RPGs In English

[OldRover]

This is the definition I've gone by for many years...

What separates RPGs from other games where you "play a role" is all in the telling of the story itself. While we may think of "experience systems" and the like defining the genre, it's not the only basis. An RPG is meant to be a "novel". In a novel, the main focus of the story is on the character or characters, and how they change. An RPG is the same...focus on the characters and how they change throughout the story. Other games tend to focus on the story itself, making them "short stories" (it doesn't mean the story itself has to be short, it's a literature term to describe a story that's based mainly on events rather than focusing on its characters). With this in mind, the early Zelda games cannot possibly be called RPGs, because the focus was never on Link, but on the story around him. Games that we all know to be RPGs...take a close look at them...there's usually very detailed character development. Ironically, this definition makes it difficult to consider the original Final Fantasy an RPG...the main focus is on the story, and there's very little character development. The only thing that could save its bacon is the fact that the characters do in fact change at one point. But that's truly grasping for straws, and I've considered Final Fantasy to be an adventure game for a long time, NOT an RPG.

This is the only definition that cannot be countered. Any other definition can easily be countered, and you end up right back where you started..."all games are RPGs because you play a role in all games".

[Joe Redifer]

Seems like the general opinion on [Chrono Trigger] is that it gets a LOT better after about 10 hours of playtime. I agree with that statement. The jungle is boring and ugly.

So stick with it until the halfway point?  I hear the game is just a touch over 20 hours long.  And that's fine by me, as I don't like games where a single playthrough takes 60 hours.  I'll take shorter and replayable over longer and "shelfable" any day!!

[Seldane]

Yeah that's right. It took me 28 hours to complete it, but I really savored it. Played every single sub-quest and gained a few levels too many (it was far too easy near the end because of this, don't make the same mistake as I did, level 60 is far too high).

[Ninja Spirit]

Yeah Joe stick with it dawg. Back in 1996 in addition to Super Mario RPG, Chrono Trigger was the highlight of my summer vacation, me and this other guy used play the game over the phone and had the TV up loud so we could hear where we were at.

The fun really begins after kicking Magus' ass with the Masamune is which you're stuck in 65 Bil BC looking for that one thing to put it together.

[TurboXray]

...  I have also been very fond of the Phantasy star games. Maybe cause III was the first genesis rpg I ever played. Most people don't like 3 but I always thought it was quite good.

I *hated* PS3. That game was a piece of crap in comparison to PS2. If you played 3 first, then I can see why you probably don't hate it, but coming from PS2 the game just sucked. I was very hyped about that game before it came out. It's on my the top 5 biggest game let downs. I've been trying to erase that game from my memory for years. Pfft - even Traysia>PS3.

[Seldane]

Yeah Joe stick with it dawg. Back in 1996 in addition to Super Mario RPG, Chrono Trigger was the highlight of my summer vacation, me and this other guy used play the game over the phone and had the TV up loud so we could hear where we were at.

MEGA SPOILER

Why are you spoiling all the fun? That was a very unnecessary thing to post!

Bonknuts: Both Phantasy Star III AND Trasia rocks your socks! Awesome games!!

[RuninRuder]

I thought Phantasy Star 3 was pretty cool, better than people give it credit for being.  But there's no doubt that the great Phantasy Star 2 destroys it.

[Joe Redifer]

What Tone posted is EXACTLY where I'm at, getting the BS stone to mend that sword.  Then I fight the boss from Valis 2.  Then it bets better, or at least it had better!

I liked Phantasy Star 3.  It's my least favorite PS game, but I still enjoyed it quite a bit.  The mood of the game was so lonely and sad... but for a great reason, in my opinion.  I just got Traysia.  I haven't really started it yet, but the super-jerky scrolling might put me off.  But I will give it a shot.

[SNKNostalgia]

I find it funny how people judge games so critically when they are in their late 20's or early 30's and didn't play these games back when they came out. It really does make a difference if your like 14 years old or something playing the game back in 95 for example. My experience with games like FF6, Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana, Phantasy Star 4 and other RPGs was phenomonal for me and almost all my friends that played these games as well. Nowdays, even I find it harder to play these games as they seem outdated and too simplified at times. It is just the way it is. It is almost like you miss out on these games when you play them 10 years later.

[Seldane]

Yeah, it's the whole atmosphere (graphically, musically and story-wise) that makes Phantasy Star III so great. I like PSII, but PSIII is very serious compared to it, and I like serious. A lot.

SNKNostalgia: It's called.... Nostalgia. I'm sure it's all in your head. Besides, kids tend to be more serious with games, that's why you probably enjoyed the games more when you were little. Same with me.

[RuninRuder]

Yeah, it's the whole atmosphere (graphically, musically and story-wise) that makes Phantasy Star III so great.

I totally agree, PS3 had great atmosphere.  I enjoyed PS2's atmosphere too.  I don't really know how to describe it.  I guess it seemed more bizarre and abstract than most RPGs during that era.  But the super-huge, super-tough dungeons were what I loved most about PS2.

[OldRover]

I remember playing PSIII back when it was new. I didn't like it at all. When PSIV came out, it was SO much better. I didn't play the original until recently though, and thought it was primitive but at least playable.

[SNKNostalgia]

SNKNostalgia: It's called.... Nostalgia. I'm sure it's all in your head. Besides, kids tend to be more serious with games, that's why you probably enjoyed the games more when you were little. Same with me.

Well yeah, Nostalgia and being that young had something to do with it. Also, it had to do with the systems that were available and other games that were made back then. There wasn't a PS2 back in those days, so the graphics and sound seemed to blow you away more. This was before I owned anything CD-Rom format until the Sega CD a little later, and then the PS1. I mean it is harder to go back to playing the NES and saying, "Damn, look at the graphics yo!!!"

[termis]

PS3 was certainly a good game on its own, but still, it was bit of a letdown for me as well.  I was soooo much looking forward to this game, but it just didn't deliver. 

The generation thing was really cool and added tons of replay value, but it didn't have the "punch in you the gut" type storylines of Neifirst scene or the endings of PS2, was missing the very cool fight animations, music wasn't as suspenseful, and just generally didn't feel very "Phantasy Star" -- and I know I'm not alone feeling that way.

[ParanoiaDragon]

Now I'm wandering through 65 billion BC on Chrono Trigger.  I'm not stuck or anything, I'm just bored.  The music is complete ass in this era (if you can even call it music), the graphics are horrible and it's just not fun at all.  My desire to continue playing the game is decreasing rapidly.

Seems like the general opinion on this game is that it gets a LOT better after about 10 hours of playtime. I agree with that statement. The jungle is boring and ugly.

greedostick: Every game you mentioned ROCKS!! Awesome games, expecially Landstalker.

I've only played Lunar 1 for GBA. I assume it is the same game as the MCD one, sans the fmvs (they consist of pictures with text instead). I enjoyed the second (MCD) game more, but never actually found much enjoyment in either of those games.

I have the GBA version of 1 as well, it seems about as different as the Sega CD one is, in comarison to the PS1 version.

[OldRover]

Well, y'all have another English RPG coming your way from us at Frozen Utopia, and then down the road will come another...and I do mean a real epic, spanning multiple discs!

[Joe Redifer]

Well yeah, Nostalgia and being that young had something to do with it. Also, it had to do with the systems that were available and other games that were made back then.

I didn't play through Phantasy Star 3 and 4 until just a year or two ago at the most.  I had rented both games once when they came out and I didn't care for them.  Lots of things about PS4 blew me away.  Voices that are clean in cartridge games still blow me away.  When I see the TurboGrafx doing scrolling like it does in Gate of Thunder I am blown away.  I was blown away when I recently acquired Art of Fighting for the Arcade Card and saw it doing some sort of pseudo-scaling effect with the whole play area, having never have played the game before.  I was blown away by the scaling sprites in the race in Chrono Trigger.  Sprites cannot be scaled on the SNES, they just can't!  But Chrono Trigger has software-controlled sprite scaling and it looks great.  I was blown away by the graphics in The Adventures of Batman & Robin on the Genesis, having recently purchased it.  I feel it is still plenty possible to be blown away by old games this day in age.

[TurboXray]

I feel it is still plenty possible to be blown away by old games this day in age.

I totally agree. Games from back in the day still impress me. Even on NES or SMS. You can still capture some of that excitement/feeling.

 I didn't get to play PS4 when it came out, but I remember my friend having it and how it was more like PS2 than PS3. I did play about 1/4 into it a few times, but I'm saving it for a vacation gaming week or a rainy day.

I did play Chrono Trigger back in the day. I didn't have a SNES anymore, but I got to borrow my brothers. I was never blown away by CT, but I admit it was really fun. I liked how the game was not Final Fantasy. 

[Keranu]

Dude, I even find a lot of pre-NES games that blow me away, especially for Intellivision. You can find treasure in any age.

[CrackTiger]

I've only played Lunar 1 for GBA. I assume it is the same game as the MCD one, sans the fmvs (they consist of pictures with text instead). I enjoyed the second (MCD) game more, but never actually found much enjoyment in either of those games.

I have the GBA version of 1 as well, it seems about as different as the Sega CD one is, in comarison to the PS1 version.

The GBA port is an original version based on assets from the Saturn/PSX 'Silver Star Story' game.

The cinema stills are all from the SSS fmv cinemas. Although most of the in game art has been redrawn once again, its made to look very similar to SSS and is very different from the Sega/Mega-CD 'Silver Star' game.

The gameplay was changed once again and I could only handle playing through once before selling it.

Dude, I even find a lot of pre-NES games that blow me away, especially for Intellivision. You can find treasure in any age.

You mean like Treasure of Tarmin's 3D dungeons that did Phantasy Star-style animated 3D 4 to 6 years before PS? 

I finally got an Intellivoice recently and was blown away by the amazing in-game voices.

[Keranu]

You mean like Treasure of Tarmin's 3D dungeons that did Phantasy Star-style animated 3D 4 to 6 years before PS? 

I finally got an Intellivoice recently and was blown away by the amazing in-game voices.

Exactly! I am impressed by both gameplay and technical sides of games from any generation. Heck, I think Atari and Intellivision games impress me even more these days because with how much things have evolved, I can really see how amazing a game was for it's time. Equally impressive are games made before the 70's like Spacewar! which was made in like 1962 and was the first "networked" game to my understanding or a game like Tennis For Two which is one of the earliest games ever made and was displayed on a oscilloscope.

By the way, I got an Intellivoice around a year ago, but still don't have any games for it. I have heard it in person before though and it's amazing.

[termis]

I finally got an Intellivoice recently and was blown away by the amazing in-game voices.

B-17 Bomber kicks major ass with the intellivoice.

[SNKNostalgia]

Don't get me wrong. I still can appreciate a game for what it was and is now. Still, there are times you can just pop in an outdated game and get the mood you get at times like: OK, time to play something newer-ish or something. It is like that Tool song Stinkfist, "It's not enough, I need more. Nothing seems to satiesfy. I don't want it, I just need it. To breath, to feel to know that I am alive." A little exagerating, but a nice metaphor. I still play my NES and everything, but it seems like you have to try harder to play it at times. You just tend to enjoy the games a hell of a lot more when you play them when they came out.

I didn't get into video games until the NES and Master system era around 86-87, so that may have to do with why I never play atari and other oldest school systems. I did always like the 1st person view tank combat game on atari that I played at my friends house when I was 5.

[Joe Redifer]

I'm pretty much the opposite.  I have to try harder to play systems like Xbox360 or even the PS2.  I can play them for awhile and I definitely do enjoy them, but after a bit I just start thinking "fuk dis sh!t, gimme a 2D sidescroller of some sort!"

[Keranu]

I was severely dissappointed with the last generation of games. Not saying it didn't have any good games, but to me it lacked great games. I also had to try harder to enjoy them.

[RuninRuder]

I dug the PS2.  Best system since the PCE and Genesis. 

The current generation doesn't interest me at all to this point.

[Seldane]

I consider the current generation to be the worst ever since the first one (Atari, Intellivision and that stuff). The last generation kinda sucked too, at least the Xbox and Gamecube. The gen before that was all right, but I didn't like the PS1 or the Dreamcast.

[RuninRuder]

I consider the current generation to be the worst ever since the first one (Atari, Intellivision and that stuff). The last generation kinda sucked too, at least the Xbox and Gamecube. The gen before that was all right, but I didn't like the PS1 or the Dreamcast.

I agree with everything you just said.

You seem to be a good judge of consoles, FM-77.  I don't understand how you went wrong during the 16-bit era.   

[CrackTiger]

I finally got an Intellivoice recently and was blown away by the amazing in-game voices.

B-17 Bomber kicks major ass with the intellivoice.

Plus B-17 has Afterburner style flight sequences complete with roatating horizon. Space Spartans is similar with even more voice and Galaxy Force II style battle sequences. 

[Keranu]

I consider the current generation to be the worst ever since the first one (Atari, Intellivision and that stuff). The last generation kinda sucked too, at least the Xbox and Gamecube. The gen before that was all right, but I didn't like the PS1 or the Dreamcast.

We can't even really judge the current generation so far since it hasn't even lasted a year yet, but to me it seems mostly the same as last. I'm hoping the Wii will change this with it's different approach.

[Seldane]

The Wii is just a repeat of the previous generation. Minus the good games, that is.

[Joe Redifer]

I agree that this generation seems to be identical to the last with the same exact types of games.  Gamers these days are PISSED if every single game they buy doesn't last at least 40 hours for a single playthrough.  I get tired of these types of "story games".  Some of the best games ever made can easily be completed in less than an hour.  Not every game needs tons of story, voice acting and cut scenes.  And my favorite cut scenes are Turbo-style with still or animated 2D frames, not full blown FMV or polygons.

[Keranu]

I agree, I hate how modern games are all about how many hours it takes to complete. It also pisses me off how games automatically save every time the screen changes. I want to play a game that gets straight into the action and can be beaten in one nice sitting. From all the new games I've played, I think New Super Mario Bros. does that the best, but it's still not quite what I want.

[SNKNostalgia]

I have always like 2D over 3D in a sense, but you got to admit there are some bad ass games made for like the PS2 and a few for Gamecube. I personally just like good games in general. Most of these games are made by Capcom, Konami, Namco, Enix and Squaresoft.

I own atleast 30 PS2 games. Most of these consist of games like Silent Hill, Metal Gear, Final Fantasy (X-2 sucks though), Ring of Red, Onimusha, Devil May Cry 1, Ace Combat, Gradius III + IV and V, Silpheed, Rygar, Dragon Quest 8. As for Gamecube there is a few: Resident Evil 1 remake, 0 and 4, Metal Gear Solid remake, Tales of Symphonia, Metroid Prime (It may be a first person, but just play the game and you will be suprise how well they pulled it off) and Eternal Darkness. See I don't play crap games like Big Mutha Truckers and Need for speed part 30 or something. I just like games period, I try not to be too picky or else you limit yourself to playing the same old shit all the time.

Another thing is it seems like a lot oldschool gamers aren't patient gamers anymore. They want to beat all their games in a short time. I find it harder to pick up an RPG game than a few years ago. As for this generation, there really isn't all that many games to choose from atleast until the next year. The only games I like for 360 are Dead Rising, Lost Planet and I guess Gears of War.

[Joe Redifer]

I have Tales of Symphonia.  It sucks.  It's not an RPG.  It's a freakin' puzzle game with a story (that never seems to end).  Sometimes I just want to move on with my life rather than devote weeks of time for a single playthrough.  Like I said elsewhere, I'll take short and replayable over long and shelfable any day!

[Ninja Spirit]

Yeah that's pretty much Lufia 2. Puzzles puzzles puzzles.

[ParanoiaDragon]

Lufia 2 is beautiful, seriously, I want a real sequal on a console.  I do have the GBC & GBA games, but have yet to beat them.  They're both kind of boring.

[GUTS]

This generation rules if you're into shooters.  First and third person shooters are like old school games to me- you can just pick them up and play them, they're usually less than 10 hours long, and they're all action.  Games like Lost Planet, Quake IV, and Gears of War are what this gen is all about, I freakin love them.

[SNKNostalgia]

Yeah, shooters does seem to be the weapon of choice lately. Even Rainbow Six Vegas is pretty smooth compared to all ther other Clancy titles. It is funny how Gears of War and Rainbow Six Vegas has very simliar game mechanics minus the primary views in the games. I like the idea of blind fire and cover behind walls. Lost Planet plays more classic like than I expected, which is nice.

I like to have different games where you can play for short periods of time and then long epic games that you will put up after a year. Here is the thing with games you would only play once every couple months that take a long time to play: If you have a good number of these games, then the time evens out to where you will break out a game if you havn't played it in a while. Games like Snatcher only calls me out to play every 1 year. If you have a decent amount of games to choose from, then you will end up playing another just in time when it has been a while. It is good to have all these types of games. It just depends on the mood you are in.

[Joe Redifer]

I beat Chrono Trigger.  I think I got ending #236,743,539,524 out of 6,387,587,346,587,456,874.  It's a good game, but not one I'd want to play through again.  It's about 5000 times better than Chrono Cross (except for the music).  Phantasy Star 1 and 4 are much better games as is Lunar 2.

[CrackTiger]

I beat Chrono Trigger.  I think I got ending #236,743,539,524 out of 6,387,587,346,587,456,874.  It's a good game, but not one I'd want to play through again.  It's about 5000 times better than Chrono Cross (except for the music).  Phantasy Star 1 and 4 are much better games as is Lunar 2.

I never tried Chrono Cross, but I agree that the other games you mentioned are better.

I don't think that there are many unique endings to Chrono Trigger, just minor variations on two or three.

[Ninja Spirit]

Good job Joe, at least you experienced it.

I just played a some Secret of Evermore earlier. For being something made on American soil, I liked it alot. Not quite feeling the music, as most of was that one thing that almost drove Joe from finishing Chrono Trigger: dungeons with ambient noises instead of music.

I last beat the game back in 97'.

[CrackTiger]

Good job Joe, at least you experienced it.

I just played a some Secret of Evermore earlier. For being something made on American soil, I liked it alot. Not quite feeling the music, as most of was that one thing that almost drove Joe from finishing Chrono Trigger: dungeons with ambient noises instead of music.

I last beat the game back in 97'.

Let me know if you manage to finish it.

[Seldane]

Jeremy Soule made the music for Secret of Evermore. The SNES sound chip was too weak for his type of music. I really like some of his later music though (PC RPGs).

[SNKNostalgia]

Beat Chrono, now play some Secret of Mana. It is a really fun game. Secret of Evermore at the time it came out just disappointed me a lot. It seemed like a not so great version of Mana without the classic fantasy world feel and you use a bone as your first weapon. I may give it another try just for the hell of it though.

Anyways, I am playing Samurai Shodown RPG on my Neo Geo CDZ right now. Yes, Japanese only and horrible loading times, but it is more bearable on the CDZ system. Great game, there is a translation patch coming out hopefully this fall. Over the years of owning it I beat it with 3 characters on the shorter Amukusa chapter and now I am half-way through playing it on the much longer Mizuki chapter. There are Neo CD emus out there that will run this game with the patch pretty well. This gets rid of the long loading completely.

[Turbo D]

I could never beat the final boss on mana back in the day. It was some giant dragon that totally kicked my arse.

[Ninja Spirit]

Playing SSRPG on Saturn myself. Kills me since the game is all in kanji.

It ain't like Far East of Eden where it's kanji on the main item menu, and in the item description, is the hiragana/katakana equivalent.

[GUTS]

I don't know why Evermore gets so much hate, I enjoyed the game.

[Joe Redifer]

I used to own Secret of Mana right when it came out.  I did not care for it.

[Keranu]

Couldn't you get like bazookas or something in Secret of Evermore? I really want to play that game since I've barely played it!