Sega Saturn

guyjin · 12/05/2006, 08:35 AM

I love the saturn. It's basically what got me back into console gaming (i was a pc gamer almost exclusively for a few years - mostly 'cuz my brother had a playstation and it sucked)

I only got one after 1998 (when it was 'dead') and i wished I'd gotten it when it was new: Saturn Bomberman is arguably the best Bomberman game ever (and certainly the best 2-d bomberman game ever) Virtual On is the best fighting game ever, and Sonic R is just gorgeous. About the only thing about the Saturn I dislike is their mascot choice (nights never turned me on)

I've yet to pick it up, but I've heard from various sources that the Saturn version of Castlevania: symphony of the night is inferior to the PSX version. Is it true? How can this be! The Saturn was THE 2D system!

GUTS · 12/05/2006, 02:23 PM

They just did a bad job on it, I think they were rushed or had a really small budget or something according to an interview with the head guy I read a while back. There are no transperancies and it suffers from tons of slowdown which really pissed me off when I bought it; the lack of transperancies I could handle, but the slowdown was just too much and ruined the game.

CrackTiger · 12/05/2006, 04:20 PM

Quote from: guyjin on 12/05/2006, 08:35 AMI love the saturn. It's basically what got me back into console gaming (i was a pc gamer almost exclusively for a few years - mostly 'cuz my brother had a playstation and it sucked)

I only got one after 1998 (when it was 'dead') and i wished I'd gotten it when it was new: Saturn Bomberman is arguably the best Bomberman game ever (and certainly the best 2-d bomberman game ever) Virtual On is the best fighting game ever, and Sonic R is just gorgeous. About the only thing about the Saturn I dislike is their mascot choice (nights never turned me on)

I've yet to pick it up, but I've heard from various sources that the Saturn version of Castlevania: symphony of the night is inferior to the PSX version. Is it true? How can this be! The Saturn was THE 2D system!

The Saturn version smokes the PSX version. The developer did a quick sloppy port, but added some major game fixing features.

The two things that cement the Saturn version as the best are:

1: Speed Boots.

As soon as you clear the first castle, you get an item that actually lets you run. In the PSX version, you have to continue walking slowly for the rest of the game.

2: Third Hand.

In the PSX version, in order to use any item, you have to stop the game and go into the menu screen. Then de-equip your weapon or shield, then equip the item you'd like to use, then go back to the game and use the item, then stop and go back to the menu screen, re-equip your weapon, then return to the game and continue playing (game breaking things like this are why Circle Of The Moon is my fav adventure Castlevania).

In the Saturn version, you have an extra hand that you can equip an item to so you can wait until you actually need it and then just use it without swapping everything around.

I haven't played it in a long time, but I believe that there were some other big gameplay improvements as well.

Some transparencies are missing and other's are replaced with that dithered mesh effect that Viva Pinata uses. If you're still using composite, you might get some rainbow effects, but it doesn't look bad. Unless you also think that most Megadrive & PCE games also look like garbage. Its dissapointing, since the Saturn can do better 2D transparencies than the Playstation.

There's some slowdown during the bigger boss fights and the game doesn't load while walking through loading hallways. But the game still loads reasonably fast if you can handle playing PCE games.

You also get a few new small areas, more music, more items(ie: more garbage), you can play the Richter quest from the get-go and there's a new Maria quest which is also available right away.

Most important off all, you can play the Saturn version with a Saturn pad, but the Playstation version uses those awful PSX pads.

Quote from: Tron on 12/05/2006, 01:18 AM
Quote from: turbo_sage on 12/04/2006, 11:45 PM
QuoteDude is that a typo or a real word? Either way, I love JAWESOME! Smile
Street Sharks Intro theme<--CLICK--- listen for the "their jawesome!"

Prolly one of the worst cartoons evar- a bad rip of TMNT and Battletoads, but still super cheesy- and I know Keranu enjoys his Entertainment with a hint of cheese....lol

TurboSage
Your forgetting Bucky O' Hare and Biker Mice From Mars.

Realy when TMNT became a hit every body had to have a, hero team of animals

Bucky O'Hare
Biker Mice From Mars

Your forgetting Masters Of The Universe.

Realy when MOTU became a hit after Mattel finally managed to get the anti-toy show law overturned after 30 years of trying, every body had to have a cartoon based on their action figures.

The only catch is that there had to be some kind of educational content. Hence the hilarious post episode "knowing is the half the battle" garbage.

PCEngineHell · 12/05/2006, 05:23 PM

On the Bucky oHare subject,Bucky was around for a long while before it got a cartoon or toy line. Larry Hama created it in the late 70ies. I think it was published in normal comic book form by Continuity Comics. They were actually pretty good. It wasnt in any way a TMNT clone.

CrackTiger · 12/05/2006, 08:40 PM

Quote from: PCEngineHell on 12/05/2006, 05:23 PMOn the Bucky oHare subject,Bucky was around for a long while before it got a cartoon or toy line. Larry Hama created it in the late 70ies. I think it was published in normal comic book form by Continuity Comics. They were actually pretty good. It wasnt in any way a TMNT clone.

Cool, I never knew that.

One could argue that the toys weren't wholly original, but most real action figures in the 80's weren't, except for GI Joe.

GUTS · 12/05/2006, 11:13 PM

You guys remember that rabbit samurai guy that was crossed with TMNT? I remember he had his own comic and even a game or two (on C64 if I remember right), I think his name was Usage Yojimbo. I always liked him and wondered how he wound up getting cross-licensed with the Turtles.

TR0N · 12/05/2006, 11:33 PM

Quote from: Keranu on 12/05/2006, 02:03 AM
Quote from: Tron on 12/05/2006, 01:18 AMYour forgetting Bucky O' Hare and Biker Mice From Mars.
Don't talk bad about Buck O'Hare, I loved that show.

... and I miss my rad glow-in-the-dark Bucky O'Hare shoes .

Watch it on youtube hmm meh for me any ways.

Still that's hollywood for ya copy what ever becomes a hit.

It's not like i'm, putting the show down i've just notice the trend when tmnt became a hit.

TR0N · 12/05/2006, 11:51 PM

Quote from: PCEngineHell on 12/05/2006, 05:23 PMOn the Bucky oHare subject,Bucky was around for a long while before it got a cartoon or toy line. Larry Hama created it in the late 70ies. I think it was published in normal comic book form by Continuity Comics. They were actually pretty good. It wasnt in any way a TMNT clone.

I've herd it was base on a comic book just like tmnt was.

Still it just seem to me every body "had to have" there own animal team.... when tmnt set the way on tv.

Coincidence maybe,maybe not who knows.

Kind of like when "hasbro had a hit" importing transformers.... then tonka toys 'follows suit and berings gobots/machinerobo to the u.s.

guyjin · 12/06/2006, 08:49 AM

since this has degenerated into a thread about cartoons, here's some intros from my very early childhood (try to date me!)

(pole position... i remember the theme music being better)

(dungeons and dragons cartoon)

(kidd video - more than enough cheese there for keranu!)

Keranu · 12/06/2006, 04:39 PM

Quote from: guyjin on 12/06/2006, 08:49 AMsince this has degenerated into a thread about cartoons, here's some intros from my very early childhood (try to date me!)
(pole position... i remember the theme music being better)

Holy crap, I had no clue there was a cartoon for Pole Position! That's totally sweet and that's a really jawesome theme song! I'll have to look for this show.

CrackTiger · 12/06/2006, 05:58 PM

Quote from: Tron on 12/05/2006, 11:51 PM
Quote from: PCEngineHell on 12/05/2006, 05:23 PMOn the Bucky oHare subject,Bucky was around for a long while before it got a cartoon or toy line. Larry Hama created it in the late 70ies. I think it was published in normal comic book form by Continuity Comics. They were actually pretty good. It wasnt in any way a TMNT clone.
I've herd it was base on a comic book just like tmnt was.

Still it just seem to me every body "had to have" there own animal team.... when tmnt set the way on tv.

Coincidence maybe,maybe not who knows.

Kind of like when "hasbro had a hit" importing transformers.... then tonka toys 'follows suit and berings gobots/machinerobo to the u.s.

Hey c'mon, Go-Bots are kinda like the K-Mart Transformers.

Keranu · 12/06/2006, 06:07 PM

Anyone remember ZBots? I really loved those little things when I was a kid, my favorites were the hockey player and the Johnny 5 rip off.

TR0N · 12/06/2006, 10:37 PM

Quote from: guest on 12/06/2006, 05:58 PM
Quote from: Tron on 12/05/2006, 11:51 PM
Quote from: PCEngineHell on 12/05/2006, 05:23 PMOn the Bucky oHare subject,Bucky was around for a long while before it got a cartoon or toy line. Larry Hama created it in the late 70ies. I think it was published in normal comic book form by Continuity Comics. They were actually pretty good. It wasnt in any way a TMNT clone.
I've herd it was base on a comic book just like tmnt was.

Still it just seem to me every body "had to have" there own animal team.... when tmnt set the way on tv.

Coincidence maybe,maybe not who knows.

Kind of like when "hasbro had a hit" importing transformers.... then tonka toys 'follows suit and berings gobots/machinerobo to the u.s.
Hey c'mon, Go-Bots are kinda like the K-Mart Transformers.

If ya mean generic i know what ya mean.

Still it's a shame we got burn on the gobots cartoon from hanna barbera.

Check it's jpn counter part machine robo.

Btw you be the judge.
MachineRobo

Gobots

CrackTiger · 12/06/2006, 11:09 PM

Quote from: Tron on 12/06/2006, 10:37 PM
Quote from: CrackTiger on 12/06/2006, 05:58 PM
Quote from: Tron on 12/05/2006, 11:51 PM
Quote from: PCEngineHell on 12/05/2006, 05:23 PMOn the Bucky oHare subject,Bucky was around for a long while before it got a cartoon or toy line. Larry Hama created it in the late 70ies. I think it was published in normal comic book form by Continuity Comics. They were actually pretty good. It wasnt in any way a TMNT clone.
I've herd it was base on a comic book just like tmnt was.

Still it just seem to me every body "had to have" there own animal team.... when tmnt set the way on tv.

Coincidence maybe,maybe not who knows.

Kind of like when "hasbro had a hit" importing transformers.... then tonka toys 'follows suit and berings gobots/machinerobo to the u.s.
Hey c'mon, Go-Bots are kinda like the K-Mart Transformers.
If ya mean generic i know what ya mean.

Still it's a shame we got burn on the gobots cartoon from hanna barbera.

Check it's jpn counter part machine robo.

Btw you be the judge.
MachineRobo
Gobots

I mean like since god created man and man created The Transformers. Then The Transformers are like, a gift from God!

guyjin · 12/06/2006, 11:11 PM

Honestly, they could have called the show anything, because other than driving, pole position the game and pole position the cartoon have nothing in common.

I also vaguely remember pretending that the cars from pole position were transformers.

termis · 12/07/2006, 01:00 AM

Changing the topic to Saturns for a bit, but...

Is there a good forum for Sega saturns, (like this one for TG16/PCE's)? If you know any, please share!

Joe Redifer · 12/07/2006, 01:36 AM

I've been wondering that myself for awhile, and could never find a good Saturn forum.

(Sorry for going off-topic and talking about the Saturn in this thread. Please don't BAN me!)

Keranu · 12/07/2006, 02:15 AM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 12/07/2006, 01:36 AM(Sorry for going off-topic and talking about the Saturn in this thread. Please don't BAN me!)

Arrrrrgh, ok. You're free this time, but you had better watch yourself from now on.

cavein2000 · 12/07/2006, 04:33 PM

#5 is alive!!!!

Keranu · 12/07/2006, 06:31 PM

Quote from: cavein2000 on 12/07/2006, 04:33 PM#5 is alive!!!!

Muchachos kick your ass, Muchachos kick your face, Muchachos kick your balls into OUTERSPACE!

CrackTiger · 12/07/2006, 06:48 PM

Quote from: Keranu on 12/07/2006, 06:31 PM
Quote from: cavein2000 on 12/07/2006, 04:33 PM#5 is alive!!!!
Muchachos kick your ass, Muchachos kick your face, Muchachos kick your balls into OUTERSPACE!

And that is why Short Circuit is the ultimate Keranu film.

Keranu · 12/07/2006, 07:01 PM

I love the Short Circuit films. As much as I love the first one for it's 80's-ness, I have to say I like the second one a little more because it's just really good

.

esteban · 12/07/2006, 11:00 PM

Quote from: Keranu on 12/07/2006, 07:01 PMI love the Short Circuit films. As much as I love the first one for it's 80's-ness, I have to say I like the second one a little more because it's just really good .

Crap, I haven't seen those movies since they were out. I totally enjoyed them. There was some hit pop song I liked as well ("Hey Johnny, she said, and smiled in her special way...you know I love you") that was in those films, right?

Joe Redifer · 12/07/2006, 11:05 PM

I like the Weird Al version of that song:

"Heeeere's Johnny, he said
and laughed in his special way"

esteban · 12/07/2006, 11:19 PM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 12/07/2006, 11:05 PMI like the Weird Al version of that song:

"Heeeere's Johnny, he said
and laughed in his special way"

Crap, I don't recall that version, but I might have heard it if Dr. Demento played it on his show

.

termis · 12/08/2006, 01:38 AM

Ah... Short circuit. That was good fun. What was that line - "Nice software!"

But I'm wondering if it's my nostalgia getting to me. I recently started to watch Goonies, and fun as it was when I was child, it wasn't that good now... I couldn't finish it.

Hmm...

Oh, and sorry for constantly throwing in the Saturn in the conversation topic, but if anyone needs one, hit me up. I got tons of working ones now. Out of the batch of 12 defective ones I initially had, I got -
- 8 working (though 1 was really jerry-rigged - but I left in on for an hour, and it seemed to chug on fine...),
- 1 just needs a good power supply,
- and 2 extra spare working laser assemblies for future.

Not a bad score, I say...

And a moment of silence to the 3 Saturns that I chucked in the dumpster.

(2 with faulty video chips, 1 with a just bad motherboard which I couldn't figure out why it wasn't working)

Yeah, and the gray one is a mixture of a Japanese and a US shell... I had to mix those things up (a bad lid on the Jp one)! I gotta say the black buttons look sharper than the blue ones, though...

Keranu · 12/08/2006, 02:00 AM

Well done! And I like the case mixes you did.

PCEngineHell · 12/08/2006, 09:32 AM

Quote from: guyjin on 12/06/2006, 08:49 AMsince this has degenerated into a thread about cartoons, here's some intros from my very early childhood (try to date me!)
(pole position... i remember the theme music being better)
(dungeons and dragons cartoon)
(kidd video - more than enough cheese there for keranu!)

Pole Position always reminded me of Mask. I watched all those cartoons,used to have the D&D action figures too.

Medic_wheat · 09/12/2014, 09:18 AM

With recent talk about Saturn games I resurect this tread.

This is in effort to keep from making more duplicate threads.

vexcollects · 09/12/2014, 02:03 PM

Quote from: Medic_wheat on 09/12/2014, 09:18 AMWith recent talk about Saturn games I resurect this tread.

This is in effort to keep from making more duplicate threads.

BOOSH! Damn straight you are. Now, who has Nascar 97 for the Saturn? It is the s%^t. Or, wait....it is s^%t.

Seriously though... here's a question, which version of Symphony of the Night (PS1/Saturn) is better (if we can measure such a thing)?

Medic_wheat · 09/12/2014, 02:15 PM

Quote from: vexcollects on 09/12/2014, 02:03 PM
Quote from: Medic_wheat on 09/12/2014, 09:18 AMWith recent talk about Saturn games I resurect this tread.

This is in effort to keep from making more duplicate threads.
BOOSH! Damn straight you are. Now, who has Nascar 97 for the Saturn? It is the s%^t. Or, wait....it is s^%t.

Seriously though... here's a question, which version of Symphony of the Night (PS1/Saturn) is better (if we can measure such a thing)?

Well the saturn verson has a stage not found in any other port not even the recent xbox360 release.

DragonmasterDan · 09/12/2014, 04:09 PM

Quote from: vexcollects on 09/12/2014, 02:03 PMBOOSH! Damn straight you are. Now, who has Nascar 97 for the Saturn? It is the s%^t. Or, wait....it is s^%t.

Seriously though... here's a question, which version of Symphony of the Night (PS1/Saturn) is better (if we can measure such a thing)?

The Saturn version has slowdown in spots, is missing transparency effects, has actual spots where it sits and loads in addition to the rooms connecting the different wings of the castle. It has Maria and Richter playable from the start and two areas added on both the regular and reverse version of the castle. Overall the Saturn version is quite a bit worse IMO.

Digi.k · 09/12/2014, 06:30 PM

Quote from: DragonmasterDan on 09/12/2014, 04:09 PM
Quote from: vexcollects on 09/12/2014, 02:03 PMBOOSH! Damn straight you are. Now, who has Nascar 97 for the Saturn? It is the s%^t. Or, wait....it is s^%t.

Seriously though... here's a question, which version of Symphony of the Night (PS1/Saturn) is better (if we can measure such a thing)?
The Saturn version has slowdown in spots, is missing transparency effects, has actual spots where it sits and loads in addition to the rooms connecting the different wings of the castle. It has Maria and Richter playable from the start and two areas added on both the regular and reverse version of the castle. Overall the Saturn version is quite a bit worse IMO.

yup also there are music remixes, few extra rooms and weapons, There are 18 new enemies and 2 new bosses.
You also get a 3rd equip and Alucard can dash. plus a 6th familiar.

Some enemies have new death animations which are taking advantage of the Saturn's sprite rotation, scaling capabilities.

The cd if you pop it into a pc you can view some Symphony of the Night artwork scans.

Yes it is inferior to the PSX version but I would advise you to pick it up if you just want to complete your castlevania collection. It is a good game in it's own right but inferior.

/3e1bd8ee3440eeb03555b43126fa3436.jpg

It is also programed by KCE Nagoya .. I mean who are they ???

EDIT:

Oh I just noticed the other replies a few pages back...

Digi.k · 09/12/2014, 07:06 PM

Quote from: termis on 12/08/2006, 01:38 AMAh... Short circuit. That was good fun. What was that line - "Nice software!"

But I'm wondering if it's my nostalgia getting to me. I recently started to watch Goonies, and fun as it was when I was child, it wasn't that good now... I couldn't finish it. Hmm...

Oh, and sorry for constantly throwing in the Saturn in the conversation topic, but if anyone needs one, hit me up. I got tons of working ones now. Out of the batch of 12 defective ones I initially had, I got -
- 8 working (though 1 was really jerry-rigged - but I left in on for an hour, and it seemed to chug on fine...),
- 1 just needs a good power supply,
- and 2 extra spare working laser assemblies for future.

Not a bad score, I say...

And a moment of silence to the 3 Saturns that I chucked in the dumpster. (2 with faulty video chips, 1 with a just bad motherboard which I couldn't figure out why it wasn't working)

Yeah, and the gray one is a mixture of a Japanese and a US shell... I had to mix those things up (a bad lid on the Jp one)! I gotta say the black buttons look sharper than the blue ones, though...

I am really fussy, I did at some point have 4 sega saturns now just 2.

japanese white one with box and UK model modded to multi regional

/82cacd55f6b54e589cce01294b079a4a.jpg

vexcollects · 09/14/2014, 02:15 AM

Here's a good one. I was playing my Saturn this evening (Action Replay cart inserted to allow me to play import Layer Section). Then I turned it off to switch to Detana Twinbee. I walked away for 10 minutes, came back and popped the game in. Turned on the console and it would no longer read the disk. Tried more disks, but would not read any. Removed the Action Replay cart and tried a US game (Bug)....still nothing. The message on the screen was something like, detecting format of disk.

As I walked away dejected I was searching for a solution on Google. Some dude on some forum advised to unscrew the top of the case off of the Saturn and then it will work again. Absolutely not believing that this could make any difference since I am a tech for a living and it just made no sense, I tried it anyway. Guess what? Worked. The console works fine again. I put the screws back in place and played for the next hour with no issues.

WTF? I sat and pondered this ridiculousness for a while and I still can't figure it out. How in the hell does removing the top of the case reset or fix anything? Maybe turning it upside down did something.

I'm just happy it is working again. Maybe it is a temporary fix for something worse, but I'll take it for now.

o.pwuaioc · 09/14/2014, 12:46 PM

Not exactly sure, but it could be a problem with the laser mechanics? Something gets jammed, unscrewing it loosens it? I haven't taken apart my Saturn in a few years, so it's a dumb guess.

xcrement5x · 09/14/2014, 03:50 PM

It could also have been a problem with the lid sensor. If the dashboard was just saying 'please close door' it might have gotten futzed in some way. I've also had times where it would read the disc, then I realized I hadn't pushed it all the way down onto the spindle, derp...

ctophil · 09/15/2014, 06:31 PM

I had to buy the Sega Saturn due to being stuck in the 16-bit era for 4 years. I was ready for the next-gen. Boy was I ready. So I jumped out and bought the system in May 1995 (it was only available at Babbages/EB Games and Toys R' Us)--2 months before the mainstream launch date in September. So I bought one of the first 30,000 units that came out. Hehe. I had my system. So I didn't care about the Playstation after it launched the same year. Everybody was talking about Playstation and later the N64. The Saturn was the "loser" to most people, but not to me. :-)

It cost $400, very expensive at the time. But who cares, I was making money by working at the grocery store, and it was all mine! Haha. The launch lineup was Shinobi Legions, Bug!, and Daytona USA. It was a terrible lineup. But I bought it anyways. This shows that a system launch hype can make people buy things.

But anyways, I really enjoyed the Saturn. To me as far as "underdog" consoles go, the Sega Saturn is my second favorite system next to the Turbografx-16. The Sega Saturn was very similar to the Turbografx-16. It had some really cool titles, and could do nice 2d graphics. Coming out of the SNES time period, I preferred 2d over 3d (I still do). I love the RPGs on that thing, such as Albert Odyssey, Grandia, Dragon Force, Panzer Dragoon Saga, and Shining Force 3. In Japan, there were a huge amount of fighting games that came out utilizing the RAM expansion cartridge. The Saturn was really good at 2d, but really hard to program for due to its twin 32-bit CPUs.

vexcollects · 09/15/2014, 11:24 PM

Quote from: ctophil on 09/15/2014, 06:31 PMThe Saturn was really good at 2d, but really hard to program for due to its twin 32-bit CPUs.

I had read in the book, "Service Games", that the Saturn was hard to program for because Sega didn't deliver developer tools to the developers until the console had already been released and that by the time the developers received any tools, things were already starting to look grim. I believe there was also a comment in this book from Sega rep who mocked the developers that were having a hard time programming because they were not as talented as the Sega developers. This is not word for word of course, just the story points I can recall. I enjoyed the book. Maybe give it a read if you are interested.

http://www.amazon.ca/Service-Games-Rise-Enhanced-Edition/dp/1494288354

DragonmasterDan · 09/16/2014, 06:36 AM

Quote from: vexcollects on 09/15/2014, 11:24 PMI had read in the book, "Service Games", that the Saturn was hard to program for because Sega didn't deliver developer tools to the developers until the console had already been released and that by the time the developers received any tools, things were already starting to look grim. I believe there was also a comment in this book from Sega rep who mocked the developers that were having a hard time programming because they were not as talented as the Sega developers. This is not word for word of course, just the story points I can recall. I enjoyed the book. Maybe give it a read if you are interested.

http://www.amazon.ca/Service-Games-Rise-Enhanced-Edition/dp/1494288354

The problem had a lot more to do with the fact that the only way to get good performance out of the Saturn was to write everything in assembler which is far more tedious and time consuming than is writing it in a more modern language. The Playstation had very functional development kits that allowed you to write in C language and potentially get 90+% of the resources out of the hardware. Because of the convoluted hardware design of the Saturn, writing something in a C based development kit led to a huge amount of overhead and code that didn't run as efficiently leading to a significant performance drop.

The problem wasn't necessarily the developer tools so much as it was the Saturn was a complicated design that made it more difficult to properly optimize than it needed to be.

Medic_wheat · 09/16/2014, 10:08 AM

/20140916_085941_zpstq2e0yvd.jpg

Current Saturn library. Not pictured JP Import Dugen Drangs.

Azzurri · 09/16/2014, 11:23 AM

I never got into Saturn, but I did pick one up about 10 years ago? I think I got the system CIB with like 6 games or so.

Still have it in my basement, I actually think I have some rares titles too, which I got all for like $50.

I was tho a HUGE Dreamcast fan, to this day I have like 4 systems, 3 US and 1 JP, and I don't remember why I have so many.

pulstar · 09/16/2014, 12:24 PM

Magic Knight Rayearth and Guardian Heroes are awesome games. Soon enough the price of Saturn games will be so high you'll have to trade a Magical Chase just to get a Panzer Dragoon Saga...

ctophil · 09/16/2014, 05:01 PM

Quote from: vexcollects on 09/15/2014, 11:24 PM
Quote from: ctophil on 09/15/2014, 06:31 PMThe Saturn was really good at 2d, but really hard to program for due to its twin 32-bit CPUs.
I had read in the book, "Service Games", that the Saturn was hard to program for because Sega didn't deliver developer tools to the developers until the console had already been released and that by the time the developers received any tools, things were already starting to look grim. I believe there was also a comment in this book from Sega rep who mocked the developers that were having a hard time programming because they were not as talented as the Sega developers. This is not word for word of course, just the story points I can recall. I enjoyed the book. Maybe give it a read if you are interested.

http://www.amazon.ca/Service-Games-Rise-Enhanced-Edition/dp/1494288354

Sounds like a good read. Thanks for sharing. :-)

Quote from: DragonmasterDan on 09/16/2014, 06:36 AMThe problem had a lot more to do with the fact that the only way to get good performance out of the Saturn was to write everything in assembler which is far more tedious and time consuming than is writing it in a more modern language. The Playstation had very functional development kits that allowed you to write in C language and potentially get 90+% of the resources out of the hardware. Because of the convoluted hardware design of the Saturn, writing something in a C based development kit led to a huge amount of overhead and code that didn't run as efficiently leading to a significant performance drop.

The problem wasn't necessarily the developer tools so much as it was the Saturn was a complicated design that made it more difficult to properly optimize than it needed to be.

That is very true. I didn't program for the Saturn. But I did a little bit for the Playstation using the Net Yaroze (Hobbyist development kit for Playstation). And I have to say that the PS1 was much easier, although I was a C++ programmer, but studying C wasn't too hard. After reading developer comments about the Saturn, I stayed clear away. Not only what you said was true, but the twin 32-bit processors were a pain to balance between them. You can't let one CPU do less work than the other. You had to have them both work like as if they were a single processor. And Assembly is ugly if you had to use that most of the time on Saturn. For those who don't know, Assembly is closer to machine language, meaning the syntax is easier for the computer to understand (and faster code) than the human programmer. This makes it hard for you to see the bugs than the C language.

Medic_wheat · 09/16/2014, 05:13 PM

Quote from: pulstar on 09/16/2014, 12:24 PMMagic Knight Rayearth and Guardian Heroes are awesome games. Soon enough the price of Saturn games will be so high you'll have to trade a Magical Chase just to get a Panzer Dragoon Saga...

Not sure what the current price is for Saga. Will most likely buy rhe import as it's dirt cheap.

Was bidding on a Elevator Action Returns but had a flat (right after my interview) and by the time I got it changed and now waiting at discount tire the auction ended and at a good price $78 bucks free shipping. Sigh. Got snipered and wasn't able to counter before it ended.

Digi.k · 09/16/2014, 06:15 PM

Quote from: T2KFreeker on 12/03/2006, 06:31 PM
Quote from: Digi.k on 12/03/2006, 02:39 AM
Quote from: T2KFreeker on 12/02/2006, 10:34 PMHmm, I love my Saturn all. Dead Or Alive was so awesome compared to the Playstation version, I love it. Krazy Ivan was the shit as well. Plus, in the USD, it had an amazing version of Quake, and that is just awesome!
Lobotamy was an amazing software company and they did fantastic stuff with the Saturn as did Travellers tales with Sonic R.
I agree with you completely. I wish that I knew what in the Hell ever happened to Lobotomy and why nobody seems to use them anymore.

If only I kept my old UK issues of The official sega saturn magazine.

This is one of the interviews with Ezra Dreisbach, a Lobotomy Programmer and creator of Death Tank !! it's a little grim reading tho...

http://www.segasaturn.co.uk/beta/news/ezra-dreisbach-interview/

and a more recent-ish interview... circa 2009

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/death-tanks-ezra-driesbach-interview

and another interview that was in the official sega saturn magazine. Shortly after they made Duke Nukem on the sega saturn.

http://ukresistance.co.uk/saturn/satduke.htm

pulstar · 09/17/2014, 07:46 AM

Quote from: Medic_wheat on 09/16/2014, 05:13 PMNot sure what the current price is for Saga. Will most likely buy rhe import as it's dirt cheap.

The going rate in the UK is around £150-£200. JP PDS is very cheap. Lots of guides about as well. I'm sure there was some special code you have to put in the action replay import converter cart to get it working correctly. Not a problem if you got a region modded or JP Saturn though.

Digi.k · 09/17/2014, 08:21 AM

Quote from: pulstar on 09/17/2014, 07:46 AM
Quote from: Medic_wheat on 09/16/2014, 05:13 PMNot sure what the current price is for Saga. Will most likely buy rhe import as it's dirt cheap.
The going rate in the UK is around £150-£200. JP PDS is very cheap. Lots of guides about as well. I'm sure there was some special code you have to put in the action replay import converter cart to get it working correctly. Not a problem if you got a region modded or JP Saturn though.

the game OST has become pretty expensive too. I love the music on both Zwei and Saga by composer; Saori Kobayashi. I plan on playing crimson dragon too although the game itself has been criticized for apparently being too rudimentary for today's game standards...

xcrement5x · 09/17/2014, 11:54 AM

Quote from: Digi.k on 09/17/2014, 08:21 AM
Quote from: pulstar on 09/17/2014, 07:46 AM
Quote from: Medic_wheat on 09/16/2014, 05:13 PMNot sure what the current price is for Saga. Will most likely buy rhe import as it's dirt cheap.
The going rate in the UK is around £150-£200. JP PDS is very cheap. Lots of guides about as well. I'm sure there was some special code you have to put in the action replay import converter cart to get it working correctly. Not a problem if you got a region modded or JP Saturn though.
the game OST has become pretty expensive too. I love the music on both Zwei and Saga by composer; Saori Kobayashi. I plan on playing crimson dragon too although the game itself has been criticized for apparently being too rudimentary for today's game standards...

It's odd you say that. A dude on the Facebook group local to me just found a brand new copy of the Azel soundtrack in a Denver thrift. So weird...

Digi.k · 09/17/2014, 12:55 PM

Quote from: guest on 09/17/2014, 11:54 AMIt's odd you say that. A dude on the Facebook group local to me just found a brand new copy of the Azel soundtrack in a Denver thrift. So weird...

also a lil' jealous the music on there is amazing. I just wish there was a sound option to listen to it in the actual game but the effects of the dragon flapping it's wings can be heard constantly....

there only a few redbook audio tracks on the game CD's but it's the stuff generated by the sound chip is what I love...