My worthwhile thoughts on a few PCE games

[GUTS]

Since runin's opinions on PCE games are self-confessed "completely worthless to any real gamer PLUS I'm gay and scrawny", here are some worthwhile thoughts on some recent (and not so recent) purchases.

HanaTakaDana- AWESOME.  I've always had a soft spot for horizontal cartoony shooters like Cotton and Ordyne (pure nostalgia, I know the game sucks), so I was stoked as hell to get Hana.  It plays like a typical hori, but there are some unique twists thrown in; each level has a hidden puzzle piece that you can find along with the piece you get from beating the boss, the game has a password feature, and your character grows bigger when you get power ups and smaller when you get hit.  You actually have to be small to find a couple puzzle pieces, and being small means you can avoid projectiles much easier although your firepower is reduced, so that works nicely into the game and isn't just some added on gimmick.  The graphics are pretty nice too, there's even a bit of parallax going on in a couple levels.  The only rough spot is some slowdown on level 3 I believe where you encounter a huge boss ship, but its over quickly and doesn't pause the game or anything.  This is easily one of the best turbochips EVER.

The Manhole- I paid $3 for this and STILL felt ripped off.  It's a graphic adventure that simulates the look of a Mac computer complete with windows and lots of empty desktop space since apparently this game didn't play full screen on the mac.  Your view window takes up about 1/2 of the screen, seriously, the rest is all empty gray space.  The actual game is about as lame and dated as you'd imagine a shittily drawn precursor to Myst to be.  Click on stuff, something badly animated happens, then click on something else.  That's it; no puzzles, no talking, nothing interesting at all.

Kisou Louga- Interesting strat RPG, I only played through the first battle but it has possibilities.  The cinemas are absolutely top notch, it's too bad the actual game graphics are just mediocre.  The game plays like a typical strat RPG, BUT with the hook that if you have more than one of your characters facing an enemy, they can all attack at once which is pretty cool and I'd imagine makes for some serious strategy later on.  Excellent cover art on this one too.

[GUTS]

Oh yeah I forgot to add that Hanatakadana needs a joystick.

[CrackTiger]

Oh yeah I forgot to add that Hanatakadana needs a joystick.

Maybe that was why you couldn't appreciate "The Manhole", because you didn't use your joystick. 

[Keranu]

Hah, great thread.

I don't care what you say about The Manhole, I'm still dying to play that game!

[Joe Redifer]

Back when I was a little asshole of about 18 years of age, The Manhole was sitting in the used games case of the local game store, Powerfully Gay Games... errr... I mean Power Play Games.  Anyway it just sat there and sat there.  I asked to rent it.  Nope.  I asked to borrow it for free.  OK.  I took it and played it, for free, and then took it back the next day.  Even though it was free, I still wanted a refund!  True story!

[PCEngineHell]

Hey dude, you've reached Mr. Dragon. I'm not here, but leave a message at the tone. catch ya' later dude.

Hello, this is Mr. Rabbit. I can't come to the phone right now, because I'm preparing some hot tea and some milk for some visitors. Please call back another time, thank you.

[Joe Redifer]

I remember Mr. Rabbit.  That douchebucket.  Who changes the greeting on their answering machine to reflect that they are making tea and milk?  Does he change the greeting when he is using the bathroom?  "Hello, this is Mr. Rabbit.  I can't come to the phone right now because I am busy dropping a huge man-sized load that will require multiple flushes.  Please call back at another time, thank you."  Does he have two answering machines because creating a new greeting might take about as much time as making tea.  "Hello, this is Mr. Rabbit.  I can't come to the phone right now because I am busy creating a new greeting for my answering machine.  Please call back at another time, thank you."  Mr. Rabbit can go to hell.

[Tatsujin]

Hah, great thread.

I don't care what you say about The Manhole, I'm still dying to play that game!

imo it's a funny game for some easy "shut the brain down" game sessions with friends (after a ton of beers). makes more fun with a mouse ;)

[esteban]

Well, the Manhole isn't really a game, per se.

Good old slownerve had to give me an education on this title because I had never heard of it before.

Now, what about Minesweeper for PCE? Has anyone played that? I haven't.

I've wanted to play Hanatakadakahanadaka and Liquid Kid(s) for ages, so I'm glad Hana is a worthy game. Rumor has it that Liquid Kids is fun as well.

[ParanoiaDragon]

Well, the Manhole isn't really a game, per se.

Good old slownerve had to give me an education on this title because I had never heard of it before.

Now, what about Minesweeper for PCE? Has anyone played that? I haven't.

I've wanted to play Hanatakadakahanadaka and Liquid Kid(s) for ages, so I'm glad Hana is a worthy game. Rumor has it that Liquid Kids is fun as well.

The're both great games. 

Kisou Louga, from what I remember, had really well done music.  I wanna pick up the 2nd one.

[Keranu]

I really want to play the PCE version of Minesweeper actually! I love the Windows version so much, seriously. This would make a great review for my site if I had that game.

[esteban]

I really want to play the PCE version of Minesweeper actually! I love the Windows version so much, seriously. This would make a great review for my site if I had that game.

An old friend of mine loved Windows Minesweeper as well, although this was back in the early days. I always found the game frustrating because there is too much "luck" involved. My friend, though, had insanely fast completion times. His strategy was quickly clear out huge sections of the field (lucky guesses), then, slow down a bit and finish. I think he spent a bazillion hours playing it, because he was godlike. I still don't see the appeal of the game, though.

[Nazi NecroPhile]

I've played a bit o' minesweeper on the Duo.  The quest mode offers a little variation from windows minesweeper, but the basic game play is the same.

[ParanoiaDragon]

K, I have it if you ever want to check it out

[Keranu]

An old friend of mine loved Windows Minesweeper as well, although this was back in the early days. I always found the game frustrating because there is too much "luck" involved. My friend, though, had insanely fast completion times. His strategy was quickly clear out huge sections of the field (lucky guesses), then, slow down a bit and finish. I think he spent a bazillion hours playing it, because he was godlike. I still don't see the appeal of the game, though.

There actually isn't any luck involved. The first click might seem like luck, but I believe the game is programmed so you never hit a bomb on your first click, so right after the first click, it all depends on strategy.

[esteban]

An old friend of mine loved Windows Minesweeper as well, although this was back in the early days. I always found the game frustrating because there is too much "luck" involved. My friend, though, had insanely fast completion times. His strategy was quickly clear out huge sections of the field (lucky guesses), then, slow down a bit and finish. I think he spent a bazillion hours playing it, because he was godlike. I still don't see the appeal of the game, though.

There actually isn't any luck involved. The first click might seem like luck, but I believe the game is programmed so you never hit a bomb on your first click, so right after the first click, it all depends on strategy.

Yeah, I'm sure you're right. I should have clarified: my friend's strategy for obtaining super-fast completion times was to recklessly clear out huge swaths of the board in the first second or two. This was entirely based on getting lucky. I didn't like this at all. I prefer games where high scores cannot be the result of dumb luck, like Tetris.

That's not to say that I will never be able to appreciate minesweeper, though.

[GUTS]

Genpei Tomaden (or whatever the hell it's called)- Horrible game in pretty much every category.  The collision detection is beyond awful, and the game has more cheap/unfair hits than one of those Color Dreams games on NES.  And speaking of NES, that's where most of the visuals look like they were ported from, except for the parts where your sprite is gigantic.  Those parts actually look pretty cool, and would be pretty cool except that your stupid character bounces around like the ground is made out of springs every time you duck and get up.  Plus it's nearly impossible to avoid getting hit by stuff since you take up 1/3 of the screen and your sword swings REALLY slow.  The game gives you unlimited continues, but by the time you get close to the end like I did and get stuck on some part where you have to beat 2 or 3 ultra cheap/hard parts in a row, you'll probably just give up in frustration (like I did).  The only parts of the game that were almost decent are the sidescrolling levels where you are a small sprite, if you can stomach the cheap hits then they provide a bit of enjoyment, right up until you are forced to play one of the overhead view (good god, so horrible!) or large-sprite view (UGH) levels.  Only recommended if you can buy it for $5.

[RuninRuder]

Nice review.  I'd always heard that the first one was actually the better of the two (I haven't played either yet).

[nat]

I'm assuming that review is in reference to the first game, in which case, GUTS is spot-on. The second game (Samurai Ghost in the USA) is a far far better game, for whatever it's flaws.

This game may have the worst graphics of any game released on the PCE/TurboGrafx. Saying it looks like NES graphics is an insult to the NES, as the NES could pull off halfway decent visuals when the programmers felt like trying.

I'm not sure who said this first game was better, but I'd like to meet them and hear about why they think that. Afterwards, I'd like to give them a lobotomy.

The horrible hit detection coupled with the absolutely vile visuals make this a "must not own". I don't recommend it, even if someone gives it to you.

[RuninRuder]

I'm not sure who said this first game was better, but I'd like to meet them and
hear about why they think that. Afterwards, I'd like to give them a lobotomy.

Check out the PC Engine Bible site.  The first one got a respectable three "meats" score, while the second earned only two.  Apparently, lack of variety and a high level of difficulty were the sequel's downfalls.

[nat]

That game doesn't deserve even a one meat score.

sunteam_paul, you are nuts!

[Keranu]

The second one is definitely much better, but I do appreciate the first one a lot for it's mix of different gameplay - I always like that in games. I probably wouldn't say it's as bad as GUTS made it out to be (he was actually more generous than I expected), but the second one provides more straight up solid action. By the way, nat, if you're playing the game in Magic Engine, the game might look especially really bad and have black backgrounds. I haven't played the real version, but I believe that is an error in Magic Engine because I recall seeing screenshots where there is actually a detailed background.

[nat]

I haven't played the real version, but I believe that is an error in Magic Engine because I recall seeing screenshots where there is actually a detailed background.

Show me.

I did play the game via emulation, but it wasn't in Magic Engine. Magic Engine costs money.

The background wasn't black, but it was some awful brownish color with, and I mean this quite literally, a couple pixelated lines. Looked like something a 4-year-old would draw using Windows Paint.

[GUTS]

Nat is right- the backgrounds (at their finest shining moment even) barely consist of some badly drawn mountiains in the middle of a sea of black or brown.  The overhead levels use really amatuer tiles where everything looks like it's being emulated (sprites jittering around like they're not actually part of the floor, lots of flicker) even though I was playing it on real hardware.  Like I said the levels where your character is big don't look too bad as long as you ignore the gigantic blocks of sprites that flicker whenever you fight another huge character, but again the backgrounds are usually only a moon or a something small on a large black space.  I think there were a couple levels where the background had some actual detail, but I had to play haflway through the game before seeing them, and they obviously weren't impressive at all since I barely remember.

[GUTS]

De Ja- I'm only a couple hours into this, but I thought I would give a preliminary report since runin is dying to find out about this game.  First off let me say that if you don't know any japanese and don't understand why other people who don't would want to play a Snatcher-style adventure game, well I  don't know exactly myself.  Usually I stay away from these types of games, but De Ja intrigued me for a few reasons- the Indiana Jones setting, the really nice artwork, and the fact that every single line in the game is spoken (I can pick out a few japanese words here and there, so that is a huge help).  So far it hasn't been too overwhelming, and I've been able to figure out basically what's going on.

The intro starts with some dude in a mayan(?) temple, stumbling across some treasure.  There's a sceptre he really digs, but as he's freaking out about finding treasure, a hot chick in white appears behind him.  The graphics are really nice during this part, but strangely there's no sound other than voices!  She eventually turns into a huge monster and he falls down into a chasm, then the game flash forwards to Japan in the present day (I assume), and you play the part of a small time private eye.  An old man arrives and gives you the sceptre you saw in the intro, and that's where your adventure begins.  Right now I'm moving around town talking to people, getting information on the sceptre.  The game is nice enough to show animated little icons for your commands so you always know what you're doing (speaking is a little face moving it's mouth, showing items is a little backpack opening, etc).  Moving around town is done by menu command too, there's a little walk icon then you can pick where you want to go.  It's pretty easy so far, and inventory management seems limited to just showing stuff to people so far, I don't really forsee any King's Quest type puzzles.

The voices are all great, and you can turn them off if you want to, but since they add to the experience I leave them on.  One thing that kind of sucks is that the music is all in PSG (is that the right term?) format, no redbook since the whole CD is packed with voice acting.  The music is still great though, in fact the theme that plays when you're at your office is lifted right from the vocal line from an old BeeGees song. Everytime I go back to my office I can't stop humming disco, it rules.

The only problems I've had so far are that some of the animation is a little wierd, like whoever programmed it didn't really know what they were doing.  Sometimes things anime really smoothly (like background animation), but during the cinemas wierd things happen like the whole character disappearing then reappearing in a different pose, or a mouth not moving until halfway through their speach.  It's not a big deal, but it's just odd since the art and graphics are so polished otherwise.  I mean it seems like NEC really, really went all out with this game, I've played the original version a little on an X68000 emulator and it's obvious they had to redraw everything, record voices, even add the cinemas since I don't remember a cool intro on the X68000 version.

I think runin would love this game, and anybody else who enjoys digital comics.  I'm going to keep playing, I'll give an update if I encounter a game stopping part where you absolutely HAVE to know japanese to progress.

[RuninRuder]

Thanks for the preliminary report.  It definitely sounds like something I'd dig, so hopefully I'll be able to find a good deal for it like you did.

By the way, GUTS, that Travelers game you were talking about yesterday does indeed look sweet.  One of us needs to track that down.   

[CrackTiger]

I love it when GUT's thread is right next to Runin's on the list. 

[GUTS]

Yeah I think Travelers is my next PCE game, if I can ever find it.  Hopefully it's cheap.

[GUTS]

Dungeon Master Theron's Quest- What a travesty.  In some ways this version is superior to the original, but in the important areas it's a complete train wreck.  The good points- The graphics are very nice, the cinemas aren't technically the greatest but they at least add a halfway interesting story to give you some motivation to continue, and the music is alright.  Now for the bad!  The first and most annoying thing about this version is that you have to beat every dungeon in one sitting.  That's not a big deal on the first couple, but on the last oh say 5 if you don't have at least 2-3 hours to set aside for gaming, don't even bother playing.  This wouldn't be SO bad if the game was more straight forward and revolved mostly around fighting, but Dungeon Master is 50/50 fighting and puzzle solving.  So what happens if you get stuck on some stupid pressure plate puzzle and need to take a break?  Tough shit!  Turn your Duo off and you have to start completely from scratch in that dungeon.  No midpoint saves, no exiting the dungeons and saving, nothing.

The second thing that is ultra annoying is that you don't get to keep anything you find in the dungeons.  In this sense it's almost like a rogue game, you start from square one in each dungeon, even having to re-pick your companions from the measly amount they give you to choose from (I think it's around 7, but I can't remember exactly).  It completely ruins the fun, I mean what's the point of spending an hour on a puzzle and finding that SWEET piece of armor if you're just going to lose it when you beat the dungeon?  If you are a big fan of rogue-likes then this aspect may not bother you though.

The last thing that sucks is how after you find the artifact you need, you have to find your way back out of the dungeon.  Artificial lengthening at its finest!  No new puzzles or anything, just a boring treck back through places you've already been with maybe a couple monsters to harass you.

[CrackTiger]

TTI sent me Dungeon Master Theron's Quest along with a Lords' T-shirt after receiving one of my letters. I probably wouldn't have picked it up otherwise back then.

Like all games I owned, I played through it several times in a row, but it never became enjoyable.

I was disappointed with the graphics/art and wished they'd done more to deepen and expand what I assumed was a straight computer port. Now I know that its actually a neutered port.

They ending is cool with anime battle scenes, but it only made me wish all the more that I could play that game, the one depicted in the cinema.

[RuninRuder]

Ugh, I'm always up for first-person dungeon crawling, but Dungeon Master sounds horrible.  I guess I'll still have to buy it relatively soon though, lest TZD run out and eBay prices for it suddenly soar.

[CrackTiger]

Ugh, I'm always up for first-person dungeon crawling, but Dungeon Master sounds horrible.  I guess I'll still have to buy it relatively soon though, lest TZD run out and eBay prices for it suddenly soar. 

If the PC Engine version is cheap you could always get that. I don't remember there being any reading whatsoever in the game. 

[GUTS]

I'm pretty sure there are some puzzles you have to read clues to solve, but it's probably nothing you couldn't figure out on your own, especially runin who solved the mighty Xanadu end dungeon.  I never beat it though, I gave up on the 3rd or 4th dungeon out of boredom, it just wasn't any fun.

[RuninRuder]

If the PC Engine version is cheap you could always get that. I don't remember there being any reading whatsoever in the game. 

I might do that if it's like five bucks or something.  Hopefully it won't be any tougher than the Dragon Knights or Madou Monogatari, since I was able to clear those.  GUTS' mini-review was so DAMNING that I kind of don't even want it now, and will only buy it out of compulsion, haha.

[GUTS]

The Atlas- No idea what this game is like because it apparently won't play without that 128 thingy it shows on the cover.  Fucking retarded.  It's obviously some sort of Uncharted Waters type game, only it's made by ArtDink (hands down the worst developer to ever stay in business), so it's most likely going to be either extremely complicated or extremely simple, and absolutely no fun whatsoever (like all their games).  Also its all in brown and off-white, no color whatsoever except during the intro on the ArtDink logo.  I know they were going for some shitty and unique (for a reason) art style, but taking all the color out of everything isn't interesting, it's just lazy. 

If someone can find a worse developer than ArtDink (the criteria is that they made a bunch of objectively horrible games and stayed in business for at least a decade), I'd love to hear it.

[_Paul]

If someone can find a worse developer than ArtDink (the criteria is that they made a bunch of objectively horrible games and stayed in business for at least a decade), I'd love to hear it.

Pack-in-Video?

[nat]

Pack-In-Video had some good games.

[_Paul]

Pack-In-Video had some good games.

I demand proof!

[ccovell]

Thing is, Pack-in Video was also (mostly?) a publisher.  They published some games by Arc (like Road Spirits & Chris' Adventure) that are at least semi-decent.  Plus they published Zipang (really Solomon's Key) and Jigoku Gokuraku Maru (Kabuki: Quantum Fighter) on the Famicom, both of which are really good games.


I would add that if there's anyone who's consistently delivered shit, it's been RENO, one of the developers under the Telenet label.  They were responsible for the abominations Legion and Golden Axe.

[Turbo D]

zipang has a nice intro, but don't let it fool you. The game is totally different looking, haha.

[_Paul]

Yeah, Zipang was good. Reno were responsible for some awful tripe, although I do like Legend of Dekoboko.

[Keranu]

I would add that if there's anyone who's consistently delivered shit, it's been RENO, one of the developers under the Telenet label.  They were responsible for the abominations Legion and Golden Axe.

I disagree. Reno was responsible for Future Boy Conan, which wasn't great but wasn't shit either. I also think Reno's name appears on Final Zone II, which falls in the same category as Conan. Did they make Riot Zone also? I can't remember.

[ccovell]

Okay, so Conan is passable.  Sorry, but Final Zone II is shit, and perish the thought that Reno would have a part in Riot Zone!  That was a Hudson conversion of the Westone original.  Their once great names are now sullied by having been mentioned in the same post as Reno. 

[Keranu]

Keep in mind that I have a notorius view on what makes a game shit . In my opinion, true shit games are ones that aren't even playble or have very minimal playable like Jack Nicklaus  . Final Zone II is certainly playble and even a little enjoyable to me.

[esteban]

Okay, so Conan is passable.  Sorry, but Final Zone II is shit, and perish the thought that Reno would have a part in Riot Zone!  That was a Hudson conversion of the Westone original.  Their once great names are now sullied by having been mentioned in the same post as Reno. 

Agreed 100%. Final Zone II is total crap. I actually play the game every few years, and I am fond of it, but it is a piece of crap. The music and misogynistic face-slapping are the highlights for me. I also think some of the scenes are kool (e.g., the ones with Numan at the end of the game).

But nothing can make up for the horrible gameplay and totally uninspired... well, everything.

[ParanoiaDragon]

I think Final Zone 2 is decent, maybe better then the first.  And, is Reno the same as Renovation?  That was always my assumption, but now I'm wondering.

[CrackTiger]

Keep in mind that I have a notorius view on what makes a game shit . In my opinion, true shit games are ones that aren't even playble or have very minimal playable like Jack Nicklaus  . Final Zone II is certainly playble and even a little enjoyable to me.

Both Legion and Golden Axe are very playable.

[GUTS]

They have nothing on ArtDink, you guys should try some Carnage Heart, Tale of the Sun, or Aquanaut's Holiday if you want to see true taint.

[GUTS]

Youkai Douchuuki- An odd little platformer that is interesting mainly because half the fucking screen is taken up by your status bar.  Literally half.  It shows a little map that sort of gives you an idea of where you are in the level, but basically only by telling you how far you are away from the end since its just a crude drawing of the level.  The control is decent, and it does everything ok in a 1988 sort of way, but the game as a whole is just archaic and not any fun.  First of all you only get one fucking life, and that's IT, no continues or anything (at least not that I could find).  You can buy stuff from an old lady in a store, but only health power ups and some status enhancers like new shoes that make you jump *slightly* higher, and other things nearly as worthless.  Plus the collision detection is a little odd, it's one of those games where the edge of platforms and enemies isn't precisely defined (like donkey kong country compared to mario bros), so it can be ultimate frustrating.  The boss fights are kind of cool though, your character prays at a shrine and his spirit comes out and you get to control it as it flies around and fires projectiles off, all the while your little guy is praying super hard.

Overall the game isn't exactly horrible, but I wouldn't recommend paying more than a few bucks for it at the most.  The few frustrations like when you half to stop at a shop (they aren't optional) and the screen takes 10 seconds to change, one life and no continues, and the various extremely cheap parts definitely over ride any fun I had with it.  I will say its leagues better than fucking JJ and Jeff or Impossamole though.

[esteban]

Youkai Douchuuki- An odd little platformer that is interesting mainly because half the fucking screen is taken up by your status bar.  Literally half.  It shows a little map that sort of gives you an idea of where you are in the level, but basically only by telling you how far you are away from the end since its just a crude drawing of the level.  The control is decent, and it does everything ok in a 1988 sort of way, but the game as a whole is just archaic and not any fun.  First of all you only get one fucking life, and that's IT, no continues or anything (at least not that I could find).  You can buy stuff from an old lady in a store, but only health power ups and some status enhancers like new shoes that make you jump *slightly* higher, and other things nearly as worthless.  Plus the collision detection is a little odd, it's one of those games where the edge of platforms and enemies isn't precisely defined (like donkey kong country compared to mario bros), so it can be ultimate frustrating.  The boss fights are kind of cool though, your character prays at a shrine and his spirit comes out and you get to control it as it flies around and fires projectiles off, all the while your little guy is praying super hard.

Overall the game isn't exactly horrible, but I wouldn't recommend paying more than a few bucks for it at the most.  The few frustrations like when you half to stop at a shop (they aren't optional) and the screen takes 10 seconds to change, one life and no continues, and the various extremely cheap parts definitely over ride any fun I had with it.  I will say its leagues better than fucking JJ and Jeff or Impossamole though.

Impossamole sucks, JJ & Jeff doesn't!

I haven't played Youkai enough to judge it yet. Maybe next weekend!