Top ten PCE/Turbo RPG's (CD or HU)...

[CrackTiger]

A lot of RPGs have MUTE characters.  Ys, for instance.  Lunar 1's Alex is almost mute, but he has 1 vocal line in the game I think. 

What if there was a game that had all of the mechanics of an RPG.  Let's say it was exactly like Phantasy Star 1.  But there was no real story.  The dialog just consisted of "There are more monsters here" or "There is a boss monster at the end of this dungeon".  The only thing changed is what the text says.  Is it still and RPG?

To me, games like Exile are most certainly NOT RPGs.  Exile 1 can be beaten in less than 2 hours and features extremely weak character development.

Phantasy Star 1 basically was only "There are more monsters here" or "There is a boss monster at the end of this dungeon". But it still feels more epic and like a complete story than the sequel which added a ton more story driving dialogue.

[Keranu]

Actually I just played through Lunar Sega CD and I think Alex had a whopping TWO lines, both vocal! There was one where Galeon killed the white dragon where he screamed something and then there was another one at the end about Luna.

[Nazi NecroPhile]

I don't get how anyone who plays video games can NOT be clear on what a console RPG is, it's pretty obvious that there are straight console RPGs (like Cosmic Fantasy, Dragon Slayer, etc), action-RPGs (Ys, Neutopia II, Blood Gear, Exile), and action games with some light rpg elements (like Cadash).

Word up.  Even this ijit has a pretty good handle on how to categorize games, though there's always a few titles that straddle the line between genres.

A lot of RPGs have MUTE characters.  Ys, for instance.

Adol has a line or two during the cinema between Book I and Book II.

[Keranu]

A lot of RPGs have MUTE characters.  Ys, for instance.

Adol has a line or two during the cinema between Book I and Book II.

I'm pretty sure he doesn't. The only line I can remember from Adol in Ys Book I & II was when he was disquised as a monster at Solomon's Shrine in Ys II and told the guard the secret passcode to get in. He was quite the chitter chatter (compared to other Ys games) in Ys III, but he got quiet again in Dawn of Ys (I think like two lines).

[Joe Redifer]

What if there was a game that had all of the mechanics of an RPG.  Let's say it was exactly like Phantasy Star 1.  But there was no real story.  The dialog just consisted of "There are more monsters here" or "There is a boss monster at the end of this dungeon".  The only thing changed is what the text says.  Is it still and RPG?

No. It loses its RPG title and is demoted to a simple adventure game or even a "mob game", which are certainly not RPGs in any sense of the word. The gameplay style doesn't make the game an RPG or not.

OK I realize we're really going off on an tangent with this one, but what about an RPG in Japanese played by an American such as myself?  I cannot read any text in the game, yet there is text there.  It doesn't matter if there is an epic storyline or if the characters are just saying "bathtub" over and over again, I would never know!  Is it still an RPG?  (This is one of those "tree falls in the woods" questions).

[TurboXray]

What if there was a game that had all of the mechanics of an RPG.  Let's say it was exactly like Phantasy Star 1.  But there was no real story.  The dialog just consisted of "There are more monsters here" or "There is a boss monster at the end of this dungeon".  The only thing changed is what the text says.  Is it still and RPG?

No. It loses its RPG title and is demoted to a simple adventure game or even a "mob game", which are certainly not RPGs in any sense of the word. The gameplay style doesn't make the game an RPG or not.

OK I realize we're really going off on an tangent with this one, but what about an RPG in Japanese played by an American such as myself?  I cannot read any text in the game, yet there is text there.  It doesn't matter if there is an epic storyline or if the characters are just saying "bathtub" over and over again, I would never know!  Is it still an RPG?  (This is one of those "tree falls in the woods" questions).

Your question can easily be solved with another question. Is a video game not a video game if one does not understand the mechanics of it?

 My opinion for what it's not worth and for the record, strategy RPGs are not RPGs. They can have all the character development/storyline/whatever, but they are not RPGs. Not in the sense of traditional J-RPGs which RPG was/is (and rightfully should still be) analogous to. Sure there are hybrids, but hybrids are usually more of one than both. Shining Force a good example.

 You've got (j) RPGs, (c) RPGs, action-RPGs, adventure(action-adventure for you EU twits ). Neutopia and Zelda falls into the action-adventure genre. Ys III falls into the action-RPG genre. Ys I & II and IV is hard to classify as a straight RPG because of it's action element, but god damn it sure feels more like an RPG than an action-RPG. Then you have strategy RPGs and their sub genre. Jesus Christ. Oh yeah, shooter-RPG (that one for GBA - I forget the name).

[Keranu]

Ok so I'm confused now by nod's definition of an RPG being based on it's story telling. What if a game with absolutely no RPG gameplay elements had a deep story like a normal RPG, like Super Mario Bros. or something, would it be considered an RPG?

[CrackTiger]

A lot of RPGs have MUTE characters.  Ys, for instance.

Adol has a line or two during the cinema between Book I and Book II.

I'm pretty sure he doesn't. The only line I can remember from Adol in Ys Book I & II was when he was disquised as a monster at Solomon's Shrine in Ys II and told the guard the secret passcode to get in. He was quite the chitter chatter (compared to other Ys games) in Ys III, but he got quiet again in Dawn of Ys (I think like two lines).

In Ys I & II, there is dialogue text for Adol in the scene where Lilia finds him at the beginning of Ys II. But I think that Adol's dialogue and the couple of lines from Alex in Lunar Sega-CD were added to the english versions.

[nectarsis]

What if there was a game that had all of the mechanics of an RPG.  Let's say it was exactly like Phantasy Star 1.  But there was no real story.  The dialog just consisted of "There are more monsters here" or "There is a boss monster at the end of this dungeon".  The only thing changed is what the text says.  Is it still and RPG?

No. It loses its RPG title and is demoted to a simple adventure game or even a "mob game", which are certainly not RPGs in any sense of the word. The gameplay style doesn't make the game an RPG or not.

OK I realize we're really going off on an tangent with this one, but what about an RPG in Japanese played by an American such as myself?  I cannot read any text in the game, yet there is text there.  It doesn't matter if there is an epic storyline or if the characters are just saying "bathtub" over and over again, I would never know!  Is it still an RPG?  (This is one of those "tree falls in the woods" questions).

Your question can easily be solved with another question. Is a video game not a video game if one does not understand the mechanics of it?

 My opinion for what it's not worth and for the record, strategy RPGs are not RPGs. They can have all the character development/storyline/whatever, but they are not RPGs. Not in the sense of traditional J-RPGs which RPG was/is (and rightfully should still be) analogous to. Sure there are hybrids, but hybrids are usually more of one than both. Shining Force a good example.

 You've got (j) RPGs, (c) RPGs, action-RPGs, adventure(action-adventure for you EU twits ). Neutopia and Zelda falls into the action-adventure genre. Ys III falls into the action-RPG genre. Ys I & II and IV is hard to classify as a straight RPG because of it's action element, but god damn it sure feels more like an RPG than an action-RPG. Then you have strategy RPGs and their sub genre. Jesus Christ. Oh yeah, shooter-RPG (that one for GBA - I forget the name).

(c) rpg...classic??

[Nazi NecroPhile]

In Ys I & II, there is dialogue text for Adol in the scene where Lilia finds him at the beginning of Ys II. But I think that Adol's dialogue and the couple of lines from Alex in Lunar Sega-CD were added to the english versions.

That's the part that I was talking about.  After a quick look on Youtube, it looks like the same scene is in the Japanese original, though the text is in Japanese, so I could be wrong about who's doing the talking.

[TurboXray]

(c) rpg...classic??

Computer RPG. Either western or european style.

[nat]

What about Fighter RPGs? Like Flash Hiders?

[Nazi NecroPhile]

Computer RPG. Either western or european style.

Like with cowboys and indians? 

What about Fighter RPGs? Like Flash Hiders?

I'd say that they're fighting games with some RPG elements, since fighting is 90% of the game.

[Joe Redifer]

What about those card-based RPGs like Phantasy Star Online 3 or whatever it was?

[nectarsis]

Card based RPG derivative??

[rag-time4]

Computer RPG. Either western or european style.

Like with cowboys and indians? 

Don't get me started on Westerns!! I would love to see an RPG that was a true Western!

I still need to get LaPlace no Ma!

[GUTS]

Western RPGs are awesome, as much as I love Final Fantasy I think I prefer western style RPGs.  We got Might & Magic III and Order of the Griffon though, those two rock super hard (not counting Dungeon Master since they fucked it up so badly).  I wish someone would have ported Eye of the Beholder II or any number of computer RPGs to the Duo instead of stuff like Shadow of the Beast & Loom (even though I like both of those).

[nat]

Loom was awesome, but they should have left that on the PC. At least they could've upgraded the graphics for the Duo version beyond EGA (they didn't).

[Joe Redifer]

So what about all of those people who say Shenmue isn't an RPG, even though it clearly is?

[Keranu]

A lot of RPGs have MUTE characters.  Ys, for instance.

Adol has a line or two during the cinema between Book I and Book II.

I'm pretty sure he doesn't. The only line I can remember from Adol in Ys Book I & II was when he was disquised as a monster at Solomon's Shrine in Ys II and told the guard the secret passcode to get in. He was quite the chitter chatter (compared to other Ys games) in Ys III, but he got quiet again in Dawn of Ys (I think like two lines).

In Ys I & II, there is dialogue text for Adol in the scene where Lilia finds him at the beginning of Ys II. But I think that Adol's dialogue and the couple of lines from Alex in Lunar Sega-CD were added to the english versions.

Oh yeah, that's right. I think Adol says "Where am I?" and "Right. Lets go." during that part. To be honest though, I never considered that to be a cinema between Ys I and II, but a cinema limited to just Ys II myself.

[OldRover]

So what about all of those people who say Shenmue isn't an RPG, even though it clearly is?

I don't really know much about Shenmue, but from reading the Wikipedia entry, it looks very much like an RPG.

Oh guys...about Ys II...there's another part where Adol speaks...when he's turned into a goon and finds the runaway's hideout. "Wait a second, I am a man. I was turned into a goon by the wizard" or something along those lines.