Turbo Duo: too many pack-in games?

[Monster Bonce]

I was just watching an old commercial and saw that the TD shipped with five games. Does anyone else think this was too many and that it would have contributed to stunting software sales?

[Seldane]

Far too many. Had they included less games, the system would've been a lot cheaper as well. The whole "buy X and get X free games" is just a nasty scheme.

[offsidewing]

I wonder if there is a "Did NEC/TTI do ANYTHING right with the Turbo" thread.

[SNKNostalgia]

 

Hold on.....

 

 

[VestCunt]

Something I read gave me the impression the initial pricetag was going to be the same either way and the extra games and coupons were included to help offset the price.  Maybe this was PR nonsense, I wish I could remember where I read it.
Anyway, I don't think a couple extra pack-in games took away any significant software sales.
I also don't think there were too many pack-ins.  The 4-in-1 disc and Ys are awesome and would have instantly made the Duo my favorite console if I was a new gamer in 93.  I wish other systems would have included more than one stupid game.

Did the Japanese Duos include any games?

[Nazi NecroPhile]

Correction: it shipped with six games (don't forget Bomberman).  I don't think that the pack in games hurt game sales too much as they were already a year or two old (excepting GoT).  I agree with VestCunt that the Duo wasn't exactly cheap, so the inclusion of a few extra games made it a better value without dramatically increasing the cost to TTI.

[VestCunt]

Correction: it shipped with six games (don't forget Bomberman).

Seven games, Ys Book 1 and 2!

[nat]

I always saw the inclusion of so many games as a last-ditch effort by TTI to try and build more support and loyalty to the failing TurboGrafx camp.

In fact, I clearly remember thinking at the time "Wow, they're really desperate now. This is the beginning of the end."

[td741]

When the duo came out, very few stores in my area sold TG-16 games and those that did kept little stock.

The pack-in games, in my case, helped stave off the delay it took for the new releases and additional stock.

I also think that some of the advertisements used the retail value of the pack-in games to help offset the initial "high-cost" of the DUO.  I figure that the pack-in HuCard was probably taken from overstock.  Out of the 3 duo's I bought over the years, I think I got one Ninja Spirit, one Splatterhouse and a Dungeon Explorer 1.

[Keranu]

Turbo Duo had the best pack-in of all time, hands down. Technically it was only three games though.

[VestCunt]

Turbo Duo had the best pack-in of all time, hands down. Technically it was only three games though.

What do you mean?  Even if you didn't get a turbochip, Got, Bonk1+2 and Ys equal four..

[nat]

And Bomberman.

[Keranu]

Turbo Duo had the best pack-in of all time, hands down. Technically it was only three games though.

What do you mean?  Even if you didn't get a turbochip, Got, Bonk1+2 and Ys equal four..

I meant you only got three hard copy games, just to clear up confusion when people thought too many games were included which was the reason for the high price.

[PhilBiker]

The Duo was DOA regardless.  The CD technology was pushing it price-wise.  Personally I wouldn't have bought the Duo if the pack-ins hadn't been there.  I had played the Bonk games on a friend's system and loved them, so they were a big incentive for me.  I already liked Ninja Spirit so that was cool, too.  Gate of Thunder blew my effing mind.  I didn't learn about Bomberman till months after I got the system.

[Nazi NecroPhile]

I meant you only got three hard copy games, just to clear up confusion when people thought too many games were included which was the reason for the high price.

No, you mean that you received three pieces of media.  There's still six separate games (I refuse to count Ys separately - some may disagree, but they're wrong).

[Kitsunexus]

At least you GOT pack-in games, a buisness move that is SORELY needed today.

[Seldane]

I disagree. Maybe if Wii sports wasn't included, I'd consider getting a Wii. Nah, just kidding. But I'd maybe think about possibly considering it. Probably not though. Nonetheless, it would be slightly more appealing without Wii sports. And cheaper.

[Kitsunexus]

It's not the inclusion of the game, it's the inclusion of Wii Sports. If they included Twilight Princess with the Wii we'd have another shortage on our hands. 

[Keranu]

Screw Twilight Princess, Wii Sports worked great as a pack-in game. What pack-in game did Japan have? Wii Play?

[SNKNostalgia]

I do find it funny how the Wii has twice the ram and mhz of a gamecube, but runs with the same type of format so to speak. Yet, the graphics on some games like Zelda Twilight Princess that is also on gamecube is only 20% better looking on the Wii. I did kinda like the Wii Sports but they better make it more responsive if they ever make a really good baseball or boxing game. Fun for a pack in game that they really don't charge you for if you really think about it.

[Seldane]

Japan did not get a pack-in game. Lucky bastards.

By the way, SNK... I dunno where you heard that, but Twilight Princess looks identical on Wii and Gamecube. Identical. The Wii features the exact same architecture as the Gamecube. It IS a Gamecube, but with a slightly overclocked CPU and GPU.

[SignOfZeta]

I think that maybe it did ship with too many games...but maybe not. The fact that it came with so many games made the system more appealing. I might not have bought one if I had to drop $300, plus another $50 for just one game. I think a lot of people bought very few titles after that though because those five were so great.

All those games certainly didn't raise the price by any means. The system was, at the time, selling for much more in Japan, and included no games. They had to be skimming the edge of profitability at $300.

[termis]

Well, at the time of the Duo's release, TTI was already way behind in console wars, so they had to do something to try to get market share back from Sega & Nintendo.  I think most people at that point in time didn't give a rat's ass about the Duo and was supporting either the SNES and/or the Genny, especially considering the Sega CD has recently come out  (and this includes me at the time - oh how I realized the error of my ways years down the line).

It was a valiant effort, but as I said in another thread, once you fall behind in the video game market, it's pretty damn tough to come back.

[nat]

Yeah, that's really the way I feel, too. It was definitely a last-ditch effort.

[jimid2]

Yeah, that's really the way I feel, too. It was definitely a last-ditch effort.

Last ditch effort or not, it worked on me... I bought my Duo and then had to sell my TG16/TurboCD combo to help pay for it, but I'd seen a demo of Gate of Thunder in the CompuCenter where I bought it, and I just had to have it...

[kenomac78]

i thought it was  good deal and it showed off the power of the duo, as well as  allowing an already decent build up of games. i think in 92 93 or 94  ys was still a decent game that didnt seem dated.

pack ins are desperately needed again today!

[Monster Bonce]

I wonder if there is a "Did NEC/TTI do ANYTHING right with the Turbo" thread.

I know something they did right: they made some great consoles and games.

Some interesting reactions to the thread. I can sort of see both points of view now.

I agree, pack-ins are needed. I wouldn't have bought the Wii if it didn't come with a game. On the other hand, I was dubious about Wii Sports—thankfully it turned out to be great.

I suspect pack-ins stopped with the PlayStation with Sony marketing it as all things to all people? In this situation you wouldn't want a "kiddie game" if you were 25 and your parents wouldn't want you playing GTA if you were 10. Am I right? I didn't pay much attention to the PS when it came out (too busy doing other things) and have no idea so this is just a guess.

[Seldane]

My NES didn't come with a pack-in game. My SNES didn't come with a pack-in game. My Mega Drive didn't come with a pack-in game. The PS was certainly not the first console to be sold in this fantastic way. Down with pack-ins.

[Monster Bonce]

My NES didn't come with a pack-in game. My SNES didn't come with a pack-in game. My Mega Drive didn't come with a pack-in game. The PS was certainly not the first console to be sold in this fantastic way. Down with pack-ins.

Really? Wow. My SNES came with Super Mario World and my friend's Super Famicom came with it too. The Mega Drive here came with Altered Beast, if I recall correctly. The SMS had two games built in, an Alex Kidd game and some kind of dreadful maze game.

Maybe it depends on the territory or the time of buying.

Why don't you like pack-ins? Do you think they're usually inferior games or is it because you want something that exactly matches your tastes?

[MrFulci]

Systems used to release many different versions of themselves. Such as Sega Genesis, with model 1 system, had a Altered Beast system, and a "Core" system without a game. Later there was a system that included Sonic 1 as a pack-in

Later, they did similar with the Model 2. There was a Core (No game), Sonic 2, Streets of Rage 2, probably some sports bundle, etc.

Sega CD model 1 I think had a Core System, and a Sewer Shark System. Later, the Sega CD model 2 had a Sewer Shark, Tomcat Alley, and some football game packages.

I don;t keep up with games as I used to, however all these pack-ins have seemed to have slowed down quite a bit. However, I have seen, 'bundles" advertised. In the past I've seen a gamecube in some blister packing, that included at least a game and a 2nd controller).

[Seldane]

Why don't you like pack-ins? Do you think they're usually inferior games or is it because you want something that exactly matches your tastes?

That's right. I don't like pack-ins because they are usually games that I'm (and probably many many others, I've heard tons of complaints about Wii Sports, for example) not interested in, and more importantly: without pack-ins, the system itself will be cheaper. Again, they often say "buy X and get X free game", but we all know this isn't true at all. You do pay for the game, and more often than not - you pay for a game that you don't want.

[offsidewing]

Whether you hate on sports or don't have dexterity beyond your fingertips, the Wii Sports game does an excellent job showcasing the system's controller interface. 

For me, regardless of the pack-in, I always set my mind to beating (if applicable) the title included with the system.  If I don't like it, there's zero replay value.

I guess that's why people can't give away Keith Courage now...

[CrackTiger]

I meant you only got three hard copy games, just to clear up confusion when people thought too many games were included which was the reason for the high price.

No, you mean that you received three pieces of media.  There's still six separate games (I refuse to count Ys separately - some may disagree, but they're wrong).

Ys was released as a single game on like 6 platforms before the PC Engine version bundled I & II together and both games continued to receive seperate ports for another decade or so until Ys I & II Complete for PC. Unless you count the PS2 port of Ys I & II Complete, Ys I & II have only ever appeared together twice in 20 years on a dozen formats.

Anyone who refuses to count Ys I & II as seperate games is wrong. 

Whether you hate on sports or don't have dexterity beyond your fingertips, the Wii Sports game does an excellent job showcasing the system's controller interface.

This is the same reason why the Turbo Duo pack-ins were so important. It showcased what you could expect from the 3 game formats/both media it plays. Both Ys & GoT were perfect examples of the benefit of CD technology and all the HuCard games were examples that you could still expect great games in card form.

[td741]

The SMS had two games built in, an Alex Kidd game and some kind of dreadful maze game.

Didn't those pack-ins come with the SMS-2?  The original model of SMS's came with that Safari Hunt, Hang On and the hidden maze game.  (I don't even remember playing that maze game to be honest. )  I think the first SMS systems had the Safari Hunt and Hang On games in a cart, and then they eventually got built in.

[SignOfZeta]

I wonder if there is a "Did NEC/TTI do ANYTHING right with the Turbo" thread.

I know something they did right: they made some great consoles and games.

Well, I think what we are talking about here is If NEC USA, or TTI did anything right for the US market. I don't think that they made great consoles and games because they didn't make any consoles or games. All that stuff came from Japan except maybe for Darkwing Duck, or Talespin, or some other unplayable shit.

Given that the US market was heavily action oriented back then, and the PC Engine was so RPG and sim oriented at that time (the TTI years), I think the honest truth is that the PC Engine didn't provide what Americans wanted (cheaper hardware, and games that cater to illiterate sports freaks) and Americans didn't want what the PC Engine provided (text heavy lolicon otaku stuff that is expensive to translate).

My friends and I all loved the Duo, but we also loved Dragon Warrior, Final Fantasy, etc which were niche titles in the US back then. Now they sell just as well in the US as they do in Japan, if not better. Things were different back then.

[kenomac78]

youre right about the sports freaks, i think sports games are fine, but i could never buy nfl, nhl, nba, mlb year after year forever!  of corse the PSX did sort of finally offer an 'all things to all people' mentality. it was almost like a PC with its variety and good to garbage ratio. i am sure that if the 16 bit generation were today, or the anime/otaku movement caught on 10 years before it did *** then it would have had a better chance. but if you ask me otaku fandom is just as loud and annoying and mindless as sports andom. if you  look at the timeline of gams  systems were loaded with elaborate stuff early on and as time went on the got stripped away .  atari gave you sticks paddles and a game. intellivision and coleco gave you  add ons and games, nintendo gave the robot the gun or the. power pad. sega and nec (burn me if you want) started the whole one controller thing, which no everyone does, and i personally hate. now you only get a demo disc if that, save for the wii. but oncepeople realized  you could save money by limiting thee things, knowing people will buy them anyways there went the fun.  but truly only super mario bros, and maybe sonic were the only pack ins that i would consider hot must have games that moved a system. the rest were just there to give you somehing to play. 

also note that no console that did not have the annual sports gave has never reached mainstream popularity in america. i think that says it all about the kind of games people want here. or at least tha kind of game that will motivate alot of people to go buy something just to play the same thing over and over.


***i do believe that anime  was viable at least 20-25 years ago a was evident with such great shows as battle of the planets and robotech and etc, but it did not reach mainstream (read: annoying fans who only like it because its suddenly the in-trend thing to like)  till after the TG was long gone, i think. 

of course in my young days anime fandom was about appreciating quality, realisistic, dramatic animation that you couldnt find in the US.  not about being a bunch of  whiny losers who cant get any because they spend their whole life walled up in their rooms with a manga in one hand and a bag of corn chips in the other while dreaming of someday finding some perfect cat like girl french maid butler, wishing they were japanese so someone would finally understand them.

[Kitsunexus]

robotech

That show is the most boring anime on Earth, well I'm sure there's a more boring anime but I have yet to see it.

60's anime is shit. Shit like Kimba, Speed Racer, Astro Boy, the world needs to forget that shit. Horrible, horrible shit.

80's anime is a mixed bag. For every piece of shit like Robotech you have an Akira.

For my money, anime peaked in the 90's with stuff like Slayers Perfect, My Neighbor Totoro, Battle Angel Alita, Tenchi Universe, Outlaw Star, Azumanga Daioh, Gundam Wing, G Gundam, Princess Mononoke, Spirited Away, Yu Yu Hakusho and a couple of others. The only anime that even looks WORTHY of seeing today is Paprika, which I will torrent later.

Any kids anime is generally shit, with a couple of exceptions in My Neighbor Totoro and Spirited Away, and maybe some others that I can't think of right now. The only good thing about Pokémon is some of the monsters like Mewtwo and Pikachu.The storyline sucked. Digimon was even worse, with lamer monsters. The only one I even liked was Gomamon.

It should be a felony for Dragonball Z and Naruto to exist. This felony should carry the death penalty. The original Dragonball is OK however...

I'm not a fan of the overhyped anime shit. This is like Ghost in the Shell, Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, Excel Saga, Ninja Scroll, X, etc... You're supposedly not with it if you don't like these, if I have to like these to be "with it" then by God I don't want to be with it! Boring boring shit fests.


So yeah, that's what I think of anime.

[RuninRuder]

I don't care about anime in general, but Robotech rules.

[GUTS]

If you don't like Cowboy Bebop, then you shouldn't be watching anime in the first place since you obviously have no taste.  That's like saying Casablanca or The Godfather are shit movies.

[Nazi NecroPhile]

Ys was released as a single game on like 6 platforms before the PC Engine version bundled I & II together and both games continued to receive seperate ports for another decade or so until Ys I & II Complete for PC. Unless you count the PS2 port of Ys I & II Complete, Ys I & II have only ever appeared together twice in 20 years on a dozen formats.

Anyone who refuses to count Ys I & II as seperate games is wrong. 

Really?  Did those earlier versions come on a single cartridge/disc and play from beginning to end with no break in the action other than a cut scene?  My point is that if no other versions of the game existed and Ys I & II were renamed to just Ys, nobody would play it and think 'Hey, what the fuck's going on here.  This is two completely separate games glued together.'  I'll partially concede the point and revise my previous statement to 'I refuse to count Ys on TG-CD separately - some may disagree, but they're wrong'. 

PS - learn to spell separate. 

[shubibiman]

I've always wondered why the DUO didn't get more success in the US with such a pack. 6 games! Japanese NEC consoles didn't include games at all. Sodipeng, the company that imported pc engine consoles in France, did sell games with the machines. We also had a pack that included a Coregrafx, a multitap, 2 pads and one game : this one was quite popular at the time and I think much contributed to the "success" of NEC consoles in France.

[TR0N]

robotech

That show is the most boring anime on Earth, well I'm sure there's a more boring anime but I have yet to see it.

60's anime is shit. Shit like Kimba, Speed Racer, Astro Boy, the world needs to forget that shit. Horrible, horrible shit.

80's anime is a mixed bag. For every piece of shit like Robotech you have an Akira.

For my money, anime peaked in the 90's with stuff like Slayers Perfect, My Neighbor Totoro, Battle Angel Alita, Tenchi Universe, Outlaw Star, Azumanga Daioh, Gundam Wing, G Gundam, Princess Mononoke, Spirited Away, Yu Yu Hakusho and a couple of others. The only anime that even looks WORTHY of seeing today is Paprika, which I will torrent later.

Any kids anime is generally shit, with a couple of exceptions in My Neighbor Totoro and Spirited Away, and maybe some others that I can't think of right now. The only good thing about Pokémon is some of the monsters like Mewtwo and Pikachu.The storyline sucked. Digimon was even worse, with lamer monsters. The only one I even liked was Gomamon.

It should be a felony for Dragonball Z and Naruto to exist. This felony should carry the death penalty. The original Dragonball is OK however...

I'm not a fan of the overhyped anime shit. This is like Ghost in the Shell, Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, Excel Saga, Ninja Scroll, X, etc... You're supposedly not with it if you don't like these, if I have to like these to be "with it" then by God I don't want to be with it! Boring boring shit fests.


So yeah, that's what I think of anime.

Can you say generation gap what you think of the anime from the 60s,70s,80s is crap... but to people who grew up on 'it have fond memorise for it.

I don't think those period for anime were that bad i enjoy shows such as, Robotech and all.

I got np with what came out of the 90's in general for anime.

Afther that anime went down hill if you ask me... it's all about eye candy now and doing rehash's these days.

Still every generation has it's share of crappy shows no matter what "time period it comes from past or persent.

Just like with video games as well.

Btw i see you mention Gundam Wing i couldn't stand that show please,i found the characters in it to be annoying. Plus you didn't know what side they were on... or what there motive's were.

I rather watch a old school gundam serise suchs as, Mobile Suit Gundam and Gundam 0083 Stardust Memory befor i watch Gundam Wing again.

[TurboXray]

robotech

That show is the most boring anime on Earth, well I'm sure there's a more boring anime but I have yet to see it.

60's anime is shit. Shit like Kimba, Speed Racer, Astro Boy, the world needs to forget that shit. Horrible, horrible shit.

80's anime is a mixed bag. For every piece of shit like Robotech you have an Akira.

For my money, anime peaked in the 90's with stuff like Slayers Perfect, My Neighbor Totoro, Battle Angel Alita, Tenchi Universe, Outlaw Star, Azumanga Daioh, Gundam Wing, G Gundam, Princess Mononoke, Spirited Away, Yu Yu Hakusho and a couple of others. The only anime that even looks WORTHY of seeing today is Paprika, which I will torrent later.

Any kids anime is generally shit, with a couple of exceptions in My Neighbor Totoro and Spirited Away, and maybe some others that I can't think of right now. The only good thing about Pokémon is some of the monsters like Mewtwo and Pikachu.The storyline sucked. Digimon was even worse, with lamer monsters. The only one I even liked was Gomamon.

It should be a felony for Dragonball Z and Naruto to exist. This felony should carry the death penalty. The original Dragonball is OK however...

I'm not a fan of the overhyped anime shit. This is like Ghost in the Shell, Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, Excel Saga, Ninja Scroll, X, etc... You're supposedly not with it if you don't like these, if I have to like these to be "with it" then by God I don't want to be with it! Boring boring shit fests.


So yeah, that's what I think of anime.

Ehh but what do you know, you're just a kid still. Either way, thank god there are people who don't share your opinion.

[kenomac78]

i was hoping my comments would not spark a discussion about what series is better than what. but rather about if the mainstream popularity of anime would have helped the TG 16, if it would have happened just a little earlier.  or would have  NWC not ben able to do 1+1 and not try to cash in like they didnt do anyways,

[Monster Bonce]

 

Didn't those pack-ins come with the SMS-2?  The original model of SMS's came with that Safari Hunt, Hang On and the hidden maze game.  (I don't even remember playing that maze game to be honest. )  I think the first SMS systems had the Safari Hunt and Hang On games in a cart, and then they eventually got built in.

You're right. I got confused. That maze game was woeful.

[Monster Bonce]

Funny thing is, there was a small Anime buzz in parts of Europe at the time. Akira got a cinematic release and two VHS releases (one double video in Japanese with subtitles and one awful dubbed version with a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles voice actor). The British SNES magazine Super Play was very into RPGs and general Japanese stuff. And France, of course, has never treated comic books and animations as the pond scum of entertainment/arts. But when the SNES really took off a lot of that stuff died away. If I'm honest, the main reason I keep coming back to the PCE is to play Japanese stuff that didn't get a fair hearing in Europe, particularly RPGs.

[SuperDeadite]

Just for the record it should be noted that shitty Robotech is NOT actually anime.  Some crappy company took 3 totally unrelated shows:  Macross, Mospedia, and Southern Cross and combined them.  The story itself was completely rewritten by the localization company, Robotech was basically just a cheap way to save money by "borrowing" animation.

As for anime itself, it has certainly gone downhill, most likely because most anime is now just pumped out of a computer.  Like modern Disney movies, there is no real work or effort put into the final product any more.  Also Gundam Wing does quite suck, it is easily the worst Gundam show out there not counting that new Seed bullshit.

[RuninRuder]

Robotech did not come about as a "cheap way to save money."  Macross was the one that Macek wanted to bring over, but due to episode-count standards at the time, he couldn't convert it by its lonesome; so he combined it with two other series that Harmony Gold had acquired the rights to.  (Look around the web for more info on this.)  RT's staff writers like Greg Finley did a fantastic job with it, especially considering the circumstances, and if you hear those guys reflecting on the show today, it's clear it meant more than "money making" to them. 

And for the record, I think the "purists" are insane.  I much prefer Robotech's Macross Saga to SDF: Macross, and I rank Masters about on par with SDC: Southern Cross.  Mospeada does crush New Gen, however.

[TurboXray]

Robotech did not come about as a "cheap way to save money."  Macross was the one that Macek wanted to bring over, but due to episode-count standards at the time, he couldn't convert it by its lonesome; so he combined it with two other series that Harmony Gold had acquired the rights to.  (Look around the web for more info on this.)  RT's staff writers like Greg Finley did a fantastic job with it, especially considering the circumstances, and if you hear those guys reflecting on the show today, it's clear it meant more than "money making" to them. 

And for the record, I think the "purists" are insane.  I much prefer Robotech's Macross Saga to SDF: Macross, and I rank Masters about on par with SDC: Southern Cross.  Mospeada does crush New Gen, however.

Yup. And the sound track to Robotech is much better than Macross. I haven't heard the original sound track to SDC: Southern Cross or Mospeada.

Like modern Disney movies, there is no real work or effort put into the final product any more.

What!? Are you actually serious or just talking out your ass? It's one thing not like or be interested in these (newer) Disney movies, but to say that "no real work or effort put into the final product" is just ignorant.


Anyway, back then I loved the fact there were anime art and cinemas in TG/DUO games. American art and design was (usually) pretty horrid. I didn't care for the Euro look/design either, but I admit it was usually better than the American style.

[Monster Bonce]

I couldn't say it's true of Europe as a whole but I've always thought that some French games were quite similar to Japanese. I wonder if this is related to the positive French attitude to « bandes dessinée » (comics) and animation?

And then, more recently, there's this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_nouvelle_manga