What vaporware game are you most looking forward to?

[Keranu]

And by the way again, Tongueman's Logic rules! I was addicted to the demo he released and look forward to the full version when it's done. I hear he is having problems finding a musician, which is kind of odd to me since those seem to be easy to find. Maybe he needs PSG musicians?

[Joe Redifer]

I am playing through Magic Knight Rayearth right now and the title screen says something like "Translation ©1992-1996 Working Designs", so I think they only took credit for the translations.  I'll have to try and stomach my way through the Exile games next.

[ParanoiaDragon]

I have the Saturn version of L: SSS, & it seems like it's worse then the PS1 version.  There's slowdown everywhere, I remember the first cave especially, it just looked & felt horrible.  I don't remember the PS1 version being like that, so I've never understood people's complaints against it.

[Emerald Rocker]

Working Designs did an awesome job with Rayearth.  I think that's one of their best, personally.

[CrackTiger]

I have the Saturn version of L: SSS, & it seems like it's worse then the PS1 version.  There's slowdown everywhere, I remember the first cave especially, it just looked & felt horrible.  I don't remember the PS1 version being like that, so I've never understood people's complaints against it.

The battle bg's went from super colorful on Saturn to Genesis looking on PSX. Most of the Saturn specific effects were replaced by mediocre ones instead of taking advantage of the PSX's strengths. Other than the load & Saving times, I don't remember everything specifically, but I played the Saturn version to death for a couple years before trying the PSX version.

Going in, I expected the same game with some improvements. I was shocked at how much was lost in the translation. Same with Grandia, again 2 things that really stood out were the seriously degraded battle bg's and ruined Saturn sfx.

I've never heard anyone say anything negative about either PSX Lunar before. I just remember my own experience.

What sucks about WD is that they took ALL the credit for EVERYTHING. Even today most people believe WD actually DEVELOPED games like Lunar, etc.

Bastards.

I don't think WD took the credit for everything, but the WD fanboys made the impression.

By the way, I liked the Lunar remakes also, I don't think they're as bad as people say. I do prefer the originals more (and I even played those ones afterwards) but they're all good.

I prefer the Lunar SSS remake to the original. I still like the original for what it is, but it's not so hot aesthetically or gameplay wise and feels like(and probably is) an unfinished game.

But Lunar EB Sega-CD is the opposite. I think it'll always be underappreciated for what it is, even though it enjoys a pretty good rep. It's more impressive to me than any of the big SNES RPG's.

[CrackTiger]

Working Designs did an awesome job with Rayearth.  I think that's one of their best, personally.

Yeah, Rayearth was one of their best localizations. I like how they left the "puuu?" voice of the little animal intact. 

[Keranu]

I'll have to try and stomach my way through the Exile games next.

The WD humor is pretty toned down in the Exile games. There was one cool line a boss said which was "It will be our Cosmic Fantasy!", but beside that the only one I can really think of is "Man that guy has bad B.O." or something. Oh and also in Exile 2, there were signs that advertised Cosmic Fantasy 3 I think, much like how Cosmic Fantasy 2 did.

[ParanoiaDragon]

Yeah, in Exile 2, if you go into the bushes near the god of hate's lair, you meet up with someone, & they talk about going over to Cosmic Fantasy 3, & Nayam wants to sing in it, but then he says something like I'll see you in Exile 3.

[Joe Redifer]

Working Designs did an awesome job with Rayearth.  I think that's one of their best, personally.

Agreed, it's really good.  The pop-culture references aren't overwhelming.  So far I've seen a Bob Vila reference (do they know who he is in Tokyo?) and I think maybe one other thing.  Other than that it lets me enjoy the game.

I don't mind companies advertising their other games in a game.

[CrackTiger]

Working Designs did an awesome job with Rayearth.  I think that's one of their best, personally.

Agreed, it's really good.  The pop-culture references aren't overwhelming.  So far I've seen a Bob Vila reference (do they know who he is in Tokyo?) and I think maybe one other thing.  Other than that it lets me enjoy the game.

I don't mind companies advertising their other games in a game.

Bob Vila sama is a major celebrity in Japan. He got paid $4 million for his last wasabi commercial. 

[OldRover]

The original Exile had a lot of good dialogue but Exile II had a couple of "ruin spots" where they just dropped the ball, such as talking about how the cable was cut and no more MST3K. Little things like that diminished some of the seriousness of the game. Of course, couple that with the bugs list that's a mile long and it turned out feeling like a half-assed attempt at a sequel to a game that could never be properly sequelled in the first place. For the Lunar games...I never played the original Eternal Blue, but I did pick up a copy of the PSX remake...and owned it for 10 minutes before returning it to the store. The game was CRAP. Silver Star Story was decent, I liked the expansive storyline, but the game mechanics compared to the original was also crap and the game just felt like a constant drag that was very hard to enjoy.

Anyone ever play Vay? The humor in that one is actually pretty decent...of particular note are the talking horses and dogs ("Do you expect me to give you some vital information? I'm just a dog!") and the reference to karaoke singers...

[CrackTiger]

The original Exile had a lot of good dialogue but Exile II had a couple of "ruin spots" where they just dropped the ball, such as talking about how the cable was cut and no more MST3K. Little things like that diminished some of the seriousness of the game. Of course, couple that with the bugs list that's a mile long and it turned out feeling like a half-assed attempt at a sequel to a game that could never be properly sequelled in the first place. For the Lunar games...I never played the original Eternal Blue, but I did pick up a copy of the PSX remake...and owned it for 10 minutes before returning it to the store. The game was CRAP. Silver Star Story was decent, I liked the expansive storyline, but the game mechanics compared to the original was also crap and the game just felt like a constant drag that was very hard to enjoy.

Anyone ever play Vay? The humor in that one is actually pretty decent...of particular note are the talking horses and dogs ("Do you expect me to give you some vital information? I'm just a dog!") and the reference to karaoke singers...

I love Vay, it's a good plain RPG and it gets bonus points from me for having a Dragon Slayer style display. I also like all the hidden stuff and the rings(?) with effects. I remember that the last area's music reminded me of Thriller and thast the final boss music was all of a sudden crazy techno unlike anything in the game before.

Vay is all over the place, so any jokiness doesn't detract from the game. But WD actually added to the game's darkness. Even though I never got attached to the characters, that scene where someone gets killed was disturbing.

But Vay is another game where if WD didn't artificially increase the difficulty again, they should've at least fixed the few super long boss battles.

The Lunar EB remake should've just upgraded the graphics and cinemas and left it as-is. I hope that WD didn't add in the paying to save the game feature again with the PSX version? 

[ParanoiaDragon]

Well, for what it's worth, I do like the fact that WD did some reprogramming of the bg's in Exile 2, so that there was some depth to some of the levels.  The main one being the first levels clouds, which, in the Jp version, were totally static!

[Joe Redifer]

That "pay to save" in Lunar 2 never really bothered me, and I am a save whore.  I always had more than enough whatever-it-was that I had to pay, except maybe in the very beginning of the game.  I thought Lunar 1 was super-short, but pretty good.  I think Lunar 2 is a lot better if you've played through Lunar 1 first, and I played them back to back (followed by the ever-so-spectacular DS Lunar).  I have never played the PS or Saturn Lunars, but I would like to have the MPEG version along with the MPEG card for my Saturn.  Somebody send me an MPEG card NOW!

Did Victor Ireland and Bernie Stolar have a bad break-up from a sexual relationship or something?  I know they hated each other and that hatred was basically the reason Dragon Force II never came to the US.  How wrong are my facts?

[SignOfZeta]

WD left Sega after getting a shitty booth location at E3 or CES or wherever it was. It was some petty shit followed by petty shit. Both those guys are fucking assholes and the US Saturn market could have been loads better if they were just...more cool.

Obviously Bernie could be blamed for DF2 %100 since he headed SoA at the time, and that is a Sega produced game in Japan. Even if WD wasn't interested, Sega should have been publishing the DF games themselves in the first place. Same with Sakura Wars, the rest of Shining Force, and supporting the RAM cart(s).

As long as this has turned into a WD thread, I'll just give my two cents. Vic is a puerile egotist and his crap company got what it deserved. Building a huge fan base around putting someone else's (usually) excellent product in a (way too) shiny box with English text is a piss poor situation. The more people complained about their idiotic "humor", and multi-year delays, the more idiotic the humor got, and the games were even later eventually leaving us with a situation where...it was almost like WD was holding Lunar for ransom, and the ransom was that they had to listen to their retarded jokes. Like...Vogon poetry...

Atlus is everything people thought WD was (ie: niche gaming saviour) . They translate the game, do it on a regular schedule, and get the fuck out of the way. Would Summon Night be cooler with stupid fold up paper people, or a crap puppet? No. It wouldn't. I like a good LE as much as the next guy, but really WD's LEs weren't that great most of the time, and even when the stuff turned out cool (the pendant from Lunar 2) they pack in a half dozen other stupid-ass things like paper people or "hilarious" audio bloopers from stupid English voice actors I didn't want to hear in the first place.

[GUTS]

Atlus has always been pretty cool, but that fucking douchebag that works for them Vyerslives or whatever on their message board has soured me on the company.  He's a total ass fuck prick to everyone who doesn't worship their company, I stopped visiting their forums after reading some super un-professional posts by the guy.  If anyone from Microsoft or some other company pulled that shit they'd be fired in a second, but Atlus lets him get away with it for some reason.  As a result all the regulars there think they have free reign to be total cock suckers too.

[ParanoiaDragon]

I used to talk to one of the Shirley Bros. every so often, & whichever one it was, he was really cool.  We'd talk for a an hour about different games for the Turbo, & what they were looking forward to, & what they were planning on doing, etc.  Those were good times.

[CrackTiger]

Well, for what it's worth, I do like the fact that WD did some reprogramming of the bg's in Exile 2, so that there was some depth to some of the levels.  The main one being the first levels clouds, which, in the Jp version, were totally static!

If that's true, then that's awesome. I'd still wonder if WD really did it from scratch or if it was something leftover from the developer like the changes to Magical Chase.

[ParanoiaDragon]

I'm not sure if they did it from scratch, but it sounded like they did.  But I have both versions, & they deffinitly improved the graphics some for their release.

[Joe Redifer]

Adding scrolling to a section of the BG isn't hard to do.  They did it for Popful Mail as well.

Update:  Found a masturbation joke in Magic Knight Rayearth.  Was rolling on the floor laughing for 2 straight hours.  Those WD guys are just TOO witty!

[esteban]

Adding scrolling to a section of the BG isn't hard to do.  They did it for Popful Mail as well.

If I understand the technical issues correctly, adding parallax to a pce game is much more involved than doing the same for Genny, Sega CD, etc. because the pce parallax was achieved by coding since the hardware didn't support extra planes like Genny and company...

That said, I don't think that adding parallax in Exile 2 was God's gift (via WD) to tg-16 fans, though the gesture was nice.

[Joe Redifer]

Since I PWN Exile 2, I'll have to play it to see these highly coveted background scrolling sequences.  Then I will decide how much work WD did.  If it isn't much, I will want a partial refund for the game since I bought it brand new at release and have PWND it ever since.

[OldRover]

Highly coveted? They're really nothing special. I bought it brand new as well and never thought twice about whether it had parallax or not.

[Joe Redifer]

Same here, though it has been awhile... a very loooong while since I have played it.  I can still remember the opening voice, though... "SSssssssssssaaaaadlerrrrr.  I have come from afar..... to sspeed you to your... desssssstiny!"

[ParanoiaDragon]

I didn't say it was highly coveted, I just think it was cool that they did it

[Joe Redifer]

It is highly coveted and cherished by all Turbo fans.  Case closed!

[SignOfZeta]

I sold mine for $10 less that retail six or seven years after buying it. I then sold the cardboard slip-case thing to someone for $5 so I basically paid $5 to rent the game for a very long time. In that time I only finished it once because the collision is *horrible* even though the cinemas are great.

[Keranu]

The collision detection is so bad in Exile II, it's really ashame too since the concept of the game is so great. If the collision was fixed and had music more like the first one, then I'd prefer it over the original. Since it doesn't, I like the first one more.

[esteban]

It is highly coveted and cherished by all Turbo fans.  Case closed!

I know you're jesting, but Exile 2 is shunned by most folks. It wasn't until we had some lengthy discussions about it here that I decided to give it another chance. Paying full-price for this game left a bad taste in my mouth for a long time.

[GUTS]

My only problem with Exile II is the way Sadler runs 1 inch away from the edge of the screen, its maddening.  I can handle the difficulty and bad collision detection, that didn't bother me too much.  Its a shame that Working Designs didn't have more time with the game, since they added some parallax they probably could have fixed all the other problems if they had waited 6 months to publish it.

[CrackTiger]

It is highly coveted and cherished by all Turbo fans.  Case closed!

I know you're jesting, but Exile 2 is shunned by most folks. It wasn't until we had some lengthy discussions about it here that I decided to give it another chance. Paying full-price for this game left a bad taste in my mouth for a long time.

The game may be shunned by the small number of game playing Turbo/PCE owners, but the collector's love jacking up the price of this dust magnet.

I loved the original and tried really hard to get through the Turbo sequal, but got stuck at one boss and gave up for good. I still hope to give it another chance some day.

I didn't say it was highly coveted, I just think it was cool that they did it

Exactly. Even when WD did stuff I didn't like(like charging to save), it's cool that they did some actual programming to try to improve some games. I really wanted to see how their Neo Geo ports would've turned out.

[ParanoiaDragon]

Yeah, I hope that someday, somehow, those Neo Geo ports will make it onto the net or something.  Because that Shirley Brother I used to talk to, said they were done.  As for Exile 2, I do enjoy the game, but like Guts said, I don't like how close you get to the end of the screen.  I do like the music better in the first one, but, in a way, I'd say the music fits the 2nd game better.

[Keranu]

Ahh yes I forgot about the bad scrolling Exile II. You had to be like 32 pixels from the end of the screen for it to scroll, it was really annoying.

[Joe Redifer]

I remember Exile 1 and 2 both being super-baby-easy, like Cadash.  I know I beat them both, so they must be easy.

Exile II runs 1 inch from the edge of the screen?  Just like Popful Mail!  Damn Working Designs and Victor Ireland, why is he always drunk when he decides where to place my character in relation to the edge of the screen?

[OldRover]

The original Exile was pretty easy once you learned the game. Exile II was hard but for the wrong reasons. Once you learned the flaws though, you could easily learn ways to exploit them and the game ended up being almost as easy as the first. Most people never made it past Djinn though, I can't tell you how many emails I've gotten from frustrated players wanting to know how to beat that asshole. I always thought Djinn should be the final boss, because the real final boss of the game was a pathetic joke, even compared to the creampuff final boss of the original Exile. And the Japanese version is even easier.

The sad part is that Exile II, due to its glitches, flaws, and annoyances (such as the ultra-annoying dialogue sound effect!), has little replay value whereas the original Exile has plenty of replay value despite being easier and a little shorter.

Cadash? Relatively easy, depending on who you play as and your knowledge of enemy patterns and level makeup. I found the Ninja, despite having low attack power at the beginning, to be the most powerful character once you make it into the second world and ESPECIALLY after obtaining the Dagger Of Swallow. Now there's a game again with plenty of replay value, I must have played all three versions (Arcade, TG, and Genesis) hundreds of times over.

[Keranu]

I've never found any part in Exile II, besides the last dungeon (mainly due to it's subboss), to be difficult really. Dijin took me a few tries to beat, but he was pretty easy once I got the hang of it.

[ParanoiaDragon]

Who's Dijin, is that the god of hate?  Anyways, yeah, the only really difficult part for me, is & always has been the last level of Exile 2, but, I've beaten it, so, it's beatable

[esteban]

The original Exile was pretty easy once you learned the game. Exile II was hard but for the wrong reasons. Once you learned the flaws though, you could easily learn ways to exploit them and the game ended up being almost as easy as the first. Most people never made it past Djinn though, I can't tell you how many emails I've gotten from frustrated players wanting to know how to beat that asshole. I always thought Djinn should be the final boss, because the real final boss of the game was a pathetic joke, even compared to the creampuff final boss of the original Exile. And the Japanese version is even easier.

The sad part is that Exile II, due to its glitches, flaws, and annoyances (such as the ultra-annoying dialogue sound effect!), has little replay value whereas the original Exile has plenty of replay value despite being easier and a little shorter.

Cadash? Relatively easy, depending on who you play as and your knowledge of enemy patterns and level makeup. I found the Ninja, despite having low attack power at the beginning, to be the most powerful character once you make it into the second world and ESPECIALLY after obtaining the Dagger Of Swallow. Now there's a game again with plenty of replay value, I must have played all three versions (Arcade, TG, and Genesis) hundreds of times over.

I totally agree: Exile and Cadash have great replay value. And Cadash is a blast because the choice of characters provide a slightly different experience through the game (Tangent: Dungeon Explorer is kool like this as well, assuming you use the powerups to focus on the characters' strengths).

[termis]

I'm definitely one of those that got stuck on Exile 2.  And yeah, that whole "you gotta be at the edge of the screen before you scroll" was annoying as hell.

[OldRover]

Djinn is Do-Tar's guardian, the sub-boss of the final areas, who appears at the end of The Great Ark.
Crully is the god of hate at the top of the Spire Of Eternity. The game is definately beatable once you work the flaws to your advantage (killing the bat-things in the Tower Of Souls using Rumi's edge-of-screen-knife-flaw comes to mind...those things are a pain otherwise).

[Keranu]

Djinn is Do-Tar's guardian, the sub-boss of the final areas, who appears at the end of The Great Ark.
Crully is the god of hate at the top of the Spire Of Eternity. The game is definately beatable once you work the flaws to your advantage (killing the bat-things in the Tower Of Souls using Rumi's edge-of-screen-knife-flaw comes to mind...those things are a pain otherwise).

Whoops, I thought Djinn was that dude with the axe that joins your party. But yeah, that Dijin guy is tough.

[CrackTiger]

I made it to the waterfall boss, pulled off the most amazing acrobatic gaming skillz you've (n)ever seen and still couldn't beat the cheapo. I haven't played it since.

[OldRover]

That would be Lawrence. Once you get him, he completely kicks ass in the three areas that follow. But yeah, he's a cheapo when you fight him, and it's mainly due to the aforementioned problems with the game engine itself.

[Joe Redifer]

You guys really know your Exile II.  You must be real diehard fans of that game.

[OldRover]

Most of the games I've played hundreds of times, I can recall specific details for. Maybe I should write an Exile II guide or something...