September 1991 - Developers' opinions of Super CD format

[SamIAm]

Translation, from the top left:

There are presently 45 developers in total who make games for the PC Engine. We conducted a survey among all of them, asking how they feel about the Super CD-ROM format. NEC Consumer Electronics (who makes the hardware) and Sario declined to comment. We put the results of the remaining 43 developers into the graphs below.

----

Q1. Do you plan on developing Super CD-ROM games?
PINK: We are already. (25)
GREEN: We're thinking about it. (7)
YELLOW: No plans. (8 )
ORANGE: Yes, but we haven't started. (2)
LIGHT BLUE: Other (1)

27 developers, a majority, are either developing Super CD games or have committed to it. Most devs who have made a PCE CD game in the past are now making Super CD games. One newcomer also plans on making Super CD games.

----

Q2. To which do you give the most weight/resources: Super CD games, normal CD games, bi-compatible games, or Hucards?
PINK: Super CD (17)
ORANGE: Normal CD (1)
YELLOW: Bi-compatible (7)
GREEN: Hucard (3)
LIGHT BLUE: Can't say (14)
DARK BLUE: Other (2)

As we expected, the PCE world is centering more and more on the CD-ROM system, and the Super CD format is the main one. There is only one developer making software for the 2.0 system. For Hucards, it's only three. We expect to see fewer and fewer Hucard games from now on.

----

Q3. Do you think the Super System Card 3.0 is expensive?

PINK: Very expensive (8 )
ORANGE: A little expensive (24)
YELLOW: Just right (5)
GREEN: A bit cheap (1)
LIGHT BLUE: A great deal (1)
BLUE/PURPLE: Other/no comment (4)

For CD-ROM system owners, the Super System Card is a savior. For many developers, it seems expensive. Many fear that the price will inhibit the spread of the format. Some even feel you should be able to trade in your other card for one.

----

Q4. The Super CD is at a disadvantage against the Mega CD in terms of specs. Do you think it can compete?
PINK: It can compete (15)
ORANGE: It can't compete (2)
YELLOW: Can't say (23)
GREEN/LIGHT BLUE: Other/No comment (3)

How do they see the Mega CD, the rival everyone is worried about? Mostly, they think that the know-how they've cultivated and the success they've had in the marketplace so far will allow them to compete with it. Also, they said that game [systems] are made and broken not by hardware specs, but by software. Will everything depend on the coming lineup, we wonder?

----

Q5. Be honest: do you expect the Super CD system to spread in the market?
PINK: Absolutely (4)
ORANGE: To a degree (27)
YELLOW: No (1)
GREEN: I don't know (9)
LIGHT BLUE: No comment (2)

Of course, it all depends on the users, but most developers expect the new system to spread. There are, however, some who are worried about the price of the new system card and the confusion caused by all of the different hardware. At any rate, with the advent of the Super CD system, the PCE is at a turning point.

----

[Lower box]

Mr. Tabeda of NEC Avenue (pro-PCE) vs. Mr. Miyaji of Game Arts (pro-Mega CD)

Editor: The Mega Drive's CD system is on the horizon. Which do you think is going to be more successful, that or the PCE CD-ROM?

Miyaji: When it comes to CD-ROM units, the Mega CD is at an advantage. It's got faster seeking, six megabits of work RAM just like a computer, and another CPU.

Tabeda: In terms of specs, yes, it's true. The PCE CD-ROM's new version does strike me as something of a half-measure. If they're going to bother, I'd rather see a bigger change.

Miyaji: The Mega CD has scaling and rotation hardware, as well.

Tabeda: I think that the PCE can cover that difference. The Mega Drive can display only 64 colors simultaneously, while the PCE can do 512. No matter how much more memory either gets, the PCE is absolutely going to have superior display abilities. Everything around the PCE's CPU is very fast as well, and it's easy to make software for it. I think it can fight using these innate characteristics.

Miyaji: We haven't seen a change in market shares yet. The PCE's achievements are great, including that it brought CD-ROMs into people's homes. I think that from here on, we're going to shift into to a period when people scrutinize the software's quality itself.

Mr. Tabeda produced Super Darius, and has been involved in PCE software since the beginning. Mr Miyaji created Silpheed on PC and is eager to work on the Mega CD, along with the rest of his company.

----------------------

I recently picked up a few PCE magazines from 1990 and 1991. Those years, to me, are in many ways the most interesting period for the hardware itself, and for Hudson/NEC. The Super Famicom's release in Japan caused a drop in Hucard development and software/hardware sales, and the rise of the Genesis in North America made it hard to hope for growth in that market. Getting behind the new 3.0 system so strongly was a risky move, but it worked, and it gave us another few years of good CD games.

I'll try to see what else I can find that paints of picture of what it was like at this juncture in the PCE's history in Japan.

[NecroPhile]

Thanks for translating and sharing another good read.  Not many surprises, really.

[SamIAm]

Indeed, there's nothing earth-shattering here.

The things that I find interesting are:
- The huge number of devs working on Super CD games before the 3.0 card was even released.
- That the above was the case despite some ambivalent feelings about the Super CD system's potential.
- The fact that bi-compatible games seemed like they might really be a thing at one point.

Also, I've always thought that Game Arts would have been the perfect dev for Hudson to have in their corner. It's too bad, in a way, that they were so drawn to the Mega CD hardware.

[geise]

At least Game Arts gave the Mega-CD the Lunar series and a PC-88 port of Silpheed.  Essentially few of the games I would even want to play on the system.  I do wonder what they would've done if they went with the Super CDRom route.

[Mathius]

Thanks for translating!

I never really understood the logic behind bi-compatible games like Macross for example. I've not noticed any performance improvements in the ones I've played over the years.

[SuperPlay]

Interesting read :-) Thank you for the translation

[esteban]

Awesome, thank you.



Besides Game Arts, what other developers favored Mega CD over the PCE?

[Mathius]

Awesome, thank you.



Besides Game Arts, what other developers favored Mega CD over the PCE?

Wolf Team comes to mind arguably. Translated interviews have suggested that Wolf Team preferred programming in 68000 if I am remembering correctly.

[seieienbu]

These interviews are always interesting to read.  I find Tabeda and Miyaji's discussion of technical specs at the bottom the most interesting. 

I'll look forward to reading more of these when you have the time; thanks for the translation SamIAm.

[exodus]

great stuff, once again!

[SignOfZeta]

Thanks for translating!

I never really understood the logic behind bi-compatible games like Macross for example. I've not noticed any performance improvements in the ones I've played over the years.

The point is to cater to people who only have the CD systems but not to brand your game as old crap that 3.0 buyers might be hesitant to buy. Once the SuperCDROM2 logos started showing up on games the old CDROM2 stuff would seem old. After you paid over half as much as a SFC cost for a boring card you'll want to see it used as often as possible.

It's kind of a ruse, honestly.

[CrackTiger]

Anyone who had to buy a System 3.0 card would already have a CD-ROM2 and be used to saving money when buying CD games instead of cart games.

The difference in price between a PCE CD RPG and a SFC RPG is alone half the price of the system card. That's not even taking into account the value of the CD soundtrack, in a country where game soundtrack CDs sold well.

[esteban]

Thanks for translating!

I never really understood the logic behind bi-compatible games like Macross for example. I've not noticed any performance improvements in the ones I've played over the years.

The point is to cater to people who only have the CD systems but not to brand your game as old crap that 3.0 buyers might be hesitant to buy. Once the SuperCDROM2 logos started showing up on games the old CDROM2 stuff would seem old. After you paid over half as much as a SFC cost for a boring card you'll want to see it used as often as possible.

It's kind of a ruse, honestly.

Well, as a publisher, you want to sell the game to everyone.

A splintered user-base is problematic.

So, it's not that I disagree, but until the SCD install base was "significant", it really was important appeal to both groups.

Is it fair to say that the SCD format was, perhaps, more successful than its predecessor?

What is the CD vs SCD catalog in raw number of releases? (we can figure this out).  In total sales? (we don't have this info, sadly)

Of course, it would be so nice to chart CD vs SCD releases by date of release (to see when support for CD was dropped).

[Mathius]

Thanks for translating!

I never really understood the logic behind bi-compatible games like Macross for example. I've not noticed any performance improvements in the ones I've played over the years.

The point is to cater to people who only have the CD systems but not to brand your game as old crap that 3.0 buyers might be hesitant to buy. Once the SuperCDROM2 logos started showing up on games the old CDROM2 stuff would seem old. After you paid over half as much as a SFC cost for a boring card you'll want to see it used as often as possible.

It's kind of a ruse, honestly.

Well, as a publisher, you want to sell the game to everyone.

A splintered user-base is problematic.

So, it's not that I disagree, but until the SCD install base was "significant", it really was important appeal to both groups.

Is it fair to say that the SCD format was, perhaps, more successful than its predecessor?

What is the CD vs SCD catalog in raw number of releases? (we can figure this out).  In total sales? (we don't have this info, sadly)

Of course, it would be so nice to chart CD vs SCD releases by date of release (to see when support for CD was dropped).

This would be interesting. I'm sure SCD would win out over CD by number of releases alone. Just in my library of games SCD wins out with 47 games vs 25 CD-ROM2.

[deubeul]

According to pcedaisakusen, japanese retail titles:

CD: 121
SCD: 282

[esteban]

According to pcedaisakusen, japanese retail titles:

CD: 121
SCD: 282

Yes, but things get more interesting when we chart those 121 CD (and, if possible, the SCD) releases by MONTH and see how the transition from CD ----> SCD unfolded.

Also, just for my own curiosity, it would be interesting to have a breakdown by publisher...to see how different companies handled it.

Needless to say, the date(s) that this entire discussion revolves around is the official releases of (a) SCD SystemCard and (b) SCD and (c) DUO hardware.

[ccovell]

According to pcedaisakusen, japanese retail titles:

CD: 121
SCD: 282

Yes, but things get more interesting when we chart those 121 CD (and, if possible, the SCD) releases by MONTH and see how the transition from CD ----> SCD unfolded.

Also, just for my own curiosity, it would be interesting to have a breakdown by publisher...to see how different companies handled it.

You know, you can do this sort of filtering in the PC-Engine Hyper Catalogue CDs.

(I don't know of any automated way to do it on computer, though.)

[esteban]

According to pcedaisakusen, japanese retail titles:

CD: 121
SCD: 282

Yes, but things get more interesting when we chart those 121 CD (and, if possible, the SCD) releases by MONTH and see how the transition from CD ----> SCD unfolded.

Also, just for my own curiosity, it would be interesting to have a breakdown by publisher...to see how different companies handled it.

You know, you can do this sort of filtering in the PC-Engine Hyper Catalogue CDs.

(I don't know of any automated way to do it on computer, though.)

Ha!

I have some Hyper Catalog discs, too, but...I wish I could get the raw data.

I think pcecp.com was built by dumping the data from the "final" (theoretically most up-to-date) Hyper Catalog disc...

I wonder...if I sort by format (CD, SCD, etc) at pcedaikusen, I could get 2-4 independent timelines, then overlap them.

CD--> filter by year
SCD--> filter by year
Etc.

If I wasn't on my phone, I'd like to try this out.

[Artabasdos]

At least Game Arts gave the Mega-CD the Lunar series and a PC-88 port of Silpheed.  Essentially few of the games I would even want to play on the system.  I do wonder what they would've done if they went with the Super CDRom route.

The MegaCD has quite a lot of good games.

[ccovell]

I have some Hyper Catalog discs, too, but...I wish I could get the raw data.

I think pcecp.com was built by dumping the data from the "final" (theoretically most up-to-date) Hyper Catalog disc...

That just reminded me, I had extracted the data from the latest Hyper Catalog CD that I had & converted it into an OpenOffice spreadsheet and HTML file (back in 2011, apparently).  However, data such as release date/media format/company were in a different database, so I never merged the two.

Anyway, the games, review, cheats, etc. you can download in this giant file here: https://chrismcovell.com/data/PCE_Catalogue.zip

[esteban]

I have some Hyper Catalog discs, too, but...I wish I could get the raw data.

I think pcecp.com was built by dumping the data from the "final" (theoretically most up-to-date) Hyper Catalog disc...

That just reminded me, I had extracted the data from the latest Hyper Catalog CD that I had & converted it into an OpenOffice spreadsheet and HTML file (back in 2011, apparently).  However, data such as release date/media format/company were in a different database, so I never merged the two.

Anyway, the games, review, cheats, etc. you can download in this giant file here: https://chrismcovell.com/data/PCE_Catalogue.zip

This is neat, thanks for the link... I remember seeing this on your site before.

Q: How do you know you are old?
A: When you forget about stuff from only a few years ago

[ccovell]

Q: How do you know you are old?
A: When you forget about stuff from only a few years ago

EEEHH??  WHAT'S THAT???  (WHAT DID HE SAY????)

[Mathius]

Q: How do you know you are old?
A: When you forget about stuff from only a few years ago

EEEHH??  WHAT'S THAT???  (WHAT DID HE SAY????)

Why does it smell like a nursing home in here all of a sudden?

[SuperPlay]

This is neat, thanks for the link... I remember seeing this on your site before.

Q: How do you know you are old?
A: When you forget about stuff from only a few years ago

.. from only a few years ago.   

I cannot remember if I have washed my hair today or not ;-)

[Artabasdos]

Were there ever any SuperGrafx CD games?

[NecroPhile]

Were there ever any SuperGrafx CD games?

No.

[Artabasdos]

Were there ever any SuperGrafx CD games?

No.

Kinda weird considering the launch of the matching SuperCD2 unit.

[NecroPhile]

Kinda weird considering the launch of the matching SuperCD2 unit.

The SuperGrafx came out two years before the Super CD add-on, and they do not match each other.  The RAU-30 adapter (for connecting a SGX to an IFU) came out a few months after the SGX, and I guess it more or less matches; the half that plugs in to the SGX is the same color plastic anyway.

In any case, the SGX is a backwards compatible system.  Adding CD support was just important for non-SGX games, though I'm sure they would've made SGX CD games eventually had the system not been DOA.

[Artabasdos]

Kinda weird considering the launch of the matching SuperCD2 unit.

The SuperGrafx came out two years before the Super CD add-on, and they do not match each other.  The RAU-30 adapter (for connecting a SGX to an IFU) came out a few months after the SGX, and I guess it more or less matches; the half that plugs in to the SGX is the same color plastic anyway.

In any case, the SGX is a backwards compatible system.  Adding CD support was just important for non-SGX games, though I'm sure they would've made SGX CD games eventually had the system not been DOA.

Ah, ok. Was the SuperCD designed to match the CoreGrafx II colour-wise then?

Also, why didn't they put the SGX hardware into the Duos? Sure rly that would have helped?

[elmer]

Kinda weird considering the launch of the matching SuperCD2 unit.

You mean the SuperCD2 unit that launched 2 years after the SuperGrafx (which was already judged a failure), and which color-matched the CoreGrafx II, and was a cost-cutting replacement for the whole briefcase setup?

That SuperCD2?

The SuperGrafx could already run CD games soon after its launch with the release of the RAU-30 adapter for the briefcase.

<edit>

Beaten-to-the-post by Necromancer! 

[NecroPhile]

Ah, ok. Was the SuperCD designed to match the CoreGrafx II colour-wise then?

Yes.  They share a color scheme and were released just a few months apart.

Also, why didn't they put the SGX hardware into the Duos? Sure rly that would have helped?

Helped what?  The format was already dead, so it would've made the Duos even more expensive for something that neither consumers or developers were particularly interested.

[Artabasdos]

Ah, ok. Was the SuperCD designed to match the CoreGrafx II colour-wise then?

Yes.  They share a color scheme and were released just a few months apart.

Also, why didn't they put the SGX hardware into the Duos? Sure rly that would have helped?

Helped with it's technical edge against its competition. I doubt it would have cost that much more tbh.


Helped what?  The format was already dead, so it would've made the Duos even more expensive for something that neither consumers or developers were particularly interested.

[NecroPhile]

Helped with it's technical edge against its competition. I doubt it would have cost that much more tbh.

A technical superiority is meaningless if developers ignored it, and additional cost is a serious concern when the system is already considered expensive.  Also, had it been included and widely supported, they would've pissed off everyone with a briefcase.

They didn't include it because they didn't think they needed it to compete on a technical level.  They were right.

[Artabasdos]

Kinda weird considering the launch of the matching SuperCD2 unit.

You mean the SuperCD2 unit that launched 2 years after the SuperGrafx (which was already judged a failure), and which color-matched the CoreGrafx II, and was a cost-cutting replacement for the whole briefcase setup?

That SuperCD2?

The SuperGrafx could already run CD games soon after its launch with the release of the RAU-30 adapter for the briefcase.

<edit>

Beaten-to-the-post by Necromancer! 

Yes and no. I had a T shaped CD setup in my head. I was thinking of the TurboGrafx & TurboCD though without realising it. I confused the 2 as the SGX is effectively the head or a capital T. But yeah, mistaken identity!

[Artabasdos]

Helped with it's technical edge against its competition. I doubt it would have cost that much more tbh.

A technical superiority is meaningless if developers ignored it, and additional cost is a serious concern when the system is already considered expensive.  Also, had it been included and widely supported, they would've pissed off everyone with a briefcase.

They didn't include it because they didn't think they needed it to compete on a technical level.  They were right.

To a degree I guess. The MegaDrive & SNES still outlived it in the mainstream.

[CrackTiger]

Helped with it's technical edge against its competition. I doubt it would have cost that much more tbh.

A technical superiority is meaningless if developers ignored it, and additional cost is a serious concern when the system is already considered expensive.  Also, had it been included and widely supported, they would've pissed off everyone with a briefcase.

They didn't include it because they didn't think they needed it to compete on a technical level.  They were right.

To a degree I guess. The MegaDrive & SNES still outlived it in the mainstream.

It's all relative. The PC Engine was catering to a different market, since Nintendo had a stranglehold on the mass  market that was independent of software or hardware. Yet it went strong for 8 years and amassed a library similar in size to the Sega Genesis.

The Super Famicom/SNES arrived midway through the generation and only went s long as it did because of Nintendo's refusal to remain current hardware-wise and the combo of questionable business practices and japanese publisher "honor" and install base loyalty. Yet its last game was released during its 8th year.

While the PC Engine still saw releases in its 9th and 10th years, even one in its 12th and the first in a steady stream of physically published hombrew releases only a few years after that. And that's with the PC-FX targeting the same publishers and consumers.

[Artabasdos]

Helped with it's technical edge against its competition. I doubt it would have cost that much more tbh.

A technical superiority is meaningless if developers ignored it, and additional cost is a serious concern when the system is already considered expensive.  Also, had it been included and widely supported, they would've pissed off everyone with a briefcase.

They didn't include it because they didn't think they needed it to compete on a technical level.  They were right.

To a degree I guess. The MegaDrive & SNES still outlived it in the mainstream.

It's all relative. The PC Engine was catering to a different market, since Nintendo had a stranglehold on the mass  market that was independent of software or hardware. Yet it went strong for 8 years and amassed a library similar in size to the Sega Genesis.

The Super Famicom/SNES arrived midway through the generation and only went s long as it did because of Nintendo's refusal to remain current hardware-wise and the combo of questionable business practices and japanese publisher "honor" and install base loyalty. Yet its last game was released during its 8th year.

While the PC Engine still saw releases in its 9th and 10th years, even one in its 12th and the first in a steady stream of physically published hombrew releases only a few years after that. And that's with the PC-FX targeting the same publishers and consumers.

No disrespect to homebrew releases, but I'm only including officially licensed software. By that logic the Genesis and SNES are still alive, as they get homebrew-esque stuff too.

I'm also not attacking the PCE or its achievements in anyway. It's an amazing little machine with some impressive punch. The fact it could output 482 onscreen colours at the same time when mainstream PC videocards of the time could only do 256, and cost a small fortune is pretty mind blowing.
I'm a HUGE Megadrive fan, but have to admit the graphics are sometimes lacking in terms of colour. Then again, not many devs took advantage of the MD's built-in 192 colour shadow & highlight feature. The highest recorded amount of colours of any game or beta from back in the day that I know of is 114, on a Sonic 2 beta. But yeah, I'm just rambling now.

[CrackTiger]

Commercial non-homebrew releases spanned 12 years.

Translucent overlays are not the same as legit shading/color/detail and S&H has limited use, but many games still did something with it.

The Genesis/Mega Drive had enough color flexibilty for most types of games, even though most devs were bad at making good use of it. Palette hacks are transforming exiating games. Unfortunately, it was the same generation that street fighting games took off, which are the hardest kind of game to do within the Genesis' color restrictions, particularly ports.

[NecroPhile]

To a degree I guess. The MegaDrive & SNES still outlived it in the mainstream.

The SNES/SF and Genesis both had more releases later in life, but the Mega Drive did not.  It died off in Japan much more quickly.

No disrespect to homebrew releases, but I'm only including officially licensed software.

So was Black Tiger.  The first official PCE game was released on 10/30/87 and the last was on 6/3/99.

[Artabasdos]

Commercial non-homebrew releases spanned 12 years.

Translucent overlays are not the same as legit shading/color/detail and S&H has limited use, but many games still did something with it.

The Genesis/Mega Drive had enough color flexibilty for most types of games, even though most devs were bad at making good use of it. Palette hacks are transforming exiating games. Unfortunately, it was the same generation that street fighting games took off, which are the hardest kind of game to do within the Genesis' color restrictions, particularly ports.

The MD's S&H differs from most by being a built-in feature, not pseudo hack. It's not HAM.

You're right. Some devs chose very, very poor colour choices for certain MD games. Those hacks look so much better it's ridiculous. There are even copies of SFII CE being sold that have had the sound and colour fixes applied, and it's so much better. Hell, even Final Fight CD got a colour hack. That's the only burnt game I own.

[CrackTiger]

Commercial non-homebrew releases spanned 12 years.

Translucent overlays are not the same as legit shading/color/detail and S&H has limited use, but many games still did something with it.

The Genesis/Mega Drive had enough color flexibilty for most types of games, even though most devs were bad at making good use of it. Palette hacks are transforming exiating games. Unfortunately, it was the same generation that street fighting games took off, which are the hardest kind of game to do within the Genesis' color restrictions, particularly ports.

The MD's S&H differs from most by being a built-in feature, not pseudo hack. It's not HAM.

You're right. Some devs chose very, very poor colour choices for certain MD games. Those hacks look so much better it's ridiculous. There are even copies of SFII CE being sold that have had the sound and colour fixes applied, and it's so much better. Hell, even Final Fight CD got a colour hack. That's the only burnt game I own.

S&H is so convoluted to make much use of, that in practical use, it's more of a software feature. Which is why it was mainly used for simple things.