Which is your favorite retro gaming era?

[Arkhan Asylum]

but dude

hell yeah.

[o.pwuaioc]

Wiki lists The Legend of Dragoon, Metal Gear Solid: VR Missions, Final Fantasy Tactics as being incompatible with the PS2.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Wiki lists The Legend of Dragoon, Metal Gear Solid: VR Missions, Final Fantasy Tactics as being incompatible with the PS2.

Uh.

No?

Do you mean the PS3?

[Michirin9801]

Wiki lists The Legend of Dragoon, Metal Gear Solid: VR Missions, Final Fantasy Tactics as being incompatible with the PS2.

Just these 3?
Not that big a loss... I could just emulate them if I ever want to play them...

but dude

hell yeah.

It's okay... >w>
But it's not this:

[Arkhan Asylum]

You're right.   Flashback is a playable game.  Turrican is just some shit people pretend they like.   lol.


PS2 can play all PS1 games.   I don't know what Broadway's smoking.   I can confirm FFT and LOD work on a PS2.

and VR Missions actually.

[Michirin9801]

You're right.   Flashback is a playable game.  Turrican is just some shit people pretend they like.   lol.

Nah, Turrican's bloody awesome! Particularly Super Turrican 2, that one blew my mind back when I was little, too bad the music isn't as awesome as Super Turrican 1...
Mega Turrican is pretty damn good too, but I prefer the SNES ones for the most part...

[Arkhan Asylum]

Super Turrican 2 is literally the only Turrican anyone should play.   The rest are all garbage lol.

I feel bad for everyone that was stuck with C64 Turricans because they didn't have an NES growing up.

You all got shafted once that sweet intro tune ended.

[Michirin9801]

Super Turrican 2 is literally the only Turrican anyone should play.   The rest are all garbage lol.

I feel bad for everyone that was stuck with C64 Turricans because they didn't have an NES growing up.

You all got shafted once that sweet intro tune ended.

Well, the only computer Turrican game I've played was the Speccy version of the first game, and that was out of curiosity, I haven't played the C64 or Amiga ones, only their console counterparts on the SNES, MD, TurboGrafx and NES, and yeah, the NES version of Super Turrican is kind of rubbish, and so is the TurboGrafx one, but Mega Turrican, SNES Super Turrican and Super Turrican 2 are all damn good! (But Super Turrican 2 is the best)

[Arkhan Asylum]

I had Turrican on C64 and Amiga bitd.    I thought they were shitheaps when they were basically current games, lol.

I was like "fuck this I am playing Contra"

and "Fuck this, playing Contra 3"

[Gypsy]

Yeah not sure what that PS1 games not playing on PS2 is about. Some have minor performance issues (notably Zanac x Zanac) but everything plays. I played some Legend of Dragoon this year on my PS2.

If I had $60 lying around I'd buy some more 3DS games that I'm still missing out on >w>
I sure want to get a Saturn someday, but I've only just started working (as an animator), and I'm only gonna be paid (pennies) by the end of July, I don't think I'm gonna be able to afford collecting anything this year, maybe a couple of years from now, when I'm done with college, but by then I believe the prices are gonna be even more astronomically high than they already are...

;_;

Just make sure to get a pseudo saturn when you do. It's definitely worth playing some of the higher value ($200+) games but not worth paying for imo.

Yeah, that's pretty much exactly why I want to play it! I've only barely touched the Saturn, but of what I did see on the system it already feels like it would be right up my alley! So many 2D games! So many Fighting games! So many shmups!

Sounds like you will love the Saturn. Maybe some day the emulation won't suck. That would be nice.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Anyone who doesn't like the saturn probably only played Bug and Virtua Cop

[Arkhan Asylum]

/x1jdrr.png

[Michirin9801]

Sounds like you will love the Saturn. Maybe some day the emulation won't suck. That would be nice.

I've seen videos of people running Saturn pretty damn well on Mednafen, but if only it was more user-friendly... I mean, dragging PCE roms into it is fine and dandy, but I still could never manage to get a CD game working on it! (Well, I did, but it was PC-FX, still didn't manage PC engine, Playstation or Saturn) I don't know what I'm doing wrong, or not doing, so the least they could do is make it obvious what is it that I'm doing wrong or not doing! I don't wanna read pages upon pages worth of forum threads in order to figure it out, I don't have any patience for that...

That's why I love emulating stuff on my Wii, it's far from the most powerful system, but since it's a console they have no other choice but make it more user-friendly, the Wii doesn't have a bloody keyboard and mouse in it, it's got a controller with a D-pad and 7 buttons, there's only so much you can do with it so you have to actually display the options you have on the screen, right there, easy for anyone to see, as for running the games, just put them on your HDD or SD card and you're good to go! Why can't stuff be as simple as that on the PC?
No reason, because it can! Just look at PPSSPP, that's like, one of the best emulators I've ever used, I just expect emulators to be about as user-friendly as Snes9x, or worst-case-scenario I have to load a bios or swap floppy images, which I'm perfectly fine with, but PPSSPP is as easy to use as just downloading it and whatever ISOs you need, you don't even need to mount the ISO image to Daemon tools or anything, it just works! And even DLC is easy to install, you just put it on the folder it tells you to put and voila! It's installed...
But not only is PPSSPP an easy to use and configure emulator that runs PSP games excellently even on lower-end computers, but it goes above and beyond into making your emulation experience as well-presented as possible! It's got a pretty good-looking UI, it's easy to locate your games, it gives you little thumbnails of the games you'll be playing, it has a list of recently played games front-and-centre, getting to whichever options you need and tweaking them is just a couple of clicks away, you don't have to read a manual to find out what keyboard combination you have to press to make it work, it's PERFECT!

[Gypsy]

Anyone who doesn't like the saturn probably only played Bug and Virtua Cop

What a sad Saturn experience to have.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Anyone who doesn't like the saturn probably only played Bug and Virtua Cop

What a sad Saturn experience to have.

Bug was kinda funny, but like holyshit if the usa library is all you had, you were fuckin screwed.

[Gypsy]

Yeah importing is a must. People that are like, the Saturn (or Turbo for that matter) sucks it doesn't have many good games, but also aren't willing to import confuse me. It's a Japanese console that flopped in America but was wildly successful in Japan, what do you expect?

[Dicer]

16-bit hands down. The best smattering of all around goodness.

The pong/8bit era can be a close second if sometimes primitive plenty of those games are easy to pick up and go.

The 32-bit era can be hard to go back to, some of the game just do NOT hold up well, even with upscaling/filtering they are still ugly janky foggy framey messes, but there is other stuff that holds the up to test of time.

Everything past that is just prettier/faster/sleeker versions of crap before it, not always for the better...

[o.pwuaioc]

The only US Saturn disc I own is Rayman, and only that because it was cheap. Every other game I own is the Japanese version. 1) Way fucking cheaper; 2) Way more space for more games; 3) Looks better than those monstrous-yet-fragile abortions of a case.

[sanjo]

I loved the Sega Saturn!
I began as a Nintendo fanboy. Atari and NES were my first systems but I was hardcore NES and SNES nerd as a kid.
at that time I did have a slight interest in the Turbografx because Sears always had it on display and I'd play it while my parents went shopping. But they refused to buy me another console.

Some time later, when 32 bit was about to arrive and things got cheaper, I finally I gave the Gen and Sega CD a chance (but what I really wanted was a Turbo, but they were now gone), but was let down by the sound in many of the games (lesser colors wasnt so bad). I purchased it solely for Phantasy Star series, Shining Force, Lunar, and Sonic 2. 

By the time the 32 bit era arrived.  I decided to break from tradition and went for the Saturn first, while most of my friends went for PS1. At first, I had some buyers remorse because 3-D Polygons were the big thing back then, and PS1 games used it better. I was like, why can't the saturn version of Toshinden look as good? I eventually ended up buying a PS1 as well.

However in the end I played my Saturn 2 or 3 times more. Later on the Saturn had some games that I felt had better polygonal graphics, like Virtua Fighter 2 and Sega Rally. I also had this dual  mod saturn (a store put in some additional circuitry or something where you switch it from US or JPN).. and this greatly expanded my library.

I stuck to games that didn't require much Japanese at first, mostly fighters and shooters, then started learning Japanese.

in the end the PS1 AND Saturn's polygonal games aged poorly but Saturn's 2D games were fantastic. Arcade ports were much much better and had less loading times. My favorite fighter was the Saturn exclusive, Groove on Fight.

RPG wise, I think I logged on far more hours on Dragon Force 1 and 2 than the FF series on PS1.
I also liked Iron Storm (Daisenryaku), a WW2 strategy game. Its what led me to translate daisenryaku for the PCE-CD 10 years ago.
 
On the regular tv, the Saturn looked a lot sharper, with better contrast and colors. the PS1 had this blurry look (like how the Sega Genesis was).

Best of all, the Saturn was far more reliable. Never had any hardware problems with it, Just had to replace the battery every now and then. I had to completely replace my PS1.

I know some people complain about dithering used on the Saturn, but back then, they looked transparent due to the technological limitations of the TV.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Saturn had Magic Knight Rayearth and that was the best. 

as was Dragon Force.

Both those games were fucking masterpieces.   

It's a shame saturn kinda blows in the RPG department by comparison really.    The games are all good, but it doesn't have as wide of a selection.

[SignOfZeta]

I picked the same as everyone else. I love this period because it was as advanced as games got before they kinda...left the garage and got big time. The gulf of technical resources between Sega and Technos was massive yet Kunio-kun is at least as fun and was at least as popular as Space Harrior. The JRPG matured, playable pseudo3D was possible on SFC and if was actually fun. STREET FUCKING FIGHTER TOOOOO and of course Neo Geo, Yoshi's Island, Y's IV, Tengai Makyoi, Sonic 2...shit, I just named more shit than I've enjoyed since since the Dreamcsst died.

16-bit forever.

Btw, hear hear to the "8-bit graphics" thing. It always bugs me when people say "8-bit" and there's like 24 colors per sprite and megapixel resolution. "8-bit" is usually like three colors plus transparent unless they stack sprites. It's usually kinda ugly, and that's why the 16-bit era is my favorite. I apreciate the spirit of the Famicom times a million but I just need *slightky* better shit, sorry.

[ClodBusted]

Michirin, I'd suggest a PS2 SCPH-9x (Superslim) equipped with a Modbo chip.

This revision isn't as fucked up as some of the SCPH-7x (Slim) revisions with the frail diode problem. The SCPH-9x also has better compatibility with the majority of PS1/PS2 games than the 7x.

This is what I use with my PAL SCPH-9x, and it plays pretty much everything fine that I throw at it (haven't tested MGS VR missions yet, though), which is mainly Japanese and some US PS1 and PS2 games. Will play CD-/DVD-Rs too, reserved for some otherwise prohibitively expensive games.

[Arkhan Asylum]

I laugh at people who need RGB nes.

It still looks bland half the time because the sprites lack any details.

[o.pwuaioc]

PS2 can play all PS1 games.   I don't know what Broadway's smoking.   I can confirm FFT and LOD work on a PS2. and VR Missions actually.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_PlayStation_games_incompatible_with_PlayStation_2

Which PS2 do you have? I have a chipped PS1 for imports, and neither console are stay hooked up, so it's not a big deal for me to get it out and play PS1 games on it. I never checked for myself what games work or don't work, since I never got rid of my PS1 to begin with.

Just these 3?
Not that big a loss... I could just emulate them if I ever want to play them...

Nah, a lot more, but those were the only three I cared about.

[Gypsy]

On the regular tv, the Saturn looked a lot sharper, with better contrast and colors. the PS1 had this blurry look (like how the Sega Genesis was).

Genesis composite is pretty bad on most models and PS1 composite is truly awful so that's probably why. It's been awhile since I've seen Saturn composite and I actually don't even have a Saturn composite cable anymore to check.

Saturn had Magic Knight Rayearth and that was the best. 

as was Dragon Force.

Both those games were fucking masterpieces.   

It's a shame saturn kinda blows in the RPG department by comparison really.    The games are all good, but it doesn't have as wide of a selection.

Definitely. I loved Dragon Force. I still need to play the 2nd one. I have the patch for that and Policenauts sitting here waiting for me to get done with my anime bender.

I picked the same as everyone else. I love this period because it was as advanced as games got before they kinda...left the garage and got big time. The gulf of technical resources between Sega and Technos was massive yet Kunio-kun is at least as fun and was at least as popular as Space Harrior. The JRPG matured, playable pseudo3D was possible on SFC and if was actually fun. STREET FUCKING FIGHTER TOOOOO and of course Neo Geo, Yoshi's Island, Ys IV, Tengai Makyoi, Sonic 2...shit, I just named more shit than I've enjoyed since since the Dreamcsst died.

16-bit forever.

Btw, hear hear to the "8-bit graphics" thing. It always bugs me when people say "8-bit" and there's like 24 colors per sprite and megapixel resolution. "8-bit" is usually like three colors plus transparent unless they stack sprites. It's usually kinda ugly, and that's why the 16-bit era is my favorite. I apreciate the spirit of the Famicom times a million but I just need *slightky* better shit, sorry.

So this post (mine) might not make much sense but here goes.

I have played pretty much everything you mentioned (not Tengai Makyo yet) and liked them all. I like plenty of new games too, despite how different they are from old games. That said there is a deluge of very shitty samey indie roguelikes and all the AAA shooter and sandbox clones that you have to look past and find the better games. And I mean, I enjoyed RDR but I don't understand people wanting  to wander around and plat all the sandbox games that come out. I just want to play through the game once w/o a guide. I cleared over 50 PS3 games (not supposed to be an impressive number) so I think there is definitely some fun to be had.

Agree about old games. For me games mostly didn't get fun until PCE. Now there are some playable NES games for me, mostly the ultra popular and well made shit like SMB3. Whereas PCE I can play and enjoy most of the library.

[Arkhan Asylum]

PS2 can play all PS1 games.   I don't know what Broadway's smoking.   I can confirm FFT and LOD work on a PS2. and VR Missions actually.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_PlayStation_games_incompatible_with_PlayStation_2

Which PS2 do you have? I have a chipped PS1 for imports, and neither console are stay hooked up, so it's not a big deal for me to get it out and play PS1 games on it. I never checked for myself what games work or don't work, since I never got rid of my PS1 to begin with.

Just these 3?
Not that big a loss... I could just emulate them if I ever want to play them...

Nah, a lot more, but those were the only three I cared about.

I can go check when I am home.  I have 2.  but, I use PS1 mostly for PS1.   I need to get some more PS1s.

sometimes they fuck out on me.

I was just playing JetMoto2  on a PS2 a few weeks ago.  lol  it seemed OK to me.

[Gredler]

NHL Rock the Rink - the middle man between Hit the Ice and Wayne Gretzky's 3D Hockey / NHL Hitz.

Great game, worth having a ps1 around to play it.

[coryoon]

Whilst I did some gaming in the 8-Bit era (had an Amstrad CPC), although I liked to play on it, I find it hard to go back to 8-Bit stuff.  The same can be said of the 8-Bit consoles (bar a few stand out games).

The 16-Bit era has the consoles that I like the most - PC Engine, Snes and Neo Geo.

With that said the 16-Bit era continued long after the Playstation era, as the Neo still had releases as did other arcade hardware that I suppose could be lumped in with this era?

-Was CPS2 16-Bit?
-The CAVE CV1000 pcbs were much more powerful than the 16 Bit PGM hardware that preceded it.

I never like to use the generational classifications that are used, save as to say that there was a jump from 8 to 16 bit graphics and then a gradual peaking of 16 bit (style) 2d graphics well into the 000's.

I dare say that I am into the era of 2D pixel games that started from the PC Engine and ended with the last official Neo release, so that gives me 1987 - 2003.

Certain exceptions are made on the handheld format as I love the GB and the GG - although they do fall into my 87-03 window.

[esteban]

FINAL CONCLUSIONS:

(1) The 8-bit era is, without a doubt, the best era.
(2) Pussyfooters say otherwise.
(3) FEKA agents hacked the poll to elevate "16-bit Era" into the lead. Therefore, the results displayed above are invalid. Ignore them.
(4) For three hours this afternoon, the poll was titled "Dendy4Ever" (Russian hackers). NecroPhile fixed this by hitting "refresh" in his mobile Opera browser.

[Michirin9801]

I think there are plenty of NES, GB and GBC and a few Master System games that have actually aged pretty damn well in my book and still look sound and play great now, granted they're never gonna compare to the likes of what you find on the PC engine, Mega Drive and Super Nintendo, but I still love games such as NES Batman, NES Batman Return of the Joker, Shatterhand, Ninja Gaiden 1, 2 and 3, Kirby's Adventure, Super Mario Bros. 1, 2 and 3, Contra, Super C, Castlevania 1 and 3, ZAS (GB), Crisis Force (FC), Crystalis, Adventure Island 2 and 3, Final Fantasy III (FC), Dragon Warrior IV, Super Mario Land 2, Gremlins 2, Journey to Silius, Bomberman II, Jackie Chan's Action Kung Fu (NES), Faxanadu, TMNT 3 The Manhattan Project, Wacky Races (GBC), Zelda Link's Awakening DX (GBC)...
The point is that there is no shortage of 8 bit games that are still pretty damn good, sure some of you might not agree with some of my choices, but there are plenty more that I haven't mentioned so my point stands...

I voted for the 16 bit generation for a good reason, that's when 2D graphics became truly amazing, 2D gameplay was pretty much perfected, and the sound that those systems produced has never been and will probably never be surpassed, but if you dismiss the 8 bits you're only doing yourself a disservice...

Yeah I know I was a little dismissive of the 5th generation earlier in the thread while saying I didn't have a ton of experience with it, but that wasn't exactly the most accurate way to word what I was trying to say, not only do I have experience with the 5th gen systems (minus the Saturn which I really want to play when I can) but I was open to suggestions! (In other words, I'm not being a hypocrite by defending the 3rd generation even though the 4th is my favourite by a long shot)

[o.pwuaioc]

I think some trends are in order. I'd say 8-bit platformers were represented the height of the genre, as they started to get too easy with 16-bit consoles. There are, of course, many exceptions.

The absolute pinnacle of shooters is either PC Engine greatness or Saturn greatness, late enough to be polished, early enough to avoid the terrible danmaku fetish.

RPGs were greatest in 16-bit generation, but racing games from the Saturn and PS1 on blow everything before that out of the water. Not even close.

On the other hand, 8/16-bit beatemups were way, way cooler than 3D platformers, which objectively suck. Final Fantasy went from dark knights to scrappy but effeminate boys.

Things were weirder in 8 and 32/64-bit eras than 16-bit, but that's mostly due to the sheer size of the shovelware (and thus unusual and unexpected slam dunks) from the NES and PS1 libraries.

Sports games get more boring the more realistic they make them. Ergo earlier is better. (Are there any phenomenal sports games after NHL 94? I'm thinking Virtua Tennis and Hot Shots Fore! or something.)

Hard to say which gen is best with all this, but I'd still lean 16-bit as a comfortable middle ground there.

[esteban]

Obviously, I love the 16-bit era. 

That said, there is an awful lot of pussyfooting in this thread!   8-bit4Evuh



Michirin9801, you have sound reasoning. I hear you. I think most folks would (do) agree with you.



MrBroadway: I think you identified something crucial to this discussion...trends and genres. A person's personal preference for certain genres will absolutely affect their vote in this poll.

Personally, the fact that I don't really care for:

* Vs. Fighting Games (a la Street Fighter)
* RPGs on consoles (I used to play RPGs on computers in 80's, then got sick of it)
* FPS/3D platformers

...really shapes my vote in a favorite "era"...

Plus, the incontrovertible fact that the 16-bit Era is, and always will be,  inferior to the 8-bit Era is integral to the analysis, too.

[sanjo]

Crystalis

It's a damn shame they never made a sequel. When SNK made it big with the Neo-Geo, I was really hoping for a 16-bit  sequel.

Best action rpg of the 8-bit era

[NE146]

I'm a child of the 70's.. had a Coleco Telstar console, and then was fully and absolutely immersed in the 2600/5200 era. I had also had a Famicom before the NES was all that huge in the states and totally loved that era. However my "favorite" has to be the 16 bit era..  that was truly a golden age imho.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Crystalis

It's a damn shame they never made a sequel. When SNK made it big with the Neo-Geo, I was really hoping for a 16-bit  sequel.

Best action rpg of the 8-bit era

There's a fanmade sequel.

https://rpgmaker.net/games/3175/

its kinda neato

[Michirin9801]

Crystalis

It's a damn shame they never made a sequel. When SNK made it big with the Neo-Geo, I was really hoping for a 16-bit  sequel.

Best action rpg of the 8-bit era

There's a fanmade sequel.

https://rpgmaker.net/games/3175/

its kinda neato

It looks alright, but the graphics/artwork look amateurish as f*** >~>';
Sorry #>w<#

[Arkhan Asylum]

that's because it's an RPG Maker fan made sequel made by probably a highschool kid in their spare time.

what'd you expect? lol

[Michirin9801]

that's because it's an RPG Maker fan made sequel made by probably a highschool kid in their spare time.

what'd you expect? lol

Been there, done that, so I get what you mean...
(But my teenage self's graphics were still better >w<'; )

[Arkhan Asylum]

Been there, done that, so I get what you mean...
(But my teenage self's graphics were still better >w<'; )

yea, but theirs are in a released Crystalis fansequel, so they kinda one upped you.

[Michirin9801]

yea, but theirs are in a released Crystalis fansequel, so they kinda one upped you.

Point taken, I never finished my old RPG maker projects...

[sanjo]

yea, but theirs are in a released Crystalis fansequel, so they kinda one upped you.

Point taken, I never finished my old RPG maker projects...

that's interesting. I thought RPG Maker only did rpgs, not action rpgs

[Michirin9801]

yea, but theirs are in a released Crystalis fansequel, so they kinda one upped you.

Point taken, I never finished my old RPG maker projects...

that's interesting. I thought RPG Maker only did rpgs, not action rpgs

You kinda have to go out of your way with events and scripts in order to be able to make anything that isn't an RPG... It's possible, but if you're gonna put in the effort you might as well use some other software like Game Maker Studio...
It's gonna be harder considering that you'll be making the game pretty much from the ground up, but the results will be a heck of a lot better!

[Arkhan Asylum]

"The results will be a heck of a lot better"

How?  Why?  This is just some made up nonsense statistic with no real evidence, lol.

It's up to the graphics/programmer to make the results.   The fact you're doing it "from the ground up" doesn't automagically result in "a heck of a lot better".     In some cases, it results in "worse and doesn't get finished ever".

I wouldn't be surprised if the below results couldn't be achieved by the same team using GameMaker, or some other "DIY" setup, because it's harder.

[Michirin9801]

Look mate, there's only so much you can do in RPG maker before it becomes even harder to make there than it would in another software, and depending on what you're making it can be limiting in all of the wrong ways...
I've never said that good games can't be made in RPG maker, they definitely can, I sure have seen some and even played a couple, but when you go out of your way to make something that isn't an RPG, you're more often than not doing yourself and your game a disservice by making it in RPG maker...
(Note: "More often than not" doesn't mean "always")

[Arkhan Asylum]

OK, given the copious amounts of discussion/scripts/tutorials/youtubes/examples, I am saying what you're saying is a bit nonsensical. 

What experience do you have that qualifies what you are saying, anyways?  You said you never finished anything from RPG Maker.   How many other things have you had any experience and/or success with when trying to make an RPG?

How much of what you tried was action?  When did you even try it?  RPG Maker has evolved a bit over the years.

RPG Maker gives you a lot of powerful features/things that you no longer have to DIY.    Forsaking those to do it all from scratch in Game Maker or some shit, especially if you aren't exactly a fantastic programmer or experienced game maker seems fairly strange.

You keep saying these "more often than not" and "heck of a lot better" statements that sound more opinion than fact, and don't have any real backing to them.   Yes, it doesn't mean "always", but what you're saying is sort of exaggerated.

How are you doing your game a disservice using RPG Maker?  Can you explain this? 

As I said, if you can't get it to work in RPGMaker, I don't think you'd manage to implement anything more competent in an engine that basically does nothing for you, so I don't see how you'd be doing a disservice.

We were doing action RPG stuff in RPG Maker over a decade ago, when it was actually hard.   Not like it is now.


http://rpgmaker.net/games/1722/

Not seeing how this sort of thing is a disservice because it is an RPG Maker game, and also not seeing how you could do "heck of a lot better" in Game Maker.   


There's a bunch of other games that aren't turn based in RPGMaker.


I would take RPG Maker to do an action RPG over something like Game Maker, or Allegro/Verge.   It abstracts away a lot for you.

[Michirin9801]

I've used RPG maker 2000, 2003 and VX ace from 2009 through about 2013, but I mostly used 2003 due to being a pretty good improvement in usability over 2000 while still being in 240p, and from my experience RPG Maker is an excellent tool for beginner game designers who are more experienced in making graphics than anything (my case exactly) and you could do almost anything you wanted using the game's event system, even some really impressive stuff as seen in this video:

(Unfortunately I've never managed to find this game for download so I can't say how well it plays)

But RPG maker 2003 doesn't have scripts, so there's only so much you can do in it, you'll always be limited to tile-based movement in it, no 8 direction movement either, only 2 BG layers with no way to split them and move parts at different speeds, and you have very little control over the parallax (although if you're really creative you could fake extra layers by overlaying sprites and animations on top, but that only gives you foreground layers)

Here's the thing though, I'm not much of a writer, I have no interest in making an RPG, so I've always been trying to see how much I could push RPG maker 2003, what I could get out of it that wasn't an RPG, granted I've never managed to get anything even remotely close to what's shown in that video, but I could already see from afar that using RPG maker to make something like that would be a massive pain in the arse, and it would most likely not play well at all, so if I wanted to make anything that was good I'd either have to upgrade to newer versions which supported scripts (such as VX ace which I also tried to use), which would require me to either learn to code on my own or use other people's scripts, which might not exactly do what I wanted to do, or use some other program, either way, I'd have to learn to code, so if I were to learn to code, I might as well go all the way and use another program where I'd have full control over everything! The sizes and amount of frames of animation of all of my graphics, where to put them, how to refer to them, all of my variables, I can have as many background layers as I want and I can make them parallax at any speeds I want, I can have my movement work any way I want, with whatever controls I want, my title-screen can be much more interesting than a static image with a dialogue box with 3 options that say "New Game", "Continue" and "Exit" or any variation of these 3 functions, so on and so forth...
And making all of those things with the level of control that I wanted turned out to be MUCH easier in Game Maker Studio...
Granted there are some things about RPG maker that I still like better than GMS, like the tilemap editor, GMS's Tilemap editor is a flaming pile of rubbish that I hate almost as much as I hate Sonic (or maybe even more considering that I have to deal with it instead of ignoring it) and uhh... I suppose it's easier to actually finish a game in RPG maker if your game doesn't have robust physics?

While RPG maker is definitely usable to make games on a publishable level, I see it more as a learning tool that you move on from once you've acquired enough experience (unless all you ever want to make is RPGs and RPG maker fits what you want to make) but if you don't want to make RPGs (like me) nowadays there are a lot of programs more suited to what you might want to make, which would serve as far more useful learning tools!
The same creators of RPG maker have made their own 2D game engine for games other than RPGs, which is IG maker, it requires no scripting knowledge what-so-ever (read: "It doesn't support scripts" at least as far as I've used it back in 2014) you code with events, kinda like you did back in RPG maker 2003, but it has a lot more broad events meant for things other than RPGs, so if you're not much of a coder and you want to make a shmup, a top-down action game, a puzzle game or a platformer (maybe even a fighting game?) you know, games that have more robust physics and aren't necessarily top-down, you can make them MUCH more easily in that than you ever could in RPG maker, THAT's when you'd be doing yourself and your game a disservice by making it in RPG maker, because that way you're only over-complicating something that could be done easier in other software...

And that's because IG maker isn't even the best one out there, Construct 2 has come to my attention in recent months and it's not only easier to use than IG maker, but it's also more flexible than it! It also uses a "coding through events" system, but that system is even more robust and somehow even easier to use than IG maker's, and it has "Behaviours" which you can use to make some of the game's objects pretty much code themselves, all you have to do is adjust some parameters, but personally, I don't like behaviours at all, from my experience they mostly work like s***, you're better off coding everything on your own with events, the only one that I found to be useful was "Sine" which makes an object move in a sine wave, it's alright...

Personally I'd say Construct 2 is a FAR more useful learning tool for non-coders who want to make games that aren't RPGs, even an action RPG would be better off made in it than it would in RPG maker I'd say because you're able to use as many sprites as you want and make them as big and animated with as many frames as you want, with full and easy control of the collision boxes, without requiring ANY scripting what-so-ever! (The program doesn't supports scripts either, but you can code fine just using its event system)
In this program you're not adjusting a pre-existing engine to suit your needs, you're making your own game engine in the easiest way that I personally know, which gives you MUCH more creative freedom and that's good!
That said though, RPG maker (and IG maker) still have a better tilemap editor... Yeah they just don't get any better than that... Although Construct 2 still has a better one than GMS, but GMS2 has just come out and it's a MASSIVE improvement in the tilemap editor! I haven't tried it yet (no moniez) but you can make animated tiles in it which you couldn't in GMS1 and you had to use a custom shader that replaces tiles with sprites if you wanted to do that, not to mention there's an auto-tiling feature too (like there also is in RPG maker) so that makes my job a heck of a lot easier... Oh and the Drag 'n Drop coding has also gotten better, I've heard that anything you can do with GMS Scripts you can now do in the Drag 'n Drop code, which wasn't the case before, so that makes the code much less of a pain to deal with in my book, not that I have to deal with that, I've got help, so all I have to do is make graphics, music, level design, character and monster design, sound effects and so on... I really need to upgrade to GMS2...

The point is that RPG maker is perfectly fine to make RPGs, but if you want to do anything else there are better tools out there which will make it much easier, at least from my experience, but hey, if you say that it's gotten easier to make action RPGs in RPG maker lately I'll just take your word for it, but from my experience, if it requires scripts at all, I'm always going to recommend other programs to use instead, not only for the added freedom, but also because the results will be better...

[Arkhan Asylum]

Tldr,  youre speaking with noncoder opinion as fact.   Theres nothing wrong with scripting engines.   unity even uses them.   Lots of commercial games do too.   Sometimes its preferable to event driven.


We were talking about action rpgs anyways.   No kidding you could make other genres better in another engine.   

That was never really up for debate lol.

The latest rpg maker is a better tool for arpgs than construct.

Construct is kind of shit.    It works but isnt ideal.

Insanity blade was made with it, and the author talked about his ughs

[Michirin9801]

Tldr,  youre speaking with noncoder opinion as fact.   Theres nothing wrong with scripting engines.   unity even uses them.   Lots of commercial games do too.   Sometimes its preferable to event driven.


We were talking about action rpgs anyways.   No kidding you could make other genres better in another engine.   

That was never really up for debate lol.

The latest rpg maker is a better tool for arpgs than construct.

Construct is kind of shit.    It works but isnt ideal.

Insanity blade was made with it, and the author talked about his ughs

Indeed, there's nothing wrong with scripting engines, but my point is that if you're gonna learn to code in order to use scripts in your RPG maker game you might as well go the extra mile and use another tool which will give you more creative freedom...

I was never talking specifically about just action RPGs, I was talking about any game that wasn't a traditional RPG, granted if you're gonna make something in RPG maker that isn't a traditional RPG you'll have the best results with Action RPGs because many of the traditional RPG elements carry over, but there's no shortage of games that aren't RPGs OR Action RPGs made in RPG maker which could end up being better if they were made using other programs...

That said though, I've seen adventure games made in RPG maker which I found to have been massively improved by being made in RPG maker if only due to the fact that controlling characters with the arrow keys and 2 buttons is WAY better than pointing and clicking, and inventory puzzles are much more manageable when everything is laid out on a tilemap rather than clicking on semi-conspicuous places on a bitmap background, so yeah, exceptions exist...

Also, yes, Construct really isn't ideal, but I find it to be a better learning tool than RPG maker for games that aren't RPGs, it's an okay program for non-coders to put a prototype together, but commercial games should probably be made elsewhere... Same goes for IG Maker...

[Arkhan Asylum]

The topic was action rpgs, and you went off on some tangential deepend fueled by your incomplete experiences.

The engine is only half the battle.   Stop saying one thing will instantly produce a better thing.

Ive played seuck and qb games that take hot dumps on unity games faces

[Michirin9801]

The engine is only half the battle.   Stop saying one thing will instantly produce a better thing.

Ive played seuck and qb games that take hot dumps on unity games faces

Amateur 3D games generally suck a big one anyway...

And please don't twist my points, I've never said the engine will instantly make a better result, I said "If you're going to learn to code to use scripts, you might as well go the extra mile" which I'd imagine implies that it's up for the designer to make a better game by putting in the effort to make their games better! And if they're willing to put in that effort using an engine that gives them more creative freedom will ultimately allow them to make a better non-RPG game than they'd otherwise be able to make in RPG maker, be it an Action RPG or otherwise...