"Why I Dislike The N64", or "What is the Deal With the N64?"

[vexcollects]

I always have ads up looking for locally sourced TG-16 Duo games. Every about 4 – 6 months I get a bite from someone and I get some games. It is always nice to buy locally.
Recently someone contacted me with a great arrangement of Duo games. I’m still attempting to arrange a deal with this fellow. We are attempting to work out a trade. I have an extensive SNES boxed game collection that I am unloading so he seemed interested. Here is the thing though, at the top of his “wanted” list is an N64 and about 20 games.
I blew out most of my N64 stuff over the last half year because I just came to realize that it does not interest me. I continued to analyze why I was not a fan of that system and came to a few conclusions.

-   There were not a lot of great games for the N64. I dare anyone to name more than 20 “universally” loved games (I’m being generous), with the caveat that they still hold up. This brings me to my next point.

-   N64 games for the most part, do not hold up to the test of time. Let’s be honest, a lot of N64 games feel like tech demos at the dawn of Nintendo’s attempt at three dimensional gaming. I still agree that Mario 64 is one of the best games of all time, but I’m sorry, Goldeneye (I’m about to get lynched) is an aged, slow, and ugly game, with poor controls. Welcome to the start of, “look what we can do in games now”. All of this fancy 3d was seen as a major progression in gaming. Looking back, most of those games don’t feel like progress. To be fair, the game creation techniques just needed refinement and a few years of development before they got it right and 3d gaming became truly great.

-   Art. Art is important. I think we all can agree, TG-16 Duo games are for the most part, beautiful. Rich and interesting art styles. Colors that pop on the screen even by modern standards. N64 games and the word “art” have almost nothing in common. N64 games are full of graphics designed for function. Shading a polygon in 1996 is not art. Again, with the exception of a few games, this is the argument I will defend.

-   Point 3: This sh*t is not rare! Why, week after week and month after month, I see people posting N64 games on Kijiji as “rare”, I cannot figure out. There is some person posting Conker’s Bad Fur Day every other day on Kijiji for as long as I can remember, but those individuals still post it with the disclaimer, “no low ballers. I know how much this is worth.” It’s a $60 dollar game at best (cart only)! It’s ugly, not even that good, and hardly a rare title. There are millions of N64 carts collecting dust in basements and attics all over my city that you can buy every week at garage sales for $1 per cart, but for some reason carts like Zelda Majora’s Mask, and Super Smash Bros. sell for $40- $50 because they are supposedly “rare”. I’m not saying that the price of all other collectable games are justified, but with the N64, it is just ludicrous. (with the exception of a few titles that actually are rare.)

-   My last reason for disliking the N64 is: The ridiculous pie eyed love for everything Nintendo by 70% of the gamers I run into. I like Nintendo a lot. I am a huge fan, but I am a gamer. I also loved the Nokia N-Gage and the Panasonic 3DO. Every system had its moments that defined it, but that does not hinder my ability to recognize fault and say, “Hey, this particular product is not so great.” I just cannot fathom why 9 times out of 10 when I’m looking to trade games with someone who has actually great and valuable games, all they want is N64 titles. I don’t have any! They are gone! I traded them all off because they are not great, they are so damn common, and everyone wants them. I kept about 13 games for the N64 and I can’t think of any others that I want, yet week after week in my city they are treated like the gaming pinnacle and traded/sold in ridiculous numbers. I can’t even get my friends to recognize that the TG-16 is a valid system most of the time. I explain how great the games are, and how great the Japanese PC Engine games are, and show them examples of the greatness, but alas they just want to play Starfox 64 (so ugly and muddy/dark). The really sad thing is, if I took all of those great TG-16/PCE games and plopped them onto a Nintendo system with the trademark of “Nintendo” on them all of the sudden people would be falling all over themselves to get a copy of Blazing Lazers.

Anyway, what are your thoughts? Am I completely off base here? I should say that as a gamer, I own almost every system post NES, including obscure items like the Atari Jaguar, Nokia N-Gage, CDX, 3DO, Lynx, NEOGEO Pocket, blah blah blah. The point is, I’m not a console snob, but I'm mostly proud of my TG16/PCE stuff. Best systems ever!   

[technozombie]

My thoughts echo yours. I was never a fan of the n64 even when it was the "best graphics" out.  I go to a lot of garage sales in my area and I never see n64 but I agree its not rare.

[o.pwuaioc]

Let's break this down. First, a disclaimer. Of the systems I own, N64 is one of my least favorite. Even as a kid, when I got it in 96, I wished I had gotten a PS1 instead (granted, I was taken in by the awesome looking graphics of Final Fantasy VII, a game I later would play and dislike). So I'm not an N64 apologist. However, a couple of things:

-   There were not a lot of great games for the N64. I dare anyone to name more than 20 "universally" loved games (I'm being generous), with the caveat that they still hold up. This brings me to my next point.

This is unfair. "Still holds up" is incredibly subjective. Some people would claim that simple 2D games don't hold up anymore in the face of massive and complex games today. Plenty of people don't like 2D shooters, saying the gameplay is outdated. Some people think golden age arcade games don't hold up! Fie on them, I say. To me, here is a list of 20 games that really do hold up.

Blast Corps
Diddy Kong Racing
Doom 64
Jet Force Gemini
Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
Mario Golf
Mario Kart 64
Mario Tennis
Mischief Makers
Ogre Battle 64
Perfect Dark
Pilotwings 64
Rakugakids
Robotron 64
Sin & Punishment
Snowboard Kids
Snowboard Kids 2
Star Fox 64
Super Mario 64

There, and I did it without resorting to GoldenEye or only one 3D platformer, on a system known for its 3D platformers.

N64 games for the most part, do not hold up to the test of time. Let's be honest, a lot of N64 games feel like tech demos at the dawn of Nintendo's attempt at three dimensional gaming. I still agree that Mario 64 is one of the best games of all time, but I'm sorry, Goldeneye (I'm about to get lynched) is an aged, slow, and ugly game, with poor controls. Welcome to the start of, "look what we can do in games now". All of this fancy 3d was seen as a major progression in gaming. Looking back, most of those games don't feel like progress. To be fair, the game creation techniques just needed refinement and a few years of development before they got it right and 3d gaming became truly great.

This is all opinion backed up by only GoldenEye, on which we have to disagree. GoldenEye slow? You're playing it on easy. Ugly? 3D games were ugly on all three fifth gen systems. I dare you to find a 3D game that's beautiful on the PS1, Saturn, or N64. Even in the next generation the games largely had ugly people in it (they started getting it right with the scenery, though). So your criticism is as much about fifth gen gaming as it is about the N64.

Art. Art is important. I think we all can agree, TG-16 Duo games are for the most part, beautiful. Rich and interesting art styles. Colors that pop on the screen even by modern standards. N64 games and the word "art" have almost nothing in common. N64 games are full of graphics designed for function. Shading a polygon in 1996 is not art. Again, with the exception of a few games, this is the argument I will defend.

Again this is a 3D vs. 2D argument and irrelevant when examining the N64 on its own merits in its own context.

There is some person posting Conker's Bad Fur Day every other day on Kijiji for as long as I can remember, but those individuals still post it with the disclaimer, "no low ballers. I know how much this is worth." It's a $60 dollar game at best (cart only)! It's ugly, not even that good, and hardly a rare title.

Well, it is a Rare game. 

My last reason for disliking the N64 is: The ridiculous pie eyed love for everything Nintendo by 70% of the gamers I run into.

So you hate something because people are nostalgic for it? Sounds hipster-level ridiculous to me.

So, all in all, these might be great reasons why you don't like the system, but they're hardly good reasons why nobody should like them, and they say nothing at all about how good or how bad it actually is. It comes down to personal preference and aversion to what's popular.

[MrFulci]

I never cared at all for the N64, or any of those systems from that generation, because by then 3D was taking over, and I didn't care for those games, nor did I like the way they played on a control pad. Also, I had Atari 2600, 5200 (I don't have that anymore), NES, SNES, Genesis + Sega CD, TG-16. I already had enough stuff.

*edited to add - I did buy an Atari Jaguar during that PS1 generation. Atari Jaguar had Tempest 2000 and some other games I liked.

I knew where 3D games were at. The PC. I knew that as soon as I had Wolfenstein 3D, and especially DOOM. DOOM was the reason I bought a proper soundcard for my PC and upgraded from a 33mhz 386, to a 100mhz 486 DX4. When GL Quake was released for Quake, I had no reason to look at consoles anymore. I began to care more about what type of 3DFX video card I had, processor, RAM, etc.

Golden Eye was mentioned here. I looked at that with a bit of snobbery, and thought, "Wow, I feel sorry for people who think this is so cool...".  Huh, what's that, I know, I see 4 players can play on a single TV screen. You can see what the other players are doing, though... No thanks, I don't want a turn playing...

I had Quake World. and Blood. and DOOM. etc... I also disliked the controls. I preferred a keyboard and mouse.

Not to get too lengthy, there are 0 games that interest me with the N64. The PC, I don't want to play platformers, fighters, etc on it, and on consoles I don't want to play FPS games, and most "3D" games. About the only computer game I don't mind on a console, is Populous. I don't really need the keyboard and mouse for that .

I did buy a PS2, but the only games I have for that are Namco Collection, Metal Slug collection, Capcom collection, Activision Collection, etc. I can use those new-fangled controllers with the thumb sticks when I play Smash TV.

[ToyMachine78]

N64 = 64 piles of shit

[DeshDildo]

I actually agree that my N64 is one of the systems I play the least.  It is true that there are many games that haven't aged well.  I can think of quite of few titles that I loved when new but don't care for now.  However ,GoldenEye is still great in my mind.

I think N64 will be the next system that starts to jump in prices (it's already starting) because the folks that grew up with that system are graduating college and getting big boy jobs.  Now that they have money, they're getting nostalgic for all the stuff the loved/ played when they were young.

As far as rarity, there is still plenty of the stuff found at garage sales.  In the last episode my YouTube channel posted, quality N64 lots were all that were being found.

[TheClash603]

This is all opinion backed up by only GoldenEye, on which we have to disagree. GoldenEye slow? You're playing it on easy. Ugly? 3D games were ugly on all three fifth gen systems. I dare you to find a 3D game that's beautiful on the PS1, Saturn, or N64. Even in the next generation the games largely had ugly people in it (they started getting it right with the scenery, though). So your criticism is as much about fifth gen gaming as it is about the N64.

The Saturn is arguably the worst 3D system of the bunch, but I can't say anything bad about how Nights looks.  Game is a bit muddy compared to what comes out now-a-days, but it is also gorgeous.

[MrFulci]

If a Nintendo 64 or PS1 fell into my lap, no matter the games, I would put plug it all in to test it out, then sell it to someone to get rid of it.

That's how I feel about those systems.

Now Saturn stuff... That's a bit different.

[bob]

"Why I Dislike the N64"

Because you're human.  Only dodo birds like the N64.

[synbiosfan]

I think if you don't check out the 64 you'll miss out on some great games. That being said it is my least favorite Nintendo console. Some of my reasons are different.

I was an adult when the 64 came out and was disappointed. In a nutshell, the Nintendo hype machine was flooding magazine's (for years) with propaganda giving an unrealistic expectation.

If it was one of your first systems your viewpoint will/may be different so I'm not trying to crap it.

[BlueBMW]

Most guys here know that Im an unashamed N64 lover.   Two words... Banjo Kazooie.  Done    My friends and I still get together and play Mario Kart and wcw/nwo revenge.

[MrFlutterPie]

I grew up and enjoyed the N64 and I feel like it's "trendy" to hate on it now a days.  Even on places like Nintendo Age there is a lot of dislike for it.

I got my N64 in 1996 and I have always felt in order to truly experience and appreciate the N64 was to enjoy it in it's full prime.  To try and play it for the first time in a post PS2 era will not reflect it favourably.

I will say this though, SNES is better hands down

[wildfruit]

My beef was that it didn't do rgb out the box. Inexcusable.

[Bernie]

Gotta admit, I too love the N64.  Super Mario 64 blew me out the water at the time.  I still play it to this day, my 64 that is.  It sits there looking pretty with an EverDrive stuck in it. 

[vexcollects]

Yes! I'm glad to see there are others out there who agree with me. Maybe I was being a little harsh as some pointed out. My "N64" friend is coming over tonight to game. I have a great Super Famicom game (Twinbee) that I just got yesterday, but I know we will end up back on the N64. I bought Quake II on the N64 so we can play it. I have fond memories, but again......fond memories does not always work out.

I will say in response to one of the members above, I agree with your points on how this is merely my opinion on the N64. I never claimed it wasn't and I'm not trying to convince anyone else to "hate" the N64. That is why I asked everyone what their thoughts were on my opinion. I'm also not sure I used the word "hate". That is a strong word and I still own a N64 and 13 games. One of my favorite games of all time is Mario 64. All I'm saying is that I don't like it and I have some opinions as to why I don't. If you don't think they are valid...cool. I'm willing to listen to your point of view and examine your argument to see if I'm being too harsh. Peace.

Still gonna defend it though. Goldeneye does not hold up. Play some Quake II on the PC and then tell me why Goldeneye is great. What I meant by calling it "slow" is that it is clunky due to poor controls and the limitations of the system. Wrong choice of words.

I'm also not comparing the N64 to any other 3D console offerings at the time just because it would be a crazy argument. There is a lot of subtlety there. I honestly don't think 3D games on consoles started coming into their own until the Dreamcast appeared....but again, just my opinion.

and yeah, maybe it's "trendy" to dislike it, but I've never really loved the N64, so that is not the case with me. It's also hard to be a hipster at 38 years of age with a mortgage living in suburbia. So, I'm gonna dismiss any accusation that I dislike it to be hip or because I "hate" what other people love just because I want to. I may not understand why they love it so much, which only means that I have an opinion. I think that is fair.

[johnnymad]

I have a pretty big N64 collection but have been thinking about selling off most of it and just keeping a few that are actually good. Picked up around 130 boxed N64 games about a year ago. Got them from a guy who used to own a video store and I couldn't pass up his price. Most of the games aren't very good and have not aged well. There are a few good ones but man are there some bad ones too.

[MrFlutterPie]

Please note when I say "hate" or "hating" in regards to trivial things like video games I mean it in the internet sense where anything a person  doesn't like/share the same opinion as me automatically are hating on it. The internet has a way of blowing everything up in a massive hyperbole.   

I made sure that I used proper language further in the sentence by switching my terminology to "dislike" as this is a more accurate appraisal of the situation.

As for the trendy comment I prefaced it by saying "I feel like..." which means it is a personal opinion of mine and not an accusation. 

[synbiosfan]

Please note when I say "hate" or "hating" in regards to trivial things like video games I mean it in the internet sense where anything a person  doesn't like/share the same opinion as me automatically are hating on it. The internet has a way of blowing everything up in a massive hyperbole.   

I made sure that I used proper language further in the sentence by switching my terminology to "dislike" as this is a more accurate appraisal of the situation.

As for the trendy comment I prefaced it by saying "I feel like..." which means it is a personal opinion of mine and not an accusation. 

Please remember this as most of it is assumed by us, vex.

If not you may not feel comfortable here

[MrFlutterPie]

I dunno I feel pretty comfortable here...

[synbiosfan]

I dunno I feel pretty comfortable here...

I edited it after realizing you might think I was referring to you

And you did, lol.

[MrFlutterPie]

In B4 da edit

I had a feeling you were referring to Vex.

[Bernie]

Never understood the dis-like for the N64.  It was bad ass for its time.  I remember paying for mine in advance, and waiting in line on release day to pick it up.  One of the most exciting systems I have ever owned, and got myself all worked up over.  No regrets to this day...  I only wish they had released the sequel to ShadowGate 64 that we never saw...

[seieienbu]

Even at the time I didn't find N64 graphics pleasing to look at.  I felt that hardware was still too weak to have decent looking fully 3D worlds; most N64 games were too blurry and foggy for me to enjoy.  Beyond that I pretty much didn't enjoy the gameplay in Mario 64, Zelda 64, or any of multitudes of 3D platformers.

I knew where 3D games were at. The PC. I knew that as soon as I had Wolfenstein 3D, and especially DOOM. DOOM was the reason I bought a proper soundcard for my PC and upgraded from a 33mhz 386, to a 100mhz 486 DX4. When GL Quake was released for Quake, I had no reason to look at consoles anymore. I began to care more about what type of 3DFX video card I had, processor, RAM, etc.

Golden Eye was mentioned here. I looked at that with a bit of snobbery, and thought, "Wow, I feel sorry for people who think this is so cool...".  Huh, what's that, I know, I see 4 players can play on a single TV screen. You can see what the other players are doing, though... No thanks, I don't want a turn playing...

I had Quake World. and Blood. and DOOM. etc... I also disliked the controls. I preferred a keyboard and mouse.

During Goldeneye's heyday my friends and I would bring our computers over to one of our houses on the  weekends and play Quake 1 on LAN, and a bit later Quake 2 or 3.  I never understood why people would want to play an FPS that looked worse with only a quarter of the screen while using shitty controls.  What I find funny is people still claim that Goldeneye was good at the time or even incredibly that it still holds up today.

[HailingTheThings]

I rarely play my 64. I have to be in this mood, you know, like a weird mood to play really shitty games like Castlevania 64. Man, that game takes me back.

I remember getting so excited to play that game back in the day. A friend invited me to stay at his house for the weekend, We rented that game, some shitty action movie on VHS (can't remember) and ordered a pizza.

His Mom left us alone because she's an awesome parent. So, what'd we do? Drank her beer and smoked her cigarettes, while eating pizza and playing MF Castlevania!

We decided the game wasn't very fun about an hour - hour + 1/2 into it.

We watched the shitty action movie then I think we ended up drawing and playing Monopoly or something like that before falling asleep unfulfilled. Thanks Nintendo. Thanks Konami. Yeah. Fun times.

On a positive note, the next day we went out and had an adventure of sorts. By that, I mean we hung out at someone else's house, I think. It was a long time ago. I don't know... Anyways.. Yay! Fun!

[Medic_wheat]

I liked the system. It was one of the first systens I bought with my own money and many of the games. There is a good selection of games that I enjoy growing up and a few more I am discovering now.

I say if you are still able to find fun games on a system you thought you knew maybe saying the system wasn't all that great is gaming eyes wide shut.

[MrFulci]

.....


During Goldeneye's heyday my friends and I would bring our computers over to one of our houses on the  weekends and play Quake 1 on LAN, and a bit later Quake 2 or 3.  I never understood why people would want to play an FPS that looked worse with only a quarter of the screen while using shitty controls.  What I find funny is people still claim that Goldeneye was good at the time or even incredibly that it still holds up today.

The people who speak fondly of Goldeneye, did not have a proper PC-setup during that time for multiplayer FPS gaming, or they didn't know of anyone else doing similar with a PC. During that time it was LAN or Modem-to-Modem, until Quake-World, TEN, and all that other stuff came along. LAN you needed multiple computers, monitors, etc. Modem-to-modem, which had it's own issues. However, I managed a lot with modem-to-modem.

A multiplayer game of Goldeneye would be easier and cheaper to setup during that time, however, I could not deal with playing an FPS like that. I witnessed it, I played with a group before, and I couldn't tolerate it. I can appreciate it, but during that time, I could not tolerate it. I had, and still have, no desire to play Goldeneye or any FPS on a console.

Now people can do pretty much the same stuff with the modern consoles. Still no support (That I know of) for custom maps and such. Do FPS games on modern consoles support keyboard and mouse yet?

Anyway, DOOM64 was interesting, different monsters and such, but I never played it on an N64, I played it through a custom WAD on a PC. . Just search for the DOOM64 WAD, and you can play it on Zandronum, Z-DOOM, or any of those modern DOOM mods that add online multiplayer, 3D acceleration, etc. I still go online occasionally and play DOOM, on the PC.

[vexcollects]

.....


During Goldeneye's heyday my friends and I would bring our computers over to one of our houses on the  weekends and play Quake 1 on LAN, and a bit later Quake 2 or 3.  I never understood why people would want to play an FPS that looked worse with only a quarter of the screen while using shitty controls.  What I find funny is people still claim that Goldeneye was good at the time or even incredibly that it still holds up today.

The people who speak fondly of Goldeneye, did not have a proper PC-setup during that time for multiplayer FPS gaming, or they didn't know of anyone else doing similar with a PC. During that time it was LAN or Modem-to-Modem, until Quake-World, TEN, and all that other stuff came along. LAN you needed multiple computers, monitors, etc. Modem-to-modem, which had it's own issues. However, I managed a lot with modem-to-modem.

A multiplayer game of Goldeneye would be easier and cheaper to setup during that time, however, I could not deal with playing an FPS like that. I witnessed it, I played with a group before, and I couldn't tolerate it. I can appreciate it, but during that time, I could not tolerate it. I had, and still have, no desire to play Goldeneye or any FPS on a console.

Now people can do pretty much the same stuff with the modern consoles. Still no support (That I know of) for custom maps and such. Do FPS games on modern consoles support keyboard and mouse yet?

Anyway, DOOM64 was interesting, different monsters and such, but I never played it on an N64, I played it through a custom WAD on a PC. . Just search for the DOOM64 WAD, and you can play it on Zandronum, Z-DOOM, or any of those modern DOOM mods that add online multiplayer, 3D acceleration, etc. I still go online occasionally and play DOOM, on the PC.

.

Now Doom 64 I liked. I still own it. The sound effects are perfect. It controls really well. It's fast, smooth, and not clunky. It's fun and still has that sudden scare element to it. The atmosphere is spot on also. The visuals are still muddy but not as bad as I had remembered. It has actually aged nicely. Back on release day I paid $120 for it thanks to Nintendo's choice to stick with carts... Although I prefer carts for collection sake, it was so expensive. I rebought it a few months ago for $5. Ha! It's weird how game values are all over the place for what seems like arbitrary reasons.

[vexcollects]

Please note when I say "hate" or "hating" in regards to trivial things like video games I mean it in the internet sense where anything a person  doesn't like/share the same opinion as me automatically are hating on it. The internet has a way of blowing everything up in a massive hyperbole.   

I made sure that I used proper language further in the sentence by switching my terminology to "dislike" as this is a more accurate appraisal of the situation.

As for the trendy comment I prefaced it by saying "I feel like..." which means it is a personal opinion of mine and not an accusation. 

Please remember this as most of it is assumed by us, vex.

If not you may not feel comfortable here

Oh...... I'm comfortable here. I wasn't offended. I don't post much to forums because I'm not one to think highly of my own opinion enough to thrust it out into the world, but every so often........ I guess my momentary dislike of the n64 got the better of me. Played some Twinbee and totally calmed down. 

[MrFulci]

..................

Now Doom 64 I liked. I still own it. The sound effects are perfect. It controls really well. It's fast, smooth, and not clunky. It's fun and still has that sudden scare element to it. The atmosphere is spot on also. The visuals are still muddy but not as bad as I had remembered. It has actually aged nicely. Back on release day I paid $120 for it thanks to Nintendo's choice to stick with carts... Although I prefer carts for collection sake, it was so expensive. I rebought it a few months ago for $5. Ha! It's weird how game values are all over the place for what seems like arbitrary reasons.

$120? Wow. I bought Super Mario 3 for NES at Launch, that was $60 or so. A few PC games for $50.. Usually I'd wait for the price to get to $30-$40, which never took too long with the PC games. I never bought many games at launch. Atlantean, when I buy it, may be the most expensive, "Launch" title I've bought, haha. Anyway..

I don't mean to poo-poo on the N64, just dipping my feet into gaming again, and digging out games, posting here again, so things come to mind. I think back on things, and yeah, I stopped with "New" consoles, for the most part (Exception being Jaguar), after 16-bit. The PC had more of what I wanted; Theme Park, Dungeon Keeper 1, 2, Bullfrog was nice.  FPS games. Heroes of Might and Magic 2 and 3, and other Turn based strategy. Real time strategy, also. All that stuff wasn't really around on consoles. The stuff I wanted on consoles, I already had plenty of shoot-em-ups, platform games, etc.

It reminds me of visiting someone a few years ago, and the person wanting me to play some Call of Duty on the 360. I tried, and I just hated it on the split screen. The control is too awkward for me, same goes for the split-screen. It's like, when I tried to play Theme Park on the Jaguar, after having it on the PC. The thought of, "Wow, why even continue playing this..."  I bought Theme Park when for the Jaguar when it was discontinued, so it was a $5 curiosity buy.

Back on topic, I think the last game I played on N64, was when someone wanted me to play Gauntlet 64 with them. I played for about an hour or so. It wasn't my taste, though. Also, not quite my thing. I'm pretty sure the movement was 3Dish. I'd rather play 8 eyes, or Gauntlet 2 on the NES. Gauntlet 64, that's not quite my thing. it's like how I enjoy 2D fighters, but dislike 3D fighters.

Got kinda stuck in certain ways. Getting older!

[ClodBusted]

From the early promo video tapes that were given away for free, I wasn't really sure if I could like the blocky polygonal graphics style, pop-ups, collision clipping and distance fog. I didn't know the words for these graphical phenomens and techniques back then, but seeing Mario having transformed from a round-shaped plumper into a edged stature, I at least know there was something wrong.

But then that was becoming the graphical style of the video- and PC games back then, so I had to accept it.

Even though I knew shooters from the computer in the form of Doom and Quake, I still liked Turok: Dinosaur Hunter and GoldenEye 007 a lot. The former transformed the control of PC FPS perfectly to the console with fast 4-way movement (c-buttons, felt like using WASD), precision aiming (as long as the control stick didn't wear out), an unbelievably smooth refresh rate (thanks to the fog?) and a lot of out-of-the-world enemies. Oh, and the enourmous stages, there was so much to discover. The later Turok games messed around with the control and the graphics, too bad. They also tried to copy the glorious Unreal Tournament ('99) with Turok: Rage Wars, and I didn't like it.

For GoldenEye 007, the unique feature back then were the mission system, weapon reload, realisticly shaped level design after real-world objects, and smart behaving enemies with hit zones. You just didn't get this whole package anywhere else at the time it was released. The controls weren't as slick as Turok's, but since the whole game was running on a lower speed and less pure action-oriented, it was perfectly acceptable and suited the game very well. I still play it today some times, mostly for revisiting my favourite levels (Faciltiy and Bunker #1) on 00 agent hard mode.

Perfect Dark followed the GE007 formula, but there's something in it that doesn't let me enjoy it as much as I did with its predecessor. It might be the weapons, the levels or the general slightly altered control feel itself. GE007 nailed it, but PD failed on trying to expand it too much. And then there was the annoying permanent-drop in framerate which even got worse in many enemy-polluted areas.

Do FPS games on modern consoles support keyboard and mouse yet?

Half Life on PS2 did natively through the USB ports of the console, but that's the exception of the rule. Today there are some converters available to use keyboard/mouse controls on console, but since they emulate joypad input, all I can guess is their precision varies a lot and isn't on par with native k/m support.

Played that Doom64 WAD too using jDoom back then. I guess the real thing plays and looks a little bit different in some places. Have you ever tried the Goldeneye WAD? Hilarious trying to put a genuine 3D game with vertical axis into a 3D environment without vertical axis, but at least they tried.





For those who haven't seen it yet (anyone?), here's the N64 episode that let me to learn of the GameSack show:

[TheClash603]

Never understood the dis-like for the N64.  It was bad ass for its time.  I remember paying for mine in advance, and waiting in line on release day to pick it up.  One of the most exciting systems I have ever owned, and got myself all worked up over.  No regrets to this day...  I only wish they had released the sequel to ShadowGate 64 that we never saw... 

Meaning it came out in other regions or it was cancelled?  I have Shadowgate 64, didn't know a second existed in any form.

[MrFlutterPie]

I'm not one to think highly of my own opinion enough to thrust it out into the world, but every so often........

How would a person go about sharing thoughts, feelings or opinions in a appropriate way without "thinking highly of their own opinion enough to thrust it out into the world?"

By your definition anytime a person shares their opinion or comments they are forcing their beliefs on you when in reality they are really just sharing their opinions and participating in the conversion.

I shared my opinion in a polite way just like you did.  What separates our comments to mean that I was forcing my beliefs on you but you were not forcing your beliefs on me?

[o.pwuaioc]

I will say in response to one of the members above, I agree with your points on how this is merely my opinion on the N64...I'm saying is that I don't like it and I have some opinions as to why I don't.

Oh, I thought you were looking as to whether those opinions were good or not. My bad.

I don't begrudge anyone who dislikes the N64, but I also don't care if they don't like the PC Engine, NES, Genesis, Saturn, Dreamcast, 2600, etc... So long as they say "I tried it, and I myself don't like it."

But when you say things like "There weren't even 20 universally loved games on it that still hold up", you're crossing into territory that allows criticism. That's what I was getting at.

[BlueBMW]

I'll just leave this one here....



Actually maybe I should explain...  N64, ahhh those were the days.  In 1996 I was 12 years old, aka perfect little kid video gaming age.  At school we would watch Channel 1 in the mornings and there would be commercials for the N64...  When I saw Mario 64 and Waverace 64 and the whole concept that you could "go anywhere and any direction"  to my 6th grade person that was phenomenal.  Keep in mind up to that point my gaming was limited to NES, SNES and Genesis (and PC... but that's a different story)  So I had never really experienced a real 3D game outside of maybe Fzero.

So Christmas of 96 passed and around February of 97 I was calling every used game store in town (Game Force, Buy Back Games etc in the Denver area for those who remember) to find a cheaper "used" N64.... Finally I found one at Game Force Lakewood (right next to Casa Bonita iirc...)  I bought the system, mario 64 and waverace 64.  I was soooo excited to get home and play.

Got it home, hooked it up to the parents "big screen" TV.  It was one of those old school rear projection monsters.  It was gaming bliss.  I was not disappointed in the least.  The new 3d control and experience was so awesome I was in heaven.

Later games came along like Goldeneye and Starfox which my friends and I played the crap out of.  Literally there would be 10 of us in a living room taking turns playing multiplayer Goldeneye.  Later on I got Banjo Kazooie and that game stuck with me as my favorite N64 game.  Excellent music, fun gameplay and even compared to modern graphical standards I still think it looks really great.  I play it every year around Christmas time.

So yeah, my N64 love is not founded so much on the actual merits of the system but on the fact that it hit me at just the right impressionable age.  I noticed someone mentioned PC games above.  I was an avid PC gamer before I got into any consoles.  I always felt they were different experiences so I never remember comparing consoles to PC games.  Games like Dune 2, Civilization, Star Control 2, Heroes of Might and Magic etc etc were PC games and of course were superior to anything consoles could make.  With regard to the Goldeneye debate.... I had not really played much other than Doom or maybe Dark Forces so I didnt have too much to compare to when it came to FPS games at the time.

[vexcollects]

I'm not one to think highly of my own opinion enough to thrust it out into the world, but every so often........

How would a person go about sharing thoughts, feelings or opinions in a appropriate way without "thinking highly of their own opinion enough to thrust it out into the world?"

By your definition anytime a person shares their opinion or comments they are forcing their beliefs on you when in reality they are really just sharing their opinions and participating in the conversion.

I shared my opinion in a polite way just like you did.  What separates our comments to mean that I was forcing my beliefs on you but you were not forcing your beliefs on me?

I think you are interpreting my comments in ways I did not intend. I'm not talking about you, your opinion, or whether you are forcing anything on anyone or not. I'm only speaking about myself. When you say "by your definition.... ", I didn't define anything. I don't always share my opinion because I know there is always someone more educated on the subject than I. I am just one dude who thinks a thing. There are many dudes who think about the same things and have more information on the subject than I. If anyone doesn't share my opinion because they are more knowledgeable than I, great, more power to them. Maybe I learn something from them. I don't care if I'm right or wrong. My ego is not wounded.
I'm sure your opinion was shared in a friendly intention. I didn't realize that mine was not friendly or that I was not being friendly. I apologize to those who I have offended.

Oh yeah, and who also likes Pilotwings 64? Even though I don't care much for the system, Pilotwings is intense fun to this day.

[synbiosfan]

Oh yeah, and who also likes Pilotwings 64? Even though I don't care much for the system, Pilotwings is intense fun to this day.

I enjoy it very much. A buddy of mine and I played it a lot (and drank a lot) so I have some pretty fond memories of it. Great collection of mini games.

I grabbed a copy at the flea market years ago so that I'd have a copy. On the rare times I hook the 64 up, it's one of the games I play. Another is Resident Evil 2, I really like how it turned out.

[MrFlutterPie]

I'm not one to think highly of my own opinion enough to thrust it out into the world, but every so often........

How would a person go about sharing thoughts, feelings or opinions in a appropriate way without "thinking highly of their own opinion enough to thrust it out into the world?"

By your definition anytime a person shares their opinion or comments they are forcing their beliefs on you when in reality they are really just sharing their opinions and participating in the conversion.

I shared my opinion in a polite way just like you did.  What separates our comments to mean that I was forcing my beliefs on you but you were not forcing your beliefs on me?

I think you are interpreting my comments in ways I did not intend. I'm not talking about you, your opinion, or whether you are forcing anything on anyone or not. I'm only speaking about myself. When you say "by your definition.... ", I didn't define anything. I don't always share my opinion because I know there is always someone more educated on the subject than I. I am just one dude who thinks a thing. There are many dudes who think about the same things and have more information on the subject than I. If anyone doesn't share my opinion because they are more knowledgeable than I, great, more power to them. Maybe I learn something from them. I don't care if I'm right or wrong. My ego is not wounded.
I'm sure your opinion was shared in a friendly intention. I didn't realize that mine was not friendly or that I was not being friendly. I apologize to those who I have offended.

Oh yeah, and who also likes Pilotwings 64? Even though I don't care much for the system, Pilotwings is intense fun to this day.

No worries mate.  I think we are on the same page now

[MrFulci]

..........

So yeah, my N64 love is not founded so much on the actual merits of the system but on the fact that it hit me at just the right impressionable age.  I noticed someone mentioned PC games above.  I was an avid PC gamer before I got into any consoles.  I always felt they were different experiences so I never remember comparing consoles to PC games.  Games like Dune 2, Civilization, Star Control 2, Heroes of Might and Magic etc etc were PC games and of course were superior to anything consoles could make.  With regard to the Goldeneye debate.... I had not really played much other than Doom or maybe Dark Forces so I didnt have too much to compare to when it came to FPS games at the time.

Mentioned in a different post was the N64 promo tape. I got one in the mail too, I guess since I was a registered SNES owner. I watched it, but nothing about that system hit with me. Same with PS1, and those other systems.

N64 is part of when consoles started drifting a direction I did not care for. There was nothing exclusive I cared for on any system, except for some stuff on Jaguar.

I did like the 3DO and PS1 Road Rash. Though I did later buy that game, a PS1 CD, that I can play on the PS2. Though, back then, Road Rash was not reason enough for me to get a 3DO or PS1 of my own.

The graphics I was seeing on N64 and such, were old stuff to me by the time it was released. I had Stellar 7 on the PC for years. I even enjoyed the cheapo game Scorcher (racing game). Just, there was so much more, that looked better, and controlled better on PCs, at least to me.

Consoles are cheaper than PCs, so I can see why many younger people had those to play with. Also, consoles are less complicated than PC games, and have that, "Plug and play" thing. Myself, I was too keen on tinkering with custom DOOM, Quake, Blood, HOMM maps, etc.  7th Guest, Carmageddon.

*edited to add;

The other thing, during that time about 20 years ago, was that I saw I was getting much more for my money with PC games. SO MUCH MORE value for the cost of the game. SOSO MUCH custom stuff out there, editors. Ability to enhance your graphics later, if your rig was powerful enough for all the eye candy, sometimes replacing your video card X amount fo time later, reloading the game again, it was a bit different. For example, I've got so much of my money's worth out of DOOM and DOOM 2, considering people are still making custom stuff for it.

*

Overall, during the era of N64, consoles just felt, to me, like a step back. The 2D and semi-3D I liked about consoles was gone there, for the most part, also. Platformers, though I played Xargon, commander keen, Jazz Jackrabbit, and I forget what else, on PC with a Gravis gamepad, is till preferred those games on consoles.

N64, was just a fork in the road to me. Consoles were abandoning the stuff I liked. PCs, they still had stuff I liked, and even older game styles were still being released. Independent publishers. Lots more.

Even PC games branched off a bit. With FPS, during the mid 00's some games got too heavy on story/plot for me, and seemed less fun. I fell out of caring about new FPS games after a while. Every so often something new is released that I enjoy, like the new Rise of the Triad, but, it's not often.


Back to N64, that era of console games is what I remember most as a branching off period, and though I played PS1, N64, etc, none of those consoles made me eager to buy one. I used that time to buy used and heavily discounted stuff for my 16-bit systems.

About all I remember from that era of N64, as being pretty notable to me, was the Resident Evil games, and Metal gear Solid. Still not enough to sell me on a system, but, interesting to play here and there.

[Medic_wheat]

Ok now this thread is just reminding me that I need to pick up a copy of RE2, Pilot Wings, Banzo 1 & 2, Conkers, and shadowgate.

Luckly I have the rest mentioned.

A few others on my want list include

Worms
Duke Nukem
Bango?  (Import that was also on the dreamcast)
Sin and Punishment
Evongelion
Robotron
bust a move

And I am sure a few others lol.   Collecting for the N64 is still semi afordable but it is syarting to heat up.  I alsobrefuse to pay $80 for a loose non import game.

[Nazi NecroPhile]

I dislike the N64 because it is not OBEY, and no Falcom either. 

If a Nintendo 64 or PS1 fell into my lap, no matter the games, I would put plug it all in to test it out, then sell it to someone to get rid of it.

I think that way about anything that's not OBEY, PC-FX, LA (even the damn feka pac, 'cause you gotta have both!), or PSP.  All systems have at least a few good games worth playing, but I've only got time for a few.

[MrFulci]

I dislike the N64 because it is not OBEY, and no Falcom either. 

If a Nintendo 64 or PS1 fell into my lap, no matter the games, I would put plug it all in to test it out, then sell it to someone to get rid of it.

I think that way about anything that's not OBEY, PC-FX, LA (even the damn feka pac, 'cause you gotta have both!), or PSP.  All systems have at least a few good games worth playing, but I've only got time for a few.

Here we go, some CliffsNotes, for ya, about me;

Every system may have some games worth playing. Just depends on a person's taste. Similar to film and genres, regions, budget, etc.

People wonder what I find in the Jaguar, but, Tempest 2000, a rotary controller, WOWZA. Plus some other stuff. It's my taste there, my silly pick-up and play arcade game, like some TG-16 games.

Anyway,

If I had NOT had a PC, I'd probably feel differently about that era (PS1, 3DO, N64, etc.) But I did, and DOOM led me to add a 250mb hard drive, 486, proper adlib card, etc.

During that time, why Starfox? Starfox 64? Why, when I had stuff like Descent?

It was an age thing too, I remember so clearly at that time, my FIRST 2X CD-ROM! Then, the 4X CD-ROM!

System Shock 2.. That's all I could say years ago when people were raving about Bio Shock. I am glad SS2 got recently updated, with a proper wide release patch on GOG, Steam, etc. More people, now familiar with Bio Shock, can see what the PC had years before that.

Had I been a certain age, not had a PC capable of certain games, and had different taste, I'd feel different about certain systems after 16-bit.

[MrFulci]

........... but I've only got time for a few.

That's another point, only so much time, for so much. Gotta have a bit of a cut-off point, otherwise one gets overwhelmed, and becomes, what's what word around  here... Colectard? One who never plays, but only buys.

[reson8er]

I owned a 64 and several games, but really disliked the systems library overall.  I disliked the controller, the horrible look of most games and to this day I have 0 regrets from selling it. A real let down from the SNES imo.

[Arkhan Asylum]

I hated N64 when it came out when I was 10.   Here's why:

1) Controller was retarded
2) Batteries were involved for some of the crap
3) No RPGs because no CDs
4) Mario 64 sucked
5) hardly any good games ever actually came out in comparison to Playstation.

As years went on, my anti N64 feelings were unchanged because I watched Zelda get ruined, more crap 3D platformers, versions of games that sucked compared to PS1.

The controller still blew.

It never really got any better.   There's maybe 10 games on the system that are worth owning.


People may have had fun with the n64 and enjoyed it, but you really can't say it was better than the Playstation. 

Its only perk was 4 player bullshit, which is a moot point for people like me who don't like playing games with people.

[MrFulci]

...............
People may have had fun with the n64 and enjoyed it, but you really can't say it was better than the Playstation. 
..........

Basically, if I had a choice, to spend X years with an N64, or a PS1, I'd go with the PS1. At least I could play Road Rash with it 

[vexcollects]

A lot more dislike for the N64 than I had originally expected. I almost feel like defending it, but that would completely ruin my original argument.

Arkhan, you think Mario 64 "sucked"? I have never heard anyone say that. Although, I don't know if ever asked anyone. I guess there are those who dislike it. Just surprising is all.

[johnnymad]

Yeah, I've never really heard anyone say they don't like Mario 64 either. I never played it as a kid and only really started playing it a few years ago. I believe it's a good game, but some of the graphics have NOT aged well. I think it's the worst graphical representation of Mario. And when that's the main character of your game, that's a bad thing.

[Medic_wheat]

Yeah, I've never really heard anyone say they don't like Mario 64 either. I never played it as a kid and only really started playing it a few years ago. I believe it's a good game, but some of the graphics have NOT aged well. I think it's the worst graphical representation of Mario. And when that's the main character of your game, that's a bad thing.

What is your opinion of the DS port?

[LostFlunky]

Yeah, I've never really heard anyone say they don't like Mario 64 either. I never played it as a kid and only really started playing it a few years ago. I believe it's a good game, but some of the graphics have NOT aged well. I think it's the worst graphical representation of Mario. And when that's the main character of your game, that's a bad thing.

What is your opinion of the DS port?

The DS port was an uncontrollable mess...  It was the only DS game I have chosen not to keep...  I play it on the Wii, PSP or N64 only...

[vexcollects]

I remember playing through the entire DS game too. Cutting off circulation to my hands every 5 minutes because I was using the stylus to control Mario. I can't believe I played through the whole thing and got all the stars while using that terrible control setup. I still own the game, I should try it again and see how long I last.