I Purchased Sapphire!

TurboHuC6280 · 06/22/2005, 09:49 AM

Heh. I guess some guy has a boatload of those alleged "bootleg" copies of Sapphire. I ordered one so that I could get my hands on it to further investigate these things. It may not be one of the "legit" versions, but I think it's certainly a better deal than some lesser games (like Kaze Kiri and Magical Chase).

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4315&item=8200713107&rd=1

This guy has sold several of these within the last few days. I suspect that he'll be listing more as well. I wonder how many people paid upwards of $400 for one of these, only to end up getting would could be a "fake".

I think it would be fun to try to discover what exactly happened with this game, and why there are all of these alleged "fakes" out there. Who knows... They really could be part of a legitimate second print run as described in the above link.

I think it's a good game for me to start using that sealed/brand new Arcade Card Pro that I got a month ago.

akamichi · 06/22/2005, 10:57 AM

From the pics, it looks like the real thing. I don't have a copy myself to compare with but if you can't tell the difference between this version and the real thing, then how would somebody know it's a fake?

It's possible that a bunch of old stock just turned up somewhere and nobody knows the origin. The seller's explanation seems plausible especially with similar things happening with Circus Lido and Akiyama Jin Suugaku Mystery. Both showed up on amazon within the last 4 or 5 years and both were commanding crazy high prices beforehand.

Circus Lido is practically common now but the Akiyama Jin game can get up into the couple thousands of $$$.

I don't really see the reason to counterfeit some 10 year old game with such precision. I realize that some scammer could enter any collectors' market and entice those people with authentic looking "rare" stuff and make off with the cash. However, in this case, the accuracy of the packaging and seemingly thorough attention to detail would suggest, IMO, that there was a lot of effort to reproduce this so-called fake.. perhaps more effort than it was worth to scam the market.

Anyway, it'd be nice to have Sapphire selling at lower prices and I wouldn't mind snagging one of these questionable copies. If no one can prove it's fake, then it isn't.

TurboHuC6280 · 06/22/2005, 11:58 AM

Good point. It doesn't matter to me if it's a fake, to be honest. Frankly, nobody knows if Hudson didn't just happen to have someone else make a second run of this game in the first place. If it were done through a different company, then it could explain the slight discrepancies between the colors and print quality in the two different versions of the game. It's hard to tell.

They really do *look* authentic enough. VideogameImports had some info on this a few years ago:

Code Select


BEWARE OF COUNTERFEIT COPIES OF SAPPHIRE ON PC ENGINE ARCADE CD!!!!!!
Yes, unfortunately it's true; there are counterfeit copies of the very rare and expensive shooter GINGA FUKEI DENSETSU SAPPHIRE. We received 2pcs of the game today as a part-exchange from a regular customer (who I am sure does not know that they are not original). Upon opening the box, something just didn't look quite right. However, they were fully factory sealed with the little tear off strip, they had the spine card, which even had the little slant on the back as with all PC Engine spines. We haven't opened them but they appear to even have a registration card inside. Luckily, we had a used copy of the game in stock and could make a comparison, and it was only then that we could see that it was obviously a counterfeit game, albeit done extremely professionally! Points to look for include:

The orange colour (see the Arcade CD logos at the front, side and back) is a brighter shade in the counterfeit version. The original is slightly darker and is extremely lightly 'dotted' with with very tiny white dots. They are barely visible to the eye, but they are there. Looks like the counterfeiters were unable to replicate this.

The artwork on the front, of the girl, appears very slightly out of focus.

The most noticeable part is on the back cover, where there are pictures of the 2 Arcade cards. The counterfeit version is much more fuzzy looking, and the picture of the planet is unclear. With the picture of the the Arcade Card Duo, on the original version, you can see a very thin white outline around the part of the card with the artwork on it. On the counterfeit version, there is no white outline.

I would recomment everybody considering buying a new or even used copy of this game, to be extremely careful. Even if you are buying from people or business held in high esteem, they may be unwittingly selling you a counterfeit copy.

There is no mention as to how the actual disk appears in comparison to an "original" of this game. Someone, a few years ago, published some side-by-side comparison photos. I think it was NCSX. I'm going to see if I can track it down.

TurboHuC6280 · 06/22/2005, 05:26 PM

There's another one online.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4315&item=8200821974&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

twor2005 · 06/22/2005, 05:32 PM

This was never at the top of my list to get, but I'm interested in how this turns out. Please report on the disc when you get it. If its a real pressed disc, that would be pretty nice.

I've often wondered about the quality of Dracula Xs you see on ebay from Hong Kong- whether they are legit, and if not, how good is the reproduction? Heck it would be just fine with me if nice reproductions were available for all Turbo Games. I would pay $30 a pop for them no problem.

Keranu · 06/22/2005, 08:04 PM

These almost look worth getting, but I would like to know just how legit it is.

akamichi · 06/22/2005, 09:57 PM

zborgerd, I'd be interested in hearing about what you think of the quality of the "fake" once you get it. I'm going to keep a look out for other auctions and hopefully I can get one.

Update:
Wow, this guy must have a number of them. There was a total of 3 I've seen so far. I was able to get one, but I guess we'll see. Hopefully the seller won't have a problem with my zero feedback. :p

TurboHuC6280 · 06/22/2005, 11:36 PM

Quote from: akamichizborgerd, I'd be interested in hearing about what you think of the quality of the "fake" once you get it. I'm going to keep a look out for other auctions and hopefully I can get one.

Update:
Wow, this guy must have a number of them. There was a total of 3 I've seen so far. I was able to get one, but I guess we'll see. Hopefully the seller won't have a problem with my zero feedback. :p

He seems like a really nice guy so far. Has been very communicative, and indicated that he'd ship it out tomorrow.

Apparently, he purchased an A4 sized box full of them, from Japan, in 2001. What's interesting is that it apparently had a Hudson label on the box.

akamichi · 06/23/2005, 12:31 AM

Quote from: zborgerdHe seems like a really nice guy so far. Has been very communicative, and indicated that he'd ship it out tomorrow.

Apparently, he purchased an A4 sized box full of them, from Japan, in 2001. What's interesting is that it apparently had a Hudson label on the box.

Man, I wish I could have found a deal like that. A4 is fairly large. Proabably 20 or so copies. I'd like a get a couple copies.

I'm still not convinced these are fake. If what has been said is actually true, these seem to be more on the legit side than ever. It's pretty common that dead stock is found all over the place. Lost and forgotten until someone stumbles across it. I've seen instances of this many times over the course of the time I've lived in Japan. Hell, I've cleaned places out of their dead stock of sealed/new Famicon and PCE games that a clerk just found somewhere in the stock room.

Ok, I admit... I want these newly found copies to be legit. I'm not gonna lie about it.

TurboHuC6280 · 06/23/2005, 09:16 AM

Quote from: akamichiMan, I wish I could have found a deal like that. A4 is fairly large. Proabably 20 or so copies. I'd like a get a couple copies.

I'm still not convinced these are fake. If what has been said is actually true, these seem to be more on the legit side than ever. It's pretty common that dead stock is found all over the place. Lost and forgotten until someone stumbles across it. I've seen instances of this many times over the course of the time I've lived in Japan. Hell, I've cleaned places out of their dead stock of sealed/new Famicon and PCE games that a clerk just found somewhere in the stock room.

Ok, I admit... I want these newly found copies to be legit. I'm not gonna lie about it.

I agree. I hope that they are real simply because it makes a previously rare game more available to people at reasonable prices. $500 for a game is downright ridiculous.

I've seen many games where there were packaging discrepancies. It could mean any number of things... Hudson could have hired someone else to do the printing and packaging. Companies get CDs pressed and packaged by different companies all of the time. I've seen second runs of audio CDs that have had some pretty significant packaging differences.

I suppose that he could have sold them all at outrageous prices. I'm not sure why he didn't. It seems like he just wants to give these to good homes. Maybe he just doesn't feel it's right to scam people for $500. I guess I'll find out what sort of condition it is in when it arrives. For all I know, it could be a CDR; but it certainly *looks* authentic. I've seen these "counterfeit" copies go for $500 before, to unknowning buyers. I've written sellers to let them know that the copy that they've offered is possible one of these "counterfeit" versions, and often they insist that they've never heard of the existence of these fakes.

I'll post more details for everyone when it arrives.

By the way. He says he does have a few copies left.

pixeljunkie · 06/23/2005, 10:20 AM

I bought one [had to resist buying multiples] It was shipped today....cannot wait to get my hands on it. Seems totally feasible for the "2nd run" story to be true. Interesting about the box he bought them in and Hudson's inability to confirm them being fake. I'm crossing my fingers some concrete evidence about the origin comes out eventually. Either way, $60 is awesome.

akamichi · 06/23/2005, 10:39 AM

I'll add more warm fuzzies to this conversation.

Turns out that I know of this seller because we've both been on the Turbo list for quite some time. I've never had any kind of trouble with anybody on the Turbo list and he's no exception. He does know a lot about the PCE too. Search the list archives if you want I'm pretty sure he's in there somewhere.

It's true he could have easily sold all of the copies for much more, but it does seem that he just wants to make a highly sought after game available for a reasonable price.

For that, respect++ to the seller.

BTW, he's sending mine out right now.

pixeljunkie · 06/23/2005, 10:47 AM

Quote from: akamichiI'll add more warm fuzzies to this conversation.

Turns out that I know of this seller because we've both been on the Turbo list for quite some time. I've never had any kind of trouble with anybody on the Turbo list and he's no exception. He does know a lot about the PCE too. Search the list archives if you want I'm pretty sure he's in there somewhere.

It's true he could have easily sold all of the copies for much more, but it does seem that he just wants to make a highly sought after game available for a reasonable price.

For that, respect++ to the seller.

BTW, he's sending mine out right now.

Yeah, his price is awesome..."alternate" version or not. He could easily get more for these...or scam people. But he's cool and friendly and reasonable. And like you said, he seems to want to just make them available for people...very cool.

Fudoh · 06/23/2005, 11:38 AM

Let me join the discussion !

Actually I'm the one who bought them in Tokyo a few years back and put up those Ebay auctions now. If you have any questions, just let me know.

Since Ebay kicked one (out of ten) of the auctions and I first want to clear things up with them, I've put up a small site where you can get the game (in case you're interested).

The address is: wayback.sapphire.anime4ever.de

Please let me make clear that I sell them as what they are: Sapphire reprints of unknown origin. Back a few years Hudson mentioned that these could be "waste", something like pre-production samples or a production run rejected due to sub-par quality - not illegal, but not meant for sale either. I simply don't know.

Thanks,
Fudoh

pixeljunkie · 06/23/2005, 11:44 AM

Quote from: FudohLet me join the discussion !

Actually I'm the one who bought them in Tokyo a few years back and put up those Ebay auctions now. If you have any questions, just let me know.

Since Ebay kicked one (out of ten) of the auctions and I first want to clear things up with them, I've put up a small site where you can get the game (in case you're interested).

The address is: wayback.sapphire.anime4ever.de

Please let me make clear that I sell them as what they are: Sapphire reprints of unknown origin. Back a few years Hudson mentioned that these could be "waste", something like pre-production samples or a production run rejected due to sub-par quality - not illegal, but not meant for sale either. I simply don't know.

Thanks,
Fudoh

awesome man! Thanks again!

TurboHuC6280 · 06/23/2005, 01:34 PM

Quote from: FudohLet me join the discussion !

Actually I'm the one who bought them in Tokyo a few years back and put up those Ebay auctions now. If you have any questions, just let me know.

Since Ebay kicked one (out of ten) of the auctions and I first want to clear things up with them, I've put up a small site where you can get the game (in case you're interested).

The adress is: wayback.sapphire.anime4ever.de

Please let me make clear that I sell them as what they are: Sapphire reprints of unknown origin. Back a few years Hudson mentioned that these could be "waste", something like pre-production samples or a production run rejected due to sub-par quality - not illegal, but not meant for sale either. I simply don't know.

Thanks,
Fudoh

Welcome to the forums! Nice to see you here. Looks like everyone is excited about your box full of Sapphires.

Liquid Snake · 06/23/2005, 06:14 PM

I want one copy!!!!!!!!!!

Fudoh · 06/23/2005, 07:45 PM

Just drop me an email (if you haven't yet). You'll find the email on the page I've put up ( wayback.sapphire.anime4ever.de ).

Thanks !

Liquid Snake · 06/23/2005, 10:29 PM

Payment sent!!!
Tobias, thanks for everything
I'm looking forward for this game

TurboHuC6280 · 06/23/2005, 10:38 PM

Quote from: Liquid SnakePayment sent!!!
Tobias, thanks for everything
I'm looking forward for this game

Woo Hoo! Sapphires for all!

This will be a day that goes down in PCE gamer history.

xolik · 06/24/2005, 02:51 AM

Yeah, I spilled the beans and told him what forum I came from when I put in my order.

ElSeven · 06/24/2005, 03:58 AM

this is exciting! im crossing my fingers, reloading my inbox every 5 seconds hoping i didnt miss the boat ;)

Fudoh · 06/24/2005, 06:50 AM

Shipped the first pile yesterday. European fellows should have it early next week. International buyers sometime later next week...

akamichi · 06/24/2005, 07:54 AM

Quote from: FudohShipped the first pile yesterday. European fellows should have it early next week. International buyers sometime later next week...

I can't wait!

Quote

I almost fainted after seeing that. Maybe I can get a 2nd one?

I don't want to prevent anyone from having a chance of picking one up though.

TurboHuC6280 · 06/24/2005, 08:21 AM

WOW!!!!

I'm glad that everyone else gets a chance at getting one of these like I did. We'll all be playing Sapphire in a few days. I had *no idea* that you had this many when I said you had a lot of these. I suspected about 5 or 10, but this just blows my mind.

Thanks Fudoh!

TurboHuC6280 · 06/24/2005, 08:40 AM

I found a thread with comparison images. I forgot that it was in these forums:

pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=360.0

Quote from: Bebbe on 06/01/2004, 08:13 AMHere the pictures for a better understanding:

pixeljunkie · 06/24/2005, 10:24 AM

so excited I can't stand it

Liquid Snake · 06/24/2005, 10:26 AM

Quote from: zborgerd on 06/24/2005, 08:40 AMI found a thread with comparison images. I forgot that it was in these forums:
pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=360.0
Quote from: Bebbe on 06/01/2004, 08:13 AMHere the pictures for a better understanding:

Frankly speaking, I really don't care "if" it's counterfeit as long as it's complete and the disc isn't the home-made CD-R.

I don't have $500 to burn on this game but who cares......

I think Sylphia will be my last game to get

TurboHuC6280 · 06/24/2005, 11:07 AM

Quote from: Liquid Snake on 06/24/2005, 10:26 AMFrankly speaking, I really don't care "if" it's counterfeit as long as it's complete and the disc isn't the home-made CD-R.

I don't have $500 to burn on this game but who cares......

I think Sylphia will be my last game to get

In case you missed it in the Sylphia thread:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=62053&item=8200983226

Fudoh · 06/25/2005, 04:51 PM

Later last week I had the chance to borrow an "approved" original from a friend of mine and do a few comparison shots. Unfortunately I didn't have access to an original manual and my digicam is quite shitty, but it should give you an idea.

(Approved) Original always to the left, reprint to the right.

I'm on holiday now, but you can always reach me via email and a friend will take (good) care of sending the remaining games after the payment has been received. (He actually put up another one on ebay as well...)

TurboHuC6280 · 06/25/2005, 07:50 PM

Wow. Is there any chance we can get a larger image of that? That's fascinating.

The ring in the center of the reprint's disk is indicative that it's not official... Unless it's just an illusion. I don't think I've ever seen a PC Engine disk with that sort of reflectivity. The center ring looks larger as well.

If it is a "fake", the effort involved in duplicating the game is superb. The limitations of the materials at the fabrication facility are perhaps the only limitation.

Fudoh · 06/25/2005, 08:02 PM

Maybe, I have to get a better digicam and borrow my friend's copy again. Let's see.

ParanoiaDragon · 06/28/2005, 01:03 AM

Well, I ended up buying it now, & today ebay cancelled the auction, thankfully, it ended obviously, & I had already paid, the only downside, is that we can't give eachother feedback.

Fudoh · 06/28/2005, 07:44 AM

Sometimes Ebay is ridiculous, while especially on Ebay.com thousands of burned DVD-Rs with asian movies are available and you can easily track down a cheap copy of Dracula X, they cancel something like that.

From my understanding Ebay didn't cancel the auction by themselves, but because somebody feeled pissed and reported the auction. Such a poor soul - nothing better to do than to denounce...

Feel free to leave feedback in this thread once you receive your game

akamichi · 06/28/2005, 09:43 AM

Quote from: zborgerdThe ring in the center of the reprint's disk is indicative that it's not official... Unless it's just an illusion. I don't think I've ever seen a PC Engine disk with that sort of reflectivity. The center ring looks larger as well.

Yeah, I looked at the pictures a little closer and noticed the same thing. I've seen a lot of bootleg games (especially for PS1) and in every case, the game is so obviously bootlegged. Mostly a crappy print job and the bootlegger's logo give it away.

This Sapphire is much different.

This one is much tougher to distinguish. Without side by side comparisons (thanks Fudoh!), it would be near impossible. Anyway, I noticed that the orange heart on the spine cards is a little different. I'm not sure if that's just the lighting but it looks darker on the "fake" side.

lord_cack · 06/28/2005, 09:51 AM

Quote from: FudohSometimes Ebay is ridiculous, while especially on Ebay.com thousands of burned DVD-Rs with asian movies are available and you can easily track down a cheap copy of Dracula X, they cancel something like that.

From my understanding Ebay didn't cancel the auction by themselves, but because somebody feeled pissed and reported the auction. Such a poor soul - nothing better to do than to denounce...

Feel free to leave feedback in this thread once you receive your game

Probably Bullseye

....I really have no idea....

TurboHuC6280 · 06/28/2005, 03:50 PM

I don't think that it's unlikely that a few "power sellers" out there might have some of these that they pawn off every once in a while for $500. I would suspect that there are those that don't want the world to know about the existence of this "alternative print", in order to keep values ridiculously high on this game. I have seen this very same "reprint" sold on Ebay several times before under the guise of an "original".

It make me wonder if "reprints" like this could saturate the market a bit, if the game value would drop since it would be possible for everyone to have access to the game. I'm still interested in seeing what arrives. I'm hoping I'm impressed by it.

Paladin · 06/28/2005, 04:54 PM

I'm waiting as patiently as I can to see how this is. I can honestly say that I don't care if its a pirate as long as it works correctly in my Duo-RX. Paying 500+ dollars for this just isn't an option for me, especially now since I'm in college.

It would be kinda cool if this type of copy would bring down the originals in price. If it dropped below $200 I would think about purchasing an original. That is after I get the cheaper games that I want. Anyway someone let me know how this copy turns out. I ordered mine sometime after everyone else who did, so it will get here sometime next week hopefully.

lord_cack · 06/28/2005, 06:04 PM

I am interested in any copy, that is as legit looking as that. As long as it plays properly with a Duo system and doesn't screw up the machine...I don't care if it was burned onto paper I want a copy

TurboHuC6280 · 06/28/2005, 10:38 PM

Quote from: lord_cackI am interested in any copy, that is as legit looking as that. As long as it plays properly with a Duo system and doesn't screw up the machine...I don't care if it was burned onto paper I want a copy

It sure is exciting. I've always want to play this game.

TurboHuC6280 · 06/29/2005, 09:22 PM

Judging by the feedback on Ebay, a few people have already have theirs... And they seem to be *very* pleased. ;)

Nemo · 06/30/2005, 05:18 PM

I got mine today, it's definitely an amazing replication, too bad I won't be able to play it till I get my Duo-R back.

pixeljunkie · 06/30/2005, 05:23 PM

Quote from: NemoI got mine today, it's definitely an amazing replication, too bad I won't be able to play it till I get my Duo-R back.

Did it come via DHL?! God I hope they left mine on the doorstep!!!

Liquid Snake · 06/30/2005, 05:45 PM

Quote from: NemoI got mine today, it's definitely an amazing replication, too bad I won't be able to play it till I get my Duo-R back.

Post Office left me a note to pick it up tomorrow morning.
So happy that my copy is here, well, almost

Too bad that my Duo is in the box and I don't know where it is since I'm moving to a new apartment....damn....

Nemo · 06/30/2005, 05:45 PM

Quote from: pixeljunkie
Quote from: NemoI got mine today, it's definitely an amazing replication, too bad I won't be able to play it till I get my Duo-R back.

Did it come via DHL?! God I hope they left mine on the doorstep!!!

No, USPS.

Fudoh · 06/30/2005, 06:03 PM

QuoteDid it come via DHL?! God I hope they left mine on the doorstep!!!

All games have been sent registered, so there shouldn't be any "doorstep" dropfoffs. You'll need to sign for it.

TurboHuC6280 · 07/01/2005, 10:22 AM

Quote from: Liquid Snake
Quote from: NemoI got mine today, it's definitely an amazing replication, too bad I won't be able to play it till I get my Duo-R back.

Post Office left me a note to pick it up tomorrow morning.
So happy that my copy is here, well, almost

Too bad that my Duo is in the box and I don't know where it is since I'm moving to a new apartment....damn....

I also got a note from the post office. I'm going to try to pick it up today.

pixeljunkie · 07/01/2005, 11:12 AM

holding mine in my hands right now!

Love it, nobody should worry about these hurting the actual collector's market for the authentic one though...in my opinion its obvious these are "alternative" [but I come from a printing background]. VERY PLEASED though. Gonna' look great with my other games. Can't wait to get home and play it!!!! Thanks again!!!!

torgo · 07/01/2005, 12:00 PM

I hate waiting

I loved this game when I played it before, so this is truly a great find. I'm so jazzed-up about this that I hooked the Duo back up last night, and I got the new version of MagicEngine setup on my PC.

This is gonna rule!!!!

akamichi · 07/01/2005, 01:41 PM

I got a registered mail today and it turned out to be some forms from my company! What a freaking let down!

That about ruined my day.

Oh well. At least now I know people have been getting them so mine should be arriving soon I hope.