So why do people like Bloodlines so much?

TheClash603 · 01/31/2011, 12:05 AM

The only arcade of any substance I've been to in the US is in China Town, NYC. Even that place is only... meh.

SignOfZeta · 01/31/2011, 01:44 AM

They have good arcades in casinos, but you have to actually go to the casino so...fuck that shit. I haven't been to an amusement park like Cedar Point or King's Island in ages, but in the 90s those places were massive and had everything. Also, truck stops. They aren't amazing quantity-wise, but truck stops often have the latest and greatest games.

You have to be willing to travel, and since this is the US "travel" means hundreds of miles. Often times though great stuff is just around the corner and you don't even know it.

Not only does Michigan have Pete's, and Tilt Town, but it also has Marvin's Marvelous Mechanical Museum (rad, Youtube it) and this is Michigan one of the most depressed economies in the country. There has to be something near you. I'm sure there are many people in Michigan that don't know about these cool places either.

blueraven · 01/31/2011, 01:48 AM

Yeah I really like Dracula X too.

chany60126 · 01/31/2011, 08:59 AM

Galloping Ghost Arcade is like a breath of fresh air. Previously the only way to play retro arcades was to go to certain bowling alleys or some run-down discount outlets where the cabinets are in pitiful state.

The arcades at Galloping Ghosts are in great condition and nicely refurbished for the most part. Sure there are some that are still in need of repairs, but they'll get fixed in a matter of time.

It's nice to see that the owners are really passionate about arcade gaming.

JoshTurboTrollX · 01/31/2011, 10:13 AM

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 01/28/2011, 09:44 PM
Quote from: JoshTurboTrollX-16 on 01/28/2011, 05:22 PMBloodlines, has great graphics...
...what?

Quote from: JoshTurboTrollX-16 on 01/28/2011, 05:22 PMBloodlines, has great graphics...

SignOfZeta · 01/31/2011, 12:53 PM

I snapped this pic with my phone the last time I was at Pete's:

/image.jpg

Recent new-old games, Tron, Donkey Kong, Contra, POW, and Outrun. The SFII' is Rainbow Edition, btw.

I wish this place had a Joust. I actually don't know of any Joust machines locally. I like Joust.

DragonmasterDan · 01/31/2011, 01:06 PM

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 01/31/2011, 12:53 PMI snapped this pic with my phone the last time I was at Pete's:

/image.jpg

Recent new-old games, Tron, Donkey Kong, Contra, POW, and Outrun. The SFII' is Rainbow Edition, btw.

I wish this place had a Joust. I actually don't know of any Joust machines locally. I like Joust.

GGA has Joust.

SignOfZeta · 01/31/2011, 07:28 PM

I'm talking with some friends here in Michigan about organizing a trip there.

ddd1234 · 03/28/2011, 11:02 PM

I don't know why people hesitate to call a "good game" good.

I hear people trash Donkey Kong Country, Contra 3, Castlevania 4....now the victim is Castlevania bloodlines.

I don't know what to tell ya man!

The game just feels great. In other words, the controls are spot on!

The levels have a strong "Gothic" horror feel and atmosphere.

The music is mint, and the bosses are sweet!

Come on man, it's old school Castlevania done right! How can you go wrong with that?

Mathius · 03/29/2011, 01:48 AM

I just picked up Bloodlines a few weeks ago. I like it for what it is. The graphical effects are great in spots, but I know Konami can do a lot better with the Mega Drive hardware. Just look at Rocket Knight Adventure! Bloodlines feels a tad rushed to me.

SignOfZeta · 03/29/2011, 03:15 AM

Quote from: ddd1234 on 03/28/2011, 11:02 PMI don't know why people hesitate to call a "good game" good.

I hear people trash Donkey Kong Country, Contra 3, Castlevania 4....now the victim is Castlevania bloodlines.

DKC is so so so fucking lame. Its a technical trick that has long outlived what was impressive about it at the time. You run right and occasionally jump while collecting about a trillion bananas. Its basically a slower Sonic, but with blocky low-end CG. Its a shame there are so many of these fucking things. They could have spent that money on...a sequel to Uniracers, for example.

QuoteThe game just feels great. In other words, the controls are spot on!

The levels have a strong "Gothic" horror feel and atmosphere.

The music is mint, and the bosses are sweet!

Come on man, it's old school Castlevania done right! How can you go wrong with that?

Well, it isn't. That's the problem. The controls aren't bad or anything, they just aren't...right. Everything moves too fucking fast, but in the same way they moved in the regular speed games. It honestly feels like its over clocked or some shit.

Old School Castlevania Done Right would be Dracula X or the X68k game. This is just some bastard creation that doesn't fit with the FC era games, or the Metroid-Vania era games.

Also, the graphics really aren't very good. The color choices are just terrible, and there is a great deal of nothing in many places.

nectarsis · 03/29/2011, 03:19 AM

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 03/29/2011, 03:15 AMDKC is so so so fucking lame. Its a technical trick that has long outlived what was impressive about it at the time. You run right and occasionally jump while collecting about a trillion bananas. Its basically a slower Sonic, but with blocky low-end CG. Its a shame there are so many of these fucking things. They could have spent that money on...a sequel to Uniracers, for example.

ddd1234 · 03/29/2011, 04:07 PM

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 03/29/2011, 03:15 AMDKC is so so so fucking lame. Its a technical trick that has long outlived what was impressive about it at the time. You run right and occasionally jump while collecting about a trillion bananas.

How can you say something like that? In my opinion, the DCK series is a labor of love.
I mean you gotta appropriate the variety here, therefore by saying that it's just another "collect and jump" sorta game is you being ignorant.
There are too many examples to list. But if you played part 2 and 3, you'll be amazed at the varied number of challenges in each level.
This is the part people tend to overlook in these games. I never seen developers switch up the gameplay in many platform games, even in Sonic, Mario and Bonk.

Also, I prefer the speed of Castlevania Bloodlines over Dracula X, because Richter moves like a snail. No offence!

Mathius · 03/29/2011, 04:09 PM

I thoroughly enjoyed DKC.

Raizen1984 · 03/30/2011, 02:05 PM

There's nothing wrong with Donkey Kong Country.

I love this little snippet, though:

QuoteYou run right and occasionally jump while collecting about a trillion bananas.

I guess it's supposed to be a complaint against the design, but it basically sums up the design philosophy of every platformer ever from the 8 and 16-bit era's (just replace banana's with coins/rings/etc.)

Joe Redifer · 03/30/2011, 06:19 PM

I was never very impressed by the digitized graphics of Donkey Kong Country. I became bored with the first game and the second was just dreadful. Didn't bother with the third.

esteban · 03/31/2011, 01:24 AM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 03/30/2011, 06:19 PMI was never very impressed by the digitized graphics of Donkey Kong Country. I became bored with the first game and the second was just dreadful. Didn't bother with the third.

I don't think it has aged well (aesthetically). Back in the day, there certainly was a "novelty factor" to the graphics, but now...

As far as gameplay, I thought it was a bit tedious (especially the cannon stuff...how goddamn boring it got!).

Sorry

SignOfZeta · 03/31/2011, 02:03 AM

Quote from: Raizen1984 on 03/30/2011, 02:05 PMThere's nothing wrong with Donkey Kong Country.

I love this little snippet, though:

QuoteYou run right and occasionally jump while collecting about a trillion bananas.

I guess it's supposed to be a complaint against the design, but it basically sums up the design philosophy of every platformer ever from the 8 and 16-bit era's (just replace banana's with coins/rings/etc.)

Have you actually played platform games? There is usually more to do than just that stuff.

This is why I mentioned Sonic, which was unique in the way it was so smooth and straightforward. Very few bottomless pits, spikes, climbing, all enemies died easy (or could just be ignored outright), there were a bunch of rings to collect but they could easily be ignored, etc.

DKC is just like that...except slower, less flexible, and WAY less stylish. Sonic stripped away the shooting and the back tracking and the climbing and the tanuki suits and the brick breaking and the shops and the key collecting and all that stuff that normally makes a platform game so it could present its ultra cool vibe to you in a pure fashion. DKC sorta tried to do the same thing, but it doesn't fucking have a vibe, cool or otherwise so you just have some low end mid-90s CG shite. The whole experience is like a extended dance remix of a song you hate with a 2 minute breakdown in the middle where absolutely nothing of interest goes on.

Games like Yoshi's Island, Metal Slug, Rayman or Sonic look every bit as cool as they did when they came out. DKC was dated looking by the time DKC 2 came out, and now they just look like cancelled Jaguar games.

I should specify that there is one game in this series (kinda) that I like and that is Donkey Kong Jungle Beat. This is the GC DK platform game you play with the bongo controller originally designed for Donkey Konga. Its basically as simple as the SNES games, but the input method makes it extremely fun. Its no Donkey Kong 2 (best DK game ever!) but its really a blast. I showed this game to my girlfriend, fell asleep, and when I woke up at 6:30 in the morning she was just finishing it. I'm pretty sure the last platformer she played was SMB1 on the NES in the 80s.

geise · 03/31/2011, 11:34 AM

Using pre-rendered 3d sprites is always a bad idea. It's also a really bad idea using so-so 3d sprites (for even mid 90's standards) with limited frame animation. You are making a game that will not age well at all. I have yet to play a game that uses pre-rendered sprites and have the game really play well.

Now with Bloodlines I have always liked it. It's not my favorite by any means but it still feels like a CV game to me, with more of a Genesis/MD feel. I think that's why a lot of people are kind of on the fence with this game. Yeah I also feel it could have used a better choice for colors but the genesis doesn't really have a shit ton of colors to choose from to begin with, let alone on screen at a time. I liked the music as well. Again, good to me by Genesis/MD standards.

Nazi NecroPhile · 03/31/2011, 11:51 AM

Quote from: geise on 03/31/2011, 11:34 AMI have yet to play a game that uses pre-rendered sprites and have the game really play well.

Haven't you played Sapphire and Silpheed?

geise · 03/31/2011, 01:04 PM

Yes I have. I seriously don't think Sapphire plays all that great for a shooter. Silpheed is kind of a different story. The backgrounds are pre-rendered but I'm not sure about the ship and enemies. That game doesn't play great either. I still like both games though. I am mainly talking about action/platform games. Guess I should have specified.

SignOfZeta · 03/31/2011, 05:12 PM

Quote from: guest on 03/31/2011, 11:51 AM
Quote from: geise on 03/31/2011, 11:34 AMI have yet to play a game that uses pre-rendered sprites and have the game really play well.
Haven't you played Sapphire and Silpheed?

Pulstar is pre-rendered, and that's one of my favorite shooters ever.

Opethian · 03/31/2011, 05:17 PM

Quoteand now they just look like cancelled Jaguar games.

This ^^

TurboXray · 04/01/2011, 03:03 PM

QuoteHow can you say something like that? In my opinion, the DCK series is a labor of love.

In my opinion, that game is extremely boring. I while I didn't put much time into the 2nd or 3rd one, I did play the first one BITD when it first came out that week. I beat it too. I was not impressed by anything about the game. Least of all the game itself. The graphics were fine. The music was lame or forgettable (average). I guess if you never had a PC with VGA card, all those colors and poor digitized graphics might have seemed impressive, but it was nothing new for me. But they were what they were. It was the game design that really let me down. It started off ok. After the first boss, I expected the game to really pick up - like original SMW, or SMB3, or any other good platformer that paces itself. But it didn't. And it just got really boring. Extremely unexpected for a supposedly 'Nintendo' title. I'll never understand the attraction the game gets. I can only assume a few things: first impressions of BITD that carry the status along now (nostalgia), and Nintendo fans loving anything Nintendo or Rare made without question, and the odd few exceptions of gamers actually liking the game for what it is (though this wouldn't account for the popularity). Maybe the 2nd and 3rd games in the series address the issues of the first game, but from the videos I've seen - doesn't look like it. Likes like the same tedious boring stuff. And from the little I've played of them. I have no interest (currently) in giving them a second chance. I'd have to say one would actually have needed to like the first game, to appreciate the sequels. And there in lies the problem.

QuoteI mean you gotta appropriate the variety here, therefore by saying that it's just another "collect and jump" sorta game is you being ignorant. There are too many examples to list. But if you played part 2 and 3, you'll be amazed at the varied number of challenges in each level.
This is the part people tend to overlook in these games. I never seen developers switch up the gameplay in many platform games, even in Sonic, Mario and Bonk.

Bonk went through a series of changes. Compare Bonk III to the first Bonk. They're almost nothing a like; gameplay mechanics, level design, etc. Then there's the SNES games.

QuoteAlso, I prefer the speed of Castlevania Bloodlines over Dracula X, because Richter moves like a snail. No offence!

Yeah, you must be referring to the SNES Dracula X. Richter moves faster in Rondo than the SNES one.

QuoteYeah I also feel it could have used a better choice for colors but the genesis doesn't really have a shit ton of colors to choose from to begin with, let alone on screen at a time. I liked the music as well. Again, good to me by Genesis/MD standards.

While true, they could have done a helluva lot better than what they did. I was really disappointed BITD with the colors in that game. And from a company like Konami. Sorry, you can't blame the Genesis graphics on this one.

esteban · 04/01/2011, 04:12 PM

We still haven't agreed that DKC gets rather tedious?! Damn it people.

termis · 04/01/2011, 11:46 PM

DKC was pretty cool in its time. I didn't enjoy it enough to play it all the way through, but still a pretty decent game IMO -- and I was interested enough to try it again some 15 years later, and still managed get some fun out of it (but still didn't finish it second time around).

Sonic is very stylish indeed, but I think the speed factor ended up being a bit gimmicky for me in the end. The "run-around-quick-and-just-get-to-the-end" gameplay can get stale after awhile. One of the main reasons for a platformer is to well, jump around platforms and explore the settings, power-ups, etc, but with things moving around so quick, the "explore" part is a bit lost on Sonic games. Because of it, I never bothered too much with Sonic games after part 2.

TurboXray · 04/02/2011, 01:23 AM

Quote from: termis on 04/01/2011, 11:46 PMSonic is very stylish indeed, but I think the speed factor ended up being a bit gimmicky for me in the end. The "run-around-quick-and-just-get-to-the-end" gameplay can get stale after awhile. One of the main reasons for a platformer is to well, jump around platforms and explore the settings, power-ups, etc, but with things moving around so quick, the "explore" part is a bit lost on Sonic games. Because of it, I never bothered too much with Sonic games after part 2.

I feel the same way about the Sonic series. The first was incredible surprise when it came out. It was definitely different from anything else. The second didn't really change much, but it didn't screw up the game either. But after playing a lot of the 2nd one, I got bored of the series. Well, I did try Sonic CD. That was the game that turned me off to the series. I didn't even bother with Sonic 3 or such (never liked the GG versions).

nat · 04/02/2011, 01:32 AM

You're clearly remembering wrong, Sonic CD absolutely destroys the rest of the series. Go play it again like you did with SSS/FS and you'll see I'm right.

Joe Redifer · 04/02/2011, 03:06 AM

No, he's remembering correctly.

esteban · 04/02/2011, 10:03 AM

Quote from: nat on 04/02/2011, 01:32 AMYou're clearly remembering wrong, Sonic CD absolutely destroys the rest of the series. Go play it again like you did with SSS/FS and you'll see I'm right.

I wanted to love Sonic CD, but, sadly, it simply can't compare to Sonic 1 & 2.

Or Zonik, for that matter.

Tatsujin · 04/02/2011, 10:54 AM

For me as well, Sonic 1 = THE SONIC

I've got more and more bored with every new sequel came out.

Mathius · 04/02/2011, 11:36 AM

I enjoy the Sonic games on the Genesis, but I hate the enemy placement! Everytime I have a lot of speed built up I run into an enemy and lose all my hard earned rings!

Joe Redifer · 04/02/2011, 03:00 PM

The second they introduced Tails is the second I stopped caring about Sonic games. Sonic CD's greatest achievement is not having Tails.

DragonmasterDan · 04/02/2011, 04:31 PM

Sonic CD introduces the past present and future system, so each level has three versions. The level design is rock solid and allows you to explore the levels and not just run right through them all. IMO it's the pinnacle of that series.

TurboXray · 04/02/2011, 04:32 PM

Quote from: nat on 04/02/2011, 01:32 AMYou're clearly remembering wrong, Sonic CD absolutely destroys the rest of the series. Go play it again like you did with SSS/FS and you'll see I'm right.

Nah, Sonic CD is one of those games. You either like it or you don't. It was made by a different team too, though I didn't find that out until a couple of years ago (I currently blame it on that). Trust me, I -tried- to like Sonic CD over the years. I actually like the US opening song! But I could just never get into the game. It just felt like rehash. An not good rehash either (a lot of good parts were gone).

I didn't mind the two Sonic games that came out for the Dreamcast. Though I didn't beat either of them, I did play quite a bit of both. They didn't 'feel' like the original Sonic games, but that was ok. 3D environments really do change a lot gameplay mechanics.

DragonmasterDan · 04/02/2011, 04:44 PM

Quote from: TurboXray on 04/02/2011, 04:32 PMNah, Sonic CD is one of those games. You either like it or you don't. It was made by a different team too, though I didn't find that out until a couple of years ago (I currently blame it on that). Trust me, I -tried- to like Sonic CD over the years. I actually like the US opening song! But I could just never get into the game. It just felt like rehash. An not good rehash either (a lot of good parts were gone).

I didn't mind the two Sonic games that came out for the Dreamcast. Though I didn't beat either of them, I did play quite a bit of both. They didn't 'feel' like the original Sonic games, but that was ok. 3D environments really do change a lot gameplay mechanics.

I believe Sonic 2 was made by a different team than Sonic 1. STI (Sega Technical Institute based in the US) developed Sonic 2 under Yuji Naka, Sonic CD was developed by the Sonic 1 programmers under Naoto Ohshima.

TurboXray · 04/02/2011, 04:56 PM

Wiki says original leader programmer and half the team when to the US under STI. I guess that was the better half ;)

Raizen1984 · 04/02/2011, 09:08 PM

Sonic 3 & Knuckles is still the best Sonic game I've ever played. And I've played pretty much all of them.

SignOfZeta · 04/02/2011, 09:50 PM

Its really interesting to see the range of opinion on Sonic. For me, Sonic 2 was hands down the best game. All the Genesis titles were decent, but Sonic 1 and CD had no spin dash, and once you got used to the spin dash in 2...it became harder to go back and enjoy a game without it. Sonic 3 was just to gimmicky and easy.

The Neo Geo Pocket game is pretty great too. Its essentially a level hack of Sonic 2.

nat · 04/07/2011, 08:28 PM

Sonic CD has the spin dash.

Only 1 doesn't have it.

SuperDeadite · 04/07/2011, 08:39 PM

Of course it came out much later, but Saturn Sonic Jam adds a spin dash
into Sonic 1. Only version that has it.

SNKNostalgia · 04/23/2011, 01:42 PM

I actually borrowed a friends genesis to play games like Bloodlines, Contra Hardcorps, Phantasy Star and Shining Force in '94. I didn't get my own system until '95. At the time I liked Bloodlines since the only other current game I played was IV on the SNES. I agree that the graphics could have been better but the game had a unique dark feel to it. Seems Konami did this style with quite a bit of their games for the Genesis in '94. Hard Corps, Snatcher for Sega CD and even Rocket Night had this look and feel to it a bit. Of course the latter two put in a little more color, but this was just Konami's style with the Genesis in those days. I do prefer Rondo and III over all the others though.

DragonmasterDan · 05/27/2011, 06:25 PM

So I'm digging this topic out again, I beat Bloodlines for the first time today. It's a great game, there's fantastic visual effects in this game for the Genny, it's really a game that pushes the systems limits far, it retains that Castlevania challenge and visual style. I don't see why people are ripping on this game, it's excellent!

Bernie · 05/27/2011, 07:13 PM

Quote from: DragonmasterDan on 05/27/2011, 06:25 PMSo I'm digging this topic out again, I beat Bloodlines for the first time today. It's a great game, there's fantastic visual effects in this game for the Genny, it's really a game that pushes the systems limits far, it retains that Castlevania challenge and visual style. I don't see why people are ripping on this game, it's excellent!

I agree! Loved the game.

blueraven · 05/28/2011, 12:02 AM

Quote from: ZetaWhy?

Because they Don't have Dracula X yet.

Bernie · 05/28/2011, 04:38 AM

Quote from: blueraven on 05/28/2011, 12:02 AM
Quote from: ZetaWhy?
Because they Don't have Dracula X yet.

I have Dracula X, and still love Bloodlines. Guess I just really like the Castlevania series..

PunkCryborg · 05/28/2011, 10:13 AM

I just played Bloodlines for the first time the other night at a friends house. It was pretty fun and challenging and it's style and sound really give it that dark Sega Genesis feel.

Emerald Rocker · 05/28/2011, 08:53 PM

I was going to answer the topic's original question, but SuperDeadite stole my answer and posted it on the first page four months ago.

DirkFunk · 06/02/2011, 07:38 PM

I like it.

I feel it really was one of the few games (Konami also did this with Hard Corps) from a 3rd party company to really push the Genesis.

The strong suit of the Genesis is speed. Therefore, spazzy gameplay. But I quite enjoy it.