are probably the technically impressive hucards

Nezxr and image fight 2 is very impressive from a technically point of view and showed that the pc engine cd rom is as impressive as their sega and Nintendo counterpart

[A Black Falcon]

Most of the games I'd mention have been mentioned already -- Street Fighter II', Legend of Xanadu II, Nexzr, AnEarth Fantasy Stories, Spriggan...

Beyond that, hmm.  For regular CD titles, what about Alzadick or Download 2?  They look pretty good for games that don't use the Super CD.  Also I personally really like W-Ring, both in visuals (for a HuCard) and particularly the music.  And on that note, how about Gradius II (Super CD)?  I see Super Darius 2 mentioned here, but Gradius 2 looks just about as good I think... as for Gradius 1, it obviously can't match the sequel, but for a HuCard game it looks great, slowdown aside.

Otherwise, hmm.  Well, the best-looking RPGs are probably Xanadu II and AnEarth, but Magicoal and Monster Maker look a LOT better than most any earlier Turbo RPG.  Great work there compared to the earlier stuff.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Does Atlantean count?

There's a fuckton of sprite pushing, even though most of it is for visuals.

and Insanity!

There's more onscreen collisions in Insanity than there are in your average hectic level of any PCE shooter.


That's kind of sad when you really think about it.

[Joe Redifer]

Does Atlantean count?

Well it would, but not for the episode I'm trying to put together. I've already talked about Lords and Gate of Thunder multiple times as well as Sapphire and Dracula X. Those are all great system pushers on a technical or at least visual and movement level. I looked at Nexzr and it looked boring. Just another shooter set in space scrolling up. It had stretchy ships that appeared out of nowhere and that was the only redeeming feature I found. I've gotta have more than just a boring black background full of stars.

[imparanoic]

you never know nexzr could play better than m.u.s.h.a, probably not as it's just plain difficult and frustrating to play

Pc genjin3/Bonk 3: Bonk's Big Adventure is technically impressive due to the super large sprite, which snes or genesis rarely has such large sprites

[Dicer]

Blodia.

To a lesser degree: Coryoon, Magical Chaise, Xanadoos, 3X3 I's

That game comes off a lil chip and tosses scrolling and sprites around like it's nobodies biz....

[imparanoic]

3×3 Eyes: Sanjiyan Hensei has the smoothest animation for a digital comic on 16bit system

[deubeul]

Garou Densetsu Special is quite impressive compared to MD and SNES versions, really not far from the Neo except for the parallaxes.

[NightWolve]

pcengine-fx.com/reviews/duomazov/2013/01/seiya-monogatari-anearth-fantasy-stories.html




Yeah, Anearth Fantasy Stories definitely pushes the system to its max graphically, looking like a SNES RPG. Of course you gotta do Sapphire in such an episode, obvious one. Short on other ideas ATM. Many already mentioned.

[SuperDeadite]

Cychorider is quite impressive too now that I think about it.  On max game speed it moves REALLY fast but still remains perfectly smooth and records a reply at the same time.  Fantasticly well made for a freebie bonus game.

[geise]

pcengine-fx.com/reviews/duomazov/2013/01/seiya-monogatari-anearth-fantasy-stories.html


Yeah, Anearth Fantasy Stories definitely pushes the system to its max graphically, looking like a SNES RPG. Of course you gotta do Sapphire in such an episode, obvious one. Short on other ideas ATM. Many already mentioned.

O:)

[TurboXray]

Meh - no game really pushes the PCE, that aren't on your list. Some do some cool FX or such in ~some~ areas/parts, but a game that pushes the PCE should be doing it every area or almost every area at every chance. No game outside of Got, LoT, DracX, and Sapphire really do this.

[deubeul]

Star Parodier do it as well, FX everywhere. Xanadu2 is fantastic from start to end too.

Chô Aniki's sprites are amazingly animated Too, with lots of little details.

[Digi.k]

no one thinks parodius DA!?! I was graphically impressed with it back in 1992.   first 8mbit card, and amount of animation, sprites and layered scrolling, colors and scaling did it for me.  It's a little rough around the edges particularly with the slight pausing when sprites are scaled up.  I love the effects of the blue bell bomb when everything turns black and white.

[Dicer]

So, when are we getting Anearth in English?!?!?!

[Tatsujin]

lol, nexzr is one fantastic game

[seieienbu]

Expanding a bit on Street Fighter 2', at 20 megabits it's 2.5 times larger than the next biggest hucard. 

Not the biggest fan of the game, but Art of Fighting's characters are huge and really show off what a PC Engine with the additional space allotted by an arcade card could do.

Aside from that most games I'd mention (3x3 Eyes, Anearth Fantasy Stories, LoX2) have already been discussed.

[PunkCryborg]

Not sure how much it pushes the system, but Metamor Jupiter's rotating colony stage always makes me drool.  The game does some large scaling effects at times though they are quite slow.

Yeah this was the first thing that comes to mind when I read the thread title

[Sadler]

I looked at Nexzr and it looked boring. Just another shooter set in space scrolling up. It had stretchy ships that appeared out of nowhere and that was the only redeeming feature I found. I've gotta have more than just a boring black background full of stars.

The squishy giant enemy ships are neat, but what about the player ship scaling at the beginning/end of stages (watch until ~9 minutes, 30 seconds)? Or the parallax of stage six?

I admit I don't think any of that is hard for the PCE (and plenty of other games do it), but I do think they are pretty nice touches.

[esteban]

Expanding a bit on Street Fighter 2', at 20 megabits it's 2.5 times larger than the next biggest hucard. 

Not the biggest fan of the game, but Art of Fighting's characters are huge and really show off what a PC Engine with the additional space allotted by an arcade card could do.

Aside from that most games I'd mention (3x3 Eyes, Anearth Fantasy Stories, LoX2) have already been discussed.

Parodius 8Mb?

Who can quickly tell me the average Mb size of HuCARD and list the "biggest" ones...

[Sadler]

I like at 3:30.... "COCK PIT"

Man, I really flubbed trying to link stage six. But yeah! Intro has neat stuff going on too!

[CrackTiger]

Expanding a bit on Street Fighter 2', at 20 megabits it's 2.5 times larger than the next biggest hucard. 

Not the biggest fan of the game, but Art of Fighting's characters are huge and really show off what a PC Engine with the additional space allotted by an arcade card could do.

Aside from that most games I'd mention (3x3 Eyes, Anearth Fantasy Stories, LoX2) have already been discussed.

Parodius 8Mb?

Who can quickly tell me the average Mb size of HuCARD and list the "biggest" ones...

4 megs was the sweet spot. So many impressive games given the relatively small size, yet still so many impressive 3 meg games.


Bigger ones:

8 megs:

Bonk 3
Bomberman '94
Fire Pro Wrestling 3
Lady Sword
Parodius Da
Strip Fighter II


6 megs:

Raiden
Neutopia II
Super Momo Tarou Dentetsu II
F1 Circus '92
Power League 5
Power League '93

[Bernie]

Beyond Shadowgate!!!

[esteban]

Expanding a bit on Street Fighter 2', at 20 megabits it's 2.5 times larger than the next biggest hucard. 

Not the biggest fan of the game, but Art of Fighting's characters are huge and really show off what a PC Engine with the additional space allotted by an arcade card could do.

Aside from that most games I'd mention (3x3 Eyes, Anearth Fantasy Stories, LoX2) have already been discussed.

Parodius 8Mb?

Who can quickly tell me the average Mb size of HuCARD and list the "biggest" ones...

4 megs was the sweet spot. So many impressive games given the relatively small size, yet still so many impressive 3 meg games.


Bigger ones:

8 megs:

Bonk 3
Bomberman '94
Fire Pro Wrestling 3
Lady Sword
Parodius Da
Strip Fighter II


6 megs:

Raiden
Neutopia II
Super Momo Tarou Dentetsu II
F1 Circus '92
Power League 5
Power League '93

Thank you. Is that complete list of 8Mb? Or are there some others?

Same question for 6Mb. 

I'm using this info for an article I'm writing...it was perfect timing that this came up in conversation!

[CrackTiger]

Expanding a bit on Street Fighter 2', at 20 megabits it's 2.5 times larger than the next biggest hucard. 

Not the biggest fan of the game, but Art of Fighting's characters are huge and really show off what a PC Engine with the additional space allotted by an arcade card could do.

Aside from that most games I'd mention (3x3 Eyes, Anearth Fantasy Stories, LoX2) have already been discussed.

Parodius 8Mb?

Who can quickly tell me the average Mb size of HuCARD and list the "biggest" ones...

4 megs was the sweet spot. So many impressive games given the relatively small size, yet still so many impressive 3 meg games.


Bigger ones:

8 megs:

Bonk 3
Bomberman '94
Fire Pro Wrestling 3
Lady Sword
Parodius Da
Strip Fighter II


6 megs:

Raiden
Neutopia II
Super Momo Tarou Dentetsu II
F1 Circus '92
Power League 5
Power League '93

Thank you. Is that complete list of 8Mb? Or are there some others?

Same question for 6Mb. 

I'm using this info for an article I'm writing...it was perfect timing that this came up in conversation!

I don't know if it's complete, but it's at least 90% complete.

Quiz Toko Shashin is also 8 megs.

How big is Atlantean?

If SuperGrafx games count, these are all 8 meggers:

1941 Counter Attack
Aldynes
Battle Ace
Daimakaimura

[NightWolve]

pcengine-fx.com/reviews/duomazov/2013/01/seiya-monogatari-anearth-fantasy-stories.html


Yeah, Anearth Fantasy Stories definitely pushes the system to its max graphically, looking like a SNES RPG. Of course you gotta do Sapphire in such an episode, obvious one. Short on other ideas ATM. Many already mentioned.

O:)

Ah, I see what you did there! I thought it was just a smiley at first. ;)

[imparanoic]

Not sure how much it pushes the system, but Metamor Jupiter's rotating colony stage always makes me drool.  The game does some large scaling effects at times though they are quite slow.

Yeah this was the first thing that comes to mind when I read the thread title

looks like mode 7 being done on pc engine super cd rom

[spenoza]

Art of Fighting's resolution change that mimics the Neo Geo's screen scaling is a pretty impressive trick, given how relatively seamless it is.

[seieienbu]

According to my rom directory, the full list of 8 mb games ist:

1941
Aldynes
Bomberman 94
Bonk 3
Daimakaimura
Darius Plus
Detana Twinbee
F1 Circus 92
Fire Pro Wrestling 3
Lady Sword
Parodius Da
Populous
Power League
Momotarou Densetsu
Neutopia 2
Quiz Takou Shashin
Raiden
Strip Fighter 2
Super Momotarou Densetsu 2
TV Sports Basketball

[NightWolve]

Not sure how much it pushes the system, but Metamor Jupiter's rotating colony stage always makes me drool.  The game does some large scaling effects at times though they are quite slow.

Yeah this was the first thing that comes to mind when I read the thread title

looks like mode 7 being done on pc engine super cd rom

Yeah, that's pretty cool, never knew about this game. Video compression is terrible though, introducing artifacts, so I'd wanna see this on the real thing or from a better video, but yeah, it's impressive.

[CrackTiger]

According to my rom directory, the full list of 8 mb games ist:

Daimakaimura
Power League
1941
Aldynes
Neutopia 2
Bomberman 94
Bonk 3
Detana Twinbee
Fire Pro Wrestling 3
Lady Sword
Parodius Da
Populous
Power League
Strip Fighter 2
Quiz Takou Shashin
Darius Plus
F1 Circus 92
Momotarou Densetsu
Raiden
Super Momotarou Densetsu 2
TV Sports Basketball

That list is definitely very wrong, but you made me realize I'd forgotten about Darius Plus, which is 6 megs.

[seieienbu]

Interesting if it's wrong.  Why would the .pce files be different than the actual game roms...?

[TurboXray]

According to my rom directory, the full list of 8 mb games ist:

1941
Aldynes
Bomberman 94
Bonk 3
Daimakaimura
Darius Plus
Detana Twinbee
F1 Circus 92
Fire Pro Wrestling 3
Lady Sword
Parodius Da
Populous
Power League
Momotarou Densetsu
Neutopia 2
Quiz Takou Shashin
Raiden
Strip Fighter 2
Super Momotarou Densetsu 2
TV Sports Basketball

Twinbee is not an 8meg game. The rom dump is, but it's actually a 6meg game.

Interesting if it's wrong.  Why would the .pce files be different than the actual game roms...?

Over dumps. So you don't have to handle different rom mirroring layouts on flash carts and emulation. But at the expense of a larger rom.



 OP: If you looking for games that have particular instances where it does something unique or 'pushes' the system, rather than a game as a whole - I could list some stuffs.

 TwinBee hucard - later stages uses quite a bit of sprites to do parallax. One part has a three layers as a result.

 Metamor Jupiter - the cannon barrel part. Not just hsync Y-scaling and X offset, but BG color #0 trick to add to the illusion. There's also a part where it has good dynamic tiles for a fake BG layer.

 Magical Chase - Good use of dynamic tiles, sprites and hsync interrupts to give more depth to 'scrolls'. First level uses the rarer BG color #0 trick. The trick is only used by a few games.

 Gradius 2 - Not really pushing the system per se, but the overall presentation is top tier package. And the fact that they managed to get the game running with almost no slowdown (Konami are great game designers, but not exactly great 'coders'. Even their dual 68k arcade board of the same game slows down). The dynamic tiles in to the two different stages were nice as well.

 Ninja Spirit - Only one real part is impressive and I've only seen it done once; dynamic tiles on a split bitplane level. The leaves of the trees on the second level are bit plan 2/3, and the dynamic tiles are on bitplane 0/1. They use a special palette so that you don't see the leaves changing colors, but the BG layer scrolling underneath them. But they could have just as well made this a transparency effect with scrolls. I don't know of any other game that does this, other than my TF4 PCE demo.

[seieienbu]

Over dumps. So you don't have to handle different rom mirroring layouts on flash carts and emulation. But at the expense of a larger rom.

Oh, sensible.  Thanks for the explanation.

[SamIAm]

Star Parodier.

(dynamic tiles)

(I'm not exactly sure how this layering trick is accomplished)


Also, Tom/Bonknuts/TurboXray posted this a million years ago. It might give you some inspiration:

[Nazi NecroPhile]

I gotta get me a Star Parodier.  Such a sweet shewty.

[CrackTiger]

I originally listed Detana Twinbee as a 6 meg game from memory, but double checked on pcecp which says it's only 4 meg. I wonder if it was a typo. I don't remember if the PCE Catalog discs list card size.

[Nazi NecroPhile]

PCE Daisakusen says it's 4 meg.

[Otaking]

Video Game Den has it at 4 meg too.

[esteban]

Thank you confirming all of these games, comrades.