RETRO VGS Kickstarter incoming

[Nazi NecroPhile]

Since space is a concern with flash over 60 MB being too expensive it does beg the question. Why not try to implement something like minidisc or umd?

I don't think anyone cares about size, seeing as a jag case is huge compared to the size really needed for the pcb, cpu, ram, etc.

And I still don't get the flash problem.  3DS carts top out at 8gb, and is anybody really that concerned that they'll die soon?

[SephirothTNH]

Since space is a concern with flash over 60 MB being too expensive it does beg the question. Why not try to implement something like minidisc or umd?

I don't think anyone cares about size, seeing as a jag case is huge compared to the size really needed for the pcb, cpu, ram, etc.

And I still don't get the flash problem.  3DS carts top out at 8gb, and is anybody really that concerned that they'll die soon?

Oh I agree.  If they are going to use flash they might as well use the same stuff already being used in similar applications.  It just goes to show how poorly thought out the RetroVGS is.  It's like a couple of guys sat out on their back porch drinking some beers and said "we should make a new cart based system."  Only in this case they actually still thought it was a good idea the next day and actually had enough funds to get it started.

Anyway my statement you quoted is just me trying to stay in line with the developers line of thinking.  Apparently the flash that ds games use isn't retro enough for the VGS.

I don't know what your first sentence is talking about.   At least not in regards to what you quoted.  I didn't mention anything about physical size.

What I've gleaned from the developers is that:
Hard drive in the system is not retro enough
But hard drive in the cartridge is just right.
Current flash technology is not retro enough.
Mask roms or "hundred year flash" is just right.

So if hard drives in the cartridge are ok why not optical media in the cartridge a la minidisc or UMD?

This is all just in fun of course.  This system is so poorly thought out it's ridiculous.

[Nazi NecroPhile]

I don't know what your first sentence is talking about.   At least not in regards to what you quoted.  I didn't mention anything about physical size.

Since you mentioned minidisc and UMDs instead of standard DVDs, I assumed by "space" you meant physical space necessary for the drive and not storage space, as there'd be no other logical reason to use either of those obsolete formats instead of the common and cheap DVD (with or without a caddy).

[esteban]

Great work you guys are doing here, and save those animals.

What's with all those "save the animals" comments on SGDQ?

In Super Metroid, in the ending, you can take a side path, and open a door to these animals. By taking this side path, it "saves the animals" as they don't die in the explosion of Zebes, and appear in the ending sequence.. However, since its suppose to be a speedrun, this wastes time. For some reason, this bidding war of save/kill the animals is the biggest money maker for every GDQ event. Earlier yesterday, it was about even at $30,000 EACH.

That's awesome. I thought it was about Cecil.

[GreatBlue Swirlof99]

If this is has Kasumi Ninja 2, Cybermoph 2 Checkered Flag 2 im bait!

[SephirothTNH]

...there'd be no other logical reason to use either of those obsolete formats instead of the common and cheap DVD (with or without a caddy).

Yeah but there is also no logical reason not to use common affordable flash.  And there is no logical reason to put hard drives in the cartridges.  Except for their own self imposed limitations. 

My suggestion of "like mindisc or UMD" is because I didn't know if a full 12cm DVD would fit in a Jaguar cartridge.  Yeah a standard DVD would be better but we need those cartridges to be more retro.

[esteban]

If this is has Kasumi Ninja 2, Cybermoph 2 Checkered Flag 2 im bait!

I think it would actually be awesome if a developer made spiritual sequels to at least one Jaguar game (all three of your suggestions are great).

Again, this is a novelty, but I'll admit that I would totally buy the game(s).

In reality, CYBERMORH 2 is at the one (of the three you listed) I'd be most interested in playing.

UPDATE: I never knew BATTLEMORPH existed! I am so curious—but I never had a Jaguar-CD BITD, not sure if I would have taken the plunge. Hmmmmm...,

[technozombie]

I might be mistaken but I think that writing to flash over and over is what wears it down. Standard flash memory that is designated as read only should have a pretty freaking long life.

[SephirothTNH]

I might be mistaken but I think that writing to flash over and over is what wears it down. Standard flash memory that is designated as read only should have a pretty freaking long life.

That was actually my understanding as well.  Though admittedly since this came up I haven't done any fact checking so haven't mentioned it. 

Ok so after some very quick non exhaustive searching it seems 20 years is typical for only one write to the flash.  But in the interview he still claimed the HDD in the Cart would be about 20 years.

[elmer]

10 year or 20 year data-retention is typical for a lot (most?) flash chips ... you'll see it in the specs of a lot of SSD drives.
 
That's why the RETRO VGS guys are making such a fuss over using special 100-year rated flash chips.

Masked-ROM is too expensive for small production runs, and AFAIK the RETRO VGS guys are planning on basically manufacturing (i.e. burning) carts in small batches so that they don't get stuck with lots of unsold ones.

Now hard-drives in carts is just a plain-stupid idea ... hard drives have an even more limited life-span than flash chips when they're treated roughly and thrown around, just like carts will be (unless they're just kept sealed in the box on the "collector"'s shelf).

[esteban]

I still think that miniDVD drive + DVD IN A SEALED CART (should it be necessary) is the best idea not considered by Retro VGS.

[esteban]

[jlued686]

According to their Twitter, the Kickstarter begins on September 14th.

[LostFlunky]

According to their Twitter, the Kickstarter begins on September 14th.

...and potentially ends on September 14th too.. after all 3 remaining Jaguar fanboys blow their pent up loads on it...

[esteban]

According to their Twitter, the Kickstarter begins on September 14th.

...and potentially ends on September 14th too.. after all 3 remaining Jaguar fanboys blow their pent up loads on it...

I still find it hard to believe that there are as many Jaguar fanboys as there are.

However, I don't really know how many exist...but it certainly seemed pretty darned robust when they were getting homebrew/indie releases 10+ years ago.

[GreatBlue Swirlof99]

am i the only one here that thinks this thing might actually be cool! I mean look at the lauch titles (pier solar!!!!) and hey it looks fucking cool , its better than the 3DO or CDI!

[PukeSter]

am i the only one here that thinks this thing might actually be cool! I mean look at the lauch titles (pier solar!!!!) and hey it looks fucking cool , its better than the 3DO or CDI!

I think Arkhan would like to have a word with you about Pier Solar...

[CrackTiger]

am i the only one here that thinks this thing might actually be cool! I mean look at the lauch titles (pier solar!!!!) and hey it looks fucking cool , its better than the 3DO or CDI!

3DO has Lucienne's Quest, SSFIIX, Samurai showdown, Puzzle Bobble, Lemmings, Policenauts, D, Wolfenstein 3D, Syndicate, Out of this World, Flashback and lots of other celebrated games.

Retro VGS emulates Tiny Knight, Sydney Hunter and some unlicensed SNES and Genesis games.

[SephirothTNH]

Pier solar may be a good game but the company behind it is shit.  They treat their paying customers like absolute dog shit.  They require money up front for games that aren't even made yet and then flat out lie about the progress of making their carts.  That's when they let you know about anything. Most of the time they just miss deadlines and wait months before saying a word about it.  Nothing watermelon ever develops or publishes again will ever see another cent from me.

[GreatBlue Swirlof99]

am i the only one here that thinks this thing might actually be cool! I mean look at the lauch titles (pier solar!!!!) and hey it looks fucking cool , its better than the 3DO or CDI!

3DO has Lucienne's Quest, SSFIIX, Samurai showdown, Puzzle Bobble, Lemmings, Policenauts, D, Wolfenstein 3D, Syndicate, Out of this World, Flashback and lots of other celebrated games.

Retro VGS emulates Tiny Knight, Sydney Hunter and some unlicensed SNES and Genesis games.

Yeah but the 3DO had a longer life span than a console that's still not on the selves... and Wolfenstein 3D is best on the Jaguar! Lemmings lol that game is everywhere!

Well I guess what's important is the game not the devs that are bad (remember Capcom? Same fate, they had all this crap about paying and they're not doing well! I love Capcom what happend )

[CrackTiger]

am i the only one here that thinks this thing might actually be cool! I mean look at the lauch titles (pier solar!!!!) and hey it looks fucking cool , its better than the 3DO or CDI!

3DO has Lucienne's Quest, SSFIIX, Samurai showdown, Puzzle Bobble, Lemmings, Policenauts, D, Wolfenstein 3D, Syndicate, Out of this World, Flashback and lots of other celebrated games.

Retro VGS emulates Tiny Knight, Sydney Hunter and some unlicensed SNES and Genesis games.

Yeah but the 3DO had a longer life span than a console that's still not on the selves... and Wolfenstein 3D is best on the Jaguar! Lemmings lol that game is everywhere!

Well I guess what's important is the game not the devs that are bad (remember Capcom? Same fate, they had all this crap about paying and they're not doing well! I love Capcom what happend )

Almost everything for the Retro VGS is shovelware. If Pier Solar actually makes it the system, it will be the 7th platform it's available for and it's not a AAA game.

The 3DO lasted as long as it did during the peak of console wars. How long can such a small time collectard-targeting niche console with a terrible and tiny unoriginal launch line up expect to go the distance today, especially when it has such strong competition from real "retro" consoles receiving a steady stream of superior new software releases?

[CrackTiger]

Pier solar may be a good game but the company behind it is shit.  They treat their paying customers like absolute dog shit.  They require money up front for games that aren't even made yet and then flat out lie about the progress of making their carts.  That's when they let you know about anything. Most of the time they just miss deadlines and wait months before saying a word about it.  Nothing watermelon ever develops or publishes again will ever see another cent from me. 

They don't treat their customers like shit, they treat their coworkers like shit. Mystical Jewel Workshop gave the public the opportunity to join the development team as investors, who would choose the key elements of the game and receive a steady stream of insider-exclusive behind the scenes updates. So there wouldn't be a media blackout like with Pier Solar. Investors will be there every step of the way, watching the game take shape from early on right up to beta testing and release. Also, by joining the team as investors, they guarentee that the game will be given top priority and will be the only project worked on until it is in the hands of MJW members.

Sure a bunch of pessimistic jealous haters said that the exact opposite would happen as soon as MJW was unveiled, but they will be proven to be 100% wrong.

[SephirothTNH]

Honestly Black Tiger I have no idea what you're talking about.  That must be more recent than my dealings with them.  If they are a better company now, at least to their customers, then great.  But they burned this bridge with the pier solar reprint.

[CrackTiger]

Honestly Black Tiger I have no idea what you're talking about.  That must be more recent than my dealings with them.  If they are a better company now, at least to their customers, then great.  But they burned this bridge with the pier solar reprint. 

Their latest delayed release wasn't pre-sold, instead they convinced a bunch of people to pay real money for digital tokens to vote on the type of game they'd make next. They promised a lot of insider info for your money and not only delivered none, they've taken an even more extreme stance in the opposite direction and some team members have been doing some terrible damage control, all the while admitting that even they know much less than was promised woukd be shared with "investors". They even included kickstarter-like bonuses, including an invite to their development launch party in France. But only if you bought at least $3000 of tokens and you were responsible for your iwn airfare and accomodations.

They've already jumped from hombrew to calling themselves a pro company (and fellow homebrewers "competition") to a business model of a digital pyramid scheme.

All without any new games being produced. But they've got people on salary. Just like most charities.

[glazball]

I want to be excited about the Retro VGS, but like BT said, so far it only looks like shovelware.  I'm excited to play Tiny Knight, and go ahead and flame me, but I wouldn't mind playing Pier Solar since I haven't yet.  But c'mon, Super Noah's Ark 3D?  Give me a fucking break.  No one wanted to play that on SNES.

Side note: at last year's Classic Game Fest in Austin, some guys had a booth selling new/sealed copies of Super Noah's Ark 3D for SNES.  I asked them if it was NOS and he explained they had procured the rights and were making new copies of the game.  I said ok thanks and moved on, laughing inwardly to myself.  Who the hell wants that??  Sounds like they're going to try to make a few more bucks with it by releasing on the Retro VGS.

Yea, this software line-up so far has me worried.  Super Noah's Ark is really scraping the bottom of the barrel.

[CrackTiger]

Sounds like Piko Entertainment/Interactive(?). They claim to be a large team of pro developers who know each console's hardware inside and out. Unfortunately, they've been buying up the rights to every unreleased game they can, as well as some grey area titles, but have only managed to published a couple in however many years.

They recently began selling Water Margin for Genesis and the coverart/packaging couldn't look much more amateur, they didn't replace all of the assets stolen from published games and they're charging $55 a piece.

They also licensed the PCE version of Mysterious Song for SNES and Genesis, but I can't believe that they'd ever get a game built from the ground up running on either hardware.

[JoshTurboTrollX]

I want to be excited about the Retro VGS, but like BT said, so far it only looks like shovelware.  I'm excited to play Tiny Knight, and go ahead and flame me, but I wouldn't mind playing Pier Solar since I haven't yet.  But c'mon, Super Noah's Ark 3D?  Give me a fucking break.  No one wanted to play that on SNES.

Side note: at last year's Classic Game Fest in Austin, some guys had a booth selling new/sealed copies of Super Noah's Ark 3D for SNES.  I asked them if it was NOS and he explained they had procured the rights and were making new copies of the game.  I said ok thanks and moved on, laughing inwardly to myself.  Who the hell wants that??  Sounds like they're going to try to make a few more bucks with it by releasing on the Retro VGS.

Yea, this software line-up so far has me worried.  Super Noah's Ark is really scraping the bottom of the barrel.

It all kind of depends on the price.  I want to like this new idea that they have, but fear it might fail miserably.  Just to have as a conversation piece or to share at gatherings..etc.

[SephirothTNH]

Honestly Black Tiger I have no idea what you're talking about.  That must be more recent than my dealings with them.  If they are a better company now, at least to their customers, then great.  But they burned this bridge with the pier solar reprint. 

Their latest delayed release wasn't pre-sold, instead they convinced a bunch of people to pay real money for digital tokens to vote on the type of game they'd make next. They promised a lot of insider info for your money and not only delivered none, they've taken an even more extreme stance in the opposite direction and some team members have been doing some terrible damage control, all the while admitting that even they know much less than was promised woukd be shared with "investors". They even included kickstarter-like bonuses, including an invite to their development launch party in France. But only if you bought at least $3000 of tokens and you were responsible for your iwn airfare and accomodations.

They've already jumped from hombrew to calling themselves a pro company (and fellow homebrewers "competition") to a business model of a digital pyramid scheme.

All without any new games being produced. But they've got people on salary. Just like most charities.

I see.  So they pretty much went from bad to worse.  Glad I decided to stay away from them.

[jlued686]

Here's an interview by Jeremy Parish:
http://www.usgamer.net/articles/retro-vgs-the-flip-side-of-the-quest-for-classic-game-fidelity

[CrackTiger]

Here's an interview by Jeremy Parish:
http://www.usgamer.net/articles/retro-vgs-the-flip-side-of-the-quest-for-classic-game-fidelity

Almost everything stated was misleading or backwards and even if taking it all as fact, makes this seem like a bad idea for everyone involved. :/

[jlued686]

Sweet shit...

Hey All,
I wanted to come in here and address the RVGS pricing issue. It really all comes down to what gamers want to play on RVGS. For us, gamers ourselves, we want RVGS to have the ability to play all these incredible larger Retro inspired titles that are hitting the market these days, and will continue to hit the market for years and years to come. And play these games on cartridges vs. disposable digital. We also want to see what developers can do to create their own custom effects utilizing the FPGA/Arm combo we are supplying. This chipset will give them unlimited potential to do things we've never seen before in a game.
If all you want to do is play games up to a limited file size, like 50 MB for example (tbd), and do not care about the cool things developers will inevitably be doing with the very large and capable FPGA / Processor chipset then we can have a console option for that under $300.
BUT, if you do care and understand the benefits of having the first ever FPGA enabled console that will also have the ability to play these larger retro games then we can have an option for that at a higher cost.
Is $100-$150 less really worth it to limit the size of the games you want to play and is it also worth it to eliminate the games that will be created using the FPGA/Arm of our console? In the short term it may seem like a lot of money, but in the long term, we will all be shooting ourselves if we cheapen this console up.
Even though we are calling this RETRO VGS, there is nothing RETRO about the hardware. It's a NEW, modern day system, with the capability to play many of the same games that will only be available digitally on the systems from Msoft, Sony and Nintendo.
Look at the Mist and FPGA Arcade Boards. These are FPGA only and basically bare boards with no contollers, no pack-in game, limited output options, no cartridge interface and significantly more limited in what they can do and they are $250-$300 alone. You aren't going to see any modern day games running on those. We have created a console with so much more potential than those and at a much more competitive price.
RVGS may not be for everyone's checkbook, but for those gamers who want to play the latest and greatest retro style games coming from some incredible design teams and play these games on long lasting cartridges then this will be a choice packed with long term value.
We are still addressing the cart storage issues. Masked ROMS might still be a viable option but might not be an option for the larger of the retro games on the market, so we are continuing to look at our options but we are limited by today's technology which seems to all be going more disposable. This is something we can't control. I can only tell you we will provide the best option for game retention that is available today at an affordable price.
We have a few other ways we will be structuring the Kickstarter campaign to benefit the founding backers and make it worth while so please stay positive until the campaign goes live and you have all the information.
I can tell you we will have a minimum goal in the $2.5-$3MM range which will reflect about 7,000 backers minimum. This is a minimum quantity we have guaranteed our initial batch of game developers in this campaign period. We will then build on that the balance of a year until the consoles ship mid 2016. Keep in mind we aren't an existing company with other sources of income. We are not only Kickstarting a product but our company as well. And we don't have the luxury of taking a loss on RVGS out of the gates.
To address those wondering who would make games for a console like this. The one thing I can tell you is developers are coming in droves excited about the potential of having their games preserved on cartridges. Most have said it's a dream to have this and something they never thought they would have had the opportunity to do. Dev's are in line waiting to learn how to make and bring their games to RVGS. Getting an abundance of quality games on this will not be a problem. We will carefully make sure to not over saturate the market and keep the ratio of games to the # of users in check. And also assure we have a variety of all game genres represented.
This is going to be a very trick piece of hardware that will do some amazing things and play some amazing games for a very long time. We can guarantee you all that.
EDIT: Let's address game exclusivity. Like all of you, we see the value of having great games exclusive to this console. So much so we are planning on eventually developing our own first party games using some of the same game developers who made many of your favorite games back in the day. Our team has contacts that go very deep into the gaming industry. But we can't expect 3rd party developers to give us exclusives early on in our life cycle. We want RVGS to be another profit center for them and not limit their revenue generating ability. Once we feel our installed user base can afford to ask for exclusives from 3rd party devs, we will do so.
EDIT: Let's discuss game cart pricing. Hey, either you like disposable digital or you want the real thing. Either you think games are too expensive over $10 or not. If you like the real thing and want cartridges to play a lifetime, with a box and manual then this is for you. Carts will be priced from $20-$50 depending on the scope and size of the game and of course if its a game that people will pay $50 for--read that a popular game, existing franchise, etc.
EDIT: Let's discuss the Kickstarter backers. Founding backers are of the utmost importance to us. Every item purchased through the Kickstarter campaign will be exclusive to this campaign, never to be reproduced again. Whether it be special serial #'s on all units to the cart and consoles colors all backers will be getting something here that won't be available once the campaign ends. We will also be issuing credits based on stretch goals to help lower the price and offset some of the start up costs we will have running through Kickstarter. If we hit larger user/backer #'s it could also decrease some of our parts costs and when those levels are hit, credit toward future purchases will also be given. Nothing like this has ever been Kickstarted before. Unlike OUYA, we have to guarantee backers a minimum amount of users emerging from the campaign, something we can then build on for another 12 months prior to shipping the product. In the end, if you are a backer, you can expect to get the best deal possible on RVGS.
EDIT: Let's discuss dev systems. Also, a big advantage to RVGS is all retail consoles are dev kits right out of the box. Developers aren't going to have to pay any extra to develop for RVGS. We will have methods and instructions for hooking it up to your dev PC and creating / porting your games to RVGS using our free tool chains. In addition, RVGS will work with the game making suites of today, like Unity and Game Maker as well as work with those deving games using Assembly, C++, etc. There will be lots of ways for all types of developers to bring their game onto RVGS, either through the FPGA and/or ARM chipsets. Creating a system like RVGS to cater to all these types of development methods simply costs money but it will be advantageous for gamers because of the type of games that can be made and developed for RVGS.
We have had to weigh and juggle lots of things in the creation of this hardware and we don't expect all of you to understand all of the nuts and bolts of this.
EDIT: Let's discuss output. We want to build in as many output options as we can to satisfy most gamers. We could have gone HD only or composite only. We could forgo the simultaneous HD and Analog out. We could eliminate the RGB options. Is it worth it so scale our output options back?

https://www.facebook.com/RETROVGS/posts/872168816185723

[SignOfZeta]

Unless he's using mask ROMs, all this talk of carts "lasting forever" is not realistic. Flash is nowhere near as reliable as CD-ROM. Mask ROMs are some of the least volatile storage medium ever. There is a huge difference.

And the 50MB limit he's talking about. What? Talk about betraying your ignorance. Few pro game developers in 2015 could made a compelling piece of software in 50 MB. That ended in the early days of Gameboy Advance. If you program it like an actual 8/16-bit game 50 MB is HUGE, but then how are we going to fully utilize the wonderous posabilties of FPGA?

And seriously, where are these numbers coming from when still so little is known of the actual product? I can't see how it's possible those prices are anything but pure conjecture.

[elmer]

Unless he's using mask ROMs, all this talk of carts "lasting forever" is not realistic. Flash is nowhere near as reliable as CD-ROM. Mask ROMs are some of the least volatile storage medium ever. There is a huge difference.

Aren't they still talking about their 100-year flash?

That's still a "limited" lifespan to me, but much better.

And the 50MB limit he's talking about. What? Talk about betraying your ignorance. Few pro game developers in 2015 could made a compelling piece of software in 50 MB.

Especially now that they're hyping up its Unity compatibility on the ARM side for lazy modern developers.

That's all that developers would ever write for with a target of 7,000 potential customers.

And seriously, where are these numbers coming from when still so little is known of the actual product? I can't see how it's possible those prices are anything but pure conjecture.

Read down at the bottom for current specs ... http://www.retrovgs.com/f.a.q..html

Take a look at this FPGA Development Board ... $250

http://www.terasic.com.tw/cgi-bin/page/archive.pl?language=English&CategoryNo=165&No=836&PartNo=1

Now take a look at the ARM side of that board, it is less powerful than a $35 Raspberry PI 2.

It's the FPGA that's killing their budget.

Now, the FPGA is really, really cool technology ... but it will never get used by game developers if there are only 7,000 customers.

They're much better off with software emulation, which is why they're already mentioning the possibility of offering up a cheaper ARM-only product.

I predict that the FPGA option will probably get scrapped either early in, or just before, the Kickstarter.

Then all that you're going to be left with is a better quality Retron 5 in a Jaguar case. 

What a compelling purchase! 

[crazydean]

I still don't understand their market. Their prices are in line with current gen consoles, but they are intentionally restricting their hardware to be less developed. Why would I want to buy a "retro" game for this system, when I could buy a "retro" game for a current gen system like Shovel Knight?

I don't see this console appealing to anyone who doesn't already own an NES, PCE, etc. There are already many homebrews on these systems, so it can be done. Why would a developer want to spend resources on producing a game that's going to have the effective reach of an old system? Couldn't said developed just, ya know, create a game for a system that already exists?

[Arkhan Asylum]

Pier solar may be a good game but the company behind it is shit.  They treat their paying customers like absolute dog shit.  They require money up front for games that aren't even made yet and then flat out lie about the progress of making their carts.  That's when they let you know about anything. Most of the time they just miss deadlines and wait months before saying a word about it.  Nothing watermelon ever develops or publishes again will ever see another cent from me. 

Don't forget lying about problems (dat enhanced CD), calling paying customers names, saying they don't deserve anything, and then asking for more money for artificially scarce reprints v1 and v2.   

more money meaning, more than the initial release was, for a lesser quality version of the game.

Pier Solar also sucks, btw.

It's a cute looking Lunar-esque game chock full of trite dialog/plot.

Give me that much money and time to make an RPG, and I will make two, that are better.

[o.pwuaioc]

The reprints were lesser quality? Info?

[jlued686]

I still don't understand their market. Their prices are in line with current gen consoles, but they are intentionally restricting their hardware to be less developed. Why would I want to buy a "retro" game for this system, when I could buy a "retro" game for a current gen system like Shovel Knight?

I don't see this console appealing to anyone who doesn't already own an NES, PCE, etc. There are already many homebrews on these systems, so it can be done. Why would a developer want to spend resources on producing a game that's going to have the effective reach of an old system? Couldn't said developed just, ya know, create a game for a system that already exists?

These are the EXACT arguments I have been making against this thing. It's just...pointless. It seems as though it's only purpose is to say: You know that indie game that's on every other modern platform in existence? Well buy it again! On a cartridge! (By the way, it's going to be a $450 investment).

[GreatBlue Swirlof99]

Unless he's using mask ROMs, all this talk of carts "lasting forever" is not realistic. Flash is nowhere near as reliable as CD-ROM. Mask ROMs are some of the least volatile storage medium ever. There is a huge difference.

And the 50MB limit he's talking about. What? Talk about betraying your ignorance. Few pro game developers in 2015 could made a compelling piece of software in 50 MB. That ended in the early days of Gameboy Advance. If you program it like an actual 8/16-bit game 50 MB is HUGE, but then how are we going to fully utilize the wonderous posabilties of FPGA?

And seriously, where are these numbers coming from when still so little is known of the actual product? I can't see how it's possible those prices are anything but pure conjecture.

How big was Sword of Mana and Pokémon Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald?? I just don't know, but look at TLZALTTP (link to the past) it was less than 50MB right?

[SignOfZeta]

I don't remember, but IIRC GBA games are usually under 32MB. Those were not Unity translations though. if this thing is going to be running quick and dirty ports, you'll be aiming for 1GB of RAM at least.

[CrackTiger]

Unless he's using mask ROMs, all this talk of carts "lasting forever" is not realistic. Flash is nowhere near as reliable as CD-ROM. Mask ROMs are some of the least volatile storage medium ever. There is a huge difference.

And the 50MB limit he's talking about. What? Talk about betraying your ignorance. Few pro game developers in 2015 could made a compelling piece of software in 50 MB. That ended in the early days of Gameboy Advance. If you program it like an actual 8/16-bit game 50 MB is HUGE, but then how are we going to fully utilize the wonderous posabilties of FPGA?

And seriously, where are these numbers coming from when still so little is known of the actual product? I can't see how it's possible those prices are anything but pure conjecture.

How big was Sword of Mana and Pokémon Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald?? I just don't know, but look at TLZALTTP (link to the past) it was less than 50MB right?

There's a big difference between MB and Mb.

16-bit gen console cart games ranged from 0.125MB to 6MB.

I believe that LttP is a 1MB game.

[Psycho Punch]

Obvious post of the day: This console will be shit if it ever gets manufactured. Sorry.

[Arkhan Asylum]

The reprints were lesser quality? Info?

Clamshell instead of cool, colorful box.  No enhanced CD.  Less cool manual.  It lacked stickers or something?

I have my 2nd print sitting on a shelf.  I need to get rid of it because I Hate it.

[Nazi NecroPhile]

Obvious post of the day: This console will be shit if it ever gets manufactured. Sorry.

It'll be even worse.  At least shit can be used to fertilize your garden.

[Gredler]

after that video finished, this one popped up next,

THEY think everyone's excited about it, so it must be exciting, right?

[PukeSter]

I thought these guys wanted to somehow get sequels to games like Fantasy Zone and Ghouls n Ghosts from SEGA, Capcom, Konami, etc.

Now they realize how fucking stupid they are and are just trying to peddle the indie shit.

[LostFlunky]

This thing is getting lambasted everywhere.    It can't even catch a break on the Jaguar forum on Atari Age...

What a joke.  I am actually really feeling bad for these guys now, because this has gone from being a "neat idea" to a cluster fuck...  They are seeing things on message boards and then commenting on potentially adding them to the final product (now a JAMMA port?).  The more they say, the more it shows that they do not have their shit together now and never did.

They have gone completely off their proposed price point, which was "hopefully" $179, to now proposing $299 and $399 (FPGA) models...  which means that, out of the gate, some games would be incompatible with some systems. WTF???

They are expecting a userbase of 7000.   How many developers are going to jump at the chance to develop a game for an installed userbase of 7000, which is potentially fractured between the two different models they may offer?  Utter garbage....

I said I feel bad for them, and I do, because they are enthusiasts, and they wanted to do something fun and I would assume "profitable", (I mean - Mike charged $8/pc for the Jaguar cartridge cases), but the whole thing is unravelling online for everyone to see.  The only thing that hasn't changed,  is the stupid Jaguar case...

[Dicer]

They need to fucking focus, and not end up trying to make the console for Homer...


Stick to a simple design, a machine that can handle bad ass "16bit" style games, no fucking 3D no fucking Jamma, no fucking shit...

 

[GreatBlue Swirlof99]

I'm no longer hyped for this thing! It's gonna bomb bomb BOMB like at Hiroshima!!! No ones gonna buy this piece of shit even my Atari ST is more popular(is it?)! The launch titles are pathetic (a little like when SEGA Saturn launched and sonic wasn't a launch title >) hell! a port of Noah's ark, who the fuck would play that shitty game go play Doom or something WAY better! But let's give it the  element of doubt....maybe it might be great! :\
 
Give it a Chance, if not well a nice new shell for your Jaguar!

[o.pwuaioc]

I'm no longer hyped for this thing! It's gonna bomb bomb BOMB like at Hiroshima!!! No ones gonna buy this piece of shit even my Atari ST is more popular(is it?)! The launch titles are pathetic (a little like when SEGA Saturn launched and sonic wasn't a launch title >) hell! a port of Noah's ark, who the fuck would play that shitty game go play Doom or something WAY better! But let's give it the  element of doubt....maybe it might be great! :\
 
Give it a Chance, if not well a nice new shell for your Jaguar!

There does exist medicine for your condition. I'm no doctor, but maybe some lithium and chlorpromazine?

[CrackTiger]

This thing is getting lambasted everywhere.    It can't even catch a break on the Jaguar forum on Atari Age...

What a joke.  I am actually really feeling bad for these guys now, because this has gone from being a "neat idea" to a cluster fuck...  They are seeing things on message boards and then commenting on potentially adding them to the final product (now a JAMMA port?).  The more they say, the more it shows that they do not have their shit together now and never did.

They have gone completely off their proposed price point, which was "hopefully" $179, to now proposing $299 and $399 (FPGA) models...  which means that, out of the gate, some games would be incompatible with some systems. WTF???

They are expecting a userbase of 7000.   How many developers are going to jump at the chance to develop a game for an installed userbase of 7000, which is potentially fractured between the two different models they may offer?  Utter garbage....

I said I feel bad for them, and I do, because they are enthusiasts, and they wanted to do something fun and I would assume "profitable", (I mean - Mike charged $8/pc for the Jaguar cartridge cases), but the whole thing is unravelling online for everyone to see.  The only thing that hasn't changed,  is the stupid Jaguar case...

I think that they're more of the typical modern collectard and ego enthusiasts than real game playing fans. They're looking for a way to make themselves more legendary than they believe they already are.

They could have just started a game publishing company and setup an easy-to-use and affordable system for homebrewers to physically publish <16-bit console games. They could have also bought the rights to publish unreleased <16-bit games or titles like Magical Chase.

They set out to do the exact opposite from day one and continue to move further away. These aren't real game fans.

And if we think this thing is fucked up right now, you''ll see it continue to get comically worse until it finally flames out altogether.